River Itchen frontage

[um pahars]

My pet hates with regards planning etc (and not many of them are cash rich).

 

1) Around by The Duke of Wellington and the Merchants House there are 2 or 3 blocks of awful flats built over the historic vaults and totally at odds with the local area. Why????

 

2) More should be made of the Weigh House and the other ruined houses & vaults in the area behind la Regatta (Porters Lane I think)

 

3) The walls alongside the Bowling Green have been blocked in by some pretty poor flats. That was a pretty recent decision

 

4) The walls either side of the Bargate. Who agreed to knock them down??

 

5) Hannover Buildings and then the Bargate Centre. Who agreed to block in the Town Walls there.

 

6) Who decided to build that really large tower block (Castle House??) over the remains of the old castle.

 

Any other City would have gone mad for such walls and I can't imagine York knocking down or blocking large parts down. They should have been traded off.

[jam]

My pet hates with regards planning etc (and not many of them are cash rich).

 

1) Around by The Duke of Wellington and the Merchants House there are 2 or 3 blocks of awful flats built over the historic vaults and totally at odds with the local area. Why????

 

2) More should be made of the Weigh House and the other ruined houses & vaults in the area behind la Regatta (Porters Lane I think)

 

3) The walls alongside the Bowling Green have been blocked in by some pretty poor flats. That was a pretty recent decision

 

4) The walls either side of the Bargate. Who agreed to knock them down??

 

5) Hannover Buildings and then the Bargate Centre. Who agreed to block in the Town Walls there.

 

6) Who decided to build that really large tower block (Castle House??) over the remains of the old castle.

 

Any other City would have gone mad for such walls and I can't imagine York knocking down or blocking large parts down. They should have been traded off.

 

My personal favourite is the knocked through wall to allow Castle Way through. If I recall correctly it was done post war.

 

I actually quite like Castle House though. Much better than that godawful eighties redbrick housing alongside Tudor House. I think the Castle was knocked down in the 17th or 18th Century and the hill flattened. I guess the Southampton '**** it' attitude to history has been around for quite a while...

[um pahars]

My personal favourite is the knocked through wall to allow Castle Way through. If I recall correctly it was done post war.

 

I actually quite like Castle House though. Much better than that godawful eighties redbrick housing alongside Tudor House. I think the Castle was knocked down in the 17th or 18th Century and the hill flattened. I guess the Southampton '**** it' attitude to history has been around for quite a while...

 

I agree about the Castle Lane bit!!!! Have a degree of sympathy for the red brick housing (think it's OAP housing) by Tudor House as there was at least an attempt to try and blend it in with regards style wise. You're right in that most of the Castle (mote & Bailey) disappeared quite a while ago, but there was still a bit of a legacy, plus that tower block is just so out of place!!!!

[hamster]

What was at Ocean Village prior to development?

[spyinthesky]

It was the original part of the (Old or Eastern)Docks built from the 1840's

It was home for a number of trades, including the Railway Ferries to the Channel isles and France and then was taken over by the Thoresen & P&O Ferries to Le havre & Cherbourg before they left for Portsmouth in the 1970's.

After that, as commercial shipping became bigger, the area was sold off by the port to create Ocean Village.

[hamster]

Cheers spyman. Am I right in thinking that there is a D-Day plaque down there somewhere too? What's the significance of that?

[um pahars]

It was the original part of the (Old or Eastern)Docks built from the 1840's

It was home for a number of trades, including the Railway Ferries to the Channel isles and France and then was taken over by the Thoresen & P&O Ferries to Le havre & Cherbourg before they left for Portsmouth in the 1970's.

After that, as commercial shipping became bigger, the area was sold off by the port to create Ocean Village.

 

Ocean Village is built around Princess Alexandria Dock 1842 (also called the Outer Dock) and as Spy has mentioned they were really last used as a base for Townsend Thoresen and P&O cross channel ferries (started about mid 60s to mid 80s).

 

It was linked to a non tidal dock called the Inner Dock 1851 which was where the new offices, Harbour Lights and that new multi storey car park are nowadays.

 

Both docks were originally mainly used for fruit (hence Banana Wharf bar/restaurant), grain, timber as well as early passenger traffic. There was also a section where coal barges would dock. On the South side of the Outer Dock (where my pad is) there were 4 dry docks which were a hub of maintenance etc.

 

Both these docks were used for the Crimean, First and Second World Wars and the plaques are on the last remains of the warehouse that sit next to the new Tescos (between the coffee shop and the Pink Beauty place) record that the Docks played host to transporting men and equipment on D-Day and the months follwoing.

 

 

Just remembered this website is always good for docks info:

 

http://www.plimsoll.org/Southampton/TheDocks/EasternDocks/InnerDock/InnerDock1.asp

Edited 10 October, 2011 by um pahars

[OVER THE HILL]

I found this article on the Echo's website and although it is 4 years old nothing much has changed apart from an anchor in the high st !

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/1614814.An_Aussie_in_Southampton_in_search_of_the_wow_factor______/

[spyinthesky]

Ocean Village is built around Princess Alexandria Dock 1842 (also called the Outer Dock) and as Spy has mentioned they were really last used as a base for Townsend Thoresen and P&O cross channel ferries (started about mid 60s to mid 80s).

 

It was linked to a non tidal dock called the Inner Dock 1851 which was where the new offices, Harbour Lights and that new multi storey car park are nowadays.

 

Both docks were originally mainly used for fruit (hence Banana Wharf bar/restaurant), grain, timber as well as early passenger traffic. There was also a section where coal barges would dock. On the South side of the Outer Dock (where my pad is) there were 4 dry docks which were a hub of maintenance etc.

 

Both these docks were used for the Crimean, First and Second World Wars and the plaques are on the last remains of the warehouse that sit next to the new Tescos (between the coffee shop and the Pink Beauty place) record that the Docks played host to transporting men and equipment on D-Day and the months follwoing.

 

 

Just remembered this website is always good for docks info:

 

http://www.plimsoll.org/Southampton/TheDocks/EasternDocks/InnerDock/InnerDock1.asp

 

Um - all this is good stuff apart from the fruit handling reference

Banana handling did not come to Soton until the 1950's and then used a purpose built facility at Berths 25 for inward Elders & Fyffes bananas (still within the Port boundary by the Windblade operation)) and 26/7 for export goods and passengers to the West Indies (now part of the NERC University development)

Banana Wharf is not where bananas were handled!!

The P&O Line started operations from what is now Ocean village in 1842 (note the company will celebrate the 170th anniversary of this next July by having all 7 of their cruise ships in port)

P&O transported 90,000 men and approx 18,000 horses to the Crimea in 1854

The forerunner of the Union Castle Line also used these berths

The Inner Dock, filled in during the mid 60's to provide marshalling space for the new Ferry services to France, was bounded by large warehouses, one of which was for grain and others for bonded goods. Most were lost during the war or subsequently demolished, but one remains adjacent to the cinema

There also used to be an animal lairage down where Chiquitos is now and, in the early days, cattle and shhep were driven directly down the High Street to the lairage to be transferred aboard ship or accommodated overnight in pens below Central Bridge (now a small industrial estate and flats) which was also an abattoir

Soton was the major embarkation port for troops going out to the Crimea plus WW1 & 2

Apart from the plaque on what was the Cross Channel Booking Office (near Tesco Express) there is another by Dock gate 4 in recognition of the 'Old Contemptibles'

A great reference book for all this is 'A Pictorial History of Soton Docks' by Bert Moody a very knowlegable local historian

[um pahars]

Um - all this is good stuff apart from the fruit handling reference

Banana handling did not come to Soton until the 1950's and then used a purpose built facility at Berths 25 for inward Elders & Fyffes bananas (still within the Port boundary by the Windblade operation)) and 26/7 for export goods and passengers to the West Indies (now part of the NERC University development)

 

Berths 25+ in the Empress Dock were definitely Fyffes base after they moved from oop north (from Liverpool & even Bristol I think) after the war (I think the banana trade then moved to the Western Docks 101+), but berths 14-16 in The now defucnt Inner Dock definitely handled fruit including bananas and there was even a fruit auction room built alongside the docks.

Edited 11 October, 2011 by um pahars

[spyinthesky]

Um

Interesting about berths 14-16

I have never heard about bananas being imported in any quantity before

at this location.

Do you have any source pl?

In my youth I used to know the Manager of the Elders & Fyffes operation at 25 berth and am sure he said that bananas did not come into the Uk in any volume until after WW2

The banana trade at 101 berth was Geest which came from Barry in the 1990's and the building was transformed into the City cruise terminal when geest went down to Pompey

[um pahars]

Um

Interesting about berths 14-16

I have never heard about bananas being imported in any quantity before

at this location.

Do you have any source pl?

In my youth I used to know the Manager of the Elders & Fyffes operation at 25 berth and am sure he said that bananas did not come into the Uk in any volume until after WW2

The banana trade at 101 berth was Geest which came from Barry in the 1990's and the building was transformed into the City cruise terminal when geest went down to Pompey

 

I'll try and find the info regarding fruit at th e Inner Docks (think it was on an Ocean Village history page).

 

Bananas were definitely being brought here in decent numbers pre WWII as there is an article somewhere saying how half of Fyffes fleet was sunk during WWII. I'm sure they were mainly operating out of Manchester, Liverpool and Bristol/Avonmouth, but there was a definite reference to Soton somewhere.

 

Just found one of the links (mentions fruuit in 14/15 but not specifically bananas)

 

http://www.oceanvillagesouthampton.com/about/the-history-of-ocean-village/

 

Page 50/51 mentions the UK banana trade with reference to Southampton in there as well.

 

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dDqYx0j2ipYC&pg=PA52&lpg=PA52&dq=avonmouth+banana+imports&source=bl&ots=QIFgTfiPyg&sig=eAIkX3_7XjSRacUyRFQ5svLkDwA&hl=en&ei=Ap2UTpTCB4y1hAfT-5DaBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=avonmouth%20banana%20imports&f=false

[spyinthesky]

I'll try and find the info regarding fruit at th e Inner Docks (think it was on an Ocean Village history page).

 

Bananas were definitely being brought here in decent numbers pre WWII as there is an article somewhere saying how half of Fyffes fleet was sunk during WWII. I'm sure they were mainly operating out of Manchester, Liverpool and Bristol/Avonmouth, but there was a definite reference to Soton somewhere.

 

Um

My man's info was wrong (or time has taken its toll with my recollection)

Looking at a few useful internet sites it appears bananas were imported into the Uk from 1902 and in larger volumes in the 1930's when modern refridgerated ships were available. I think the possible mistake involved the fact that no bananas were available between 1939 & 1945 so when supplies recommenced post war, it was a big thing especially for war time kids who had never tasted one.

Fyffes mainly operated thro Avonmouth and Garston (Liverpool) until the 1960's when the brand new banana facility was opened at 25 berth. A good deal of the bananas were loaded direct into rail wagons from overhead belts directly loaded from the ships hold. Understand that at first the bananas may have arrived as stems then later all the bananas were delivered in cartons. 25 berth was a haven for exotic spiders and the dockers had to tie string round the bottom of the trousers to prevent unauthorised access.

 

Just found one of the links (mentions fruuit in 14/15 but not specifically bananas)

 

http://www.oceanvillagesouthampton.com/about/the-history-of-ocean-village/

 

Page 50/51 mentions the UK banana trade with reference to Southampton in there as well.

 

Bearing in mind the Union ships made an early start in Soton, the fruit handled in the Inner Dock could well have emanated from South Africa

[um pahars]

Cheers spyman. Am I right in thinking that there is a D-Day plaque down there somewhere too? What's the significance of that?

 

Just took a stroll over to Tesco's and snapped these for ya:

 

http://www.yfrog.com/o0q36luj

 

http://www.yfrog.com/nzjxcyij

[Crab Lungs]

I found this article on the Echo's website and although it is 4 years old nothing much has changed apart from an anchor in the high st !

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/1614814.An_Aussie_in_Southampton_in_search_of_the_wow_factor______/

 

Surprisingly upbeat for such a monstrosity of a city. Southampton City Council sold the cities soul a long, long time ago... such a shame.

 

Anyone for a young professionals flat?

[buctootim]

I'll try and find the info regarding fruit at th e Inner Docks (think it was on an Ocean Village history page).

 

Bananas were definitely being brought here in decent numbers pre WWII as there is an article somewhere saying how half of Fyffes fleet was sunk during WWII. I'm sure they were mainly operating out of Manchester, Liverpool and Bristol/Avonmouth, but there was a definite reference to Soton somewhere.

 

Um

My man's info was wrong (or time has taken its toll with my recollection)

Looking at a few useful internet sites it appears bananas were imported into the Uk from 1902 and in larger volumes in the 1930's when modern refridgerated ships were available. I think the possible mistake involved the fact that no bananas were available between 1939 & 1945 so when supplies recommenced post war, it was a big thing especially for war time kids who had never tasted one.

Fyffes mainly operated thro Avonmouth and Garston (Liverpool) until the 1960's when the brand new banana facility was opened at 25 berth. A good deal of the bananas were loaded direct into rail wagons from overhead belts directly loaded from the ships hold. Understand that at first the bananas may have arrived as stems then later all the bananas were delivered in cartons. 25 berth was a haven for exotic spiders and the dockers had to tie string round the bottom of the trousers to prevent unauthorised access.

 

Just found one of the links (mentions fruuit in 14/15 but not specifically bananas)

 

http://www.oceanvillagesouthampton.com/about/the-history-of-ocean-village/

 

Page 50/51 mentions the UK banana trade with reference to Southampton in there as well.

 

Bearing in mind the Union ships made an early start in Soton, the fruit handled in the Inner Dock could well have emanated from South Africa

,.,

Edited 14 October, 2011 by buctootim