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Jimmy Savile

sperm_john

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Viking Warrior

Viking Warrior

Posted
Posted

clearly saville is a paedo. but I im still concerned about the way the police are using the method of trawling to justify their evidence

 

This is back in 2000. Re Dave Jones

 

David Jones was a victim of ‘trawling’ – a new form of police investigation which has evolved only in the last ten years.

 

Much credit for bringing about this transformation in public understanding should go to BBC journalists David Rose and Gary Horne and their Panorama film ‘In the name of the children’.

 

In the film, which was transmitted on the eve of the Jones trial, and in an accompanying article which was published in this newspaper, Rose reported on the case of Roy Shuttleworth, a care worker who is serving ten years in prison for crimes he could not have committed. Shuttleworth too was the victim of a trawling operation.

 

If the public knew what was going on they would be appalled,’ said Merseyside solicitor Chris Saltrese at the beginning of last week. He is right. Except that he was speaking before the collapse of the Jones trial on Tuesday. By Wednesday morning the public did know what was going on. Or at least they were a lot better informed.

 

This is crucial. One reason why the current witch-hunt has spread so rapidly and so silently is that all democracies depend ultimately on journalists to safeguard their essential liberties. Yet in this case journalists bear the main responsibility for creating a moral panic around care homes and, until very recently, for keeping both politicians and the public in the dark about what has really been happening.

 

Now that the media spotlight on David Jones has at last illuminated this darkness, it is time for the government to act. Until now Home Office ministers have responded to complaints about trawling by saying that operational matters are for chief constables to decide.

 

In such operations police officers deliberately seek out former residents of care homes and invite them to make complaints. Some of these complaints are true and have helped convict social workers who have indeed betrayed the trust placed in them. But there are clear indications that many of the allegations are false. There is also compelling evidence, some of it captured on film by Panorama, that one of the main motives for fabricating allegations of physical and sexual abuse is money.

 

Also look what happened to Mathew Kelly

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alpine_saint

alpine_saint

Posted
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I am appalled at this unravelling saga.

 

As more and more and MORE accusations are made, the question to be asked is why no-one made a complaint and no charges were brought. He was a f**king DJ, FFS, not heir-to-the-throne (no accusation against the PoW intended, I just could not think of a better example of someone almost "untouchable" in our society)

The whole of British society feels tainted. And I feel sick at the thought that there are children out there now suffering through such blind eye-turning.

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

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I am appalled at this unravelling saga.

 

As more and more and MORE accusations are made, the question to be asked is why no-one made a complaint and no charges were brought. He was a f**king DJ, FFS, not heir-to-the-throne (no accusation against the PoW intended, I just could not think of a better example of someone almost "untouchable" in our society)

The whole of British society feels tainted. And I feel sick at the thought that there are children out there now suffering through such blind eye-turning.

 

Fact is Alps, what is more horrific but in some ways less surprising is the way that this is escalating, is it now starting to link Care Home abuse as well as Politicians.

 

To an outsider it almost starts to look as if this behaviour was (is) endemic in certain sections of UK society.

 

One of the press articles mentioned Tip of an Iceberg

The whole of British society feels tainted.
could yet turn out to be the most prophetic words you have ever uttered on this forum
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saintbletch

saintbletch

Posted
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I guess this is the place to collect all the general allegations of paedophilia that followed Savile's outing.

 

The Guardian today names Tory peer Lord McAlpine as the man accused of raping a boy in the North Wales care home scandal.

 

Although they say that they believe he is wrongly accused and that instead it was another member of the McAlpine family since deceased.

 

An interesting sub-plot is the editorial tone that The Guardian is taking towards the BBC. It is plainly suggesting that the recent Newsnight edition (on the care homes) went off half-cocked and without doing thorough research. Which, oddly enough, also happens to be the defence the Newsnight Editor cited for not moving ahead with the original allegations against Savile.

 

Perhaps we should simply divest the powers of the courts to Philip Schofield? It only takes him 3 minutes on Google to out paedophiles.

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Viking Warrior

Viking Warrior

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Posted

Just listened to radio Scotland they had Peter Tarchel on getting his comments about Cameron's remarks about witch hunts and gay folk . Well done Peter . But for the BBC they are clearly trying to make Cameron out as anti gay . I suspect the list that schofield had was about former dead folk who were known to be gay and allegedly abused children .

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saintbletch

saintbletch

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Just listened to radio Scotland they had Peter Tarchel on getting his comments about Cameron's remarks about witch hunts and gay folk . Well done Peter . But for the BBC they are clearly trying to make Cameron out as anti gay . I suspect the list that schofield had was about former dead folk who were known to be gay and allegedly abused children .

 

Yes I heard Tatchell on BBC Radio 5 Live this morning. It was odd because it seemed to me that Tatchell was actually defending the PM. I can't remember what he said now but it left me with the impression that Tatchell had, at first, thought the PM was making a link between paedophilia and being gay, but then he realised that the PM was defending gay people and telling others not to spread rumours because someone had tried/tries to hide their sexual orientation. Odd behaviour for the attack-dog Tatchell.

 

But I did find the PM's comments odd - didn't you?

 

Either he seemed to be conflating paedophilia and being gay, which is stupid and he's not stupid so it was that, or he had already reached a conclusion about the people on Schofield's list (Not paedophiles, simply gay) ahead of any enquiries that are in process. That is wrong. He simply shouldn't have mentioned the gay angle at all IMO. He should have just made Schofield out to be the non-journalist he is. What were the editors of the programme thinking? Ratings I guess.

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

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The Police EVEN took a set of dental prints from Saville to test for a match-up on bite marks on victims?

 

How the hell could the BBC heirarchy believe Newsnight did NOT have "enough" evidence, there seems to be a hell of a lot of other "implications" out in the world to help corroborate some of the first accusers.

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saintbletch

saintbletch

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McAlpine has now issued a personal, and detailed, denial - effectively outing himself as the object of the allegations.

 

He lists a load of credible reasons why it can't be him.

 

Much as I'm sure Jimmy Savile did many times.

 

And that's the problem with allegations of this sort - smoke without fire, or just twitter-generated smoke?

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Viking Warrior

Viking Warrior

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Bletch I think the stuff on the various social media was suggesting that a number of names being bandied about re child abuse were were gay allegedly. I have seen as you no doubt names on here who were openly gay and have been accused of the abuse.

 

No doubt the list that schofield had showed similar names that are bandied about on here.

 

Welive in a sad society and if people are guilty then let the letter of law deal with it . not social media forums . Too many innocent people have had their lives ruined by malicious and false allegations. Just look at school playground antics which fuelled bullying in schools.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

Distressing...

 

http://www.lbc.co.uk/listen-the-most-shocking-call-youll-hear-this-year-62650

 

LISTEN: The Most Shocking Call Of The Year

 

Friday 9th November 2012

Sarah in East Dulwich called James O'Brien to tell him her story - and it left LBC listeners in tears.

As James discussed the possible cover up of a paedophile ring, Sarah's horrific past was brought right back to her.

She revealed she was raped from the age of just 12 weeks and was the victim of a ritualistic abuse throughout her time in residential care. She reported it and no one did anything.

The result is the most shocking account you will hear this year.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
McAlpine has now issued a personal, and detailed, denial - effectively outing himself as the object of the allegations.

 

He lists a load of credible reasons why it can't be him.

 

Much as I'm sure Jimmy Savile did many times.

 

And that's the problem with allegations of this sort - smoke without fire, or just twitter-generated smoke?

 

 

@BBCBreaking: Alleged victim Steve Messham apologises to Lord McAlpine for "mistaken identity" in historical Wales child abuse case http://t.co/Ufxy0GAm

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Viking Warrior

Viking Warrior

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@BBCBreaking: Alleged victim Steve Messham apologises to Lord McAlpine for "mistaken identity" in historical Wales child abuse case http://t.co/Ufxy0GAm

 

Sorry to say it but has Mr Messham scored an own goal? re his apology for mistaken identity? Will he be a creditable withness for any pending trial in the future. Better to say nothing to the press let the police deal with all the allegations

 

Sky are not reporting Mr Messhams apology but instead are now reporting this individauls claims

 

http://news.sky.com/story/1009280/care-home-abuse-victim-tells-of-sex-parties.

 

Its is very very sad that youngsters have been abused but let the police investigate not the media. PS has Schofield been suspended yet?

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pap

pap

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Your being sarcastic pap ? Either that or you have a wry sense of humour . I think the BBC are shutting bricks for releasing his name . Good old news night

 

Question based on hypothetical situation:-

 

A senior male member of the establishment is accused of a crime with a big social stigma and is actually guilty.

 

What are his options if he wants to avoid public ire and jail?

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aintforever

aintforever

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@BBCBreaking: Alleged victim Steve Messham apologises to Lord McAlpine for "mistaken identity" in historical Wales child abuse case http://t.co/Ufxy0GAm

 

Sorry to say it but has Mr Messham scored an own goal? re his apology for mistaken identity? Will he be a creditable withness for any pending trial in the future. Better to say nothing to the press let the police deal with all the allegations

 

Sky are not reporting Mr Messhams apology but instead are now reporting this individauls claims

 

http://news.sky.com/story/1009280/care-home-abuse-victim-tells-of-sex-parties.

 

Its is very very sad that youngsters have been abused but let the police investigate not the media. PS has Schofield been suspended yet?

 

"In a statement on Friday evening, Mr Messham said: "After seeing a picture in the past hour of the individual concerned, this [is] not the person I identified by photograph presented to me by the police in the early 1990s, who told me the man in the photograph was Lord McAlpine."

 

That has to be complete nonsense, he has had decade's to find out if it was McAlpine who abused him, he could find McAlpines picture anywhere. Now all of a sudden it's not him!

 

Are we seriously expected to believe this?

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sandwichsaint

sandwichsaint

Posted
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Conspiracy hat on. Pay-off?

 

My thought exactly, this has completely taken the wind out of the momentum that was building to get to the bottom of this. He (the witness) now looks a right cv.nt and so by implication do any others still complaining '(the victims) they're all mistaken/thick/deluded/unreliable' etc etc.

 

Those alleged to be involved suddenly look whiter than white, matey gets his comp/payout and we all move on. Cheap at half the price.

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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Posted
Just seen that on the BBC. How inept can Newsnight be made to look?

 

Why didn't someone show him a photo?

 

BBC pull program showing one of their stars as serial child abuser yet jump in feet first when a Thatcher era Tory is accused,what a surprise.

 

Shameful journalism and we are told it's the envy of the world. Even a year 10 student would have checked photo against name, I guess the sight of a Tory in the headlights scrambled their leftie brains. Wow, the chance to have a pop at Thatcher and make amends for the Saville halls up, it's a win/win.

 

Heads must roll

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OldNick

OldNick

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BBC pull program showing one of their stars as serial child abuser yet jump in feet first when a Thatcher era Tory is accused,what a surprise.

 

Shameful journalism and we are told it's the envy of the world. Even a year 10 student would have checked photo against name, I guess the sight of a Tory in the headlights scrambled their leftie brains. Wow, the chance to have a pop at Thatcher and make amends for the Saville halls up, it's a win/win.

 

Heads must roll

i saw the new director general on the news this morning. How on earth can somebody so inept when being pressed for questions can be at the top of that organisation??
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Viking Warrior

Viking Warrior

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I have nver been fond of the BBC in recent years , (see previous threads about the BBC) seems my suspicions about their own agendas are now being confirmed.

 

BBC should reportthe news not create the news.

 

Sky are just as evil. The report that Messham had apologised for mistaken identity was only reported by sky some time aftermessham spoke. and all they could say was it is allegedly being reported that messham had made an apology .

 

Really Really shoddy journalism.

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JackFrost

JackFrost

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Conspiracy hat on. Pay-off?

 

Yep.

 

Having saw the newsnight report I recall that Messham wasn't pretty sure it was a top Tory, he was certain. McAlpine may well merely be a smokescreen to hide the ID of the real perpetrator but as someone who was in the police force for 30 years and worked with victims of abuse I've got no doubt Messham's been given a large sum that'll earn enough interest in a savings account to see he'll be ok for the rest of his life. In exchange he makes a public apology to the supposed victim of mistaken identity.

 

Either it's abuser pays off victim or abuser pays off victim, and McAlpine to handle the spotlight to hide the real perpetrator. I'm generally not a believer in conspiracy theories but after having spent 30 years in the police I've come across things more devious than this. Obviously apart from the individuals themselves no-one will ever know for sure the true situation but in my experience this case has got all the hallmarks of a classic bung.

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Saintandy666

Saintandy666

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Even though the BBC has monumentally cocked up over this one story(though they never named anyone on Newsnight, so the names must have come from another source , I'd still believe anything they broadcast over the likes of what is written in the Sun and the Daily Mail. No organisation can be perfect, and if anything this mistake is a product of the witch hunt against the BBC over the past few weeks.

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Barney Trubble

Barney Trubble

Posted
Posted
Its profoundly depressing. Anyone in the know realises the **** has been going on for years and it is being buried in a smokescreen of anti-media schitt stirring. Democracy my ass.

 

Spot on. It stinks but proving it is a totally different matter. We are dealing with very rich and powerful people, they have influence and have enough money to pay for the silence of those that could make a difference. There is no real democracy, only what they allow us to perceive as being democratic.

 

Most Brits are Sheeple, but the social conditioning takes place years before most people even know it. Britain is corrupt from top to bottom; has been since the days of yore.

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scotty

scotty

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Posted
Even though the BBC has monumentally cocked up over this one story(though they never named anyone on Newsnight, so the names must have come from another source , I'd still believe anything they broadcast over the likes of what is written in the Sun and the Daily Mail. No organisation can be perfect, and if anything this mistake is a product of the witch hunt against the BBC over the past few weeks.

 

+1.

 

And we dont know for sure whether or not they did cock up over the story, as jack frost points out above. The BBC were slayed for not running the newsnight report about Savile, while conveniently ignoring the simple fact that if there had been any way of proving that the rumours about him had been true, every newspaper in the country would have been racing after the story like salivating greyhounds after a rabbit for probably the top scoop and headline of the decade. They didnt. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time I checked, the BBC dont have a monopoly on investigative journalists in this country; the murdoch journos now whining about the BBC failing to expose Savile are the same ones that did precisely f*ck-all to expose him themselves. Pure opportunism.

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bridge too far

bridge too far

Posted
Posted
+1.

 

And we dont know for sure whether or not they did cock up over the story, as jack frost points out above. The BBC were slayed for not running the newsnight report about Savile, while conveniently ignoring the simple fact that if there had been any way of proving that the rumours about him had been true, every newspaper in the country would have been racing after the story like salivating greyhounds after a rabbit for probably the top scoop and headline of the decade. They didnt. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time I checked, the BBC dont have a monopoly on investigative journalists in this country; the murdoch journos now whining about the BBC failing to expose Savile are the same ones that did precisely f*ck-all to expose him themselves. Pure opportunism.

 

Absolutely

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Sergei Gotsmanov

Sergei Gotsmanov

Posted
Posted
+1.

 

And we dont know for sure whether or not they did cock up over the story, as jack frost points out above. The BBC were slayed for not running the newsnight report about Savile, while conveniently ignoring the simple fact that if there had been any way of proving that the rumours about him had been true, every newspaper in the country would have been racing after the story like salivating greyhounds after a rabbit for probably the top scoop and headline of the decade. They didnt. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time I checked, the BBC dont have a monopoly on investigative journalists in this country; the murdoch journos now whining about the BBC failing to expose Savile are the same ones that did precisely f*ck-all to expose him themselves. Pure opportunism.

 

If I had been poised to expose somebody as a paedophile I would have shown his accuser a photograph of the person whose reputation I was about to demolish

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andysstuff

andysstuff

Posted
Posted
If I had been poised to expose somebody as a paedophile I would have shown his accuser a photograph of the person whose reputation I was about to demolish

 

I struggle to believe that on this day and age that he hadn't managed to see an image of the bloke he believed had abused him.

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bridge too far

bridge too far

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Posted
Well they showed him a picture and he then admitted this was not the man who abused him

 

But originally, allegedly, when he first reported the abuse to the police, he identified his abuser from photographs the police showed him. It was the police who told him, at the time, that the person he'd identified was Lord McA. He continued to believe this until he saw a photograph of Lord McA and then realised the police had misinformed him.

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Sergei Gotsmanov

Sergei Gotsmanov

Posted
Posted
But originally, allegedly, when he first reported the abuse to the police, he identified his abuser from photographs the police showed him. It was the police who told him, at the time, that the person he'd identified was Lord McA. He continued to believe this until he saw a photograph of Lord McA and then realised the police had misinformed him.

 

So they took it on his word - somebody else clearly thought it was wise to show him a picture because that is how the story was found out. Poor journalism that exposed the political bias that underpins the BBC's reporting.

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dinger

dinger

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Can anyone seriously believe this is a case of mistaken identity? That a man who for 20 years has been trying to bring serious allegations of abuse against a senior political figure, has managed to live in total isolation from any pictures of that political figure? That, in this age of the internet and Google/Schofield searches, he has just now realised that he was accusing the wrong man? It just doesn't ring at all true. I've seen lots of pictures of McAlpine over the years, yet I've had absolutely no reason to go searching for them.

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pap

pap

Posted
Posted
Can anyone seriously believe this is a case of mistaken identity? That a man who for 20 years has been trying to bring serious allegations of abuse against a senior political figure, has managed to live in total isolation from any pictures of that political figure? That, in this age of the internet and Google/Schofield searches, he has just now realised that he was accusing the wrong man? It just doesn't ring at all true. I've seen lots of pictures of McAlpine over the years, yet I've had absolutely no reason to go searching for them.

 

Inclined to agree with you on this. The mistaken identity thing defies belief.

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