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Make or break month ?


alpine_saint

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This !

The benefit of a flying start is when you do have a blip then the other teams still need to catch up first, never mind building an uncatchable lead over us !

 

\the other benefit is that it keeps us well above the scrapping zone. We should be fine for lower mid table finish, when things start to go wrong.

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Next few weeks will go a long way to proving whether we will be there or thereabouts come May.

 

I am cautiously optimistic, but am a little worried by our showings against Cardiff and Leicester.

 

I hope NA has done a lot of work with the defence over the break.

 

We were decent at Leicester and would have won bar miracle saves from Schmeichel. Yes we wern't at the races first half of that game, but Leicester aren't a bad side and once we worked out their gameplan, we countered it very very well.

 

Cardiff we wern't exactly poor, we didn't take our chances like we have in previous games, Rickie missed two golden chances (one a sitter from 6yards) and Morgan missed a one on one. Therefore you shouldn't be worried about the showings. You aren't going to win every game, it just doesn't happen. There will be some matches when it simply isn't our day.

 

This month isn't going to be make or break, as long as we try and average two points a game, we will be in a fine position. I fear some fans expect too much now, there will be a spell where we go three or four games without a win because every team has it during the season.

 

Personally I don't see us strong enough up top when playing Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday against decent sides including being away on the Tuesday evening. Come January, add a striker to the squad and if we are in and around the top 4 we will have a good chance.

 

I don't think we will get automatic myself, playoffs are still my goal for this side. I see us dropping off come December/January. Reinforcements in the transfer window could perhaps change this.

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I don't think this month can break us.

 

If we lose most of the games we can still recover, although then we'd be playing catch up. (Might work for us, we were awesome towards the end of last season trying to catch Brighton)

 

This month could certainly make our season though. Win most of the games and we'd probably have a 7-9 point gap to second spot, as well as breaking Boro's unbeaten streak, and our confidence going into an easier (on paper) run of games would be through the roof.

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I have to say, the abuse that alps gets on this forum is ridiculous. In my opinion he actually raises quite a few good points and I kind of agree with him here too. Alright, we're not going to win or lose the title this month but it will give us a good indication as to how we will fair against the 'top' teams (top meaning those expected to be top at the end of the season). Losing ground on those teams could come back to bite us at the end of the season. If you look at the premiership, when Man Utd play Chelsea, those two games can define their seasons.

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I have to say, the abuse that alps gets on this forum is ridiculous. In my opinion he actually raises quite a few good points and I kind of agree with him here too. Alright, we're not going to win or lose the title this month but it will give us a good indication as to how we will fair against the 'top' teams (top meaning those expected to be top at the end of the season). Losing ground on those teams could come back to bite us at the end of the season. If you look at the premiership, when Man Utd play Chelsea, those two games can define their seasons.

 

Not always but in this case yes I agree. It isn't quite make or break, but it will be our biggest test so far and if we are still near the top then there is an excellent chance.

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The next 4 games are going to be a test for sure there is still a long way to go & I dont see the next 4 defining the season however it is a very important month & the sternest test we have faced so far.

 

I know I am dreaming but how good would it be if we won them all we would gain a lot more confidence & momentum if we did & put a dent in our rivals title ambitions. Yes I know I am in cloud cuckoo land & I will be delighted if we are still top or top 2 at the end of the month.

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I think our current squad so far has shown its good enough for this league so in theory and not allowing for injury's there is not really any need for big changes in Jan. Maybe keep hold of Jos or get a replacement but what else?

 

If we are for sure looking at promotion to the prem then I would of thought there will be a few more changes but I cant see too many happening even then.

 

Our squad is certainly good enough for this league... but what about the Prem? Look at when we signed our key players for this season... with a couple of exceptions brought in this year, the core of our squad for the NPC was formed in L1, giving the squad time to develop as a team which has really paid off! If we're looking at promotion seriously this season, Jan is the time to repeat that winning formula and start building for life in the Prem.

 

The alternative you have suggested is build for the league we're in and not sign anybody in Jan. But if we then get promoted do you think our players are good enough for the Prem? I'm doubtful, so we'd need to sign new players which would leave us with pre-season only to build and prepare. That's not long enough.

 

Successful teams look into the future and plan for what they are aiming for. They don't simply say 'This will do, we're good enough'.

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I have to say, the abuse that alps gets on this forum is ridiculous. In my opinion he actually raises quite a few good points and I kind of agree with him here too. Alright, we're not going to win or lose the title this month but it will give us a good indication as to how we will fair against the 'top' teams (top meaning those expected to be top at the end of the season). Losing ground on those teams could come back to bite us at the end of the season. If you look at the premiership, when Man Utd play Chelsea, those two games can define their seasons.

 

The abuse is balanced by what he gives out. That's what makes Alpine, Alpine.

 

I don't get your point regarding Man U against Chelsea. The season has too many games for two specific games to define a season.

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Next few weeks will go a long way to proving whether we will be there or thereabouts come May.

 

I am cautiously optimistic, but am a little worried by our showings against Cardiff and Leicester.

 

I hope NA has done a lot of work with the defence over the break.

 

Every month is make or break month when you're on your way to a title! :)

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I've already reflected that "make or break" is not a good title, and does not really convey what I meant.

 

Over the next month, we pit ourselves against those teams already around us and are likely to be around us in April/May.

 

At this stage, barring long-term injuries or headline-grabbing transfer activity for any of those teams, the next month will give a strong indicator as to where we are likely to end up in the table.

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This month is certainly interesting because we play the three teams directly below us. How we perform against them will give us a strong clue as to how far we can go with this team, so it could definitely be a big factor in defining confidence for the season ahead. If we can keep winning our home games and stop the teams near us from taking 3 points when we visit them that will do nicely. Key to this is improving defensively, where we are conceding too many.

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Our squad is certainly good enough for this league... but what about the Prem? Look at when we signed our key players for this season... with a couple of exceptions brought in this year, the core of our squad for the NPC was formed in L1, giving the squad time to develop as a team which has really paid off! If we're looking at promotion seriously this season, Jan is the time to repeat that winning formula and start building for life in the Prem.

 

The alternative you have suggested is build for the league we're in and not sign anybody in Jan. But if we then get promoted do you think our players are good enough for the Prem? I'm doubtful, so we'd need to sign new players which would leave us with pre-season only to build and prepare. That's not long enough.

 

Successful teams look into the future and plan for what they are aiming for. They don't simply say 'This will do, we're good enough'.

 

I agree with you completly. What are the ambitions this season though? Is NC seriously expecting promotion to the prem this season? If so then Jan is the time to buy so we are part built ready for the prem.

 

Does NC want to buy for the prem though? Or produce a few prem players from the youth system? If its the latter then we are still a season or so from being close enough to give it a try IMO. If the plan was push for play-offs this season with the current squad then next season push for promotion bringing in the best from the development squad only adding a few players here and there from external, then promotion this year would require a massive re-think.

 

I am not sure I can see NC spending huge in Jan when he wants the development squad to be given the chance to bolster the ranks. But I cant see him risking promotion by using players that are not ready either. Its a great problem to have though. No options involve hanging about in the Championship for long and all possible scenario's can be seen as positive moves in one way or another. It will be interesting to see what happens in Jan if we are still in touching distance of the top spots. Add to the team in a plan for the prem or let the current team finish the job?

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Next few weeks will go a long way to proving whether we will be there or thereabouts come May.

 

I am cautiously optimistic, but am a little worried by our showings against Cardiff and Leicester.

 

I hope NA has done a lot of work with the defence over the break.

 

Of course our season will be over should we have a bad month considering there is only November, December, January, February, March, April and May to go :rolleyes:

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Of course our season will be over should we have a bad month considering there is only November, December, January, February, March, April and May to go :rolleyes:

 

So what magical event is going to cause us to start winning 6-pointers from November if we lose all those we had up till the end of October, or for all our promotion rivals to start chucking points away at mid-to-bottom of table crap teams ?

 

Its all very easy to sneer patronisingly, but explain for the benefit of us all how exactly this is going to improve if we have a bad October..

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October will not be a make or break month, the majority of our players are still fit an free of injury and the pitches are smooth and firm and it's quite mild to boot, ideal conditions for Adkins' silky smooth ball passing game. Now's the time for us to push n and establish a decent lead at the top.

 

The real tests will come in December & January when Lallana is knackered and clobbered we get cancellations, freezing Saturday afternoons and rain lashed pitches cutting up with every tackle. Then those long trips up to Lancashire twice a week will seem like mountains to climb.

 

This will be when the going gets really tough and the Middlesboro's of this world can grind out results. Unless we have a Plan B we'll fall away to mid-table,

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So what magical event is going to cause us to start winning 6-pointers from November if we lose all those we had up till the end of October, or for all our promotion rivals to start chucking points away at mid-to-bottom of table crap teams ?

 

Its all very easy to sneer patronisingly, but explain for the benefit of us all how exactly this is going to improve if we have a bad October..

 

The same applies to every team, we have the added advantage of points in the bag, the rest are playing catch up. If we have a bad month then so be it. I'm sure all other teams will have the same but your typical "it only happens to the saints" attitude meanss you can't see past your total negative one dimensional state.

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I really dont think you get it.

 

After 10 games we are top of the table. Anything less than play-offs now represents a collossal f**k-up.

 

If we lose these 4 games (and 3 of them currently look like 6-pointers), we are on our way to dropping out of the top 6. Simple as that. Those 4 teams will win their games against the bottom-half crap like we have AND will have beaten us.

 

When I wrote in the title "Make or Break", I wasnt referring to the club. I was referring to this season. Now, come early August I was happy (as I said on more than one occasion) with mid-table consolidation. After the start we've had, that would be a MASSIVE anti-climax.

 

I think if the likes of you and a few on this thread are stuck in the "we've done our best, maybe next year" mentality, then its safe to assume its an attitude prevalent throughout the fan base. I am fairly certain that Chairman, Manager and players dont feel the same. They will be looking at the table and the fixtures and fancying their chances if they can get through the next month with a decent points haul.

 

For us to drop out of the top six if we should lose all our games in October, which won't happen by the way, then all the other teams within striking distance of the top six would all have to have an amazing month, can you really see that happening :?

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This from alpine :lol:

 

He's been on top form of late. This is my favourite of his recent offerings.

 

Hypo,

 

I have defended your perspective and your right to be a grade A negative c**t on here on the past, but you've outdone yourself on this thread.

 

Give it a rest with the f**king attention-seeking.

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For us to drop out of the top six if we should lose all our games in October, which won't happen by the way, then all the other teams within striking distance of the top six would all have to have an amazing month, can you really see that happening :?

 

Check who the OP is; it doesn't matter the likelihood of it all, simply that's its a possibility you can't rule out and therefore justification to scream like a 6 year old child about it.

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I agree with you completly. What are the ambitions this season though? Is NC seriously expecting promotion to the prem this season? If so then Jan is the time to buy so we are part built ready for the prem.

 

Does NC want to buy for the prem though? Or produce a few prem players from the youth system? If its the latter then we are still a season or so from being close enough to give it a try IMO. If the plan was push for play-offs this season with the current squad then next season push for promotion bringing in the best from the development squad only adding a few players here and there from external, then promotion this year would require a massive re-think.

 

I am not sure I can see NC spending huge in Jan when he wants the development squad to be given the chance to bolster the ranks. But I cant see him risking promotion by using players that are not ready either. Its a great problem to have though. No options involve hanging about in the Championship for long and all possible scenario's can be seen as positive moves in one way or another. It will be interesting to see what happens in Jan if we are still in touching distance of the top spots. Add to the team in a plan for the prem or let the current team finish the job?

 

The plan is to get to the premiership in a sustainable way as quickly as possible, the sooner the better. Why on earth would anyone think differently?

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I am not sure I can see NC spending huge in Jan when he wants the development squad to be given the chance to bolster the ranks. But I cant see him risking promotion by using players that are not ready either. Its a great problem to have though. No options involve hanging about in the Championship for long and all possible scenario's can be seen as positive moves in one way or another. It will be interesting to see what happens in Jan if we are still in touching distance of the top spots. Add to the team in a plan for the prem or let the current team finish the job?

 

I can't see that we'll do anything other than strengthen in January; particularly if we are still up around the top of the table and vying for promotion. We already know that NA wanted to bring in a long term solution up front (bid accepted for Sharp, turned down for Rodriguez) plus at CB. I also know that we're still in the market for another CB and that we had a multi-million pound bid turned down for a midfielder at the close of the window. I can see negotiations being ongoing all way until Decmber 31st whenCortese will break out the cheque book again.

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The plan is to get to the premiership in a sustainable way as quickly as possible, the sooner the better. Why on earth would anyone think differently?

 

Who said anyone was thinking differently?

 

Beginning of the season I would of thought the plan was to aim for top 6 and if we get promoted out of it? Bonus! Deal with that if and when it should happen. If not then the following season is all about aiming for the top 2 by which time we have had 2 transfer windows to build a team that can not only win the Championship but also hold its own in the prem.

 

Right now we are IMO exceeding expectations and come January if we are still in the same position we will be requiring a re-think on transfer activity to prepare for the prem straight away or continue with plan a and deal with getting a prem team at the end of the season. As both options are rushed and involve extra spend early I just find it interesting to see what happens. NC wont want to load up with expensive mercs and will want our development squad to produce 1st team players. The rushed approach will mean there is a gap between getting to the prem and the development squad producing the players needed. How will NC deal with it? hopefully we will get to find out.

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I can't see that we'll do anything other than strengthen in January; particularly if we are still up around the top of the table and vying for promotion. We already know that NA wanted to bring in a long term solution up front (bid accepted for Sharp, turned down for Rodriguez) plus at CB. I also know that we're still in the market for another CB and that we had a multi-million pound bid turned down for a midfielder at the close of the window. I can see negotiations being ongoing all way until Decmber 31st whenCortese will break out the cheque book again.

 

Yeah I can see these transfers being pushed for in Jan. They may be enough to build a promotion team but the names mentioned so far still dont look like a team that can hold its own in the prem IMO. If the original plan is for Promotion next season then these improvments followed by further next summer and the following Jan make perfect sense.

 

If we are still serious contenders in Jan does NC just make these improvments or look to also bring in those needed to build a prem team that can compete? Its worth doing the business in Jan so they have had time to settle in but making that many changes in one go could dent the rest of our season and trash a promotion push. So should January continue with plan a and strengthen as planned and worry about a prem team should we get promoted? Or show our intentions and really go for it?

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Yeah I can see these transfers being pushed for in Jan. They may be enough to build a promotion team but the names mentioned so far still dont look like a team that can hold its own in the prem IMO. If the original plan is for Promotion next season then these improvments followed by further next summer and the following Jan make perfect sense.

 

If we are still serious contenders in Jan does NC just make these improvments or look to also bring in those needed to build a prem team that can compete? Its worth doing the business in Jan so they have had time to settle in but making that many changes in one go could dent the rest of our season and trash a promotion push. So should January continue with plan a and strengthen as planned and worry about a prem team should we get promoted? Or show our intentions and really go for it?

 

I'd suggest the majority of the transfers we've brought in or tried and failed to bring in are with this season and the Premier League in mind. Cork, de Ridder, Fox I'd maintain are good enough to step up. Sharp, Rodriguez and other targets again, all good enough for a stint in the Pem (although I think we'd also need to also improve in som other areas of the team).

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I'd suggest the majority of the transfers we've brought in or tried and failed to bring in are with this season and the Premier League in mind. Cork, de Ridder, Fox I'd maintain are good enough to step up. Sharp, Rodriguez and other targets again, all good enough for a stint in the Pem (although I think we'd also need to also improve in som other areas of the team).

 

You could be right. We dont know the details on all the people we have been interested in so we could well of been trying to build for the prem already. We all acknowledge that we built a championship team while in league 1. is one season enough time to build a prem team while in the Championship though?

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Have to agree with some of what Alpine has stated; Alps has clearly stated that the title "Make or break" is probably not right and as other posters have indicated it is more a strong indicator of where we are in this league. having seen 7 of our league matches I can honestly say that I have never seen Saints play so well away from home in the 40 something years I have followed Saints - Ipswich was simply awesome, at Leicester we simply did not perform well enough in the 1st 25 minutes.

 

My concerns are:

our defence - Jaidi coming back is not the answer; he is too slow to play at this level. Seabourne, well no one knows when he will return so we need to strengthen at CB.

 

If Ricky picks up a knock, do we have cover; probably not atm. Barney is not fully fit, Connolly has gone off the boil and neither Barney nor DC will score at the same rate as Ricky. AL, whilst creating many, many chances has an extremely poor conversion rate of chances to goals……..

 

We will need to buy well in January, to try to improve the squad again, this time for the premiership.

 

Whilst I have doubts about the depth and cover in key areas, I have no doubt that we are as good as if not better than the vast majority of teams in this league. The next 4 games will indicate just how good we are: 8 points great return; 9 points even better, 10 points and we will be opening up a comfortable lead at the top; 12 points, well total and utter elation and probably top by 5 or 6 points. Where do I believe we will be – on 32 points top by 4. We will beat Derby, West Ham and Borro and draw at Reading.

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as others have said "4 games do not make a season", it's also worth noting that some of the other teams in the top 6 have other tough games coming up & I am sure there are not many in the league (other than the p*mpey suicide squad) that look forward to meeting us.

 

Boro & Derby meet on the 22nd. West Ham have to play Brighton (fair enough, but they are still in top 6) along with Blackpool & Leicester. It's a tough league & everyone will drop points.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well with Octobers league fixtures now completed lets review the month:

 

Watford (H) won 4-0

Derby (A) draw 1-1

West Ham (H) won 1-0

Reading (A) draw 1-1

Middlesbrough (H) won 3-0

 

So from what you might well consider to be some pretty tough league fixtures that makes 11 points gained out of a possible 15, or put another way 10 goals scored and only 2 conceded. For the perfectionist seeing our 'B' team getting beat at Chrystal Palace in the Carling Cup and failing to win any of our away games might be a tad disappointing I suppose, but all-things considered I'll take that as a satisfactory October thank you very much.

 

The only real downside I can see is that all this success is making me sound like a bit like NickG - now that really is a cause for concern .......

Edited by CHAPEL END CHARLIE
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Well with Octobers league fixtures now completed lets review the month:

 

Watford (H) won 4-0

Derby (A) draw 1-1

West Ham (H) won 1-0

Reading (A) draw 1-1

Middlesbrough (H) won 3-0

 

So from what you might well consider to be some pretty tough league fixtures that makes 11 points gained out of a possible 15, or put another way 10 goals scored and only 2 conceded. For the perfectionist seeing our 'B' team getting beat at Chrystal Palace in the Carling Cup and failing to win any of our away games might be a tad disappointing I suppose, but all-things considered I'll take that as a satisfactory October thank you very much.

 

The only real downside I can see is that all this success is making me sound like a bit like NickG - now that really is a cause for concern .......

 

you also failed to add the fact that Lallana was out for most of those games as well.

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A fit Lallana will make a massive difference, remember we went through nearly a whole month of tough fixtures without him and came out unbeaten in the league. A fit Adam will raise our game even more, and if we play as well as we have seen his season in every game, there's no reason why we can't win every game. Optimistic, yes. OTT? No. We're that good at the moment, there can't be one Saints fan on the planet who could have forseen this!

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It was definitely a "make" month. The only slight cloud on the horizon is our lack in depth in the squad, clearly illustrated against Palace.

 

I think we've got a great squad. The best squad of players we've had in years and years. We have players who can come in and do a great job, not just reserves who are deemed not good enough. (as illustrated with Butterfield yesterday)

 

We have more depth than most teams in this league. It's not worth reading anything out of that Palace game, I've forgotten about it already.

 

We probably need an extra striker up front for a bit of cover, but with Barnard making his way back we still have options there.

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I think we've got a great squad. The best squad of players we've had in years and years. We have players who can come in and do a great job, not just reserves who are deemed not good enough. (as illustrated with Butterfield yesterday)

 

We have more depth than most teams in this league. It's not worth reading anything out of that Palace game, I've forgotten about it already.

 

We probably need an extra striker up front for a bit of cover, but with Barnard making his way back we still have options there.

 

Exactly right. Our squad is very, very good, and we have genuine competition for almost every position on the pitch plus in Rickie Lambert and Adam Lallana a couple of players who every team in the division would love to have in their side.

 

The Palace game, if anything, just shows how deep our squad is. We made ten changes from the previous league game, and it was perhaps only our slight lack of options up front with Barnard not ready yet and Connolly rested that led to our ultimate demise. Palace themselves also changed things around a bit but, as a Palace supporting mate told me at the time, they just don't have the options available to change it all as much as we did and fielded a number of genuine first teamers.

 

Trying to find some negatives out of our current situation is just a bit daft.

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