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Jimmy Savile

sperm_john

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Then you're either too young to remember or have forgotten where women stood in society in the 1970s.

 

There was a lot of accepted gender inequality even as recently as then. It was only in the '70s it was made a legal requirement for women to paid the same as men, universities could legally ban women from enrolling just because they were women, the sex discrimination act didn't even exist until 1975 and women couldn't even raise a court order against violent male partners until 1976.

 

Most establishments were completely dominated by males and and if such an allegation was raised against a male star like Savile, not only wouldn't the women be taken seriously, I wouldn't mind betting they risked losing their job as well. When it came to gender equality the 70s and 80s were a completely different world to now. Ask Ann Widdecombe what obstacles she had to overcome when getting into local politics in the '70s and you'll understand why she felt so sick when a lot of the 'Blair babes' got fast-tracked 20 years later.

 

Anyway the Savile rumours have been around for a very long time, and right now it isn't just 1 or 2 people coming forward to earn a quick buck. . .

 

That hasn't relevant. They had from the 70s up until last week to come out with these accusations but they did nothing. Shameful

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pap

pap

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That hasn't relevant. They had from the 70s up until last week to come out with these accusations but they did nothing. Shameful

 

You are continually ignoring the fact that people did try to come forward and it never went anywhere. You're also ignoring the fact that the investigation into Savile began a year ago. It appears that the testimony from the five women on the ITV show has encouraged others to speak out. One of the women, Carole Wells, said she spoke out because she didn't want people not to believe the women's stories. I would not consider her motives shameful.

 

I think you've come to accept that Savile is looking increasingly guilty. There's just too much evidence. The only thing that appears to be shameful at this point is the extent of Savile's alleged abuse.

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pap

pap

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Is this a joke? Guy was disgusting. Who gives a **** what he did at charity when you consider what he did to young girls. Christ. I will assume you have not heard any of this.

 

Maybe he hadn't when he started this thread back in 2011.

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Dig Dig

Dig Dig

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You are continually ignoring the fact that people did try to come forward and it never went anywhere. You're also ignoring the fact that the investigation into Savile began a year ago. It appears that the testimony from the five women on the ITV show has encouraged others to speak out. One of the women, Carole Wells, said she spoke out because she didn't want people not to believe the women's stories. I would not consider her motives shameful.

 

I think you've come to accept that Savile is looking increasingly guilty. There's just too much evidence. The only thing that appears to be shameful at this point is the extent of Savile's alleged abuse.

 

The other shameful thing at this point is the instant derogatory comments thrown at the alledged victims by Hypo and the like about the timing of their revelations which in the grand scheme of things is irrelevant really. What is relevant is how someone in his position was able to systematically abuse young and vulnerable children for so long that the truth only came out after his death. There is evidence that victims have come forward previously, whilst he was alive but nothing was pursued. Hardly much of an invite for other victims to come out, not even considering the stigma and shame that the victims feel after these events.

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Bearsy

Bearsy

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There was a thing in the paper bout him and Gary Glitter and Freddie Starr and I was thinking... they all look like wrong 'uns! How is that, do you think? Am I just projecting cos I already know they is wrong 'uns, or is the paper purposely picking pictures where they is looking like wrong 'uns, or is it just that wrong 'uns look like wrong 'uns!

 

I'm going to be on the look out for wrong 'uns in my everyday business. Possibly my talent for spotting wrong 'uns could be of some use to police.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

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Problem is two fold - on the one hand we have alleged victims who understandably ony feel comfortable comming forward after he died - If true these crimes do leave psychological scars - and its not surprizing at all that victims wait so long to come forward, especially if teh abuse happen during a time in which they would never have been taken seriously...

 

... but there is also Bletchs point that he is no longer around to respond to the accusations. Yes it does look increasingly likely that he was guilty, but we still have a system of justice that is base don being abl eto answer your accusers rightly or wrongly.... and we cant let the fact that he was starnge and wierd influence this.

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GAS

GAS

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Posted
Then you're either too young to remember or have forgotten where women stood in society in the 1970s.

 

There was a lot of accepted gender inequality even as recently as then. It was only in the '70s it was made a legal requirement for women to paid the same as men, universities could legally ban women from enrolling just because they were women, the sex discrimination act didn't even exist until 1975 and women couldn't even raise a court order against violent male partners until 1976.

 

Most establishments were completely dominated by males and and if such an allegation was raised against a male star like Savile, not only wouldn't the women be taken seriously, I wouldn't mind betting they risked losing their job as well. When it came to gender equality the 70s and 80s were a completely different world to now. Ask Ann Widdecombe what obstacles she had to overcome when getting into local politics in the '70s and you'll understand why she felt so sick when a lot of the 'Blair babes' got fast-tracked 20 years later.

 

Anyway the Savile rumours have been around for a very long time, and right now it isn't just 1 or 2 people coming forward to earn a quick buck. . .

Great post. The victims have moved on and are living their life's, to start bringing up a wicked past must be traumatic. There must come a time when one action starts a reaction and others feel obligated to tell the truth and relive the past. RIP my ars* I hope the fu*** has eternal damnation.
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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

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I've only now just read this thread from the beginning. Interesting to watch the story evolve, arguments and opinions change.

 

Many have said Saville cannot defend himself, and a higher power is doing that now.

 

But to me this story now is no longer about him, this is about so many more people.

 

It's almost like Watergate. The original crime (of burglary in that case) paled into insignificance when the entire Cover-Up came to light.

 

Reading today that BBC Executives conducted an "enquiry" into allegations back in the 70's starts to build a trail of complicitness that looks like it will continue to expand and will cause damage to many institutions and probably legends as well.

 

So much collateral damage will hurt so many sacred institutions.

 

The allegations of harm that Saville seems to have caused to individuals are appalling and have ruined lives.

 

The mess around this, the revelations about the culture, and the harm to instituions and other historical figures could harm a great deal more as well as damage the "Moralising Position" that the UK takes on many Global Issues.

 

Those who turned a blind eye will now possibly have their lives ruined and if true they should be brought to task with the full force of the law.

 

This looks like it will get a lot worse and now the entire World is looking in and frowning at Britain (again)

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Dibden Purlieu Saint

Dibden Purlieu Saint

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Interesting...

 

Apparently, this was actually recorded during the last series of "Have I Got

News For You" when Jimmy Saville was a guest on Paul Merton's team.

Incredibly, it didn't make our screens. (It seems that Mr. Merton doesn't

like Mr. Saville very much)

 

Out-take 3:09'36

During the headline round:

DEAYTON: You used to be a wrestler didn't you?

SAVILLE: I still am.

DEAYTON: Are you?

SAVILLE: I'm feared in every girls' school in the country.

(Audience laugh)

DEAYTON: Yeah, I've heard about that.

SAVILLE: What have you heard?

DEAYTON: I've...

MERTON: Something about a **** with a rancid, pus-filled cock.

(Huge audience laugh; Awkward pause)

SAVILLE: I advise you to wash your mouth out, my friend...

MERTON: That's what she had to do! (Audience laughs)

HISLOP: Weren't you leaving money in phone boxes or something?

(Saville glares at him) Or have I got completely the wrong end of the...

SAVILLE: (To Deayton, heavily) The question you asked was about wrestling.

DEAYTON: Yes. And then you mentioned girls' schools. I don't know whe...

SAVILLE: Well I understood this was a comedy programme. I realise now how wrong I was. (Audience laugh)

DEAYTON: So were you a professional wrestler?

SAVILLE: Yes I was.

DEAYTON: (To audience) Glad we got that cleared up.(Pulls face; audience giggles)

HISLOP: Feared by every girls' school in the country...

SAVILLE: That's right.

MERTON: Due to having a rancid, pus-filled cock.(Huge audience laugh)

DEAYTON: Erm...

HISLOP: You're on top form tonight, Paul...

SAVILLE: (Strangely) I'm...this is not what I...

FLOOR MANAGER: (OOV) OK, do you...(inaudible section)...shall we, for pick-ups...

MERTON: I'm terribly sorry. I don't know what came over me.

SAVILLE: A pus-filled cock, I imagine. (Shocked audience laugh)

MERTON: Oh, it's nice to see you joining in. We'd been waiting for you, you sad senile old ****ter. (Audience appears to do double-take)

DEAYTON: I think we...d-d-you you want to apologise to our guest, Paul?

MERTON: Sorry, I do apologise. Sir senile old ****ter, is what I meant to say.

(Audience laugh; pause) Sir senile old ****ter...who ****s minors.

(Audience unrest)

HISLOP: Sorry, I'm just looking at our lawyer again. (Waves) Hello!

(Audience laughs)

DEAYTON: Shall we get back on course with this, or sha...

SAVILLE: I do **** miners, that's quite correct. I have always done so. They can do the most wonderful things with cigars. The coal...

MERTON: What, they stick them up your senile, pus-filled arse?

(Audience laughs)

FLOOR MANAGER: (OOV): Come on...I'm getting an ear-bashing here. It's...

MERTON: Oh they want to continue. Sorry, I'll contain myself. Carry on...

DEAYTON: Right (Pause) You used to be a professional wrestler didn't you?

(Huge audience laugh)

SAVILLE: (Calmly) I did.

DEAYTON: You didn't have a nickname or anything?

SAVILLE: Yes - 'Loser'. (Audience laughs)

___________________________________

Out-take 4: 21'20

Following a discussion about caravans:

DEAYTON: Last month, Roger Moore sold his luxury caravan in Malta. Asked by the...

MERTON: I visited your caravan the other week, Jimmy.

SAVILLE: Did you really?

MERTON: Oh yes. Interesting what you can find, if you have a bit of a poke.

(Audience laugh)

HISLOP: He just told you, it was twelve years ago...

SAVILLE: No, I lived in it for twelve years.

MERTON: And ****ed twelve year olds. (Audience laugh)

DEAYTON: Here we go again...I'll be backstage if anyone wants me.

MERTON: (Indicating Saville) That's what you said to the kids on your show, wasn't it?

(Audience laugh)

SAVILLE: No, they never did want me.

HISLOP: Not even Sarah Cornley?

SAVILLE: She was an exception.

DEAYTON: Who's Sarah Cornley?

SAVILLE: Sarah Cornley is...

HISLOP: About fifteen grand in damages, wasn't she?

(Uncertain audience laugh)

SAVILLE: That's right.

HISLOP: So if I was going to mention that you threatened to break her arm if she said anything...

SAVILLE: You'd be very wrong. (Pause) I said I'd break both her arms.

(Audience unease)

MERTON: ****ing hell. I mean, you're just sitting there, all shell suit and cigar wearing those ****ing...I don't know what they are.

SAVILLE: Chrome-plated SC-700 sun-visors, these are. Sent to me by...

MERTON: We don't give a ****. Ladies and gentlemen, Sir James Saville OBE. Jim has fixed it for me to have my arms broken. Meet this depressing old ****ed up **** of a ****er on television who's riddled with cancer and ****ing pubic lice.

HISLOP: (To lawyer again) Hello! (Audience laughs)

MERTON: Christ, I mean ha ha, big ****ing joke - the ****ing lawyers are involved, tee hee. It doesn't change anything.

DEAYTON: (Visibly out of character) Do you wanna stop, or...?

MERTON: No I don't ****ing want to stop. It's all ****! You'll expect a comedy walkout in a minute, won't you? I mean, big bloody joke - I'm going to quote Shakespeare in a minute, how ****ing out of character. And Ian knows about football - oh my ****ing sides.

SAVILLE: You've never ****ed anyone in your life, boy.

MERTON: Oh **** off...

FLOOR MANAGER: (OOV) ...About five minutes, just to...(Phil Davey enters)

PHIL DAVEY: OK, well top that as they say. You're looking troubled by that, aren't you mate? I tell you, I came back from Amsterdam recently...

RECORDING PLACED ON STAND-BY; CUTS BACK TO CLOSE-UP OF DEAYTON

AWAITING HIS CUE

DEAYTON: OK. Second time lucky. (Pause) Last month, Roger Moore sold his luxury caravan in Malta. Asked by the New York Times about his relaxed acting style...

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2213621/Claire-McAlpine-A-15-year-old-killed-leaving-diary-naming-DJs-abusers-Disturbing-questions-John-Peel-So-starts-WERE-involved.html

 

I'm beginning to wonder how much more sad and distressing this can become - it seems that everyday more stories, each more sordid than the last, are revealed.

- Mike , London, United Kingdom, 05/10/2012 23:53

 

Reading the John Peel section of that article not much else to say really

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sperm_john

sperm_john

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well just discovered this thread again lol, obviously I started it the day he died with the story rolling on BBC about him being good for charitys and his wacky tv shows etc, but now having heard all of this I take back my 'RIP etc' ..he was a weird man

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Suomi Saint

Suomi Saint

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Posted

All very sad indeed. This brings back memories when an acquaintance of mine back in 2004 told me that there was going to be a big paedophile scandal involving a huge number of celebrities. She gave me a number of names - she had a journalist friend at the Mail - and because she was a bit of a fantasist I dismissed it. Later, she said that publication was blocked because of a number of injunctions. Anyway, 2 of them have now been outed (not the usual suspects like JS and GG either). If the rest have been involved then this will be the scandal of the century. To me, it looks like it's payback time from Murdoch. It will be interesting to see whether the investigation goes any further. The Establishment either had knowledge of this or were directly involved. These are the people who look down on the ordinary hard working folk of this country. Disgusting.

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Jonnyboy

Jonnyboy

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Posted

Go

All very sad indeed. This brings back memories when an acquaintance of mine back in 2004 told me that there was going to be a big paedophile scandal involving a huge number of celebrities. She gave me a number of names - she had a journalist friend at the Mail - and because she was a bit of a fantasist I dismissed it. Later, she said that publication was blocked because of a number of injunctions. Anyway, 2 of them have now been outed (not the usual suspects like JS and GG either). If the rest have been involved then this will be the scandal of the century. To me, it looks like it's payback time from Murdoch. It will be interesting to see whether the investigation goes any further. The Establishment either had knowledge of this or were directly involved. These are the people who look down on the ordinary hard working folk of this country. Disgusting.

 

So who are the two who are already outed?

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pap

pap

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This is getting darker by the day. Peel's account of not asking for ID provides an insight into the mindset at the time. I'd be interested in how much Liz Kershaw is going to spill. It is pretty clear she is in a position to name names.

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

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Posted
This really is looking horrendous. I'm particularly amazed/appalled by the john peel quotes in the mail article, I used to listen to him in the late seventies and dont remember anything like that, are they direct quotes?

 

Going through the process of Marrying a 15 year old girl in the US seems pretty damming

 

The source is quoted as being old Interviews

 

But as a young man, he worked in Texas as a local radio station DJ and self-appointed ‘Beatles expert’.

 

When he was older, he recalled some of the ‘perks’ of the job in several newspaper interviews in the Seventies and Eighties.

Girls, some as young as 13, he said, used to queue up outside his studio to offer him sexual favours. ‘Well, of course, I didn’t ask for ID,’ he said.

‘All they wanted me to do was to abuse them sexually which, of course I was only too happy to do.

‘It was the glamour of the job . . . but frustratingly, American girls of that period — as they do now, actually — had this strange notion of virginity as a tangible thing which you surrendered to your husband on your wedding night.

‘So they would do anything but s*** you. They’d give you a b*** *** before they’d s*** you.’

Even now, and allowing for Peel’s famously sardonic humour, it is troubling that those words came from Radio 4’s cuddly champion of middle-class values. One of the girls who queued up outside his studio was a girl called Shirley Anne Milburn. She and Peel were married in Texas on September 29, 1965.

Peel was 26 years old. Shirley Anne was just 15

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2213621/Claire-McAlpine-A-15-year-old-killed-leaving-diary-naming-DJs-abusers-Disturbing-questions-John-Peel-So-starts-WERE-involved.html#ixzz28ambdTRf

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?p=61519189

 

A forum discussion in more detail

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

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http://gulfnews.com/news/world/scotland-yard-investigates-alleged-bbc-sex-ring-1.1085936

 

About 40 women have stepped forward to allege they were raped or molested.........

 

.......At least six police forces have now received allegations of abuse, and the Metropolitan Police has been chosen to co-ordinate inquiries.....

 

.....It emerged the presenter — who died last year aged 84 — was interviewed under caution by Surrey Police in 2007, but no charges were brought. He had allegedly preyed on vulnerable under-age girls at now-defunct Duncroft School in Surrey.........

 

All cut & pasted by local paper from the Daily Snail

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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Without wishing to upset anyone, I think there are two different "stories" here.

 

In my mind there is a big difference in being a bona fide paedo praying on girls or boys who are clearly underage and taking advantage of your status and banging groupies without checking their age. Richard Manuael used to send the road crew out to take polaroids of the girls queuing up so he could decide which ones to allow into the dressing room. I'm sure he didn't also require the roadies to check id's as well. I've no doubt that nearly every single pop star must have used and absued a girl under the age of consent without realising. It appears nowadays if you sleep with a girl who is 15 and 11months old, you're a peado whether you knew her age or not. Glitter was clearly a peado, the jurys out with saville, but if you're going to start calling Peel a peado, then it's going to add a whole load of 60's and 70's rock and roll stars into that bag.

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
Without wishing to upset anyone, I think there are two different "stories" here.

 

In my mind there is a big difference in being a bona fide paedo praying on girls or boys who are clearly underage and taking advantage of your status and banging groupies without checking their age. Richard Manuael used to send the road crew out to take polaroids of the girls queuing up so he could decide which ones to allow into the dressing room. I'm sure he didn't also require the roadies to check id's as well. I've no doubt that nearly every single pop star must have used and absued a girl under the age of consent without realising. It appears nowadays if you sleep with a girl who is 15 and 11months old, you're a peado whether you knew her age or not. Glitter was clearly a peado, the jurys out with saville, but if you're going to start calling Peel a peado, then it's going to add a whole load of 60's and 70's rock and roll stars into that bag.

 

Think you are right on how you put that (and the articles do follow a similar line - cannot judge what happened in another time by the standards of today.

 

Think the shock and horror of the story will be how widespread it was, and more problematic - how much covering up went on.

 

It's going to be a slap in the face to the image of the UK expressing moral outrage at events elsewhere in the world.

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ooh it's a corner

ooh it's a corner

Posted
Posted
Without wishing to upset anyone, I think there are two different "stories" here.

 

In my mind there is a big difference in being a bona fide paedo praying on girls or boys who are clearly underage and taking advantage of your status and banging groupies without checking their age. Richard Manuael used to send the road crew out to take polaroids of the girls queuing up so he could decide which ones to allow into the dressing room. I'm sure he didn't also require the roadies to check id's as well. I've no doubt that nearly every single pop star must have used and absued a girl under the age of consent without realising. It appears nowadays if you sleep with a girl who is 15 and 11months old, you're a peado whether you knew her age or not. Glitter was clearly a peado, the jurys out with saville, but if you're going to start calling Peel a peado, then it's going to add a whole load of 60's and 70's rock and roll stars into that bag.

 

Trouble is you can only see the world through the laws as they would be applied today.

 

So, if you were convicted of stealing a sheep last week, you would be a convicted sheep-thief and I would expect you to receive a penalty for that. But not be hanged from the neck until dead.

 

As it is a statutory rape offence for a grown man to have sex with an under 16 year old, regardless as to who has instigated what, I cannot comment for what the law was in the 1970's, but today, he would be accused of rape.

 

The most sickening thing, as others have mentioned, is the apparent collusion of others within the BBC.

 

It's one thing turning a blind eye to a man's drink problem, or his gambling habit, but turning a blind eye to this is inexcusable.

 

It's going to rumble and rumble this one......

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted

The Peel story seems completely different to the Saville one.

 

If slags queue up to offer sexual favours, then give sexual favours, it's their own fault regardless of if they are a bit under-age. I remember at school girls doing all sorts way before they were old enough, it's what teenage girls do.

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pap

pap

Posted
Posted
The Peel story seems completely different to the Saville one.

 

If slags queue up to offer sexual favours, then give sexual favours, it's their own fault regardless of if they are a bit under-age. I remember at school girls doing all sorts way before they were old enough, it's what teenage girls do.

 

Aye. That's true.

 

However, you can't really make that statement without saying what grown men are supposed to do in that situation.

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Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted
The Peel story seems completely different to the Saville one.

 

If slags queue up to offer sexual favours, then give sexual favours, it's their own fault regardless of if they are a bit under-age. I remember at school girls doing all sorts way before they were old enough, it's what teenage girls do.

 

I take it you haven't got daughters of your own, you disgusting piece of dirt.

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scotty

scotty

Posted
Posted
Dibden wasn't the Paul Merton script proved to be a hoax ?

 

No idea? Seems a strange thing to fake...

 

Think I mentioned this earlier in the thread. It was a hoax, but one that had a clear agenda behind it. It was written by Chris Morrisses 'The Day Today' team, and released uncredited without ever being recorded or broadcast. The idea as I understand it was to publicise Savile's kiddy-fiddling, and effectively invite him to sue them. He didn't.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

Posted
Posted
The Peel story seems completely different to the Saville one.

 

If slags queue up to offer sexual favours, then give sexual favours, it's their own fault regardless of if they are a bit under-age. I remember at school girls doing all sorts way before they were old enough, it's what teenage girls do.

 

Yes at school with lads the same or similar age - part of growing up. Grown men should know better and not take advantage - Thankfully for most of us our tastes mature in line with age... pretty stupid comment to make mate - 15 year old fumbling around with 16 year old boyfriend is one thing. 20+ man fumbling around with 15 year old is out of order, and sickening really.

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
Yes at school with lads the same or similar age - part of growing up. Grown men should know better and not take advantage - Thankfully for most of us our tastes mature in line with age... pretty stupid comment to make mate - 15 year old fumbling around with 16 year old boyfriend is one thing. 20+ man fumbling around with 15 year old is out of order' date=' and sickening really.[/quote']

 

Agree it's wrong, but I think more questions should be asked as to why teenage girls would want to queue up to offer sexual favours.

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scotty

scotty

Posted
Posted
Agree it's wrong, but I think more questions should be asked as to why teenage girls would want to queue up to offer sexual favours.

 

Assuming they were old enough to know what they were offering, and why. Which they clearly weren't.

 

This behaviour was and is indefensible. I dont understand why anybody is trying to defend it.

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
Assuming they were old enough to know what they were offering, and why. Which they clearly weren't.

 

This behaviour was and is indefensible. I dont understand why anybody is trying to defend it.

 

From what Peel said it sounds like they knew what they were doing. Doesn't make it right but it's a bit different to what Saville is alleged to have done if what he says is how it happened.

 

Before anyone else wets themselves, I still think it's wrong.

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