Minty Posted 7 November, 2011 Share Posted 7 November, 2011 I think most people know about it now (Latest story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-15623499) Clearly our thoughts are with the families of those who've lost their lives, and others affected by the crash, and whilst I recognise that the Police have a job to do to investigate the full extent of what happened, I can't help but be concerned by the increasing notion and portrayal that a smoke bank was in some way the *cause* of the crash. I have no doubt that it probably did contribute to the poor driving conditions and that, like fog, it will have impaired visibility. But with great respect to those who died and were injured, surely, ultimately, it is down to those driving past at the time to adjust their driving to the conditions they face - i.e. increase distance between vehicles, reduce speed, and take more care? The *cause* of the crash was probably one or several vehicles not doing this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickn Posted 7 November, 2011 Share Posted 7 November, 2011 I think most people know about it now (Latest story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-15623499) Clearly our thoughts are with the families of those who've lost their lives, and others affected by the crash, and whilst I recognise that the Police have a job to do to investigate the full extent of what happened, I can't help but be concerned by the increasing notion and portrayal that a smoke bank was in some way the *cause* of the crash. I have no doubt that it probably did contribute to the poor driving conditions and that, like fog, it will have impaired visibility. But with great respect to those who died and were injured, surely, ultimately, it is down to those driving past at the time to adjust their driving to the conditions they face - i.e. increase distance between vehicles, reduce speed, and take more care? The *cause* of the crash was probably one or several vehicles not doing this... Totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattio Posted 7 November, 2011 Share Posted 7 November, 2011 According to reports it was pretty instantaneous, but we will see. I just hope the Rugby club doesn't get the blame, its not their fault if there aren't procedures for having displays near to motorways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint.tom.clancy Posted 7 November, 2011 Share Posted 7 November, 2011 Agreed. Think the firework display is being used as a bit of a scapegoat. I know i'd definitely slow right down and put the fog lights on if i found myself in a similair situation - I cant help but think they must have been going to fast and too close to one another if they couldn't stop in time. Very sad story though, I just hope the emotions of the whole event don't pour into blaming the rugby club - not sure it's right to blame them for the possibly careless driving of those involved, even thought it may have been a contributing factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 7 November, 2011 Share Posted 7 November, 2011 There is a very good article on the Guardian at the moment about how when it comes to road deaths, we essentially turn a blind eye and treat it as the cost of doing business. Excerpt: Imagine that a train or plane crash in Somerset had caused "a massive fireball", seven deaths and more than 50 injuries. Inquiries would be launched, new regulations demanded, and aircraft grounded or train drivers suspended. After the Hatfield crash in 2000, which killed four passengers, the UK rail network was brought almost to a standstill for a month, with speed restrictions imposed while track was replaced. Yet after the horrific M5 crash on Friday night, involving more than 30 vehicles, we shall express our condolences to the victims then shrug our shoulders and attribute the carnage to bad luck and bad weather. Our motorways are among the safest in Europe, at least in part because they are among the most congested, and road deaths overall have been falling for 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 7 November, 2011 Share Posted 7 November, 2011 It was foggy anyway and and with any thick smog could have made visibility almost zero. If one lorry had jackknifed and everyone behind had slowed down to even 40 there would have been serious consequences. I heard 4 of the people who died were all in the same car, either they were in the wrong place at the wrong time or the car was travelling way too fast. I also wonder if the cause of the crash was as a result of a car/lorry being hit by a firework Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 7 November, 2011 Share Posted 7 November, 2011 I agree with everything the OP posted, however I just listened to one of the survivors on the radio & she said the fog/smoke was instantaneous, saying that the lights of the car in front suddenly disappeared, all of a sudden there was a collision. It sounds pretty horrific and a situation that any of us could find ourselves in. My condolences go out to those bereaved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 7 November, 2011 Share Posted 7 November, 2011 I agree with everything the OP posted, however I just listened to one of the survivors on the radio & she said the fog/smoke was instantaneous, saying that the lights of the car in front suddenly disappeared, all of a sudden there was a collision. It sounds pretty horrific and a situation that any of us could find ourselves in. My condolences go out to those bereaved. That's really the scariest thing about it, and something I've often considered when stuck in an accident-related jam on the M6. A couple of minutes earlier, and it could have been me and mine, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 7 November, 2011 Share Posted 7 November, 2011 I think most people know about it now (Latest story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-15623499) Clearly our thoughts are with the families of those who've lost their lives, and others affected by the crash, and whilst I recognise that the Police have a job to do to investigate the full extent of what happened, I can't help but be concerned by the increasing notion and portrayal that a smoke bank was in some way the *cause* of the crash. I have no doubt that it probably did contribute to the poor driving conditions and that, like fog, it will have impaired visibility. But with great respect to those who died and were injured, surely, ultimately, it is down to those driving past at the time to adjust their driving to the conditions they face - i.e. increase distance between vehicles, reduce speed, and take more care? The *cause* of the crash was probably one or several vehicles not doing this... If there was 'normal' fog I'd agree with you Minty, but the reports talk of a really sudden bank of fog/smoke. If the atmospheric conditions are such as to be 'ripe' for fog, a little smoke can have a really dramatic effect, as the particles give the water vapour something to form around. A lot of smoke from a big firework display could have a really dramatic effect. That's not to say I'd blame the rugby club as such, assuming they went through usual procedures. I presume to run a big display for the public you need some sort of licence or permission from your local council, or maybe the police in this case because near a highway? There is certainly HSE guidance available that implies that. So unless they went ahead recklesly, someone assessed the risk as low. He or she must be ****ting bricks at this moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 November, 2011 Share Posted 7 November, 2011 When visibility drops to 'almost zero' it's human instinct to slam on the anchors in panic. The 'correct' thing to do is to gradually reduce speed but it is almost impossible for the human mind to act in what will seem a counter-intuitive way at the time. It's the fact that people instinctively slowed down (sharply) that would have been the primary, if not root, cause of this tragic accident. The amount of people that panic and slam on their brakes in relatively thick (but less severe) fog amazes me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 7 November, 2011 Share Posted 7 November, 2011 Even at 30mph dense smoke from a Bonfire would be passed through very quickly. That said driving 40,000 miles a year you can see someone in a car slamming on the brakes, then a lorry who needs loads of braking distance coming up behind them Jack-knifing as a result of slamming its brakes tying to avoid a collision. Then the car driving on totally oblivious to the carnage going on behind them..... The mileage I drive I see these happy drivers tootling along in their steel bubbles totally unaware of their surroundings: accidents waiting to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 7 November, 2011 Share Posted 7 November, 2011 What I can't understand is, if it was foggy, why have a fireworks display? And It can't have been a coincidence, the fireworks were only about 100m from the pile-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 7 November, 2011 Share Posted 7 November, 2011 It can't have been a coincidence, the fireworks were only about 100m from the pile-up. Impeccable logic. Thank you Mr Kant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 7 November, 2011 Share Posted 7 November, 2011 Just to add into the mix, I have been to many fireworks displays and the smoke does not get that thick. I think they are looking at the wrong thing to blame....really a fireworks display?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 7 November, 2011 Share Posted 7 November, 2011 That's really the scariest thing about it, and something I've often considered when stuck in an accident-related jam on the M6. A couple of minutes earlier, and it could have been me and mine, etc. Yep. I was driving up the A303 once near Ilminster, a deer ran across the dual carriageway and I managed to swerve and avoid it. The car behind me wasnt as lucky, and we heard later two people had been killed in the subsequent collisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 7 November, 2011 Share Posted 7 November, 2011 This would not have happened near an airport, someone has made a grave error of judgeent. I just hpe that said person is not hounded, he or she will be mortified if there is an investigation that lands any blame on their doorstep. Accident, 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 8 November, 2011 Share Posted 8 November, 2011 Just to add into the mix, I have been to many fireworks displays and the smoke does not get that thick. I think they are looking at the wrong thing to blame....really a fireworks display?? As others have said, I think it's something to do with the way that the smoke particles give the moisture in the air somewhere to nucleate thus causing a sudden dense smog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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