Staying late at work

[SO16_Saint]

What is your thoughts on this?

 

From an employers and employee point of view?

 

Our normal hours are 9-5:30 but I'm in at 8:30-6 pretty much every day.

 

Management aren't happy with this and expect us to do more hours, until at least 7:00.

 

My view is to tell them to do one, but as I'm still in probation, don't think it's the best career move!!

[Gemmel]

It depends - Is it a job or is it a career?

 

If it is just a job then it is down to you and you could ask to be paid, but if it is a career, then in today's World, you will just need to do it.

Doesn't seem fair, but as you progress you will do a lot more unpaid hours than an extra one every day.

 

However, if can work both ways and if you have stuck in a few hours of non paid overtime, when you need to leave early on a Friday or whatever, you have the right to ask.

[bridge too far]

What is your thoughts on this?

 

From an employers and employee point of view?

 

Our normal hours are 9-5:30 but I'm in at 8:30-6 pretty much every day.

 

Management aren't happy with this and expect us to do more hours, until at least 7:00.

 

My view is to tell them to do one, but as I'm still in probation, don't think it's the best career move!!

 

1. What does your Contract of Employment say?

2. If the additional hours mean you will be working more than 48 hours a week, have you opted out of the Working Hours Directive?

3. If you work the additional hours, beyond what your Contract states, will you get paid overtime or TOIL?

[um pahars]

So many variables.

 

Role?

Salary?

Frequency?

Performance?

Confidence?

Personal circumstances?

Replacability?

 

Personally speaking (and without answers to the above) I have reservations about working really long hours, either you're not very good at your role, or you're being asked to do too much.

 

I would happily do it on occasions, year ends, stock takes, special projects, but I always saw so much of it as a bit of a d1ck waving contest in who can leave the office the latest. You need a work/life balance and working too long is not beneficial to yourself, your family and your employer.

 

I remember a few bosses who would work long hours.

 

One used to spend hours staring at the computer and I thought she was a workahoilc until I noticed the reflection of Solitaire in the office window!!! Coupled with the fact she was a bit of a sad loner, no family and no interests outside of work, I found it rather depressing that she pretended she was a hard worker and even sadder that she used to use her late stays as pressure to get others to stay.

 

Another used to leave before his kids were awake and would return home when they were tucked up in bed. Went far in his field and I met up with him recently and he admitted he regretted missing his kids grow up!!!!

[pedg]

Question is how long is your probation period? One option is obviously to keep them happy during the probation period and then return to your current hours once past probation as they would lose, one assumes, any unfair dismissal case if they then sacked you for not working the expected hours given you are working more than what is contractually agreed. Comes down to how much you want to put up with them getting 'free' work from you against what chance you have of getting a better job elsewhere.

[The Kraken]

If you can't get your job done in your allocated hours (without the occasional few days here and there for work peaks) then you're either not good enough at your job or being asked to do too much.

 

Expecting employees to work 10, 11 or 12 hour days while being contracted to work 8 hour days is a complete liberty IMO. As a business owner I would never, ever impose such a demand on my staff without compensating them for it through overtime payments, and even then I'd consider working that many hours over any extended period of time to be an unhealthy arrangement.

[Thedelldays]

my view is stay late and without question..however, soon test this by stating the need to be off slightly early...and see how much give and take there is

[hamster]

Work smart not hard Bridgey.

 

Sorry to hear you feel compromised so early into you new job mate. What sort of time management do the older heads work to?

 

Can you get anything in writing that states that they expect you to work these longer hours without reward or recognition? It could pay dividends should you end up leaving under constructive dismissal.

 

For example, you might send your line manager (you don't need to go any higher as he/she represents the company) with a simple request to convert the extra hours worked on a particular day into TOIL (Time Off In Lieu). The reply may tell you all you need to know and is admissible as evidence in a tribunal. Forward to home all correspondence relating to the matter.

[RonManager]

Self-employed.

 

Unclear on the concept.

[toofarnorth]

My contract states 35 hours per week so that is what I work. Once you get high enough up the pay scale you have no fixed hours so if i was at that pay point I may be more inclined to work longer.

[SO16_Saint]

I'm happy to work the extra hours, I'm in a sales job so naturally you do longer hours to hit target etc etc.

 

I was reading an article on linked in and it just got me thinking about non sales / target roles.

 

Personally, the mgt wouldn't offer TOIL as they see it as all part of the job. I prefer to get in early and leave on time, so doing extra in the mornings, but this isn't seem as 'doing more' so invariably end up doing both!!

 

Can't remember the last time I had a 9-5 job. Even now I'm still working, doing emails, searching for clients etc etc.... And you do it to hit target, to get bonus...

[bridge too far]

I once had a manager who would get into the office at 7am and stay there until about 11pm. She would then go home at 11 and work at home until 2 next morning.

 

Four hours' sleep and she'd be back in the office! And she had two youngish children.

 

She had a breakdown and, as a result of this, everyone else on the team had to work extra hours to make up the shortfall.

 

Quantity doesn't mean quality necessarily.

[rpb]

Working on late is a common practice in many primary schools, staff even take pride in how late they stay even though they are not really doing anything constructive with their time. When I was 'tutted' at for leaving at 4 pm by one teacher, I pointed out that if she is still at work her time management must be very poor... I was not criticised again (not to my face anyway).

[Tokyo-Saint]

I had a bit of a bust up during my appraisal in my previous company. The MD said lots of good things about me, said I was doing a great job etc but said I dont work as late as the other managers. My argument back was that if my results were as good as their or better what does staying late matter? If they had to stay late to do the same stuff I can do in more or less 'normal' time, then it is their 'fault' that they have to stay late. I drew the line at telling them one of the girls sits and plays FarmVille all day then stays till 9pm complaining about her work load so the directors thought she was a hard worker. Sad ****** is what I thought of her.

 

I now have my own company and work hard/late when we are busy to get the job done but if it is quiets we finish early for a drink. I also, whenever possible let everyone watch the big events I.e. we had the Wimbledon semi finals on in the background and people where free to sit and watch a bit as their schedule dictated. I think if someone was taking the **** though I would get ****ed off and that's when you have to impose rules. So far I have been lucky.

[tony13579]

Another point you might be able to make is that some people are early birds and some night owls. If you do your best work in the morning, That is when you work.

 

One of my worst employment mistakes was trying to be a yes man when trying for promotion. That particular manager liked people who challenged him and corrected him.

 

It is not wrong to tell them that you work hard, you do your job, and some, but you have a life outside the job too.

 

I like employees / colleagues who manage their leave and their time well.

[Ohio Saint]

Personally, I'd crap on the carpet and wipe my ass on the curtains. But then I've never worked in sales.

[CB Saint]

I work in a sales environment. If you are on your numbers, time keeping is not an issue. If you are way off and clock watching then there is trouble. You are expected to put in the hours you need to to hit target.

 

I would suggest keeping your head down until you have delivered several targets and definitely don't rock the boat before the new year. Who wants to be out of work before Christmas.

[norwaysaint]

Depends on the job, doesn't it. When I was a primary school teacher I used to arrive at least an hour early, work through every lunchtime and leave two or three hours late every day, now I'm an English teacher I get planning lessons to do all of the extra crap, so I can **** off at the end of the school day. It's an odd thing in teaching, the younger the age group you teach, the harder you work and the less you get paid.

[Chez]

now I'm an English teacher I get planning lessons to do all of the extra crap, so I can **** off at the end of the school day.

 

are you telling me that you leave work at the same time the kids finish? Sigh.

[norwaysaint]

are you telling me that you leave work at the same time the kids finish? Sigh.

 

Yeah, pretty often and sometimes before. Like I say, that was never a possibility as a primary school teacher, but as a sixth form English teacher I get fewer lessons and more planning time. Some days my teaching ends at 11.30. I have work to do, but often I can do it in my own time or even at home, as long as I spend a certain amount of time in the building when I'm available to students.

 

I've taught all ages from 4 years old all the way up to 40 years old and teaching the youngest ones was by far the hardest and most demanding. It took more of my time, was more stressful and paid less. I have a huge amount of respect for (most) primary school teachers and less for teachers at higher levels who generally moan about their workload far more.

[pap]

I've been known to log the hours. I work from home now, so don't have the usual cues that it is time to stop working, such as everyone else buggering off.

 

Ultimately, working late is not in your interests. Even if we temporarily suspend the law of diminishing returns (and that is a major factor), it gives a false impression of what can be achieved in any working day. Don't get me wrong - if there's an occasional crisis, show willing and get through it. If it is every day, get another job, because if it is every day, the company you work for is not being managed properly.

[Special K]

For me it's never been about the hours, more about how effective someone is. I've had staff whinge about how much work they have, but if they spent less time whinging to anyone who'll listen (as well as tossing it off for a couple of hours a day on facebook) and more time working, they would be able to work to decent hours. I've also had staff who will work like stink and never complain, only for them to burn out unexpectedly.

 

I once managed someone who would breeze in at 9, leave at 4 but get twice as much done as most. I thought that was terrific, but he was seen as not pulling his weight by the guvnors, so they got rid of him, which was a real shame.

 

If the OP is in sales, then i guess long hours can come with the territory. But like most jobs, it really comes down to the personalities of those above you in the chain in influencing your happiness and satisfaction from your role.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I'm contracted to do 39 hours, but the bosses line is that I do whatever hours it takes to do my job. There is no O/T or TOIL for extra hours as I'm salaried. I tend to do an hour a day and more if needed.However, because I've built up quite a lot of goodwill, am not seen as taking the **** (unlike other Managers), I get to leave early when I need to, slip in extra days off occasionaly and generally do the hours I want to.I Manage 50 odd staff and sometimes ask them to stay on (they however do get paid O/T), because they can see that I put the hours in, they are quite willing to do so.Whereas other managers who take the ****, struggle to get extar out of their teams.

 

My advise (for what it's worth) is to do a great job early on, be prepared to do extra for nothing, win the trust of the bosses, and most will treat you well. I've not been questioned about my hours or working day or even holidays, for the past 9 years, and all I now do is half an hour early and stay half an hour late, and once in a while put a bit extra in. The ones who clock watch end up getting more ****e from the boss, and end up worrying about work whislt at home.For the sake of 5 hours a week, I have stress free time off and more job satisfaction.

[labibs]

I have to work quite a lot of evenings in my role, but I do get TOIL for it (which I am more than happy with). There is no chance however, of me getting a pay rise, a bonus or any sort of promotion (unless it's a dead man's shoes situation), so there is definitely less of an incentive to be seen to 'put in the extra hours'.

Were I in your situation, I would focus on making sure everything you are asked to do is delivered on time and is done well. Do that for a good few months and bosses will tend to go easy on you, as they know you will deliver. The good bosses I have worked under were much more concerned with getting results, rather than how those results were achieved.

[View From The Top]

I do what I need to do to get the job done but I won't take work home.

 

Usually do an extra 5-6hrs per week.

[Dig Dig]

I think the more employers move towards a more flexible model where possible, the better. I'm a project manager for a large financial institution with a contracted 35 hour week. However, I have an International remit meaning that my working day can start at 7am if a conference call with a south pacific market is required and finish at 11pm if a call with the America's is also needed. I don't mind this at all as I manage my own time and understand that some projects may require a 50 hour weeks but at other times I can just do the 35 hours (or sometimes less).

 

Where possible, people should be judged on results and getting work done however they choose to do it. It's also a matter of give and take.

[hamster]

work out honestly what your hourly rate is. If you're comfortable with the result then carry on, if not then move on. Eventually. My gut feeling is that you're not content whatever the result, be honest, do you enjoy your job?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Depends on the job, doesn't it. When I was a primary school teacher I used to arrive at least an hour early, work through every lunchtime and leave two or three hours late every day, now I'm an English teacher I get planning lessons to do all of the extra crap, so I can **** off at the end of the school day. It's an odd thing in teaching, the younger the age group you teach, the harder you work and the less you get paid.

 

Sixth form isn't a true reflection on teaching though is it. 99% of secondary teachers will pull 9 hour days in the work place plus at least an extra three when you get home and then this is made worse if you want to 'get somewhere'. I'm pretty much nailed on to be promoted from September so I'm having to prove my worth (as it should be) working from 7.30-5 at school and then from about 5.30-8.30 at home.

 

I would suggest primary teachers NEED to work harder to improve what has traditionally been a ****-poor standard of education. The levels of literacy that pupils are STILL coming in with at year 7 is absolutely disgusting; we are having to teach them what they quite frankly should already have been taught!

 

In response to the OP, my philosophy has always been "I'll only work harder if it is worth my while": if these extra hours have the potential to get you 'spotted' then great, if it is just the management being ****s, then do what is required at a basic level and **** off home.

Edited 20 October, 2011 by Thorpe-le-Saint

[gazd83]

Personally for me you have to strike that all important life/work balance.

 

I work in a sales job and a lot of my colleagues regularly stay late to hit targets etc. I fail to see why they need to do this as I am very rarely at work past the officialy 6pm clock off time, more commonly sneaking off for an early finish too and yet have been top earner for the last two years in a row.

 

Work smart, manage the diary effectively as in my opinion you don't often get the thanks that you would want.