The Kraken Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 (edited) Because of the may they handled the Millwall & the last P*mpey game perhaps ??? Any fool could see that letting all fans out together would cause trouble. Keep the away fans in for 15 mins .... job done. I dont mind being kept in for an extra 30 mins if it meant done of the hassle of the 'bubble'. Again you need to look at it in context. Yes, I agree that was a mistake and holdback should have been used. But that is still no guarantee of success, and the Pompey games have proved that by Saints fans having to run a gauntlet of missiles and rocks on the walk back to the station, after being held back. Travelling fans are already massively inconvenienced by police trying to keep them safe by utilising escorts to the ground from the station. Hundreds didn't get in to the last Fratton game until halfway through the first half and beyond. When the Skates came to us it was the same, hundreds of them kept by ToysRus for ages (some for a couple of hours or more) until they could be escorted to the ground, again after kick off. I have problems with various aspects of the bubble trip, but it's not as if the police haven't tried other things before getting to this. I still don't think we're quite at a last resort yet, but lets not kid ourselves that it's the police at fault for where we are. Edited 1 November, 2011 by The Kraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 Personally I'm not that bothered, if I get a ticket I was planning going by coach anyway. I can see however what a massive inconvenience it os for people who don't live locally. HOWEVER, I really hope for their own sake Hampshire Constabulary get this right. I would imagine that by enforcing this they have a duty of care to protect the travelling fans. If any coaches do get attacked, and anyone gets hurt, injurylawyers4youdotcom are going to have a fecking field day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 Travelling fans are already massively inconvenienced by police trying to keep them safe by utilising escorts to the ground from the station. Hundreds didn't get in to the last Fratton game until halfway through the first half and beyond. Perhaps the police shouldn't have held the train at Southampton Central for nearly an hour then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsash saint Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 Quoting this article, a report on a recent Football Supporters Federation meeting in Portsmouth: I'm willing to wager that the moment "bubbling" is challenged through the courts, it'll cease to be a viable option for the police. So it appears that 'bubbling' would not stand up in a court of law ...... anyone on here want to challenge it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 So it appears that 'bubbling' would not stand up in a court of law ...... anyone on here want to challenge it ? Sadly my pockets aren't particularly deep and I don't qualify for legal aid, otherwise I'd be all over it like a rash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 Perhaps the police shouldn't have held the train at Southampton Central for nearly an hour then? Perhaps they shouldn't. Then again, there could have been a perfectly valid reason why they did so, I really don't know. Has anyone ever sought and received an explanation for it? Genuine question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 Perhaps they shouldn't. Then again, there could have been a perfectly valid reason why they did so, I really don't know. Has anyone ever sought and received an explanation for it? Genuine question. From what I remember (given that it was 6 years ago), the excuse given at the time was that they wanted to time our arrival so we got in the ground as close to kick-off as possible. Having ****ed it up ridiculously in 2004 when most of us travelling by train didn't get in the ground until half an hour into the game, they made it slightly better in 2005 by making sure we only missed the first ten minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 Because of the may they handled the Millwall & the last P*mpey game perhaps ??? Any fool could see that letting all fans out together would cause trouble. Keep the away fans in for 15 mins .... job done. I dont mind being kept in for an extra 30 mins if it meant done of the hassle of the 'bubble'. So why not blame those who can't just walk away from trouble....it's easy enough to do it takes a conscience decision to kick off. It's not the police who decide to cause trouble with oppostion fans. They could have just played the game behind closed doors and saved themselves a load of trouble at least this way people get to see the game....which is supposed to be the most important thing isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 This. I will read the rest later. Nothing like a Frank's cousin post to compliment my bedtime mug of drinking chocolate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 From what I remember (given that it was 6 years ago), the excuse given at the time was that they wanted to time our arrival so we got in the ground as close to kick-off as possible. Having ****ed it up ridiculously in 2004 when most of us travelling by train didn't get in the ground until half an hour into the game, they made it slightly better in 2005 by making sure we only missed the first ten minutes. Then that's a bit of a c*ck up, yes. But say the train hadn't been held and allowed onwards, fans would still have had to wait at the other end before all Saints fans arrived before the escort to the ground. They're not just going to let fans wander off on immediate arrival at the station, that would be complete mayhem. Anyway, I digress. I've previously stated (and stand by it) that I think the bubble procedure has been implemented too quickly, that lessons from previous years haven't properly been learnt, and that other much less restrictive measures could have been implemented instead of this. I'm not entirely sure what they are mind, but this seems too draconian and ill-thought out to me with regards to just how restrictive the full logistics of it are. That said, I find it unfair to lay the blame solely at the feet of the police, it's far too easy and inaccurate a traget for why we're where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 Sadly my pockets aren't particularly deep and I don't qualify for legal aid, otherwise I'd be all over it like a rash. Steve I will sound out my son in laws cousin who works as a legal secratary for well known firm around the top of London Road. But my thoights are that if this was challenged by the time all the papers were drawn up ect the game would have been and gone and Saints would be another 3 points better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100%Red&White Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 they made it slightly better in 2005 by making sure we only missed the first ten minutes. Speak for yourself, we didn't get in for another 10-15 minutes after that. Best thing that happened that day in hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knellster Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 I appreciate that this match is governed by the Football League rather than the FA, but you may recall many years ago that the FA refused to accept an allocation of tickets for the away game in Turkey. As part of a fans' group we understood their concerns (it was just after the two Leeds fans were stabbed) and suggested that they accept an allocation, but only issue tickets to people who were travelling on the official charter flights. Their response was that it was illegal to impose such conditions on the sale of a ticket, so I am at a loss to understand how it's ok to impose these conditions on us for this game (or maybe the FA were lying?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 I fully expect to be in that sh*thole by 11am. They have totally ruined what should be the best away day of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbattigger Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 I have problems with various aspects of the bubble trip, but it's not as if the police haven't tried other things before getting to this. I still don't think we're quite at a last resort yet, but lets not kid ourselves that it's the police at fault for where we are. That point seems to be escaping many but it's spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 That point seems to be escaping many but it's spot on. Nor is it my fault. As a completely law-abiding citizen I take great objection to be considered as a potential trouble-maker. For over half a century I have been making my own way to football grounds all over the country without a moment's problem yet for this one the police want to wrap me in a bubble and set me up as a target to be attacked. I remember my last visit to FP when after being held behind I walked out to be met by a robocop saying over and over again "we... are... going... to... Fratton Park Station" which was no good to me as I was parked a mile away from the ground. When I told him that I was going to make my own way back he looked at me in disbelief and said "you're making your own way are you? Well good luck, sir" and left me to it. I never met a moment's hostility because I was anonymous once I had walked 50 yards from the ground. If I had stayed with the rest I would have been a target for hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 Does anyone remember going to the Wolves game by coach when we beat them 0-6 a few years ago? We all go off the coach in the car park next to molineux and the police herded us straight into the ground. Had to waste two hours drinking expensive beer caged up like we had the plague. Not allowed into the town. So it is hardly new. I did ask one of the police sergeants under what law could they stop free men from having free movement in their own country and he gave me some bull**** about if I didn't like it I could always spend the game in a cell. but you did not have to go by coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 it seems to me that those "supporting the bubble" have no intention on actually going to the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbag Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 After arriving at Southampton Central at 9am for the last game at Fratton (on the advice of the police in the echo) I was then a tad annoyed to finally arrive in the ground half an hour after kick off after experiencing deliberate delaying tactics by the police (South West trains also cancelled a train). I wrote to the echo to voice my opinion of the Police handling of the delay and was honoured with a reply from the chief of police for Hampshire who told me the delay was entirely due to the cancelled train and that he and his men had done a wonderful job and only five arrests had been made. He didn't feel it necessary to try to explain why a 45 minute journey to Fratton had in fact taken over 3 hours and resulted in me and hundreds of others missing a fair bit of the game. To be honest the bubble sounds as if it will be no worse than this experience was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 What if a saints fan has a family emergancy and needs to leave the stadium? Would they be allowed to leave the ground to get a taxi/train or whatever. Or would they be forced to wait until the coaches depart after the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 What if a saints fan has a family emergancy and needs to leave the stadium? Would they be allowed to leave the ground to get a taxi/train or whatever. Or would they be forced to wait until the coaches depart after the game? Good point. I think anyone in that predicament should expect the police to taxi them. The police have afterall deprived them of their human right to freedom of movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 From what I remember (given that it was 6 years ago), the excuse given at the time was that they wanted to time our arrival so we got in the ground as close to kick-off as possible. Having ****ed it up ridiculously in 2004 when most of us travelling by train didn't get in the ground until half an hour into the game, they made it slightly better in 2005 by making sure we only missed the first ten minutes. I didn't mind missing that dross, it was more the hail stones I objected to, but no one to complain to about that ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 I fully expect to be in that sh*thole by 11am. They have totally ruined what should be the best away day of the season. I hadn't even planned on leaving Waterloo at that point - ruined this game, but as has already been said, this is a very clever tactic by the police as they have succeeded in putting a vast majority of the 'lads' from even applying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 I hadn't even planned on leaving Waterloo at that point - ruined this game, but as has already been said, this is a very clever tactic by the police as they have succeeded in putting a vast majority of the 'lads' from even applying. Aswell as anyone who will find it too inconvenient/too expensive to travel to the ticket office to pick up the bus ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 Aswell as anyone who will find it too inconvenient/too expensive to travel to the ticket office to pick up the bus ticket. Well that's not true is it. At the moment tickets are only on sale to season ticket holders and as such they will be at SMS for the Blackpool game so they are not having to make a special trip at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 http://www.awaysupporters.co.uk/portsmouth Ok own up ....whose handy work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 Well that's not true is it. At the moment tickets are only on sale to season ticket holders and as such they will be at SMS for the Blackpool game so they are not having to make a special trip at all. yep, i'm on about if and when non ST holders get a chance. There will be 10 days max to pick up the bus ticket and the t/o will be closed on the day of the game. It's going to be a real pain and an unnecessary expense just before christmas. If I gave a f/ck about global warming I could also go all environmental and talk about all the nasty emisions my dirty diesel will emit into the atmosphere with 50 quids worth of fuel being used to make the trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 http://www.awaysupporters.co.uk/portsmouth Ok own up ....whose handy work That is all the work of everyones favourtie internet fattie and Russell Grant lookalike Romsey Stu. I kid you not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 yep, i'm on about if and when non ST holders get a chance. There will be 10 days max to pick up the bus ticket and the t/o will be closed on the day of the game. It's going to be a real pain and an unnecessary expense just before christmas. If I gave a f/ck about global warming I could also go all environmental and talk about all the nasty emisions my dirty diesel will emit into the atmosphere with 50 quids worth of fuel being used to make the trip. I understand that but, as it stands, that is not the case. As it stands, season ticket holders will be at SMS anyway so won't have to make any sort of special trip. Still 'kin nuts that they won't post them out though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 I understand that but, as it stands, that is not the case. As it stands, season ticket holders will be at SMS anyway so won't have to make any sort of special trip. Still 'kin nuts that they won't post them out though. It will be the case though because Pompey tickets always go to general sale, and even with our good form, having to jump through hoops to jump through more hoops will ensure that the hype is just that and we'll see anyone wants a ticket able to get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 1 November, 2011 Share Posted 1 November, 2011 will fans be prevented from making their own way home after the game? I recall quite a few lads attempting to leave at half time last time round. Would that be permitted or would fans be held in the ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 2 November, 2011 Share Posted 2 November, 2011 If we are being charged £1 per call we are being royally ripped off and should use another agency -snip- That makes a charge of 75p to cover the transaction realistic..Now explain the other £2.25 If you really think £1 is a rip off, I'd like to buy things off you (you clearly don't know what you are talking about) As an example (US, but principles and scale are the same): "We define fully loaded cost-per-call as including direct, indirect, and management labor; benefits, incentive pay, training, recruitment, third-party call center services, correspondence costs, telecommunications, and occupancy. To better understand the cost per call, we reviewed our proprietary benchmarking database, looking at 18 large companies with call volumes ranging from 900,000 to more than 9 million calls annually. * Here are the findings: The direct labor cost ranges from $1.11 to $3.29 for a 3-to-4–minute direct consumer call. * When we add in indirect labor, the cost-per-call increases to a range of $1.39 to $4.75 per call. * When we add in occupancy, benefits, and telecommunications, the fully loaded costs range between $2.70 to $5.60 per call" " " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 2 November, 2011 Share Posted 2 November, 2011 (you clearly don't know what you are talking about) If you're going to be arrogant enough to throw that accusation around then I'd suggest you need a lot more evidence than some random US figures plucked out of your arse as a comparison. Only an idiot would claim a transaction fee for posting out tickets as opposed to collecting in person is unfair. But if you can present some accurate figures as to why the costs incurred for telephone and internet transactions total £3 whereas on-site sales total £0, we may have a starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 2 November, 2011 Share Posted 2 November, 2011 If you're going to be arrogant enough to throw that accusation around then I'd suggest you need a lot more evidence than some random US figures plucked out of your arse as a comparison. Only an idiot would claim a transaction fee for posting out tickets as opposed to collecting in person is unfair. But if you can present some accurate figures as to why the costs incurred for telephone and internet transactions total £3 whereas on-site sales total £0, we may have a starting point. It's not idiotic, it's simple economics. Saints run a ticket office with a smallish staff that ticksover throughout the year. Some core staff (david luker equivalents, plus a skeleton staff) plus a a number of temps/part timers increased for matchdays etc. Then there are around 50 match events per year which have big peaks of activity. It doesn't make sense for Saints to maintain a full scale telesales operation (and the fixed costs associated with it), so they outsource it. My suggestion was that cost (understimate), £1, which I was told was being 'ripped offed'. My evidence above from a 5 minute google plus the fact I've worked on setting up some smaller scale callcentre contracts (albeit mostly for outbound) says otherwise. I can't provide you with the exact numbers for Saints, or prove if Nasty Nicolas is taking a % from the £2.50 as profit, but I suspect (if they are) it is small. I just think people are being naive if they think that the only costs are a stamp and an envelope. My argument, way back before the three post limit bit me, is that the ticket tax IS clearly for a service received and it is reasonable and fair. (it's fully hypothecated - nice big word for 3 am - unlike the rest of the ticket, which we don't know what goes where, or what extra comes from elsewhere (including ML's legacy)). Either way this thread is talking at cross purposes now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 2 November, 2011 Share Posted 2 November, 2011 was told last night by someone well connected with travel club, that we are not even getting the regular coach company,instead the club have hired a fleet of double decked buses(hard seats and all)and that the club will be providing different stewards than those who normally operate on travel club coaches. i assume this is because of parking issues at fratton(75 on a bus 50 on a coach ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarehamRed Posted 2 November, 2011 Share Posted 2 November, 2011 Incidentally, I had a "tweet" from Solent saying that tickets for home fans (yes, both of them) are now on general sale to people already on the database. Just in case I'm not successful in the ballot, anyone got a skate mate?? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambosa75 Posted 2 November, 2011 Share Posted 2 November, 2011 This is my biggest gripe with the whole thing. I can get myself to and from any game without trouble or risking my kids safety. What I can't guarantee is whether my coach will be one of the ones that is bricked and whether me and my daughter will be next to a window that comes through. I would be interested in the legal aspect of by the fact they are forcing me to travel this way, that they are indeed responsible for my welffare. I certainly think this is an excellent point. Say, for example, Pompey start attacking these coaches smashing the windows and causing injuries to Saints fans, presumably the police would be held accountable and be open to all sorts of compensation claims given the fact they have given fans no choice but to use this mode of transport? I really think more needs to be made about the point Gemmel has risen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemel Saint Posted 2 November, 2011 Share Posted 2 November, 2011 ....anyone got a skate mate?? ;-) just want to point out... but surely 'skate' and 'mate' should not be used together in the same sentence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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