Jump to content

Ward-Prowse set for Debut

Saint-Armstrong

By Saint-Armstrong,
in The Saints

 Share

Recommended Posts

shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted (edited)

For all the talk about giving a youth chance, cant help think its an acknowledgment that our squad is pretty thin and not up to the cycle of tuesday, Saturday, tuesday football. Its not like we were itching to give youth a chance in earlier rounds, and against inferior opposition. Only Reeves has started; and when it came to giving youth a taste from the bench, NA consistently opted for experience.

 

The Reading game was a shock to the system, proof positive that we perhaps can't maintain the tempo and intensity we've set ourselves this season. With Boro coming up, even playing members in and around the matchday squad is not worth the risk -and I dont have a problem with that. So yes it will be nice to see Ward-Prowse debut but lets not kid ourselves that it was by design and maybe accept what it says about the squad and even our ability to compete.

Edited by shurlock
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sour Mash

Sour Mash

Posted
Posted
For all the talk about giving a youth chance, cant help think its an acknowledgment that our squad is pretty thin and not up to the cycle of tuesday, Saturday, tuesday football. Its not like we were itching to give youth a chance in earlier rounds, and against inferior opposition. Only Reeves has started; and when it came to giving youth a taste from the bench, NA consistently opted for experience.

 

The Reading game was a shock to the system, proof positive that we perhaps can't maintain the tempo and intensity we've set ourselves this season. With Boro coming up, even playing members in and around the matchday squad is not worth the risk -and I dont have a problem with that. So yes it will be nice to see Ward-Prowse debut but lets not kid ourselves that it was by design and maybe accept what it says about the squad and even our ability to compete.

Agreed - said this earlier in the thread (or might have been in the Palace build up one). Either the squad is struggling to keep up, highlighted by the Reading game or possibly the young lads have shone so much in the last couple of months since pre-season that they've gained NA's trust and earnt the opportunity to get a game. More likely the former than the latter though.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Benj

Benj

Posted
Posted
For all the talk about giving a youth chance, cant help think its an acknowledgment that our squad is pretty thin and not up to the cycle of tuesday, Saturday, tuesday football. Its not like we were itching to give youth a chance in earlier rounds, and against inferior opposition. Only Reeves has started; and when it came to giving youth a taste from the bench, NA consistently opted for experience.

 

The Reading game was a shock to the system, proof positive that we perhaps can't maintain the tempo and intensity we've set ourselves this season. With Boro coming up, even playing members in and around the matchday squad is not worth the risk -and I dont have a problem with that. So yes it will be nice to see Ward-Prowse debut but lets not kid ourselves that it was by design and maybe accept what it says about the squad and even our ability to compete.

I don't agree with this at all, we've played a second string team in every round of the Cup so far, as have the vast majority of Premiership/Championship sides. The League Cup is not a competition we should be pushing all our resources into win, we should be prioritising the league every time.

 

The League Cup is a great chance to give a run out to some fringe players, those lacking in fitness and those with something to prove, any progress in the competition is merely a bonus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
I don't agree with this at all, we've played a second string team in every round of the Cup so far, as have the vast majority of Premiership/Championship sides. The League Cup is not a competition we should be pushing all our resources into win, we should be prioritising the league every time.

 

The League Cup is a great chance to give a run out to some fringe players, those lacking in fitness and those with something to prove, any progress in the competition is merely a bonus.

 

Agree that we havent prioritised the cup and we've rested first team players -and I am perfectly happy with that. But whereas in previous rounds, a few first teamers would always feature (e.g. Guly) or players who had started on the bench the previous saturday be given a run out, I bet tonight's team is considerably weaker -notwithstanding the fact that we're up against a good side for a shot at the last 8. Just look at our midfield: in previous rounds, you could confidently expect two of Cork, Hammond, Morgan and Chappers to start - I wouldn't be surprised if only Morgan starts tonight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ericofarabia

ericofarabia

Posted
Posted
Agree that we havent prioritised the cup and we've rested first team players -and I am perfectly happy with that. But whereas in previous rounds, a few first teamers would always feature (e.g. Guly) or players who had started on the bench the previous saturday be given a run out, I bet tonight's team is considerably weaker -notwithstanding the fact that we're up against a good side for a shot at the last 8. Just look at our midfield: in previous rounds, you could confidently expect two of Cork, Hammond, Morgan and Chappers to start - I wouldn't be surprised if only Morgan starts tonight.

 

Well Hammond won't be starting, thats for certain!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Well Hammond won't be starting, thats for certain!!

 

If you think about it we could really really be struggling. If Fonte isn't fit we'll play Martin and Jos, on the bench we have as cover for central defence ?? I don't think we have anyone at all apart from the nebulous "development squad".So if Martin or Jos get a knock that would mean that we'd have to go with either a doubtful Fonte plus the survivor on Saturday or dig deep into the youth for a replacement.It probably won't happen that way fortunately for us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
stevegrant

stevegrant

Posted
Posted
If you think about it we could really really be struggling. If Fonte isn't fit we'll play Martin and Jos, on the bench we have as cover for central defence ?? I don't think we have anyone at all apart from the nebulous "development squad".So if Martin or Jos get a knock that would mean that we'd have to go with either a doubtful Fonte plus the survivor on Saturday or dig deep into the youth for a replacement.It probably won't happen that way fortunately for us.

Do we know for sure that Fonte was taken off on Saturday because of an injury or just because he'd been a bit ****?

 

My guess is that we'll have the big guns on the bench just in case we need something in the last 20 minutes or so. Lambert, Fonte, Guly and perhaps even Lallana there, it might even be beneficial for Lallana to get a 20-minute runout to ease him back into the side after his injury.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Do we know for sure that Fonte was taken off on Saturday because of an injury or just because he'd been a bit ****?

 

My guess is that we'll have the big guns on the bench just in case we need something in the last 20 minutes or so. Lambert, Fonte, Guly and perhaps even Lallana there, it might even be beneficial for Lallana to get a 20-minute runout to ease him back into the side after his injury.

 

NA said he was really feeling his hamstring,couldn't sprint and was at 70% of his ability.

May well be OK by next Saturday but may well not be 100% either.Lallana?? I'll believe he's fit again when I see him on the team sheet,; his injuries always seem to be long and drawn out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ericofarabia

ericofarabia

Posted
Posted
Do we know for sure that Fonte was taken off on Saturday because of an injury or just because he'd been a bit ****?

 

My guess is that we'll have the big guns on the bench just in case we need something in the last 20 minutes or so. Lambert, Fonte, Guly and perhaps even Lallana there, it might even be beneficial for Lallana to get a 20-minute runout to ease him back into the side after his injury.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/9323769.Frustrated_Fonte_looks_set_to_miss_Palace_reunion/

 

But could be an NC cover up job!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ericofarabia

ericofarabia

Posted
Posted
If you think about it we could really really be struggling. If Fonte isn't fit we'll play Martin and Jos, on the bench we have as cover for central defence ?? I don't think we have anyone at all apart from the nebulous "development squad".So if Martin or Jos get a knock that would mean that we'd have to go with either a doubtful Fonte plus the survivor on Saturday or dig deep into the youth for a replacement.It probably won't happen that way fortunately for us.

 

Possibly Jack Cork on bench as he can come in and cover a multitude of positions, maybe risk no keeper as well (actually scrap that as we can have 7 subs in this comp can't we?)

 

Any news on Holmes? Lala defo not going to be risked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Possibly Jack Cork on bench as he can come in and cover a multitude of positions, maybe risk no keeper as well (actually scrap that as we can have 7 subs in this comp can't we?)

 

Any news on Holmes? Lala defo not going to be risked.

 

I think we need to stop using Cork as a jack of all trades and let him concentrate on building up a midfield partnership with Morgan,they are the future of the club.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Minsk

Minsk

Posted
Posted
For all the talk about giving a youth chance, cant help think its an acknowledgment that our squad is pretty thin and not up to the cycle of tuesday, Saturday, tuesday football. Its not like we were itching to give youth a chance in earlier rounds, and against inferior opposition. Only Reeves has started; and when it came to giving youth a taste from the bench, NA consistently opted for experience.

 

The Reading game was a shock to the system, proof positive that we perhaps can't maintain the tempo and intensity we've set ourselves this season. With Boro coming up, even playing members in and around the matchday squad is not worth the risk -and I dont have a problem with that. So yes it will be nice to see Ward-Prowse debut but lets not kid ourselves that it was by design and maybe accept what it says about the squad and even our ability to compete.

 

I don't think it sows ow tin our squad is so much as indicates the number of injuries, knocks and suspensions.

 

if you discount the likes of Reeves, Dean, JWP and oter development players who have been given first team squad numbers we have 25 players; exactly the number a premiership team can use.

 

Davis

Bart

Fourpast

 

Frazer

Butters

 

Fonte

Seaborne

Jaidi

Jos

Martin

 

Fox

Harding

 

SDR

Lallana

Cork

Morgan

Hammond

Chappers

Holmes

Dickson

 

Lambert

Guly

Barnard

Connolly

Forte

 

From the above 25 for one reason or another tonight we are likely to be missing: Fox, Jaidi, Seaborne, Fonte, Lallana, Hammond, Holmes and Barnard; which leaves 17. It also makes sense to rest some of these/give some fringe players a match. Hence we give a few, more promising, youngsters a run out - which benefits them and us.

 

I do not think we should have a bigger squad; hence, I do not think our squad is too thin - just a bit stretched at the moment.

 

(And before anyone starts, no I am not saying we sould not sign new players in January - of course we should - there is always a requirement to buy better than you already have/replace those no longer good enough!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ericofarabia

ericofarabia

Posted
Posted
I think we need to stop using Cork as a jack of all trades and let him concentrate on building up a midfield partnership with Morgan,they are the future of the club.

 

Do we have the right to recall Pulis from Aldershot as emergency cover?

 

At least that'll give Man U a fighting chance tonight!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Do we have the right to recall Pulis from Aldershot as emergency cover?

 

At least that'll give Man U a fighting chance tonight!!

 

doubt it, he doesn't play for us any more so we have no more right to recall him than say Bale,Theo or Kenwyne Jones,which of course would be exceedingly handy if we could :p

Link to comment
Share on other sites
shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted

 

I do not think we should have a bigger squad; hence, I do not think our squad is too thin - just a bit stretched at the moment.

 

 

Of course, having a squad is one thing - be willing to throw fringe players into a big game and getting results with them is another. There was a v.interesting prematch interview the other day where NA said that teams that get promoted use on average 28-30 players over the course of the campaign and we had used 18-19 players to date, implying that we're rotating the squad well. The interviewer picked him up on the gap (of course still early days) forcing NA to acknowledge that our success was down to consistency more than anything else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Minsk

Minsk

Posted
Posted (edited)
Of course, having a squad is one thing - be willing to throw fringe players into a big game and getting results with them is another. There was a v.interesting prematch interview the other day where NA said that teams that get promoted use on average 28-30 players over the course of the campaign and we had used 18-19 players to date, implying that we're rotating the squad well. The interviewer picked him up on the gap (of course still early days) forcing NA to acknowledge that our success was down to consistency more than anything else.

 

28-30 = squad of 25 plus 3-5 development players: such as JWP, Reeves, Hoskins, Doble, Shaw

 

Obviously, I hope we never ave to play Fourpast, and I have doubts over seeing and Jaidi and Seaborne play again this season; Holmes I think has a lot of talent but always seems to be injured; Connolly is not getting any younger; doubts as to whther Forte is good enough; etc, etc - so yes there is a need to buy

 

How many players do you think we should have in our first team squad? I tink 2 for evey position plus an extra GK, CB and forward is about right - which is what we have - especially if you want to give the youngsters an occasional chance.

Edited by Minsk
removed a sarcastic sentence
Link to comment
Share on other sites
The9

The9

Posted
Posted

Makes sense for Ward-Prowse to step up with Hammond suspended, will be nice to know if he's got any chance of being up to standard before we run out of central midfielders through injury and suspension again like we did last year. I can see him being in the "Gobern Role" this season, though obviously only 5 subs limits his league opportunities even more than that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
28-30 = squad of 25 plus 3-5 development players: such as JWP, Reeves, Hoskins, Doble, Shaw

 

Obviously, I hope we never ave to play Fourpast, and I have doubts over seeing and Jaidi and Seaborne play again this season; Holmes I think has a lot of talent but always seems to be injured; Connolly is not getting any younger; doubts as to whther Forte is good enough; etc, etc - so yes there is a need to buy

 

How many players do you think we should have in our first team squad? 3 for every position? I tink 2 for evey position plus an extra GK, CB and forward is about right - especially if you want to give the youngsters an occasional chance.

 

I agree - the size of the squad is absolutely fine; rather the issue is strength in depth. Can you see all those players coming in, doing a job and getting us promoted? Obviously, you would hope that they wouldn't have to play at the same time in a big away game say; but who knows.

 

We've done OK without Lallana -better than expected but his absence has also exposed some of the gaps. As much as I am happy to sing Chaplow's praises, he's not a LM and we've lacked width, guile and delivery with him in the side. Indeed, Chaplow is not really the issue - its the 10+ players that don't make the match day 15/16. Ultimately, are they up to the quality to get us out of the league if history is right and promoted teams rely heavily on this particular layer of the squad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
The9

The9

Posted
Posted

I think given the tendency of central midfielders to be more combative and to pick up more suspensions that cover in that area should be deeper than just two per position - i.e. teams need two starters, two cover and another one just in case. Ward-Prowse is our fifth man behind Hammond, Cork, Schneiderlin and Chaplow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
I agree - the size of the squad is absolutely fine; rather the issue is strength in depth. Can you see all those players coming in, doing a job and getting us promoted? Obviously, you would hope that they wouldn't have to play at the same time in a big away game say; but who knows.

 

Forte is only going to get in the side if Lambert, Connolly and Guly/De Ridder is injured (even then Lallana might play up front instead) - how good are other teams fourth or fifth choice striker? I don't think he's as bad as people make out anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mowgli

Mowgli

Posted
Posted
I can see Cork and Morgan starting in midfield with Hammond and Chaplow starting on saturday.

Fonte is clearly a bit jaded so leave him out tonight ready for the weekend as well.

 

Really? Even though NA has officially announced Ward -Prowse will start?

 

I would go for Bart, Butterfield, Martin, Jos, Harding, Forte, Ward-Prowse. Cork, SDR, Guly, Barnard. Barnard is the only injury doubt i think. Would expect to see other youngsters on the bench - pick two or three from Sinclair, Racine, Shaw, Stephens, Dean and Reeves. Also have Dovey, Lambert, Chaplow and Schneiderlin on bench. I think we can have 7 subs tonight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
Forte is only going to get in the side if Lambert, Connolly and Guly/De Ridder is injured (even then Lallana might play up front instead) - how good are other teams fourth or fifth choice striker? I don't think he's as bad as people make out anyway.

 

Sure -Forte isn't terrible as a 4/5th choice striker; but neither would have I expected Connolly to be no.2 right now or have a front line made up of converted strikers.

 

Strength in depth is fundamentally about being able to introduce players without having to change the shape of the team. Yes we don't play with pace but build through a hold-up player like Lambert - who else could do his job -not just when he's injured; but when he's knackered (as appeared last Tuesday and Saturday). WHU have Carew and Cole. Arguably that's why we were linked to players like Sharp and JayRod.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
Sure -Forte isn't terrible as a 4/5th choice striker; but neither would have I expected Connolly to be no.2 right now or have a front line made up of converted strikers.

 

Strength in depth is fundamentally about being able to introduce players without having to change the shape of the team. Yes we don't play with pace but build through a hold-up player like Lambert - who else could do his job -not just when he's injured; but when he's knackered (as appeared last Tuesday and Saturday). WHU have Carew and Cole. Arguably that's why we were linked to players like Sharp and JayRod.

 

I would argue that Guly played the Lambert role quite well at times last season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
I would argue that Guly played the Lambert role quite well at times last season.

 

But Guly largely played with Lambert rather than Guly + somebody else. Guly prefers playing in the hole and he's not a lightweight; but can he win his headers, hold play up and do the things Lambert does?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
But Guly largely played with Lambert rather than Guly + somebody else. Guly prefers playing in the hole and he's not a lightweight; but can he win his headers, hold play up and do the things Lambert does?

 

I can definitely remember a few occasions where Guly played with Barnard, and yes - he held the ball up very well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sour Mash

Sour Mash

Posted
Posted
Sure -Forte isn't terrible as a 4/5th choice striker; but neither would have I expected Connolly to be no.2 right now or have a front line made up of converted strikers.

 

Strength in depth is fundamentally about being able to introduce players without having to change the shape of the team. Yes we don't play with pace but build through a hold-up player like Lambert - who else could do his job -not just when he's injured; but when he's knackered (as appeared last Tuesday and Saturday). WHU have Carew and Cole. Arguably that's why we were linked to players like Sharp and JayRod.

Exactly. I think it is pretty much without doubt that we went after a striker and a centre back before the transfer window closed, so NA and NC obviously agree that there was a need. We've done brilliantly to do as well as we have so far, but as the season progresses, a few knocks and tiredness are starting to take their toll.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...