david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 (edited) Having read the thoughtful and well-written item from colinjb on the opening side, with the warning call... ..don't get promoted too soon.. I really felt constrained to ask myself. WHO... is better-prepared than SFC for promotion this season ? Some other clubs presently " in contention " for a promotion spot aren't the most stable concerns off the field. Few can doubt that if we are still at the top came January that the Liebherr family wouldn't give the nod to an extra 40-50 million out of their coffee money to give us the edge in the transfer market and seal promotion in obedience to Marcus Liebherr's dying wish to see " his club " get to the top flight, and a recent survey suggested than SFC are " potentially"... because of Marcus' legacy ...in the top 5 richest clubs in the country. Certainly everything we read only goes to underline that we have the best Academy in the country, the best training facilities and staff. A competent Chairman and a manager who sounds enthusastic enough to win the Champions League next week ! ..so where's the problem? Surely the coaching staff and players have the right mindset for promotion, but still we read gloom and doom from some of the fan-base on this site almost every week...what's wrong with OUR mindset ? ..... ARE WE MORE AFRAID OF SUCCESS THAN WE ARE OF FAILURE ? Edited 8 October, 2011 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 we, as in fans or saints web..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Having read the thoughtful and well-written item from colinjb on the opening side, with the warning call... ..don't get promoted too soon.. I really felt constrained to ask myself. WHO... is better-prepared than SFC for promotion this season ? Some other clubs presently " in contention " for a promotion spot aren't the most stable concerns off the field. Few can doubt that if we are still at the top came January that the Liebherr family wouldn't give the nod to an extra 40-50 million out of their coffee money to give us the edge in the transfer market and seal promotion in obedience to Marcus Liebherr's dying wish to see " his club " get to the top flight, and a recent survey suggested than SFC are " potentially"... because of Marcus' legacy ...in the top 5 richest clubs in the country. Certainly everything we read only goes to underline that we have the best Academy in the country, the best training facilities and staff. A competent Chairman and a manager who sounds enthusastic enough to win the Champions League next week ! ..so where's the problem? Surely the coaching staff and players have the right mindset for promotion, but still we read gloom and doom from some of the fan-base on this site almost every week...what's wrong with OUR mindset ? ..... ARE WE MORE AFRAID OF SUCCESS THAN WE ARE OF FAILURE ? I'm afraid we're not going to get anywhere near that amount Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Few can doubt that if we are still at the top came January that the Liebherr family wouldn't give the nod to an extra 40-50 million out of their coffee money to give us the edge in the transfer market I'm not so sure about this bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stepgar Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 For me want us to go up and be ablet to compete. Not get thrashed week in week out. I want us to challenge for the european slots, getting to the final/s of cup competitions. I suppose a bit like Fulham. Getting in to the top four is very unlikely without rebuilding nearly the entire team. That does not happen overnight unless you are Man City. And look how long it has taken them to really start to create a push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 I'm not so sure about this bit OK ..let's reduce it to 15-20 million.. at least that might buy a few Prem.type players. Enough ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 OK ..let's reduce it to 15-20 million.. at least that might buy a few Prem.type players. Enough ? not even sure about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 For me want us to go up and be ablet to compete. Not get thrashed week in week out. I want us to challenge for the european slots, getting to the final/s of cup competitions. I suppose a bit like Fulham. Getting in to the top four is very unlikely without rebuilding nearly the entire team. That does not happen overnight unless you are Man City. And look how long it has taken them to really start to create a push. yes... but they didn't get there in the first season either, it requires patience. otherwise... we steadily sell off the up-and-coming talents from the Academy.. as we have done with Walcott, Bale and AOC..and see them play in the Premiership .. for some other club.. so why not us ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 not even sure about that OK ...should we get the £20 million by regularly selling off our best Academy talents instead.... dell days ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 OK ...should we get the £20 million by regularly selling off our best Academy talents instead.... dell days ? why are you saying that where has this £20m come from...? you may not like it, but on of the aims of an academy IS to make money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 why are you saying that where has this £20m come from...?you may not like it, but on of the aims of an academy IS to make money looking at the past fees we've received ..and the latest £12 million + for Alex, another couple of talents like that will reach £20 million without much difficulty. But are you saying we are running the Academy as an auction house without any desire to have them play in OUR first team? Let them play half-a season..then sell them off to the highest bidder to stabilise a CCC life style for the coming years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made in Southampton Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Some top quality trolling has got a very good question off topic into bickering over amounts of money. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain sensible Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Hmmm....interesting thought and a good subject for debate. The Club needs a steady stream of talent coming through the Acadamy ranks to balance the books, with regard to transfer sales revenue and also to stop potentially expensive forays in the transfer market, as has historically happened through previous Club administrations. I don't expect this to change. I can't see on promotion to the Premiership that the Club will be tabling bids for Barcelona's best talent. We will retain our status as the perennial underdogs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Some top quality trolling has got a very good question off topic into bickering over amounts of money. Sigh. Sadly, just what I was thinking, too. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the money part, but no-one who has read this far... has answered my question.. ARE WE MORE AFRAID OF SUCCESS THAN WE ARE OF FAILURE ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made in Southampton Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 In answer to your question. I think inevitably there will be some that are hesitant to the thought of going up. I think that's born out of years of failure and not wanting to go back there. It's a hard mindset to change and one that will only change over years and years of success. Take man utd as an example, that club oozes success because it's bred into the psych of everything it's about, from fans to the board. It hasn't been that way for them forever though. Success breeds success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Hmmm....interesting thought and a good subject for debate. The Club needs a steady stream of talent coming through the Acadamy ranks to balance the books, with regard to transfer sales revenue and also to stop potentially expensive forays in the transfer market, as has historically happened through previous Club administrations. I don't expect this to change. I can't see on promotion to the Premiership that the Club will be tabling bids for Barcelona's best talent. We will retain our status as the perennial underdogs! whilst I agree with your comments, I don't think we could be said to be guilty of expensive forays in to the transfer market in the past at least..since the 10 year old transfer record for Rory Delap is still our most expensive single outlay... the problem has been in allowing successive incompetens the key to the managers office and giving them a player budget that was unsuitable for the task. We were relegated to L1 on the back of the " Double Dutch " experiment where the " managers" concerned weren't given any budget when it was needed most. I think Nicola Cortese is more realistic about money than that. We have a (former?) bank manager as Chairman in this club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 [/b] Sadly, just what I was thinking, too. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the money part, but no-one who has read this far... has answered my question.. ARE WE MORE AFRAID OF SUCCESS THAN WE ARE OF FAILURE ? I'm not trolling, I'd like to get promoted this year but it will mean a massive rebuild in the prem. I don't think delldays is trolling either, suggesting we'll spend anywhere near 20 or 40 million is a bit out there though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 It depends who you mean by 'we'. judging by this site the fans haven't yet got the belief that the management chairman and players have got. the nfans are more afraid but fortunately its the chairman manager and players that count and YES they have success built into the bus-- and without the extra millions, we're doing very nicely thank you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Not sure about fear of failure or success, but over the last year and a half we have found ourselves in a comfort zone of expecting to win more games then we lose. If we go up to the Premiership that would become a thing of the past. Even a good season would probably at most bring 7th-8th place.... and that's if we REALLY sorted ourselves out at that level. A season like that would also bring just as many loses as wins, for many people would the 'fun' factor be gone? Would the relative 'success' not have the same positive effect as the highs of a promotion season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Personally the only aspect of sucess that concerns me is the price. Already we are paying too much PLUS the ticket tax. If we go up 40 pounds will become normal PLUS the booking fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain sensible Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 20 - 40 mill equates financial disaster in the event of immiediate relegation, and potentially a valid reason for the Liebherr family to walk away from all this football club owning malarkey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 (edited) In answer to your question. I think inevitably there will be some that are hesitant to the thought of going up. I think that's born out of years of failure and not wanting to go back there. It's a hard mindset to change and one that will only change over years and years of success. Take man utd as an example, that club oozes success because it's bred into the psych of everything it's about, from fans to the board. It hasn't been that way for them forever though. Success breeds success. Agreed ...but that didn't happen overnight either, and their manager is ain one-off situation. Despite all their enormous investment Chelsea's recent record is not so impressive. It's stretching credulity for me to picture us in the top four in the present Premiership set-up, as well. But... 27 seasons in the the Prem / Div.1 wasn't so bad... was it? Even in the period when Liverpool were champions 9 seasons out of 10, we still gave them a good game now and again. I think most people realise that the consistancy of the " top four " will always put them in " another league " in Europe, but I wouldn't mind another 27 years in the Prem. - even if we never made the top four / Europe quite so often. Edited 8 October, 2011 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWD Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 I wouldn't say I'm afraid of success, but I'm certainly wary of progressing too fast. I would be concerned if we starting splashing out millions on transfers and contracts to get to the PL as soon as possible (a la West Ham and Leicester). At the moment I think we're making steady progress and I'm delighted with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Not sure about fear of failure or success, but over the last year and a half we have found ourselves in a comfort zone of expecting to win more games then we lose. If we go up to the Premiership that would become a thing of the past. Even a good season would probably at most bring 7th-8th place.... and that's if we REALLY sorted ourselves out at that level. A season like that would also bring just as many loses as wins, for many people would the 'fun' factor be gone? Would the relative 'success' not have the same positive effect as the highs of a promotion season? Surely the prospect of not travelling to Doncaster or Millwall is satisfaction enough to want to get promoted -isn't it Colin? If you look at the present Premiership table, it's apparant that many of the teams have a similar rate of success / mediocrity as half of the clubs are covered by less than 5 points ! For me, you can stu** Europe, even Man.utd can't beat Barca, I'd still like some mid table Premiership football, and maybe winning a cup every 10 years. Being a big fish in a small lake (like CCC) isn't a definition of real success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain sensible Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 I would rather chuck a few million more towards the Academy. I'd employ a few of those Spanish Coaches and get a good bunch of kids ready to take the Premiership by storm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Some top quality trolling has got a very good question off topic into bickering over amounts of money. Sigh. The original poster said "few can doubt" the Leibherrs will give us £40 to £50 million to buy players if we are top in January, which was then downgraded to the equally fanciful £20m. How can challenging ridiculous amounts like that be trolling? If anyone is trolling, it is the original poster, who has a reputation of setting up utterly spurious arguments. We won't be spending anything like twenty million pounds in January. Nothing like it. How that can then be translated as Saints fans being "afraid of success" is just beyond me. Opening post: troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 20 - 40 mill equates financial disaster in the event of immiediate relegation, and potentially a valid reason for the Liebherr family to walk away from all this football club owning malarkey! I don't have the mindset of a family who are worth.. 3 billion anything but I have met one person who does and when they spend money ...sums like this are like our holiday money. The Liebherrs obviously don't have to worry about not getting any breakfast, and there is little else you can do with money of that magnitude ...except to spend some of it on things that make you happy. Ask Abrahamovic ! It seems to me I've read that Marcus had made ample money available to carry out his / Cortese's dream of Prem.Football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Surely the prospect of not travelling to Doncaster or Millwall is satisfaction enough to want to get promoted -isn't it Colin? If you look at the present Premiership table, it's apparant that many of the teams have a similar rate of success / mediocrity as half of the clubs are covered by less than 5 points ! For me, you can stu** Europe, even Man.utd can't beat Barca, I'd still like some mid table Premiership football, and maybe winning a cup every 10 years. Being a big fish in a small lake (like CCC) isn't a definition of real success. Don't get me wrong, the incentive is there to go up and yes, being a big fish in a small pond will never have the same allure for many but it's all about the relative feeling and atmosphere. Right now everything is overwhelmingly positive, a few home draws against Wigan and Blackburn could soon change that though. Winning a cup every ten years though? Considering the domination of competitions recently by the bigger names (only Leicester, Brum and the Blue Cancer down the road have won anything in the past 17 years outside of the champions league qualifiers) simply getting satisfaction out of mid-table or survival would become the norm again. And frankly, that isn't that satisfying.... the extra exposure we would get at the level and knowledge that Saints are more 'known' should be enough to hopefully compensate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 My take is that however we go up and when it will be different this time around. We are good going forward, combative in midfield but still creaky at the back. However we are not clinical enough - in the league above you have to take your chances, and we miss too many. OK we create a lot, but against better teams we won't create that much - take Man U (reserves) in the Cup last season. We will do better than many expect, but the problem for me isn't the team and spirit - it's about the pressure to bring in world class players for big money, and how Nigel deals with that. He has brought a kind of harmony to the whole club. Can you imagine the pressure from the fans and press to sign a big name? Big names means big money - and is that what Saints are all about? I would rather have a team giving 100% every week with honesty than have 5 Tevez's in the side on MEGA bucks and spitting dummies out, and be happy to sit on the bench and take their money. The problem for me is the fanbase in general expects big names - I only want a big name if he wants to play for us and be part of the team, and get on the bus. We are without doubt playing exciting and entertaining football - all I want from my team and to be fair in any League. The prize is The Premiership, but in all honesty our fanbase just want success. I can imagine going up and getting tonked a couple of times - watch the moaning minnies appear again. Life is too short to get too hung up on if and buts - just enjoy the ride of this season and se where we end up. The Premiership can wait - not sure Nicola can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain sensible Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Good point David....just hope the moneys not in a Greek Bank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 (edited) The original poster said "few can doubt" the Leibherrs will give us £40 to £50 million to buy players if we are top in January, which was then downgraded to the equally fanciful £20m. How can challenging ridiculous amounts like that be trolling? If anyone is trolling, it is the original poster, who has a reputation of setting up utterly spurious arguments. We won't be spending anything like twenty million pounds in January. Nothing like it. How that can then be translated as Saints fans being "afraid of success" is just beyond me. Opening post: troll. Yes CBFry, I have noticed that we don't often share the same viewpoint on everything. Maybe it was a little rash to sugggest SO MUCH , so I " reduced " the original sum of money to placate dell days who said it was too much, and you seem to think the same. That sort of money doesn't have to all go on players.. What about Cortese's musings on an enlarged SMS ? Do you think that if we are still near the top at New Year that we won't spend big to ensure promotion ? ..and what if we still get promoted ..without the need to send a small fortune as many other clubs do in those circumstances..will you still have the same opinion ? ....and you are yet another contributor who hasn't responded to the final question .. ARE WE ...( or you ) MORE AFRAID OF SUCCESS... THAN OF FAILURE ? Edited 8 October, 2011 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrent Of Abuse Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Not sure about fear of failure or success, but over the last year and a half we have found ourselves in a comfort zone of expecting to win more games then we lose. If we go up to the Premiership that would become a thing of the past. Even a good season would probably at most bring 7th-8th place.... and that's if we REALLY sorted ourselves out at that level. A season like that would also bring just as many loses as wins, for many people would the 'fun' factor be gone? Would the relative 'success' not have the same positive effect as the highs of a promotion season? Isn't this what we were told to expect this season? Wouldn't two big signings in January and another two or three in the summer radically change our club into one which could compete in the Premiership? I have to say that I am somewhat scared of success as it would change MY club but I'd prefer dabbling with success to being content with mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 My take is that however we go up and when it will be different this time around. We are good going forward, combative in midfield but still creaky at the back. However we are not clinical enough - in the league above you have to take your chances, and we miss too many. OK we create a lot, but against better teams we won't create that much - take Man U (reserves) in the Cup last season. We will do better than many expect, but the problem for me isn't the team and spirit - it's about the pressure to bring in world class players for big money, and how Nigel deals with that. He has brought a kind of harmony to the whole club. Can you imagine the pressure from the fans and press to sign a big name? Big names means big money - and is that what Saints are all about? I would rather have a team giving 100% every week with honesty than have 5 Tevez's in the side on MEGA bucks and spitting dummies out, and be happy to sit on the bench and take their money. The problem for me is the fanbase in general expects big names - I only want a big name if he wants to play for us and be part of the team, and get on the bus. We are without doubt playing exciting and entertaining football - all I want from my team and to be fair in any League. The prize is The Premiership, but in all honesty our fanbase just want success. I can imagine going up and getting tonked a couple of times - watch the moaning minnies appear again. Life is too short to get too hung up on if and buts - just enjoy the ride of this season and se where we end up. The Premiership can wait - not sure Nicola can![/QUOTE] Nice comments Yorkie, but I think Adkins' previous comments about the unity of the squad would mean that we wouldn't sign that type of player..if he didn't " fit-in ". ...and I don't think that Cortese is likely to cut his much quoted 5 year plan down to 18 months if we don't make it this season either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made in Southampton Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 The original poster said "few can doubt" the Leibherrs will give us £40 to £50 million to buy players if we are top in January, which was then downgraded to the equally fanciful £20m. How can challenging ridiculous amounts like that be trolling? If anyone is trolling, it is the original poster, who has a reputation of setting up utterly spurious arguments. We won't be spending anything like twenty million pounds in January. Nothing like it. How that can then be translated as Saints fans being "afraid of success" is just beyond me. Opening post: troll. It's trolling because the op asked whether or not we as fans were afraid of success more than failure. The fact that the next 5 posts were centred around an opinion based on the money to build a picture of the debate is typical of this forum. The fact that your even suggesting that the op is a troll because he's asked a really good question is a joke. And yet again a decent thread has tried to be ruined by a couple of idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Yes CBFry, I have noticed that we don't often share the same viewpoint on everything. Maybe it was a little rash to sugggest SO MUCH , so I " reduced " the original sum of money to placate dedll days who said it was too much. But you seem to think the same. Do you think that if we are still near the top at New Year that we won't spend big to ensure promotion ? ..and what if we still get promoted ..without the need to send a small fortune as many other clubs do in those circumstances..will you still have the same opinion ? ....and you are yet another contributor who hasn't responded to the final question .. ARE WE ...( or you ) MORE AFRAID OF SUCCESS... THAN OF FAILURE ? If I may be sold bold to say it is a pretty dopey question all in all. As far as Saints go, I am not afraid of anything and I have no idea why the only measure you are using for being afraid or not is a demand to spend loads and loads of money. If we get promoted then great, I completely supprt the Cortese plan to get promoted automatically this season. Never had any time for the rather sillly theory that it's better to stay down for another season to "get ready" for promotion. There is very little evidence of clubs gradually building and building to promotion. When it happens it is one big push in one season. I have no doubt we will spend some money in January - I think even more likely if we are fourth than if we are top, funnily enough. It will be no where near twenty million - the regime haven't spent that much for the entire time they have been here, and neither would we need to spend that much. No club that has been promoted from the second tier in the last decade have spent anywhere near that in the January window, so why on earth would we need to submit the squad to such pointless disruption? When we get promoted, let's see - I doubt we will be spending £50m. It's got nothing to do with fear, it's just sensible. I am not one of those who thinks we can or even should be aiming to get into the Champions League anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 It's trolling because the op asked whether or not we as fans were afraid of success more than failure. The fact that the next 5 posts were centred around an opinion based on the money to build a picture of the debate is typical of this forum. The fact that your even suggesting that the op is a troll because he's asked a really good question is a joke. And yet again a decent thread has tried to be ruined by a couple of idiots. But the question "are you afraid of success" was entirely based on a supposed fear of spending money, and the fear about us being finacially unstable. The entire first post is about money. Read it again. The entire first post is about money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 When we get promoted, let's see - I doubt we will be spending £50m. It's got nothing to do with fear, it's just sensible. I am not one of those who thinks we can or even should be aiming to get into the Champions League anyway. On that point we agree entirely. Although it wouldn't surprise me to see some plans for an expensive up-grade to SMS... I'm not fond of Euro football either, but I did enjoy Prem.football - even if we did struggle quite often. I think we have a better infrastructure, playing squad and youth scheme and more progressive management now than the dear " old boy network " who financed our previous promotions. For that reason alone I look forward to the challenge of the Prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintstr1 Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Off course we are not afraid of success , After all the years we spent in the top division watching some great football what is there to be afraid of, Hopefully our leaders have the Ambition that they state and get us back to the PL asap, This season is not to soon for me and if we spend a few bob in January to ensure the success great, as they say you have to speculate to accumalate. The only place to play your football is the premier league where the financial rewards are terrific even for the less glamourous clubs. COYR we can do this this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 [/b] Sadly, just what I was thinking, too. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the money part, but no-one who has read this far... has answered my question.. ARE WE MORE AFRAID OF SUCCESS THAN WE ARE OF FAILURE ? Not fear of success for me, more like a trepidation? I don't want us to go too far too soon but would relish the gradual build up of the team for the PL. It's difficult to make my point without sounding harsh on our current squad but, inevitably, we may have to lose some for us to stabilise in the PL. Having said that there are players that many felt would not step up to the Championship standard who clearly have done so. Can NA do it again, in the PL, with the same squad? That's the bugbear for me. I don't think we have enough depth, currently, at academy level (admirable though the members are) to enable us to stand alone and not spend. Having been close to extinction neither do I want us splashing massive amounts and attracting players who will not buy into NA's squad philosophy. I feel very comfortable in the Championship and I don't want us having to struggle against relegation from the PL every season, not a lack of ambition on my part but the trepidation at work. Neither do I want us having all the hassle involved being on the fringe of the top 6 in the PL BUT I do want Saints to succeed. Sword of Damocles really for me, hence the concerns. All said, I'll go with the flow because I love my team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Tbh, the relegation battles were pretty exciting times and we had some cracking players nay squads AND managers and chairman. Everything is relative. I accept though, that when people get on a rollercoaster, some can't wait to get off and.some can't.wait to get back on, some watch from the sidelines and never experience any of the 'thrills' but are equally happy that the rollercoaster exists.Colin may appreciate that more than others, Dreamland Colin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 It's trolling because the op asked whether or not we as fans were afraid of success more than failure. The fact that the next 5 posts were centred around an opinion based on the money to build a picture of the debate is typical of this forum. The fact that your even suggesting that the op is a troll because he's asked a really good question is a joke. And yet again a decent thread has tried to be ruined by a couple of idiots. not trolling at all....it was all money based fear..? claiming we should/could spend £50m I would eat my own feet if we spent £30m-50m in one season the prem without having a big sale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 But the question "are you afraid of success" was entirely based on a supposed fear of spending money, and the fear about us being finacially unstable. The entire first post is about money. Read it again. The entire first post is about money. well if you read it that way, actually it's not meant to be. BUT promotion means a certain amount of financial stability (and the fifth richest title was one that surprised me, too). This is not BIG money to people who have BIG money. Look at Man.City, Liverpool and Chelsea! Cortese must be a realist when it comes to money... and he can hardly talk about Premiership football and think we can do it on a shoestring. Surely the idea of building a half a team team from successful Academy players would save a lot, other clubs have done it with young talent, and making a club success isn't just about buying expensive players. My real point is that I seem to detect that some fans would be happier with a little success in a mediochre league like CCC, rather than see us playing against the best teams in the land, with a fear of losing games more often. I've been a fan for over 50 years, and half of that we were in lower leagues. Tough times or not, I preferred seeing is play in the top division ...and sometimes win against top teams. What we lacked then was the infrastructure and potential backing we have nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 I feel very comfortable in the Championship and I don't want us having to struggle against relegation from the PL every season. You can't stay comfortable in the championship though. To do that you'd have to finnish below the top 6 and above the bottom 3 every season and the novelty would soon wear off. Equally finishing in the play-offs and never winning them wouldn't be fun. The top flight is where you need to be. Even if it's fighting a relegation battle it's still the place to be because for a club like Saints that is success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 My real point is that I seem to detect that some fans would be happier with a little success in a mediochre league like CCC, rather than see us playing against the best teams in the land, with a fear of losing games more often. I think you're talking about a miniscule number fans here. All I can see are lunatics saying we desperately need a 50,000 seater stadium for when we're in the Champion's League "regularly". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Where on earth do people pick these totally deluded amounts of money from? £40m-£50m in January? That's up there with the "Torres wouldn't score in L1". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Maybe years of the fan-base being conditioned to SFC grasping defeat from the jaws of victory and turning silk purses into sow's ears has something to do with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 I think you're talking about a miniscule number fans here. All I can see are lunatics saying we desperately need a 50,000 seater stadium for when we're in the Champion's League "regularly". AGREED. I can't see us anywhere near filling a 50,000 stadium, without a catchment area like Tyneside or Liverpool, but when we were in Prem at SMS nearly all home games were up around 30K, and maybe there would have been more, IF... However, I think an upgrade to around 40K would be a worthwhile investment - even without any sort of extra Euro interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Where on earth do people pick these totally deluded amounts of money from? £40m-£50m in January? That's up there with the "Torres wouldn't score in L1". Cortese has said that if we get into the prem, are playing champs league football, and have a 50k stadium he'd pay 100k a week wages. This to me sounds like the plan or why would he say it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Have to say that there's not much in the opening post I agree with, but that's football for you. Mnay Saints fans have been brought up on "relative success". Those in the 60's saw promotion to the top flight, holding our own and games in Europe. The 70's brought an FA Cup success, Wembley appearances and repromotion (how I fccking hate that Lowe word LOL). the 80's saw semi finals, Europe, runners up in the league (The Daily Express 5-a-side winners LOL). From then up until 2005, whilst not winning anything, we were better placed than 70/80 of the teams in the Football League plying out trade in the top league in the world (the place where every team aspires to be). It's only been the last 5 or so years that we have been "relatively" poor and even then that is somewhat playing down the recent success. So no, I don't see any reason to suggest that we are, or might be, afraid of success. Looking at specifics of the post there's no way we'll get £50m on promotion. I don't think we have the best academy in the country (yes it's great, but there are others that are better out there, after all where did all those England & England U21 players come from, we only produced one of them?). We haven't, nor will we have, the best training facilities out there (they're good and there will be even better, but have a look around and you will see others much better than what is proposed for us). We don't have the best staff (once again they're relatively good and Adkins has done well, but it's a bit of a stretch to suggest they are the best). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Where on earth do people pick these totally deluded amounts of money from?£40m-£50m in January? That's up there with the "Torres wouldn't score in L1". It was based on the (surprise to me) info. in a survey that stated Marcus Liebherrs estate was worth £3 BILLION. If we were that close to ensuring promotion,then money would surely be spent in the "window" and then in the summer break. ...although in all honesty I don't think we'd ever spend that sort of money, on transfers but our salary bill would certainly be much larger than it is now. It's not just about buying expensive players - you have to pay them, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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