doddisalegend Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Might put a dent in the five year plan if this goes through....... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15336398.stm I can imagine all the PL chairman agreeing to this one. why can't you edit titles:blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 That would make 3/4 of the teams pointless.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawillwill Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Won't happen. If it does, even if we're in the premiership, I will no longer follow football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 I'd prefer to stay down in The Football League if this happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangelyBrown Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 If this did actually happen would some of the clubs eventually find themselves voted out? Given that some of the biggest clubs in England with the biggest followings aren't in the premier league and some of those that are there are purely there because of their sugar daddies and not their capacity to generate revenue. What next - invite Barcelona and Real Madrid to join at the expense of Norwich and Wigan? It would ultimately be a disaster for football in this country, but I cant see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Been on the cards for a while. Would kill football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 talk of liverpool's over seas rights...no relegation welcome to a prem with yank influence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Next thing you know they will be wanting to have a draft. What they will do is have a minimum ground capacity of 35-40k to get rid of the likes or Fulham, QPR and Norwich and get the likes of WHU, Leeds in. The good news is most of the foreign owned clubs are the ones at the top, how many of the relegation fodder are foreign owned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Don't think FIFA would pass this but I wouldn't go as far as "it'll never happen." Sports in other countries (and we're predominantly talking the US here) work on franchise licence, even the Rugby League Superleague over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Never happen in a million years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaMarlin Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 I've been saying this for some time. I can't be bothered to look back through my posts, but if somebody can be, please feel free. American owners, especially, cannot understand the concept of promotion and relegation. They own franchises in sports that are effectively a closed shop - NFL, NBA, MLB. What keeps these competitions interesting is a wage cap which means that one club cannot (theoretically) dominate. You can just see some of the PL chairman agreeing to a wage cap, can't you. The next step after this is to form a TV-backed world league, a bit like Kerry Packer did with cricket back in the 70s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Saint Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 I got a better idea than this, how about the tops clubs take their cash and fck off!.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 17 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Never happen in a million years. I thought it required 14 clubs to agree changes to the PL? I can't see to many chairmen thinking that not being relegated from the PL is a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_John Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 I'm not sure this can happen, because of "theFA" and UEFA rules. This site which deals with Football Law says As the FA Premier League is modeled upon the European Model of Sport they operate a system of promotion and relegation with the teams finishing in the bottom three positions relegated to the Championship to be replaced by three teams from that league. However, certain things like the fact that teams cannot be relegated will not change due to the European model of sport requiring this. http://www.inbrief.co.uk/football-law/change-to-premiership-format.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintmatt Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 I'd prefer to stay down in The Football League if this happened. same here - i don't know how they still draw crowds to the closed league systems in the us, it's madness. sport is no longer sport over there now, it's (unentertaining) "entertainment". i went to watch the yankees a few months back and people were more interested in eating and the "crowd cam" etc on the big screen than the match! different culture think a closed euro super league more likely imo, and let they're welcome to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 There has also often been talk of a European Super League, which would've seen Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea etc disappear off to play games against the likes of Real Madrid, Barca, the Milan clubs & Bayern Munich on a permanent basis rather than in the poor replacement for the old European Cup, the Champions League but this has never materialised (I actually reckon this would be a benefit to the rest of the League's teams as it would make for more open competition in our top division!). Every now and again another bright idea comes to the fore but never actually comes to anything (the 39th Premier League game being another) and I'd imagine this will soon been filed alongside them. In fact the only really radical idea which has ever come into being in this country, is the Premier League itself, IMO. This has probably come from clubs like Blackburn who look like relegation fodder every year and would like to hold onto the cash without any stress caused by (yet) another relegation battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the colonel Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 In the past there has been talk of a 2 league premiership. Which is one of the reasons the premier league increased parachute payments to £48m so the clubs that bounce between the two divisions get too rich for the football league and break away to join the premier league to create two much smaller premier leagues. If the PL voted to stop relegation to the football league then the above could become even more viable resulting in the remaining football league clubs becoming even poorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 I thought it required 14 clubs to agree changes to the PL? I can't see to many chairmen thinking that not being relegated from the PL is a bad thing. good point, but if they have to vote for something like this to come in in two years time how many of them are confident enough that it won't be their club that are relegated before the shop is closed forever more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 In the past there has been talk of a 2 league premiership. Which is one of the reasons the premier league increased parachute payments to £48m so the clubs that bounce between the two divisions get too rich for the football league and break away to join the premier league to create two much smaller premier leagues. If the PL voted to stop relegation to the football league then the above could become even more viable resulting in the remaining football league clubs becoming even poorer. I've never really understood the concept of a premier league 2. Is this just the Premier leagues way of removing the Football League from the face of the earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Moves are being made for a two-tier Premier League, obviously. Shame really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 I got a better idea than this, how about the tops clubs take their cash and fck off!.. That's by the best solution so far....................How rediculous. Football for me would be not worth watching under such a set up. Still won't have to cancel my Sky as don't and wont have it. It has wrecked football but this scenario would be screwing down the coffin lid for ever..........I for one would walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMPR Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 And you dont think 14 clubs would agree to guarantee themselves £50m a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 I thought it required 14 clubs to agree changes to the PL? I can't see to many chairmen thinking that not being relegated from the PL is a bad thing. Even if 14 clubs did vote for it, that still does not mean that the premier league will make the change. Does not quite work like that, but needs 14 at least to put it forward to the FA for changes. Slow news week!! Will never happen in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Won't happen. If it does, even if we're in the premiership, I will no longer follow football. I'd follow non-league football instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
once_bitterne Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Two tier PL with 18 teams in each. Tv revenue shared equally between the 36 teams. Promotion between the two PLs but not out of PL2. The rest of the league clubs to play in a semi-pro football league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Been on the cards for a while. Would kill football. This. Considering the TV money floating around, and the ridiculous amounts invested by foreign owners, it was only a matter of time. If it happens it will kill the goose laying the golden eggs. Football will be finished in 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 I'd follow non-league football instead. I would be even more driven to watch my kids teams in preference to the pro game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 (edited) The trouble is the gulf between the earning powers of the Prem and the Championship is getting wider, think back to the eighties and when teams went down they didn't have to offload or their top earners, there weren't clubs in the second division going bust. The evolution of sport is that the big and strong continually look for bigger and better competitors, the time has come where a European League should naturally happen, but the big boys still wont to dominate their domestic leagues as well. So we have ended up with a situation where the clubs below the big ones are forced to expend similar amounts of cash, this is just about sustainable in the prem but its not when you get relegated. So we have ended up with a set up where a prem team is in a financially unsustainable position when they are relegated, so how do you get around this when the natural solution of the european league isn't on the agenda; reduce wages, no relegation, Prem 2 or 5 up 5 down. Something has got to give and personally I hope it is a Euro Super League, but I can see Prem 2 coming first, however 5 up 5 down would be the easiest one to pass. I bet the lawyers are praying for a 'No Relegation' vote as it will be one hell of a struggle to realise it. Edited 17 October, 2011 by Fan The Flames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 I've been saying this for some time. I can't be bothered to look back through my posts, but if somebody can be, please feel free. American owners, especially, cannot understand the concept of promotion and relegation. They own franchises in sports that are effectively a closed shop - NFL, NBA, MLB. What keeps these competitions interesting is a wage cap which means that one club cannot (theoretically) dominate. You can just see some of the PL chairman agreeing to a wage cap, can't you. The next step after this is to form a TV-backed world league, a bit like Kerry Packer did with cricket back in the 70s. On The Press Pass on Talksport lat night Matt Dickinson of the Times said the "American owners" in the PL were driving this. Said exactly what you said, they want an NFL Franchise sysytem. He claimed that they did want a wage cap bought into place, other wise all the extra money earned from this closed shop will just gush into the players pockets. If they set the wage cap at a level that only a champions league club could afford, it will control their costs, but keep the Villa's, Spurs ect in their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint.tom.clancy Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 I cant believe this is seriously being talked about! Would kill off football completely. Would definitely follow non-league. It gets more and more about money, and less about the love of the game all the time. Stick your no relegation up your a*se, even if we were in the PL i'd still be 100% against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 The only way it could ever conceivably work is if it followed the NFL model completely - yes be a franchise with no relegation but also you would have to have the draft system. That is why no one NFL club really ever dominates. The weakest performing club from the last season gets to pick first from the new intake of players coming from the college 'football'. Now we don't even have colleges. Most clubs don't even have respectable academies. There is just no way this is anything other than a pure pipe dream. I echo the thoughts of others. If it ever was implemented, even if we were in the Prem at the time I would stop following football. It would be emotional to do so as I love my club, but it would lose all meaning if there is no threat - or promise - of relegation/promotion. And I would not be the only one. Football would die in this country the day it was implemented and before long stadiums would be empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 And you dont think 14 clubs would agree to guarantee themselves £50m a year? Not if they've got a head on their shoulders. It wouldn't be guaranteed. The money wont be there when within a couple of years because... People stop going to games People stop buying the shirts People stop watching it on tv and generally lose interest Sponsors will begin to pull out Prawn sandwich patrol will stop going Demand for TV rights will be less meaning Sky wont have to pay anywhere near as much to get the rights The leagues would get less money meaning less rewards Clubs get less money Football dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
once_bitterne Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Not if they've got a head on their shoulders. It wouldn't be guaranteed. The money wont be there when within a couple of years because... People stop going to games People stop buying the shirts People stop watching it on tv and generally lose interest Sponsors will begin to pull out Prawn sandwich patrol will stop going Demand for TV rights will be less meaning Sky wont have to pay anywhere near as much to get the rights The leagues would get less money meaning less rewards Clubs get less money Football dies. None of that would happen tho. The demand for tickets, tv and shirts would be the same. What would happen is that some non PL (2 tier?) teams would cease to exist and some would go semi pro. Given that the support for many L1/L2 is dwindling to negligible levels already this may be no bad thing. Most kids in L1/L2 towns like Oldham support one of the Big 4 anyway so what's the issue. Having no promotion and relegation will have no affect whatsoever on the fan levels of PL teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paris Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Would kill football as we know it for me and millions of others anyway , hope it never sees the light of day....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Two tier PL with 18 teams in each. Tv revenue shared equally between the 36 teams. Promotion between the two PLs but not out of PL2. The rest of the league clubs to play in a semi-pro football league. So really it'd be no relegation from the (slightly smaller) Championship then, not Premiership. Not that I'm supporting it, but there does seem to be more of a gulf between Championship and League One teams than there does between bottom Prem / top Championship sides in terms of size, infrastructure, attendance etc. Obviously noting there's a few teams perhaps "in the wrong league" right now (ie Charlton, Sheff Wed in Lg One). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSFC Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 If you remove relegation from the Premiership then you remove promotion from The Championship, an obvious comment but this then completely devalues the Championship because without the incentive to progress to the highest/best league to play against the (current) best teams everyone will lose interest, from supporters, to chairmen, to players. This in turn dominoes down the system and would kill the game in this country. The motivation and incentive to create something successful - like Saints are actually doing now - would be removed. Do you think Markus and Nicola would have bought "League One Southampton" if the best the y could achieve would be winning The Championship? Of course they wouldn't. Clubs like Chelsea should remember that they are only where they are because of the money Abramovich (and Matthew Harding before him, as didn't he oversee most of the development of Stamford Bridge?) has invested, not because they have a massive supporter base. They do know BECAUSE of their success and have spent millions marketing themselves abroad. Before this time, 80's and most of 90's they were not much better than us in fact worse for many! A closed shop set-up is only good for one person....the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardvark Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 The only way it could ever conceivably work is if it followed the NFL model completely - yes be a franchise with no relegation but also you would have to have the draft system. That is why no one NFL club really ever dominates. The weakest performing club from the last season gets to pick first from the new intake of players coming from the college 'football'. Now we don't even have colleges. Most clubs don't even have respectable academies. There is just no way this is anything other than a pure pipe dream. I echo the thoughts of others. If it ever was implemented, even if we were in the Prem at the time I would stop following football. It would be emotional to do so as I love my club, but it would lose all meaning if there is no threat - or promise - of relegation/promotion. And I would not be the only one. Football would die in this country the day it was implemented and before long stadiums would be empty. This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint 76er Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 On The Press Pass on Talksport lat night Matt Dickinson of the Times said the "American owners" in the PL were driving this. Said exactly what you said, they want an NFL Franchise sysytem. He claimed that they did want a wage cap bought into place, other wise all the extra money earned from this closed shop will just gush into the players pockets. If they set the wage cap at a level that only a champions league club could afford, it will control their costs, but keep the Villa's, Spurs ect in their place. Let's hope all this rubbish never comes about (or govt legislates against it) as the difference in the American concept of sport and our own 'working man's game' is chalk and cheese. Just to expand on the American way, if it becomes a closed shop and wage cap is brought in then you have never ending disputes between players union and management. The NBA is currently closed down due to such a dispute and probably not back before Xmas, with the whole season in real jeopardy. The NFL only started up shortly before season opener after months of wrangling. The NHL did in fact lose an entire season in a previous dispute. Fans over there are appalled by all this as they see it as billionaire owners taking on millionaire players for the cream off the top of a multi billion dollar business and to hell with everyone else (fans). Where did sport go in all of this? Beware of salary caps US style, they are amorphous things. NBA is currently stuck on a 'hard cap' or 'soft cap' issue. Hard cap sets a figure and that's that. Soft cap sets a figure but you can go way over it no problem, except that you pay a 'luxury tax' on the over amount. If you can afford the tax you can gain a significant advantage over the have-nots of the league. Therefore Man U will always be top and Wigan always bottom of this immovable league .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Salary caps in the premier league will never work because the top players would just go abroad to clubs that do not have salary caps. This idea of closing the premier league would kill football, but the only plus points are that the Skates will be forever locked out as their ground would not be up to standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Salary caps in the premier league will never work because the top players would just go abroad to clubs that do not have salary caps. This idea of closing the premier league would kill football, but the only plus points are that the Skates will be forever locked out as their ground would not be up to standard. There are not many other clubs out there which could afford to pay £250,000 per week. Maybe Real/Barca, maybe one or two in Italy and Germany but none in the Americas (Beckham is an exception which proves the rule). Africa - nope, far east ditto. I admit to having not seen any proof, but I would be astonished if the Prem is not already waaaay out in front of other leagues in terms of players' wages. Even mid-table wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waggy Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 This was talked about many years ago, in the 90's, but the idea then was to make it a proper league i.e. with two divisions. The Prem Div 2 was to be made up of 'selected' clubs from the other three divisions, I think selection was going to be based on potential income, ground size, fan base etc. Sheite idea then and just as crepe today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 I thought it required 14 clubs to agree changes to the PL? I can't see to many chairmen thinking that not being relegated from the PL is a bad thing. It would kill the competition and ruin the league - I doubt many owners would be in favour of it if they thought about the consequences. The owners of Man Utd, Arsenal etc don't give a monkeys about relegation, they would give a monkeys if the Prem became the dullest league in Europe and fans, TV audiences, advertisers and sponsors f*cked off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 I really do think that these big clubs are trying to devise a way that they can form a European Super League. I say let them go....see how many supporters turn up to away games. If relegation did go through, clubs like Blackburn and QPR (doubtful they will be PL next season anyway) will either loose all their supporters and ask to leave, or be pushed out. Then when the 20 clubs have been whittled down to 8 or 10, they can go their merry way into Europe or set up like the Scottish PL. If it did go ahead, I would hope that the Football League would set an ultimatum - join us now or that's it and when the **** hits the fan, you can lump it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 I'd follow non-league football instead. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 There is more chance of me getting a phone call from NA asking me to take Rickie's place tomorrow evening than this happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 This was talked about many years ago, in the 90's, but the idea then was to make it a proper league i.e. with two divisions. The Prem Div 2 was to be made up of 'selected' clubs from the other three divisions, I think selection was going to be based on potential income, ground size, fan base etc. Sheite idea then and just as crepe today. Well, it's a lot better idea than the one closed shop PL being proposed. To be honest, there are too many professional teams in England now. Most teams in L1 and L2 are barely surviving, and many in the Championship too. Relegation now from the PL is close to a death knell to some clubs. Remember it almost cost us our club's existence! I remember watching the final PL match against ManUre with an American friend, and after we lost he said don't worry, it's not that bad. I had to explain to him that is was that bad, and that he was lucky that in the US they don't have the disastrous relegation. Having a PL1 and PL2, keeping the same 3 up 3 down, and more money going into PL2 than the current Championship, wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea. On top of that, maybe have one relegation spot in PL2, with any team going up having to meet ground size criteria (much like they do in Scotland). Big teams currently in L1 (e.g. the Sheffields) would be invited to join PL2, and the shite currently in the Championship shown the door (e.g. Cheats FC ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 To be honest, there are too many professional teams in England now. I'm always amazed that clubs don't merge. I know that to be a successful merger they would have to be in close geographical proximity to one another and therefore 'fan politics/hatred etc' would be a consideration but so what? Merge away. Pool resources, pool players and fans and have a much better chance of survival. It is not unknown to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 If we had the PL1 and PL2 model with 36 teams in a closed shop but movement between the two allowed, I would be very interested in what criteria would be applied for 1. Which 36 teams ? 2. Which of the 36 go into PL1 and which into PL2 ? Would they do it on accumulated record over PL history (in which case we'd probably just about scrape into PL1..still...)? Would they do it on club turnover ? Attendance ? For the other 56 clubs, this would be a death warrant. The legal battles would tie this up in a court for GENERATIONS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 17 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Well, it's a lot better idea than the one closed shop PL being proposed. To be honest, there are too many professional teams in England now. Most teams in L1 and L2 are barely surviving, and many in the Championship too. Relegation now from the PL is close to a death knell to some clubs. Remember it almost cost us our club's existence! I remember watching the final PL match against ManUre with an American friend, and after we lost he said don't worry, it's not that bad. I had to explain to him that is was that bad, and that he was lucky that in the US they don't have the disastrous relegation. Having a PL1 and PL2, keeping the same 3 up 3 down, and more money going into PL2 than the current Championship, wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea. On top of that, maybe have one relegation spot in PL2, with any team going up having to meet ground size criteria (much like they do in Scotland). Big teams currently in L1 (e.g. the Sheffields) would be invited to join PL2, and the shite currently in the Championship shown the door (e.g. Cheats FC ) With a few exceptions (MK Dons, AFC dons) surely most of the clubs in the football leagues have pretty long historys? It was OK until the PL put most of the money in the hands of a few rather than sharing the wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 The Premier League has stated that the FA would veto this proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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