hypochondriac Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 Well said. Most of the derision when he signed was quoting Celtic fans opinions on a player who had hardly played for them recently due to injury and being on loan. Bet they wish he was back with them now seeing as their defnce is looking pretty poor at the moment. Others dimissed the player due to their low opinion of Scottish football even though another signing Danny Fox played for Celtic not that long ago and his signing was welcomed. Anyway hope the loan is extended as he has looked decent so far. No one dismissed him. They offered an initial reaction. Many posters used the exact same criteria to comment on the signing of de ridder for instance, yet nobody made any comment about that initial opinion because it wasn't 'negative'. Can you understand the very obvious difference between giving your thoughts on a player signing before his has played and writing him off as awful before he has kicked a ball??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 ...and wasn't it Ian Branfoot who thought MLT inferior enough to exiled to the bench. Mods, can you check the swear filter, I dont think its switched on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 The trouble is that minority of idiots shout the loudest and the most often, so their opinions tend to spring to mind quickest. It's what this forum is all about. And whilst I don't think many people openly wrote him off, there were too many (IMO) comments about how Celtic fans don't want him and are glad to see him go, about how we 'failed' to address our CB weakness and other such comments that didn't write him off, but we clearly putting him down before he had worn a Saints shirt. I didn't see it like that at all. Why were people not condemning posters who declared themselves excited about the de ridder signing, and used the exact same criteria to form that opinion as they did to form their one about Jos? Why is it ok to think that a player may be really good for us based on evidence from other fans, but not ok to think a player may not be so good based on the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 I didn't see it like that at all. Why were people not condemning posters who declared themselves excited about the de ridder signing, and used the exact same criteria to form that opinion as they did to form their one about Jos? Why is it ok to think that a player may be really good for us based on evidence from other fans, but not ok to think a player may not be so good based on the same thing? Have a read: http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?32340-Jos-Hooiveld-signs-on-loan To me, some of the comments in that thread are unfairly negative before he had played for us. I don't think that's right, just as I don't think it's right to judge any player we don't know about - good, bad or otherwise - before they have played. I'm with you, judgement should be reserved. The exception is when a player signs who we know a lot about, who we know is good or bad. If we re-signed Pulis I think it would be fair to be angry. If we signed somebody at the other end of the scale, it would be fair to get excited. But if we don't know, the sort of comments you can read in that thread are unfair, IMO. I think we're arguing in agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 Im not sure we are! . My stance is that both positive and negative initial opinion based on not a lot is part of football and always has been. I fully support both negative and positive comments about a player before they have played as long as the person making the comments is willing to change their opinions once they have seen the player perform over a period of time and is able to make a more informed decision based on more evidence. If we refrained from offering an opinion about a player that we knew little about every time they signed, then this forum (and indeed the pubs where these exact same conversations occur) would be a very dull place indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 My misunderstanding then, I thought you were on the side of reserving judgement until we had seen a player play for us. But, as you quite rightly say, all this B.S. is what makes football fun and football forums infuriating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 Have a read: http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?32340-Jos-Hooiveld-signs-on-loan To me, some of the comments in that thread are unfairly negative before he had played for us. I don't think that's right, just as I don't think it's right to judge any player we don't know about - good, bad or otherwise - before they have played. I'm with you, judgement should be reserved. The exception is when a player signs who we know a lot about, who we know is good or bad. If we re-signed Pulis I think it would be fair to be angry. If we signed somebody at the other end of the scale, it would be fair to get excited. But if we don't know, the sort of comments you can read in that thread are unfair, IMO. I think we're arguing in agreement Scroll down to hypo's first post on that thread, and I think it sums it up perfectly: Sounds pretty awful but prepared to see what he is like. Personally, I see nothing at all wrong with that comment. An evaluation of the evidence to hand, and then a confirmation that any judgement of the player would only be made after seeing him first hand. Hypo is absolutely right with the comparisons with de Ridder, many people were wetting themselves about how good he was going to be based on his previous club's fans' reccomendations. To highlight Celtic fans opinions of him wasn't writing him off, merely showing a relfection of what they thought of him. As I've said, the majority of people were therefore rightly skeptical of him, but certainly did not write him off before seeing him play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 My misunderstanding then, I thought you were on the side of reserving judgement until we had seen a player play for us. But, as you quite rightly say, all this B.S. is what makes football fun and football forums infuriating Are you saying you never have an initial gut reaction when you hear about a signing? I thought for instance that balotelli would be a bad signing for man city but I had never actually seen him play myself. Opinions like that are part of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 (edited) When Kevin Keegan signed for us way back in 1980, did all the "real" Saints fans shrug their shoulders and decide to wait until he'd played ten games before they decided he was a good signing? Just asking, if gut reactions to signings are so terribly wrong. Edited 16 October, 2011 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbert Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 Is he any better than Seabourne? If not I can't see the point in signing him permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 Is he any better than Seabourne? In a word, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 When Kevin Keegan signed for us way back in 1980, did all the "real" Saints fans shrug their shoulders and decide to wait until he'd played ten games before they decided he was a good signing? Just asking, if gut reactions to signings are so terribly wrong. To be fair, if today we signed Lionel Messi (yes kids that's what today's equivalent signing would be) I think we could all assess his potential... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 In a word, yes. Actually the word you were looking for was 'much'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 We are very lucky to have a player of hs calibre, there are not many n the bargain basement that are as good. Will do the job this year, we only need to secure our place in the league this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 Depends on the price. £250k - yes probably, but I think we can get better............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 Is he any better than Seabourne? If not I can't see the point in signing him permanently. More importantly he is currently available for selection,Seabourne is not. Unfortunate,sad even, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 Yes, he's been great so far and seems like a great bloke too - always good to have characters like that in the dressing room. I would like to see us sign a quality left-footed centre-back in January or the summer, but he would be fantastic back-up and would be pushing for a starting place if his current form continued if we signed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsacar saint Posted 16 October, 2011 Share Posted 16 October, 2011 The reservation I had when we signed him was if he could not get into an SPL side in one of the weakest leagues in Europe,then he may struggle. However he has improved every game that I have seen him at St Marys,infact dare I say he has looked more solid than Fonte,who has not up to now[ imho] set the championship alight like I thought he would.[still time though,tuesday night will be a good game,for Jose to have his best game of the seasdon so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbert Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 More importantly he is currently available for selection,Seabourne is not. Unfortunate,sad even, but true. Which is why he's a good loan signing. Hopefully Seabourne will play for Saints again though, so unless Hooiveld is better than Seabourne there'd be no point in signing him permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 He has improved every game and currently is looking a solid defender. Sign him up? YES Better than Seaborne? YES Wristslitters wrong at time of signing again? YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 He has improved every game and currently is looking a solid defender. Sign him up? YES Better than Seaborne? YES Wristslitters wrong at time of signing again? YES Wristslitters invented by certain posters to validate their incorrect opinion? YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West End Saint Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 I think he has done well & is worth buying in jan it takes time to form a partnership at centre back & he & Fonte are doing well just because he was not the stella signing we were waiting for dosent mean he is not a decent player for now he he is doing ok so stick with him if the price is right. No reason we shouldnt invest in another centre back as well & obviously striker in Jan competition for places makes everyone step up just look at hammond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Wristslitters invented by certain posters to validate their incorrect opinion? YES You need help mate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 You need help mate... You are seeing things that simply do not exist. If you read this thread in its entirety then you will realise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 without getting involved in the usual 'make this thread about me' banter - The way Celtic are leaking goals combined with reports going back to Glasgow that Hooiveld is playing well it would be a bit of a bummer if the loan wasnt extended. Then again he could turn to horse **** by then so doesnt matter....but he has played well by all accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanW Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Yes. As long as the asking price isn't TOO high, yes. He's started every game since his arrival - clearly he's our best option in NA's opinion. If they want something absurd then I guess not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint 76er Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Yes. As long as the asking price isn't TOO high, yes. He's started every game since his arrival - clearly he's our best option in NA's opinion. If they want something absurd then I guess not. Word out of Glasgow when he signed was that Celtic wanted 2 mill which we wouldn't pay, hence the last minute loan. Therefore, he remains Celtic's player and up to them what they want to do. If his good form continues they may be unwilling to reduce the fee, or may want him back for their own use. Also Lennon may get chopped which might complicate things. Will be interesting to see how this plays out in January as Jos appears to be angling for a move to us but NC is bound to play hard ball on the fee (if we do pursue) and regrettably we no longer have Pulis to offer in part exchange. There is Puncheon though .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Celtic may have wanted 2 million but that was because the day before every sports section of every newspaper reported we had off loaded Oxo cube to the arse for 15 million. You dunnae have to be the canniest of Scots to bump up the price when you know the Saints bank account is now overflowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 17 October, 2011 Share Posted 17 October, 2011 Leave it for NA to decide, but FWIW he has done a bloody good job for us so far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 18 October, 2011 Share Posted 18 October, 2011 Quality, beasted Carew tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiesaint Posted 18 October, 2011 Share Posted 18 October, 2011 Word out of Glasgow when he signed was that Celtic wanted 2 mill which we wouldn't pay, hence the last minute loan. Therefore, he remains Celtic's player and up to them what they want to do. If his good form continues they may be unwilling to reduce the fee, or may want him back for their own use. Also Lennon may get chopped which might complicate things. And that is looking increasingly probable. I hope we can extend the loan. Why sign him? As far as I can see, if he does eel, we may well need to reassess our tart as we could be looking at a higher league. All depends on the fee I guess. Still, we seem to have benefitted from a daft decision by Celtic given how poor their team is. He's from Holland, not Portsmouth. HTH, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benj Posted 18 October, 2011 Share Posted 18 October, 2011 Needs to be signed, simple as. I said when he joined that he was a top class player with experience of playing at the highest level for a good side (Champions League with Copenhagen), and he's looked every bit a player of that calibre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_jas Posted 18 October, 2011 Share Posted 18 October, 2011 Would definitely sign him. Bit shaky at 1st but now has the confidence and can see him having a great partnership with Fonte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 18 October, 2011 Share Posted 18 October, 2011 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 18 October, 2011 Share Posted 18 October, 2011 MOTM tonight for me. Keeps improving every game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 18 October, 2011 Share Posted 18 October, 2011 Stand out performer tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 18 October, 2011 Share Posted 18 October, 2011 Certainly did his cause no harm with a bustling no nonsense display against a team playing hoofball tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 18 October, 2011 Share Posted 18 October, 2011 After tonight I would sign him up. Reminded me of michael svennson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 18 October, 2011 Share Posted 18 October, 2011 Easy decision. He seems to absolutely love it here, He's settled in really well and most importantly looks to be a terrific centre back. He's so strong...and he's not going to get test more physical than the one he had tonight against Carew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFKA South Woodford Posted 18 October, 2011 Share Posted 18 October, 2011 You could see that he didn't want to leave the pitch at the end, he had a huge grin on his face and just wanted to stay and celebrate with us fans, I think he's fallen in love with Southampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 18 October, 2011 Share Posted 18 October, 2011 I would hope that a purchase fee would have already been agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint J 77 Posted 18 October, 2011 Share Posted 18 October, 2011 You could see that he didn't want to leave the pitch at the end, he had a huge grin on his face and just wanted to stay and celebrate with us fans, I think he's fallen in love with Southampton. I thought that the other week when he tweeted about the team spirit. Hopefully we can sign him up in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draino76 Posted 18 October, 2011 Share Posted 18 October, 2011 Yes. Would be happy to pay £2 million. Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 18 October, 2011 Share Posted 18 October, 2011 Celtic want only £2,000,000 ? Feking bargain. NA..NC... Get him on the long term bus. Spend a few of the Oxo quids and get him. Anyone at the game tonight must surely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsaint Posted 19 October, 2011 Share Posted 19 October, 2011 Im pretty sure that we can get him for much less than the 2million celtic paid for him. He doesnt seem wanted there anymore. Anythin around a million would be a steal because he has shown his quality already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 19 October, 2011 Share Posted 19 October, 2011 Im pretty sure that we can get him for much less than the 2million celtic paid for him. He doesnt seem wanted there anymore. Anythin around a million would be a steal because he has shown his quality already whatever.. just sign him time to splash the cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthesquid Posted 19 October, 2011 Share Posted 19 October, 2011 I thought we had him on loan with a view to a permanent signing - as per Chappers, Guly etc. That is how we tend to do it. But looks one of the finds of the season - he has fitted in like he has played in that teams for years, not weeks, and last night was as touigh a physical test as he will face this season. Give him his ticket and find him a seat on the bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 19 October, 2011 Share Posted 19 October, 2011 Easy decision. He seems to absolutely love it here, He's settled in really well and most importantly looks to be a terrific centre back. He's so strong...and he's not going to get test more physical than the one he had tonight against Carew. Agree on all counts ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd Posted 19 October, 2011 Share Posted 19 October, 2011 Having seen his last two performances last night and at Derby its a no brainer - sign him plus as you can see at the end of each game he obviously likes it here - winning helps though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabrone Posted 19 October, 2011 Share Posted 19 October, 2011 I'd certainly keep him on till the end of the season if possible and take it from there. He was probably low on confidence at Celtic but now he's at a club that he seems to be enjoying playing for his true potential is starting to show. If we could extend the deal till the end of the season and he keeps on progressing at the rate he is then he'd have to be seriously considered as a permanent signing come May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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