City sizes and support

[djharvey]

You need to appreciate that selling out does not mean demand for more tickets.

 

Don't be so stupid! Selling out means that there was a demand for more tickets for that game, whether it be another 25 or 2500.

[Matthew Le God]

Waiting lists for season tickets, fans complaining they cant get in, away teams demanding more seats, an upturn in economic conditions, reassurance that the seats would pay for themselves within a few years. The obvious really.

 

Waiting lists

 

Sunderland had 10k season ticket holder and no waiting list before moving to a 42k (later expanded to 49k) Stadium of Light.

 

They were also struggling in the years leading up to the move from selling out a 22k Roker Park.

 

Waiting lists as a condition is a nonsense.

 

Fans complaining they cant get in

 

We had that last time in the Premier League. Even had it in League One against Walsall (yes was a promotion party but essentially was still a 3rd tier fixture). Will possibly even have it later this season vs Pompey and if a promotion campaign heats up.

 

Match tickets selling out quick

 

Happened last time Saints were in the Premier League for a large number of fixtures.

 

Upturn in economic conditions

 

Stadium improvements are exempt from new financial regulations and now in some ways is a good time to expand if the Liebherr's have the capital, as construction is cheaper then when the world economy recovers.

 

Away teams wanting more tickets

 

Do you not think Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Man City, Newcastle, Man Utd, Liverpool, Everton, Aston Villa etc would love to bring more than 3,000 fans to St Mary's and could quite easily do that.

Edited 4 October, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[CB Fry]

Waiting lists

 

Sunderland had 10k season ticket holder and no waiting list before moving to a 42k (later expanded to 49k) Stadium of Light.

 

They were also struggling in the years leading up to the move from selling out a 22k Roker Park.

 

Waiting lists as a condition is a nonsense.

 

 

If Sunderland had our capacity in this division, they'd pretty much fill it. Why don't we. If you really think there are 20,000 additional fans desperate to see us play Wigan in the Premier League why can't even a quarter of that number turn up for a match against Birmingham, a Premier League team only last season?

 

As for away teams want more tickets that's just utter garbage. Why on earth are we building a bigger stadium to allow more Mancs or Scousers to take over the atmosphere in a too big stadium full of plastic Saints "fans" only interested in the Premier League football.

 

Stick to the computer games, you absolute freak.

Edited 4 October, 2011 by CB Fry

[egg]

Waiting lists

 

Sunderland had 10k season ticket holder and no waiting list before moving to a 42k (later expanded to 49k) Stadium of Light.

 

They were also struggling in the years leading up to the move from selling out a 22k Roker Park.

 

Waiting lists as a condition is a nonsense.

 

Fans complaining they cant get in

 

We had that last time in the Premier League. Even had it in League One against Walsall (yes was a promotion party but essentially was still a 3rd tier fixture). Will possibly even have it later this season vs Pompey and if a promotion campaign heats up.

 

Match tickets selling out quick

 

Happened last time Saints were in the Premier LEague for a number of fixtures.

 

Upturn in economic conditions

 

Stadium improvements are exempt from new financial regulations and now in some ways is a good time to expand if the Liebherr's have the capital, as construction is cheaper then when the world economy recovers.

 

Away teams wanting more tickets

 

Do you not think Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Man City, Newcastle, Man Utd, Liverpool etc would love to bring more than 3,000 fans to St Mary's and could quite easily do that.

 

That is all boll ox. None of it addresses the fact that there is no evidence of substantial demand for tickets on a regular basis, or whether the outlay would reap a return.

 

We disagree, so reply all you like but I can't be arsed to keep trying to help you understand the bloody obvious.

[Matthew Le God]

If Sunderland had our capacity in this division, they'd pretty much fill it.

 

So why in 1995/96 when they won the 2nd tier did they average 17,504 in a 22,000 stadium?

 

As for away teams want more tickets that's just utter garbage. Why on earth are we building a bigger stadium to allow more Mancs or Scousers to take over the atmosphere in a too big stadium full of plastic Saints "fans" only interested in the Premier League football.

 

So then why do many of the teams I listed offer many away teams more than 3,000? It is inevitable a larger stadium leads to more away fans for some games and more "plastic" home fans.

 

Stick to the computer games, you absolute freak.

 

Ah...the petty insults return.

Edited 4 October, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[Matthew Le God]

That is all boll ox. None of it addresses the fact that there is no evidence of substantial demand for tickets on a regular basis, or whether the outlay would reap a return.

 

We disagree, so reply all you like but I can't be arsed to keep trying to help you understand the bloody obvious.

 

It answers all of your points, and you haven't tried to make a rebuttal of any of them. Plus, how can you have evidence of more than 32k averages in a 32k stadium?

[sfc4prem]

If Sunderland had our capacity in this division, they'd pretty much fill it. Why don't we. If you really think there are 20,000 additional fans desperate to see us play Wigan in the Premier League why can't even a quarter of that number turn up for a match against Birmingham, a Premier League team only last season?

 

As for away teams want more tickets that's just utter garbage. Why on earth are we building a bigger stadium to allow more Mancs or Scousers to take over the atmosphere in a too big stadium full of plastic Saints "fans" only interested in the Premier League football.

 

Stick to the computer games, you absolute freak.

 

Bit harsh???

[CB Fry]

So why in 1995/96 when they won the 2nd tier did they average 17,504 in a 22,000 stadium?

 

 

 

So then why do many of the teams I listed offer many away teams more than 3,000? It is inevitable a larger stadium leads to more away fans for some games and more "plastic" home fans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who cares about 1996 - this was before their new ground, ie comparable to our Dell days. In more recent times they've had high twenty averages in the Championship and you know it. They've had their new stadium effect, we've had ours. Sunderland would more or less fill SMS in the second tier, we get absolutely nowhere near.

 

The best evidence for us out growing our ground would be massive gates in the second tier. We're not getting that, we're not outgrowing our ground. And yes, of course more plastics come when clubs are in the Premier League - there's about 8,000 of them currently not coming to SMS now. It's foolish to think that number is 20,000 or even 25,000. An Ewood Park full of new fans suddenly turning up for a game against Stoke or Wigan?

 

And so what if other clubs have more away fans? Why extend a ground just to get more away fans in, especially when there is no evidence we need to extend. Little note for you - Sunderland's attendance over a decade ago is not evidence that Southampton Football Club need a bigger stadium.

 

Real life is very different to computer games.

Edited 5 October, 2011 by CB Fry

[whelk]

Paris St Germain - one team in Paris (pop:10mill+) Really no excuse for being crap.

Got Qatar billions now as well so must change

[whelk]

Oh and sure some anorak will point out there is also:

Paris FC

Maccabi Paris

RCF Paris

Stade Français Paris

 

But none even close to Ligue 1

[stevy777_x]

Stade Français Paris is a rugby team!

[Window Cleaner]

Paris St Germain - one team in Paris (pop:10mill+) Really no excuse for being crap.

Got Qatar billions now as well so must change

 

the French have a vilain tendancy to confuse politics with sport,in fact they have a tendancy to confuse politics with everything, life is just one long electoral campaign for some minor(or major) assembly or other.So when PSG could have moved to the SDF Paris City Council got involved to keep them at the Parc des Princes,this cuts down maximum gate size and accessibility.Plus these last wilderness years where they had something akin to Lowe/Wilde/Crouch running them in the guise of Colony Capital alienated fans and the team wasn't much better than ours under the Dutchmen.When they're up and running at full power again the parc will sell out for every home game,unfortunately crowd trouble will probably rear it's ugly head again and ST policy will come under review once again. For the time being old ST holders have no fixed seat because the old board is restricted by public order rulings which followed the death of a supporter after an inter supporters group rix at a game.

 

PSG should not be used as an example for any stats right now,it's a one off situation.

[Thedelldays]

Paris St Germain - one team in Paris (pop:10mill+) Really no excuse for being crap.

Got Qatar billions now as well so must change

true..like london having 1 team

[Window Cleaner]

Stade Français Paris is a rugby team!

 

And a very bad one at that,

[PokingFun]

Saints are currently averaging 23,941 in the Championship, which is very good and is currently only behind West Ham and Derby County. It is likely to climb higher than that after boxing day and New Years home games, last home game, Pompey, Brighton, West Ham etc fixtures.

 

Saints are currently averaging more than Leeds United, Leicester City and Nottingham Forest. All of which are big clubs, Leeds have a 40k stadium themselves.

 

Once in the Premier League the season ticket holders are likely to return to similar levels and a 7k leap and the demand will also increase.

 

Saints are averaging 24k in NPC now which is decent but looking at comparable clubs that have been promoted in previous seasons shows some interesting reading once you compare their NPC average with their following season or current PL average. Stats are as follows:

 

Norwich - 26,200 from 25,400 - probably capacity;

QPR - 15,700 from 16,600 - probably capacity;

Swansea - 19,800 from 15,500 (+27.7%)

Newcastle - 44,800 from 43,400 - not sure if this is capacity but thought Newcastle had 50k + capacity so therefore a very big club that has shown no real increase;

West Brom - 24,200 from 22,200 (+9%);

Blackpool - 15,800 from 8,600 (+83.7%);

Wolves - 24,000 from 24,200 - virtually same;

Brum - 25,461 from 19,000 (+34%);

Burnley - 20,653 from 13,100 (+57.6%).

 

In conclusion, barring the really small sides where the novelty value is quite big and possibly a once a lifetime achievement, then these statistics suggest that an uplift of anywhere between 10% and 35% feels about right. If Saints were to average 25,000 to 26,000 this season then it suggests that attendances in the premier league will be somewhere between 27,500 and 35,100 (if we had a big enough stadium in theory).

 

My conclusion is that a stadium of 32,500 is fine for now with prices being optimised to fill it most weeks but an aspiration to achieve 40,000 through success on the pitch appears realistic but even then very ambitious when you consider Newcastle are doing alright in the PL and still only achieving similar figures to their last NPC season.

 

50k would only ever get filled if Markus's family decided to go for all out glory a la Chelsea and Man City and bought the very best players to the club which would attract people from out of area who had the wish to glory hunt and / or entertain corporate clients. I cannot really see that happening as they do not appear to have that kind of mentality.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Something I have not noticed mentioned so far but is really key is the the price of the tickets.

 

If we had 50,000 seats to sell for every game the tickets policy would have to be really sensible. If the lowest price ticket was around £15 and there was a huge family section were kids accompanied by an adult got in for £1, then it could work. Long term these kids would grow up to be saints fans, keep coming and help keep the 50k ground full. It would also help reduce the glory hunter fans defecting to Chelsea, Man Utd etc

[SimonC]

Being the resident Bournemouth lurker...can I just say that our (AFCB's) home crowds get shown up for how bad they are when the 'local population/urban areas' stats get aired....and does show Pompey's to be not as great as always thought (although with them, its generally how fervent the fans actually turning up are)

 

Reasons have been well debated on our board...the usual transient population/Premiership/too midde class reasons come out. You are benefitting from the long haul in the top division through most of the last 40 years - really helps to build up a good base (and too many in BH areas too LOL!!)

[Graffito]

Saints are averaging 24k in NPC now which is decent but looking at comparable clubs that have been promoted in previous seasons shows some interesting reading once you compare their NPC average with their following season or current PL average. Stats are as follows:

 

Norwich - 26,200 from 25,400 - probably capacity;

QPR - 15,700 from 16,600 - probably capacity;

Swansea - 19,800 from 15,500 (+27.7%)

Newcastle - 44,800 from 43,400 - not sure if this is capacity but thought Newcastle had 50k + capacity so therefore a very big club that has shown no real increase;

West Brom - 24,200 from 22,200 (+9%);

Blackpool - 15,800 from 8,600 (+83.7%);

Wolves - 24,000 from 24,200 - virtually same;

Brum - 25,461 from 19,000 (+34%);

Burnley - 20,653 from 13,100 (+57.6%).

 

In conclusion, barring the really small sides where the novelty value is quite big and possibly a once a lifetime achievement, then these statistics suggest that an uplift of anywhere between 10% and 35% feels about right. If Saints were to average 25,000 to 26,000 this season then it suggests that attendances in the premier league will be somewhere between 27,500 and 35,100 (if we had a big enough stadium in theory).

 

My conclusion is that a stadium of 32,500 is fine for now with prices being optimised to fill it most weeks but an aspiration to achieve 40,000 through success on the pitch appears realistic but even then very ambitious when you consider Newcastle are doing alright in the PL and still only achieving similar figures to their last NPC season.

 

50k would only ever get filled if Markus's family decided to go for all out glory a la Chelsea and Man City and bought the very best players to the club which would attract people from out of area who had the wish to glory hunt and / or entertain corporate clients. I cannot really see that happening as they do not appear to have that kind of mentality.

 

Good points, well argued. And an increase in capacity to 40k may be a reasonable figure bur even that is a significant risk.

[Matthew Le God]

Saints are averaging 24k in NPC now which is decent but looking at comparable clubs that have been promoted in previous seasons shows some interesting reading once you compare their NPC average with their following season or current PL average. Stats are as follows:

 

Norwich - 26,200 from 25,400 - probably capacity;

QPR - 15,700 from 16,600 - probably capacity;

Swansea - 19,800 from 15,500 (+27.7%)

Newcastle - 44,800 from 43,400 - not sure if this is capacity but thought Newcastle had 50k + capacity so therefore a very big club that has shown no real increase;

West Brom - 24,200 from 22,200 (+9%);

Blackpool - 15,800 from 8,600 (+83.7%);

Wolves - 24,000 from 24,200 - virtually same;

Brum - 25,461 from 19,000 (+34%);

Burnley - 20,653 from 13,100 (+57.6%).

 

In conclusion, barring the really small sides where the novelty value is quite big and possibly a once a lifetime achievement, then these statistics suggest that an uplift of anywhere between 10% and 35% feels about right. If Saints were to average 25,000 to 26,000 this season then it suggests that attendances in the premier league will be somewhere between 27,500 and 35,100 (if we had a big enough stadium in theory).

 

My conclusion is that a stadium of 32,500 is fine for now with prices being optimised to fill it most weeks but an aspiration to achieve 40,000 through success on the pitch appears realistic but even then very ambitious when you consider Newcastle are doing alright in the PL and still only achieving similar figures to their last NPC season.

 

50k would only ever get filled if Markus's family decided to go for all out glory a la Chelsea and Man City and bought the very best players to the club which would attract people from out of area who had the wish to glory hunt and / or entertain corporate clients. I cannot really see that happening as they do not appear to have that kind of mentality.

 

You've lost me as to how those teams are comparable or the stats are relevant.

 

Most are smaller clubs and have seen huge rises, those that haven't seen large rises are restricted by stadium capacity.

 

I wonder what evidence Wolves based their decision to increase capacity to 36k, and have future plans for 38k and then 50k....

 

 

They were going ahead with this regardless of relegation last season.

[moonraker]

The decision to build additional seating capacity is very difficult and can not be based simply on hard evidence, its chicken and egg without the capacity you don’t know what you can achieve. When we moved from the Dell I seem to remember the Business Case was based remaining in the Prem on average crowds of circa 25k. Reality in the prem was somewhat different average crowds circa 30k. As a non ST holder I attend 6 - 8 games (league position irrelevant) a season. When in the prem this needed careful planning and tended to be for the less glamorous games as getting tickets was easier. One problem with glamour games is that whilst they don’t sell out totally often all that is available is odd single seat which do not appeal to families or groups of mates. Also I have friends who whilst not die hard saints fans enjoy attending Saint Mary’s especially when we were in the prem but are put off by the not being able to get walk ups or last minute tickets.

 

Expansion, as is every business investment, a risk but you will not increase support without it and increased support leads to more that just gate receipts it will increase merchandise, sponsorship, TV revenue etc. There are thousands of potential "customers" out there and I truly believe that average gates approaching 40k in the prem regardless of position are realistic, moving beyond that would require on the pitch success the like of which we have not seen since 1984.

[holepuncture]

They were going ahead with this regardless of relegation last season.

 

Are you drunk?

 

[Matthew Le God]

Are you drunk?

 

No, this is what Jez Moxy said in the press conference to unveil the plans for Molineux. There were going ahead with them regardless of relegation or not and have nearly finished one stand already and are using bits of it on matchdays at the moment.

[Thedelldays]

No, this is what Jez Moxy said in the press conference to unveil the plans for Molineux. There were going ahead with them regardless of relegation or not and have nearly finished one stand already and are using bits of it on matchdays at the moment.

you just cant leave it can you

[Matthew Le God]

you just cant leave it can you

 

So what evidence do you think Wolves used to increase to 36k (and have future plans for 50k)?

[Thedelldays]

So what evidence do you think Wolves used to increase to 36k (and have future plans for 50k)?

could not care less what so ever about wolves

 

do you really have to go on and on and on and on until submission..?

[Matthew Le God]

could not care less what so ever about wolves

 

do you really have to go on and on and on and on until submission..?

 

Why isn't the Wolves redevelopment relevant?

 

Why do you complain about me "going on" when I raise a question you can't (or don't want to answer)?

[Thedelldays]

Why isn't the Wolves redevelopment relevant?Why do you complain about me "going on" when I raise a question you can't (or don't want to answer)?

what has wolves got to do with anything to do with saints...im going to leave this now....will leave all those others to answer you who feel what ever is going on at wolves is relevant

[Matthew Le God]

what has wolves got to do with anything to do with saints...im going to leave this now....will leave all those others to answer you who feel what ever is going on at wolves is relevant

 

So because Wolves aren't Saints, they don't need the same levels of evidence in order to expand their stadium?

[Bearsy]

...im going to leave this now....

 

mlg 1:0 dd

[egg]

So because Wolves aren't Saints, they don't need the same levels of evidence in order to expand their stadium?

 

 

See the poking fun post re attendances which include wolves.

 

Like delldays, I have no interest in wolves and see no relevance to any decision they make to us.

 

Please read the overwhelming sense written by the likes of poking fun. Then wind your neck in.

[Matthew Le God]

See the poking fun post re attendances which include wolves.

 

Please read the overwhelming sense written by the likes of poking fun. Then wind your neck in.

 

You make this too easy!

 

The capacity of Molineux during early stage of construction of the Stan Cullis Stand was circa 24k as they had to knock it down. Poking Fun's post was ill-informed (as are you) and it certainly isn't talking "overwhelming sense" as you describe.

 

Poking Fun even describes Wolves as comparable to Saints. So why don't you want to compare them if you think he speaks with such "overwhelming sense"?

Edited 5 October, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[egg]

You make this too easy!

 

The capacity of Molineux during early stage of construction of the Stan Cullis Stand was circa 24k as they had to knock it down. Poking Fun's post was ill-informed (as are you) and it certainly isn't talking "overwhelming sense" as you describe.

 

Poking Fun even describes Wolves as comparable to Saints. So why don't you want to compare them if you think he speaks with such "overwhelming sense"?

 

 

Because we are not wolves. We are not established in the prem. You are beyond simple.

[Matthew Le God]

Because we are not wolves. We are not established in the prem. You are beyond simple.

 

Wolves announced this whilst they were in the relegation zone and said it would go ahead regardless of relegation to the Championship. They were hardly "established in the Premier League" at the time.

 

If you call for Saints to "have evidence", what evidence do you think the professionals in charge at Wolves used?

 

It is not me being "simple".

[egg]

Wolves announced this whilst they were in the relegation zone and said it would go ahead regardless of relegation to the Championship. They were hardly "established in the Premier League" at the time.

 

If you call for Saints to "have evidence", what evidence do you think the professionals in charge at Wolves used?

 

It is not me being "simple".

 

 

We are not wolves. What they do is irrelevant. Bags of apples and bags of pears etc.

[buctootim]

Catchment size is important, as is proximity of other successful clubs. Nothing matters like price though. Priced £10 a ticket in the premier league and we'd sell 50,000 every game. Charge £50 and we'd get c20,000. IMO the club should pitch the pricing with an eye on filling the stadium (long term fanbase building) rather than best mix of maximising revenue and minimising costs.

[Matthew Le God]

We are not wolves. What they do is irrelevant. Bags of apples and bags of pears etc.

 

Make up your mind!

 

Earlier today you said this...

 

See the poking fun post re attendances which include wolves.

 

Which suggests you do think Wolves are relevant.

 

And you call me simple! Try not to contradict yourself too much!

Edited 5 October, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[hypochondriac]

And people say I ruin threads. What a load of tripe.

[Matthew Le God]

And people say I ruin threads. What a load of tripe.

 

Yep, Egg is making himself look foolish by contradicting himself.

[egg]

Make up you mind!

 

Earlier today you said this...

 

 

 

Which suggests you do think Wolves are relevant.

 

 

I despair. The thread I referred to dealt with the increases in attendances for clubs after promotion (we have not been promoted). One if those clubs was wolves.

 

I have not drawn any comparisons between us and wolves. You have.

 

I have said that there is no evidence of s need for a bigger stadium if we get promoted. You have given no evidence, just a bizarre reference to wolves.

 

I really am bored with you now so fill your boots and enjoy the last naive word.

[Matthew Le God]

I despair. The thread I referred to dealt with the increases in attendances for clubs after promotion (we have not been promoted). One if those clubs was wolves.

 

I have not drawn any comparisons between us and wolves. You have.

 

I have said that there is no evidence of s need for a bigger stadium if we get promoted. You have given no evidence, just a bizarre reference to wolves.

 

Bloody hell this is difficult.

 

Wolves went from 24k in the Championship to 28k in the Premier League. They couldn't get any higher than 28k, because Molineux wasn't any bigger than than. In the summer the capacity was reduced to 24k when they knocked down the Stan Cullis Stand to rebuild it. It is now partially complete and have started using parts of it.

Edited 5 October, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[egg]

bloody hell this is difficult.

 

Wolves went from 24k in the championship to 28k in the premier league. They couldn't get any higher than 28k, because molineux wasn't any bigger than than. In the summer the capacity was reduced to 24k when they knocked down the stan cullis stand to rebuild it. It is now partially complete and have started using parts of it.

 

 

 

we are not wolves.

[Matthew Le God]

we are not wolves.

 

You drew comparisons with Wolves because you referred me to Poking Fun's post, where he said Saints were comparable to Wolves.

 

Can you not see how you are contradicting yourself?

[egg]

You drew comparisons with Wolves because you referred me to Poking Fun's post, where he said Saints were comparable to Wolves.

 

Can you not see how you are contradicting yourself?

 

 

 

That post referred to nine clubs! I merely mentionef wolves as you have been banging on about them.

 

You overlook the other eight clubs, and all the other contra evidence on this thread. Please, please give it up as you are just making yourself look a tool.

[Matthew Le God]

That post referred to nine clubs! I merely mentionef wolves as you have been banging on about them.

 

You overlook the other eight clubs, and all the other contra evidence on this thread. Please, please give it up as you are just making yourself look a tool.

 

I didn't overlook the other eight clubs. See post #170 where I said...

 

"Most are smaller clubs and have seen huge rises, those that haven't seen large rises are restricted by stadium capacity."

 

If you want I'll go through them...(note he uses the phrase "comparable clubs")

 

Saints are averaging 24k in NPC now which is decent but looking at comparable clubs that have been promoted in previous seasons shows some interesting reading once you compare their NPC average with their following season or current PL average. Stats are as follows:

 

Norwich - 26,200 from 25,400 - probably capacity;

QPR - 15,700 from 16,600 - probably capacity;

Swansea - 19,800 from 15,500 (+27.7%)

Newcastle - 44,800 from 43,400 - not sure if this is capacity but thought Newcastle had 50k + capacity so therefore a very big club that has shown no real increase;

West Brom - 24,200 from 22,200 (+9%);

Blackpool - 15,800 from 8,600 (+83.7%);

Wolves - 24,000 from 24,200 - virtually same;

Brum - 25,461 from 19,000 (+34%);

Burnley - 20,653 from 13,100 (+57.6%).

 

Norwich - 26,200 from 25,400 - probably capacity;

 

Restricted by Carrow Road capacity and they are looking to expand.

 

QPR - 15,700 from 16,600 - probably capacity;

 

Not a similar size to Saints and have huge ticket prices in a dated stadium

 

Swansea - 19,800 from 15,500 (+27.7%)

 

Close to capacity and a smaller club than Saints

 

Newcastle - 44,800 from 43,400 - not sure if this is capacity but thought Newcastle had 50k + capacity so therefore a very big club that has shown no real increase;

 

A larger club than Saints and so not comparable.

 

West Brom - 24,200 from 22,200 (+9%);

 

Restricted by the Hawthorns capacity and smaller club than Saints.

 

Blackpool - 15,800 from 8,600 (+83.7%);

 

A huge increase of 83.7% actually goes against his argument and in any case they are much smaller than Saints.

 

Wolves - 24,000 from 24,200 - virtually same;

 

As we have been through, restricted by capacity and they are currently rebuilding upto 36k and possibly 38k - 50k.

 

Brum - 25,461 from 19,000 (+34%);

 

Smaller fanbase than Saints so not comparable.

 

Burnley - 20,653 from 13,100 (+57.6%).

 

Like with Blackpool a much smaller team than Saints thus not comparable as he states and in any case a 57.6% increase goes against his own argument.

 

Anyone that thinks that is a list of "comparable clubs" to Saints is insane! Egg you have already made it clear that you do.

Edited 5 October, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[70's Mike]

Catchment size is important but eventually it is continued success on the pitch which determines attendance, at the Dell we had a hardcore of 13500, that has slowly increased to about 18000 today.

During the current economic climate and where football clubs seem to be burying their heads in the sands over ticket prices i do not expect that hardcore to increase until promotion is virtually assured

[Turkish]

Bloody hell this is difficult.

 

Wolves went from 24k in the Championship to 28k in the Premier League. They couldn't get any higher than 28k, because Molineux wasn't any bigger than than. In the summer the capacity was reduced to 24k when they knocked down the Stan Cullis Stand to rebuild it. It is now partially complete and have started using parts of it.

 

Why haven't they just gone to 50k like you think we should? They'd fill it based on your evidence tha 24k crowds in the championship means 50k crowds in the premier league.

[Matthew Le God]

Why haven't they just gone to 50k like you think we should? They'd fill it based on your evidence tha 24k crowds in the championship means 50k crowds in the premier league.

 

Because they are surrounded by loads of competing clubs and need to test the water with a 36k stadium. It is also coming at quite an expense and don't have a backer as rich as the Liebherr estate. They also have no recent history of sustained 30k+ crowds like Saints do. The last time Wolves averaged 30k+ was 41 years ago the last time Saints did was a mere 6 years ago!

Edited 5 October, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[ericb]

To be honest Wolves are a bigger club than us, they've won more, have more history and less of the plastic support we have. Personally i don't care if we have 32,000 or 50,000 but i do think MLG is a boring, semi autistic **** who lives in a weird Football manager nether world.

[Matthew Le God]

To be honest Wolves are a bigger club than us, they've won more, have more history and less of the plastic support we have.

 

Yes they have won more, but their last domestic win of note was 50 years ago so not really that relevant to the size of a club today. In those last 50 years it has seen Saints with higher league placings, better cup performance and better attendances.

 

You say "less of the plastic support we have" but what is that meant to mean? As recently as the 1980's Wolves were averaging 4k for league games, does that not make current Wolves fans plastic?

[egg]

Yes they have won more, but their last domestic win of note was 50 years ago so not really that relevant to the size of a club today. In those last 50 years it has seen Saints with higher league placings, better cup performance and better attendances.

 

You say "less of the plastic support we have" but what is that meant to mean? As recently as the 1980's Wolves were averaging 4k for league games, does that not make current Wolves fans plastic?

 

FFS do you never give up? Ever heard the phrase agree to disagree? Just about every person who has posted on this thread has come down against you. I know you're a fighter, and that's a nice quality, but just throw the towel in and call it a night.