TopGun Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 Alpine, you really are such a ****. Three people go to the effort of trying to genuinely explain things to you and you cant engage in any reasonable way. Its a waste of my time reading your posts. I wish I hadn't taken you off ignore. I'm not bothered. He's particularly unctious at the best of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 As pointed out Whitey in my previous post, wind can never be base load. But gas-fired power stations are cheap to build and run. The National Grid is getting ever smarter by connectivity. So wind and gas (even forgetting nuke) can be harmonised with ease. IMO (as I work in the exact area), people need to stop reading the nonsense talked about inefficiency of wind in the Daily Mail etc and wake up to the energy security issues we face as a nation. We need ever increasing energy so need a diverse portfolio of generation. Subsidies for new forms of low carbon energy such as wind are exactly right. Once that is sorted, subsidies should be paid to new gas-fired power stations that sit on stand by until needed. I can argue this until the cows come home. And I know I'm right as nobody else here has the same knowledge or expertise. Ooh, get her! You have to be very careful with statements like that. If it's not viable without a subsidy then it's not viable. That subsidy is just paying for conscience appeasement. And they're so damned ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 You're all f**king mental. Humanity will wipe itself out at some point anyway. That's going on to a T shirt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 If it's not viable without a subsidy then it's not viable. An interesting POV... I actually agree in some things, but in others I think it is necessary to encourage investment and growth in an emerging industry. Each subsidy needs to be judged independently IMO. It also begs the question why so many fossil fuel industries across the world receive subsidies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 If it's not viable without a subsidy then it's not viable. And they're so damned ugly. Not necessarily true. Its the overall cost of an energy plan which is important, not whether indivdual elements of a package need to be cross subsidised by other elements. Add in the reduction in imports and increases in local employment and you can have a compelling case. Also most wind farms will be offshore and you wont see them, generally thats where most of the wind is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 If it's not viable without a subsidy then it's not viable. How many other industries get subsidies and tax breaks ? How many 'economic development zones' exist only because these 'incentives' are in place ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 ....generally that's where most of the wind is. Excluding this thread of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 How many other industries get subsidies and tax breaks ? How many 'economic development zones' exist only because these 'incentives' are in place ? Not many, certainly not my business. It all depends on how many voters are involved, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 Nice to see someone tried to answer these points, from their "enlightened" perspective... I was working and busy. I don't spend my life on here... However, your point seems to be irrelevant to what we are talking about. We are talking about the effects of an enhanced Greenhouse Effect because of man made sources, not natural occurrence. Anyways, a volcanic eruption causes cooling because it pumps out a **** load of Sulphur Dioxide(SO2) which reacts with water vapour in the air to make H2SO4 or sulphuric acid which rapidly creates fine little particles that reflects the suns rays back into space causing cooling. I need to ask you a question before I reply again. Do you know that the Greenhouse Effect is fact or do you think that it has been made up by scientists with an agenda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 Whitey, you've found the most ugly shot you can of some older turbines in California The shot below is of Scout Moor Wind Farm, above Rochdale, north of Manchester. It provides enough average energy throughout the year to power 1/3 of Rochdale. How utterly hideous. Countryside ruined to pander to a few bonkers tree huggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 there is a big wind farm thing reet up north...cumbria area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 there is a big wind farm thing reet up north...cumbria area That's ok then, oop north is well out of the way. Just don't put any in Scotland, just in case. If they go independent we shall want our subsidies back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 Whitey, you've found the most ugly shot you can of some older turbines in California The shot below is of Scout Moor Wind Farm, above Rochdale, north of Manchester. It provides enough average energy throughout the year to power 1/3 of Rochdale. Honest, that was the first photo I found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 That's ok then, oop north is well out of the way. Just don't put any in Scotland, just in case. If they go independent we shall want our subsidies back. http://www.forewind.co.uk/about-forewind/background.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 http://www.forewind.co.uk/about-forewind/background.html I suppose forewind sounds better than backwind. Should be useful whilst it's working but the sea is a very harsh environment. And another thing... Why do they all rotate in the same direction? All these vortices are buggering up the conservation of angular momentum. Talking of which: http://vortexwindfunnel.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 How utterly hideous. Countryside ruined to pander to a few bonkers tree huggers. At least it produces electricity - unlike that main despoiler of countryside, the golf course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 (edited) I suppose forewind sounds better than backwind. Should be useful whilst it's working but the sea is a very harsh environment. And another thing... Why do they all rotate in the same direction? All these vortices are buggering up the conservation of angular momentum. Talking of which: http://vortexwindfunnel.com/ Wind generation of electricity is still a relatively new industry. Im certain the efficiency, reliability and weather resistance will all improve immensely as they scale up over the next 20 years. As a matter of interest what to you make / sell WG? As it happens I was in this 1821 windmill at the weekend. Its surprisngly sophisticated with its adjustable pitch sweeps (blades) and automatic mechanical turning into the wind. Nice flour too. http://www.jillwindmill.org.uk/ Edited 21 June, 2012 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 Wind generation of electricity is still a relatively new industry. Im certain the efficiency, reliability and weather resistance will all improve immensely as they scale up over the next 20 years. As a matter of interest what to you make / sell WG? Electronic programmable displays, and anything else that makes money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 Electronic programmable displays, and anything else that makes money. Aah. Manufacturing or importing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 Aah. Manufacturing or importing? Wash your keyboard! All designed, manufactured, assembled and tested here by me, and my colleagues. We also export signs, mainly to France, USA, Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 If it makes you happier, I am having quotes tomorrow for a rooftop solar system on my factory unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 (edited) If it makes you happier, I am having quotes tomorrow for a rooftop solar system on my factory unit. I hope you are getting a big grant for it / guaranteed tariff , it wont be economic otherwise! Not a big fan of solar pv for the UK, solar works okay for hot water though Edited 21 June, 2012 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 Wash your keyboard! All designed, manufactured, assembled and tested here by me, and my colleagues. We also export signs, mainly to France, USA, Australia My cheap chinese keyboard with half the letters missing after two months! Good stuff re manufacturing the timers. My first ever job interview was with Vero Electronics, lucky escape for both us, dont think I was cut out to be a traineee accountant there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 Wash your keyboard! All designed, manufactured, assembled and tested here by me, and my colleagues. We also export signs, mainly to France, USA, Australia At the risk of going off on a tangent then, can I ask if you either a) are Jayex Technologies, or b) what you think of Jayex Technologies if you aren't!? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 At the risk of going off on a tangent then, can I ask if you either a) are Jayex Technologies, or b) what you think of Jayex Technologies if you aren't!? :-) I know them very, very well and have done for nearly thirty years. The owner is an old friend of mine. Do I remember that you work in the health service? In which case I think I know where this is going! Give me a pm and I'll give you my phone number and we can have a chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 I hope you are getting a big grant for it / guaranteed tariff , it wont be economic otherwise! Not a big fan of solar pv for the UK, solar works okay for hot water though It depends on getting the FIT guaranteed before August. The advantage of an industrial unit is that we would be using the electricity whilst we are producing it. I use an average over the year of 50 units a day, 40/day in summer and 60/day in winter. I've just had a bill for 19 working days in April for around £450 and it scares the willies out of me. Historically the usage has stayed the same for at least 12 years but the cost is steadily rising. Let's see what the costs are and take it from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 My cheap chinese keyboard with half the letters missing after two months! Good stuff re manufacturing the timers. My first ever job interview was with Vero Electronics, lucky escape for both us, dont think I was cut out to be a traineee accountant there. Was that at Woodside Avenue? I used to buy from them and they arranged or my son to have some work experience when he was at school. Did you know that Vero was founded by Sir Geoffrey Verdon-Roe (hence the company name), son of Sir Alliott Verdon-Roe of Avro aircraft fame? Sir Alliott is buried in St. Andrews church graveyard at Hamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 21 July, 2012 Share Posted 21 July, 2012 Here's a really interesting article if you have a spare half an hour... http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/global-warmings-terrifying-new-math-20120719 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jul/24/greenland-ice-sheet-thaw-nasa?intcmp=122 The Greenland ice sheet melted at a faster rate this month than at any other time in recorded history, with virtually the entire ice sheet showing signs of thaw. The rapid melting over just four days was captured by three satellites. It has stunned and alarmed scientists, and deepened fears about the pace and future consequences of climate change. Climatologists Thomas Mote, at the University of Georgia, and Marco Tedesco, of the City University of New York, also confirmed the melt recorded by the satellites. However, scientists were still coming to grips with the shocking images on Tuesday. "I think it's fair to say that this is unprecedented," Jay Zwally, a glaciologist at Nasa's Goddard Space Flight Center, told the Guardian. The set of images released by Nasa on Tuesday show a rapid thaw between 8 July and 12 July. Within that four-day period, measurements from three satellites showed a swift expansion of the area of melting ice, from about 40% of the ice sheet surface to 97%. Zwally, who has made almost yearly trips to the Greenland ice sheet for more than three decades, said he had never seen such a rapid melt. About half of Greenland's surface ice sheet melts during a typical summer, but Zwally said he and other scientists had been recording an acceleration of that melting process over the last few decades. This year his team had to rebuild their camp, at Swiss Station, when the snow and ice supports melted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 I think the one thing this highlights is that there is a very real need to look at how we deal with what is coming. Whatever the opinions about how or why our climate is changing, surely we can all see the need to think about how we prepare and adapt for the kind of changes that our world is likely to see over the next 50 years, for our kids' sake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 I think the one thing this highlights is that there is a very real need to look at how we deal with what is coming. Whatever the opinions about how or why our climate is changing, surely we can all see the need to think about how we prepare and adapt for the kind of changes that our world is likely to see over the next 50 years, for our kids' sake? There are no votes in that type of thinking. All the public wants to hear is that "everythings alright, there is no climate crisis, and even if there was then it isn't man-made, and even if it was then its too late to do anything about it". That is the way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 There are no votes in that type of thinking. All the public wants to hear is that "everythings alright, there is no climate crisis, and even if there was then it isn't man-made, and even if it was then its too late to do anything about it". That is the way forward. The developed Norths position is that "we would do it but China needs to cap their emissions at a level we haven't been at since 1900. We 've got massively high emissions - but unless the developing world agree to not increase their to even a fraction of ours, we arent going to play". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 There are no votes in that type of thinking. Which, if that continues, is one of the main reasons why we're f*cked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 The developed Norths position is that "we would do it but China needs to cap their emissions at a level we haven't been at since 1900. We 've got massively high emissions - but unless the developing world agree to not increase their to even a fraction of ours, we arent going to play". That's not entirely accurate. Many western countries are already working hard towards their CO2 reduction targets, and China are slowly coming round as the environmental devastation caused by their economic boom becomes clear within their borders. The main problem in China is massive increase in consumerist attitudes in places such as Shanghai, as people have become addicted to the lavish, materialistic lifestyles that have become the norm there now, and this will make it very difficult for them to reverse the trends of the last 20-30 years. Any initiatives aimed at reducing emissions and creating sustainable development needs not just technological changes but drastic behavioural shifts as well. This requires involvement from the state, the private sector, civil society and the individual. If the whole world buries its collective head in the sand with the attitude of "Nobody else is bothering to do anything about it so why should I?" then we truly are f***ed. Whereas if everybody made some simple changes at the individual level then it will make the issue very difficult for the authorities to ignore, and the problem of the government failing to implement policy changes because it might affect their support at the polls would be seriously lessened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 There are no votes in that type of thinking. All the public wants to hear is that "everythings alright, there is no climate crisis, and even if there was then it isn't man-made, and even if it was then its too late to do anything about it". That is the way forward. or as bush, trousers or dune would say: George W. Bush: History? In history we'll all be dead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCholulaKid Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Global warming etc, - we'll adapt. It's what we're good at. Which is why overpopulation is the more pressing concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Global warming etc, - we'll adapt. It's what we're good at. Which is why overpopulation is the more pressing concern. We might very well have the technological ability to adapt, but the planet won't and other animals won't either. And when you start messing with ecosystems in a fast and aggressive way they start to break down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint George Posted 26 July, 2012 Share Posted 26 July, 2012 There ya go....Didn't think it would take to long before this thread reverted to yer typical alarmist scaremongering.....and it was going so well for a while. Just for you're information....This planet has been around for a fair few billion years and during that time, it's been a damned sight hotter and wayyyyy freaking colder than it is right now......and guess what?...yup...it's still here.....Until our Sun decides to give up the ghost, or produce a solar flare so big it blows our atmosphere into deep space, or we get hit by a gigantic asteroid, it always will be....Humans are insignificant compared with the force of nature and the forces that created the universe. Until the alarmist's quit taking some arbitrary temperature from 30 odd years ago and making that some kind of "normal" datum that all other temperatures, past, present and future should be judged, they're never going to be taken seriously. Relax peeps.....Nothing you can do to prevent the temperature/Climate changing on this planet. So loose the God complex and quit worrying......... "adapt and overcome"...It's the only way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 26 July, 2012 Share Posted 26 July, 2012 There ya go....Didn't think it would take to long before this thread reverted to yer typical alarmist scaremongering.....and it was going so well for a while. Just for you're information....This planet has been around for a fair few billion years and during that time, it's been a damned sight hotter and wayyyyy freaking colder than it is right now......and guess what?...yup...it's still here.....Until our Sun decides to give up the ghost, or produce a solar flare so big it blows our atmosphere into deep space, or we get hit by a gigantic asteroid, it always will be....Humans are insignificant compared with the force of nature and the forces that created the universe. Until the alarmist's quit taking some arbitrary temperature from 30 odd years ago and making that some kind of "normal" datum that all other temperatures, past, present and future should be judged, they're never going to be taken seriously. Relax peeps.....Nothing you can do to prevent the temperature/Climate changing on this planet. So loose the God complex and quit worrying......... "adapt and overcome"...It's the only way. Your usual well-referenced post, full of peer-reviewed evidence that you're not talking utter ******** again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted 26 July, 2012 Share Posted 26 July, 2012 There ya go....Didn't think it would take to long before this thread reverted to yer typical alarmist scaremongering.....and it was going so well for a while. Just for you're information....This planet has been around for a fair few billion years and during that time, it's been a damned sight hotter and wayyyyy freaking colder than it is right now......and guess what?...yup...it's still here.....Until our Sun decides to give up the ghost, or produce a solar flare so big it blows our atmosphere into deep space, or we get hit by a gigantic asteroid, it always will be....Humans are insignificant compared with the force of nature and the forces that created the universe. Until the alarmist's quit taking some arbitrary temperature from 30 odd years ago and making that some kind of "normal" datum that all other temperatures, past, present and future should be judged, they're never going to be taken seriously. Relax peeps.....Nothing you can do to prevent the temperature/Climate changing on this planet. So loose the God complex and quit worrying......... "adapt and overcome"...It's the only way. Sounds to me you've been in the US wayyyyy too freaking long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 26 July, 2012 Share Posted 26 July, 2012 There ya go....Didn't think it would take to long before this thread reverted to yer typical alarmist scaremongering.....and it was going so well for a while. Just for you're information....This planet has been around for a fair few billion years and during that time, it's been a damned sight hotter and wayyyyy freaking colder than it is right now......and guess what?...yup...it's still here.....Until our Sun decides to give up the ghost, or produce a solar flare so big it blows our atmosphere into deep space, or we get hit by a gigantic asteroid, it always will be....Humans are insignificant compared with the force of nature and the forces that created the universe. Until the alarmist's quit taking some arbitrary temperature from 30 odd years ago and making that some kind of "normal" datum that all other temperatures, past, present and future should be judged, they're never going to be taken seriously. Relax peeps.....Nothing you can do to prevent the temperature/Climate changing on this planet. So loose the God complex and quit worrying......... "adapt and overcome"...It's the only way. So how do you think the world will look to your grandchildren and great-grandchildren ? Do you think that the entire region between the tropics of cancer and capricorn will be turning to desert ? Do you think that the main food producing tracts will have become semi-arid ? Will the Greenland icecap have completely thawed and the Arctic Sea be completely open to cruise ships in summer ? Will there still be hydrocarbons to burn in inefficient combustion chambers driving rubber clad steel wheels ? How do we as a species 'adapt' technologically if we don't change socially ? Do you subscribe to the 'weak' Gaia theory, or the 'strong' one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 26 July, 2012 Share Posted 26 July, 2012 Sounds to me you've been in the US wayyyyy too freaking long. He makes a fair point though. We are insignificant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 26 July, 2012 Share Posted 26 July, 2012 He makes a fair point though. We are insignificant. Fair if you ignore the science, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 26 July, 2012 Share Posted 26 July, 2012 Fair if you ignore the science, yes. Science is insignificant too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 26 July, 2012 Share Posted 26 July, 2012 Science is insignificant too Yes, Mr Icke. Of course it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 26 July, 2012 Share Posted 26 July, 2012 Yes, Mr Icke. Of course it is. http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/69973-the-stars-of-the-olympics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 27 July, 2012 Share Posted 27 July, 2012 Oh crikey, George is back! It's been awhile... Trousers' repeated 'insignificant' point is absolutely correct, when you view this subject from afar. We all know that we (the human race) are but a microscopic parasite on a pimple on the arse of the solar system. But I think it's fair to say most people don't view it from that point of view. If we viewed everything like that then nothing would ever happen, and we might as well just all kill ourselves and be done with it now. We have our lives to live, and we will have descendents who, I assume, we all want to live as happily and as heathily, if not more so, than us? I believe it is incumbent upon us to leave our home in the same or better state than I inherited it. As the native American saying goes: "We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors: we borrow it from our children." So, whilst there will always be a huge amount of things that we have no control over, and the climate *may* be one of them (remember George, I can accept that I might be wrong... are you still unable to?), the vast array of science so far, indicates that we are having an effect on it and therefore I believe the precautionary principle should hold true... we should try to reduce and stop activities which, according to the best research currently available, are contributing to the changing climate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 27 July, 2012 Share Posted 27 July, 2012 I think trousers means something slightly different by 'insignificant' - that humanity is too small a component of the planet to affect global climate. In that, he is demonstrably (and I use that word advisedly) wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint George Posted 27 July, 2012 Share Posted 27 July, 2012 Oh crikey, George is back! It's been awhile... Trousers' repeated 'insignificant' point is absolutely correct, when you view this subject from afar. We all know that we (the human race) are but a microscopic parasite on a pimple on the arse of the solar system. But I think it's fair to say most people don't view it from that point of view. If we viewed everything like that then nothing would ever happen, and we might as well just all kill ourselves and be done with it now. We have our lives to live, and we will have descendents who, I assume, we all want to live as happily and as heathily, if not more so, than us? I believe it is incumbent upon us to leave our home in the same or better state than I inherited it. As the native American saying goes: "We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors: we borrow it from our children." So, whilst there will always be a huge amount of things that we have no control over, and the climate *may* be one of them (remember George, I can accept that I might be wrong... are you still unable to?), the vast array of science so far, indicates that we are having an effect on it and therefore I believe the precautionary principle should hold true... we should try to reduce and stop activities which, according to the best research currently available, are contributing to the changing climate. Of course i accept i could be wrong.....But the fact remains, right or wrong, there's not a damned thing that can be done about it, so loose the God complex and quit pretending that the Earths climate could ever be under the control of Humans....aint ever gunna happen.... As the CholulaKid mentions above....Over population will do more to disrupt this planet and far quicker than any change in climate would.....Ironically, the answer to producing more food to feed the out of control human population increase, is to introduce more plant food (Carbon Dioxide) and make it warmer..ie produce one big green house....go figure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 27 July, 2012 Share Posted 27 July, 2012 Of course i accept i could be wrong.....But the fact remains, right or wrong, there's not a damned thing that can be done about it, so loose the God complex and quit pretending that the Earths climate could ever be under the control of Humans....aint ever gunna happen.... You accept you could be wrong but then try telling me that the 'fact' remains etc, etc... funny way to accept you could be wrong. No God complex either, just looking to understand what, if any, influence we have. That's just a healthy interest in my book, and as I've said many times, borne out of genuine concern for future generations. As the CholulaKid mentions above....Over population will do more to disrupt this planet and far quicker than any change in climate would.....Ironically, the answer to producing more food to feed the out of control human population increase, is to introduce more plant food (Carbon Dioxide) and make it warmer..ie produce one big green house....go figure Absolutely agree that population is a big issue, but your solution to finding more food, whilst possibly true in the narrowest sense, takes no account of the knock on effects it could have to biodiversity and, of course, our climate. Not to mention all the other issues that an increasing population brings, but that's probably a separate conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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