krissyboy31 Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 I don't think there is any doubt we could sustain a 40k stadium, maybe 42k but very doubtful anything bigger. Here's the crux! Would an extension of only 8-10k seats be worth the capital investment? I would suggest not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 I kind of agree with MLG. We only have to sell another 6000 tickets a game to have the place sold out. If we got promoted I think this would easily happen for most matches in our first season. Just look at the amount of people in around Southampton that don't go anymore. Most companies I've worked for had a bunch of season tickets when we were in the top flight, now only one has some and they reduced this by half. Not sure we could regularly sell +40k unless we were consistantly near the top of the Premier League and I can't really see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Games were selling out (and getting close to sell outs) when Saints were in the relegation zone. A team with investment competing towards the top of the league will see interest increase significantly. And how many more wanted to come? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Games were selling out (and getting close to sell outs) when Saints were in the relegation zone. A team with investment competing towards the top of the league will see interest increase significantly. so, what will the season ticket/match day ticket prices be when we are top 6/4..? where is this investment coming from....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 I'm saying that I have seen no evidence that there was consistent demand Four years in the Premier League at a 32k St Mary's saw four years of 30k+ average attendances and numerous sellouts. Why does that not count as evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 And you failed to give an answer. Ummm, no he hasn't. It's also a damn sight more sensible than your bizarre idea that we need a 50k stadium that will be full of Janner day trippers. Stick to fantasy football nipper as I'm not sure you have a grip on the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 (edited) That doesn't answer it at all. Once a game has sold out why would you try and buy tickets? Yes, some may not be aware it has sold out, but the majority will especially once they get used to sell outs on a regular basis. Hence why we had games sell out in a matter of hours/days after going on sale. As i said, I know that only a few hundred tops were ever turned away. I dont know ANYONE who never got a ticket if they wanted one, neither does anyone else on here, or anyone that works in the ticket office it would seem. Are you seriously saying that 18,000+ NEVER tried getting tickets for ANY Man United, Chelsea, Pompey, Arsenal etc games because they knew they wouldn't get one? Edited 4 October, 2011 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 I kind of agree with MLG. We only have to sell another 6000 tickets a game to have the place sold out. If we got promoted I think this would easily happen for most matches in our first season. Just look at the amount of people in around Southampton that don't go anymore. Most companies I've worked for had a bunch of season tickets when we were in the top flight, now only one has some and they reduced this by half. Not sure we could regularly sell +40k unless we were consistantly near the top of the Premier League and I can't really see that happening. Most would agree that 40k is a sensible option but 50k? Nah, that's just 'kin stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Four years in the Premier League at a 32k St Mary's saw four years of 30k+ average attendances and numerous sellouts. Why does that not count as evidence? Selling out is not evidence of fans not being able to get in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Ummm, no he hasn't. It's also a damn sight more sensible than your bizarre idea that we need a 50k stadium that will be full of Janner day trippers. Stick to fantasy football nipper as I'm not sure you have a grip on the real world. And you need a reading lesson, because at no point did I say there would be significant numbers of Janners filling up a 50k stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 And you need a reading lesson, because at no point did I say there would be significant numbers of Janners filling up a 50k stadium.you brought the idea of people from devon and cornwall coming to SMS and swelling the numbers....when that simply is not and has never been the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 And you need a reading lesson, because at no point did I say there would be significant numbers of Janners filling up a 50k stadium. So who would? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Selling out is not evidence of fans not being able to get in! So you are suggesting that a Saints match in a relegation season like 2004/05, is just as attractive to the non hardcore Saints fans as those matches in the 2002/03 season when we came 8th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 And you need a reading lesson, because at no point did I say there would be significant numbers of Janners filling up a 50k stadium. No, it would be the 18,000 Saints fans that were locked out every week filling it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 you brought the idea of people from devon and cornwall coming to SMS and swelling the numbers....when that simply is not and has never been the case I didn't at any point say it would be large numbers coming from Devon and Cornwall. You are just putting words in my mouth now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 So you are suggesting that a Saints match in a relegation season like 2004/05, is just as attractive to the non hardcore Saints fans as those matches in the 2002/03 season when we came 8th? i wonder if we would have had those numbers if we were told before hand that we would finish bottom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 i wonder if we would have had those numbers if we were told before hand that we would finish bottom For a large part of the season (if not all of it) you had a good indication it wasn't going to end well. People still turned up though and the average was 30k+. Even the season ticket holders when buying in the summer would have known the prospects weren't great going into that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 For a large part of the season (if not all of it) you had a good indication it wasn't going to end well. People still turned up though and the average was 30k+.Even the season ticket holders when buying in the summer would have known the prospects weren't great going into that season. its called support....I bet we would never have got as many week in week out if we all knew before the season started that we would finish bottom as for knowing what was going to happen..I actually thought we would be ok when arry was manager...even we we beat norwich I though we could do it.....never though at any point that we would finish bottom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Four years in the Premier League at a 32k St Mary's saw four years of 30k+ average attendances and numerous sellouts. Why does that not count as evidence? Maybe you could ask Nicola Cortese why he doesn't count it as evidence (and therefore why we're not currently building a bigger stadium in time for our promotion to the Premier League), and you might be getting close to the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djharvey Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 It's an aim. A goal, A target, something to try to achieve and aspire to. We have proven we can get 32k regularly. If a lot of things go right, we get the right level of investment, we regularly finish in the top 6, we play attractive football, we are actually relavtively bloody successful, we could, maybe, possibly, fill a 40k stadium and there could, maybe, possibly be a case that it would be worthwhile to expand to that. But only if we can prove there will be an ROI and over a period of time that we can sustain crowds of 40k regularly and not by giving them away as freebies to schools and families and not by having 10,000 fans travelling from Cornwall once a season to watch Man United. It really isnt that difficult to understand is it sweetheart. So your using the same type of logic for 40k as others are for 50k. 'if's but's and maybe's. Slate anyone for suggesting 50k but your own logic for 40k is just as flimsy. Tuck ya peticoat in and off ya twirl! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 So your using the same type of logic for 40k as others are for 50k. 'if's but's and maybe's. Slate anyone for suggesting 50k but your own logic for 40k is just as flimsy. Tuck ya peticoat in and off ya twirl! SO do you think we can fill a 50k stadium as well then sweetheart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 So you are suggesting that a Saints match in a relegation season like 2004/05, is just as attractive to the non hardcore Saints fans as those matches in the 2002/03 season when we came 8th? Ffs, evidence? Nobody expands a stadium unless there is demand to fill it. It is not a difficult concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 its called support....I bet we would never have got as many week in week out if we all knew before the season started that we would finish bottom Yes, but if we knew the team had a good chance of being in the top half then more would want to go. Plus as the season went on and the fanbase could see it was going to be a struggle a lot of the "glory supporters" would not turn up as often. Yet the walkups still led the club with roughly 21k season ticket holders to average over 30k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Ffs, evidence? Nobody expands a stadium unless there is demand to fill it. It is not a difficult concept. Why is four years of 30k+ averages and many sellouts in the last decade in a 32k stadium, not evidence in your eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Yes, but if we knew the team had a good chance of being in the top half then more would want to go. Plus as the season went on and the fanbase could see it was going to be a struggle a lot of the "glory supporters" would not turn up as often. Yet the walkups still led the club with roughly 21k season ticket holders to average over 30k. we can go round and round all night..just accept I have a different opinion.... also, right now, getting 23-25k whilst top of the NPC it seem rather daft to be talking about expanding SMS especially whilst there is a massive credit crunch on, money is tight, there is a massive credit crunch on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Why is four years of 30k+ averages and many sellouts in the last decade in a 32k stadium, not evidence in your eyes? what evidence is there that there is 1000s chomping at the bit to immediately fill 10000 seats..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Why is four years of 30k+ averages and many sellouts in the last decade in a 32k stadium, not evidence in your eyes? because average 30k 5 years ago with no waiting lists or turned away fans does not equate to selling 20k more than that in 2 year time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Why is four years of 30k+ averages and many sellouts in the last decade in a 32k stadium, not evidence in your eyes? Seriously mate, are you really this simple? We filled, not all of the time, our stadium. There is NO evidence that substantially more people wanted tickets at all, and certainly not on a regular basis. Against that background, there is no evidence that we ever needed a bigger stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djharvey Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 And how many more wanted to come? Turkish thinks 40k is realistic, so surely that must mean that 8k were either on a waiting list or outside the ground trying to buy tickets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 (edited) also, right now, getting 23-25k whilst top of the NPC it seem rather daft to be talking about expanding SMS especially whilst there is a massive credit crunch on, money is tight, there is a massive credit crunch on Saints are currently averaging 23,941 in the Championship, which is very good and is currently only behind West Ham and Derby County. It is likely to climb higher than that after boxing day and New Years home games, last home game, Pompey, Brighton, West Ham etc fixtures. Saints are currently averaging more than Leeds United, Leicester City and Nottingham Forest. All of which are big clubs, Leeds have a 40k stadium themselves. Once in the Premier League the season ticket holders are likely to return to similar levels and a 7k leap and the demand will also increase. Edited 4 October, 2011 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Turkish thinks 40k is realistic, so surely that must mean that 8k were either on a waiting list or outside the ground trying to buy tickets! Stop trolling me you wierdo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Turkish thinks 40k is realistic, so surely that must mean that 8k were either on a waiting list or outside the ground trying to buy tickets! Double ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 because average 30k 5 years ago with no waiting lists or turned away fans does not equate to selling 20k more than that in 2 year time. You could feasibly ask "why does an average attendance of more than 2,000 seats below the capacity reflect evidence that we should build a bigger stadium"? But then we all know MLG is on a meltdown here and won't admit he's wrong. Even despite the fact that, were he actually correct, we would be building a bigger stadium now in order to make use of the revenues when we get to the Premier League. We're not doing that. We're not going to do that as soon as we get to the PL. Unfortunately, only MLG disagrees with that. Thankfully our chairman is a lot brighter and more realistic than our forum hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 You could feasibly ask "why does an average attendance of more than 2,000 seats below the capacity reflect evidence that we should build a bigger stadium"? - Segregation leads to varying reduced capacities on a game by game basis. - Not all games sold out, but many did. Indicating there is a demand for more seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 - Segregation leads to varying reduced capacities on a game by game basis. - Not all games sold out, but many did. Indicating there is a demand for more seats. You need to appreciate that selling out does not mean demand for more tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 (edited) You need to appreciate that selling out does not mean demand for more tickets. That would mean admitting he is wrong, a skill he is incapable of. Besides which, MLG has no idea of the exact numbers required for segregation, nor an exact idea of how many games we sold out for. That is just the start of a massive black hole of information that he doesn't have, yet still persists in peddling this ridiculous nonsense. As I've said, thank God we don't have a chairman who is so naive. Edited 4 October, 2011 by The Kraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellone Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Can't we build a 65k capable stadium and space the seat out a bit so it doesn't look empty then add as demand requires. Dragon's Den here I come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 (edited) You need to appreciate that selling out does not mean demand for more tickets. So if it is a sell out of 32,151 like it was against Arsenal in 2003, you think not a single other person in the world wanted to go to that fixture if a larger capacity meant more tickets were available? Similar numbers were going to games at St Mary's that season against Norwich, Birmingham and Bolton, do you not think a tie against the Premier League Champions (at the time) Arsenal is not vastly more attractive as a fixture? Edited 4 October, 2011 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Rabbit Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Do you ever shut up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Do you ever shut up? I think you can apply that to more than just me in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambsaint Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Norwich-is virtually sold out on season ticket sales alone and was in both div1 and the Championship. Its a relatively small city with a large elderly rural surrounding catchment area. When we can sell 23to25k seasons then we should consider enlarging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 So if it is a sell out of 32,151 like it was against Arsenal in 2003, you think not a single other person in the world wanted to go to that fixture if a larger capacity meant more tickets were available? What proof is there that the demand was there to have sold, say, just an extra 100 home tickets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 What proof is there that the demand was there to have sold, say, just an extra 100 home tickets? So you think the difference in attractiveness of a fixture between one against Bolton and one against the current (at the time) Champions of the country Arsenal is possibly just 100 people? Does common sense not tell you that is unlikely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 So if it is a sell out of 32,151 like it was against Arsenal in 2003, you think not a single other person in the world wanted to go to that fixture if a larger capacity meant more tickets were available? Similar numbers were going to games at St Mary's that season against Norwich, Birmingham and Bolton, do you not think a tie against the Premier League Champions (at the time) Arsenal is not vastly more attractive as a fixture? This is getting tedious, besides I am trying to watch shameless. You plainly don't get it. Evidence is not a guess, or assumption. Seats cost millions so there has to be near certainty that they will be sold regularly, and that the return would justify the expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 This is getting tedious, besides I am trying to watch shameless. You plainly don't get it. Evidence is not a guess, or assumption. Seats cost millions so there has to be near certainty that they will be sold regularly, and that the return would justify the expense. So what evidence would you want if you were Cortese in order to justify an expansion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 So you think the difference in attractiveness of a fixture between one against Bolton and one against the current (at the time) Champions of the country Arsenal is possibly just 100 people? Does common sense not tell you that is unlikely? No, I'm completely avoiding your suppositions as they are irrelevant. The only relevant thing is what evidence there is to show we could sell more home tickets than capacity to justify a new stadium. You claim there is evidence. What you just suggested is not evidence, it is an assumption. I'll assume then that you have no evidence to back up your assumptions; which is the entire point. Mr. Cortese will wait to see such evidence, thankfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 No, I'm completely avoiding your suppositions as they are irrelevant. The only relevant thing is what evidence there is to show we could sell more home tickets than capacity to justify a new stadium. You claim there is evidence. What you just suggested is not evidence, it is an assumption. I'll assume then that you have no evidence to back up your assumptions; which is the entire point. Mr. Cortese will wait to see such evidence, thankfully. As I asked Egg, what evidence would you want if you were Cortese in order to justify an expansion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 So what evidence would you want if you were Cortese in order to justify an expansion? A very high level of season tickets, close to or over capacity of home tickets. Match tickets going on sale and consistently selling out within hours. Huge demand (thousands) for tickets, possibly by ballotting for high demand games. That would be a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Mlg, waiting lists for season tickets, fans complaining they cant get in, away teams demanding more seats, an upturn in economic conditions, reassurance that the seats would pay for themselves within a few years. The obvious really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 The biggest issue for the "we could easily sell loads more tickets" is it all conveniently relies on lots of other things happening first. If we had investment, and if we were top six and if we were beating all comers at St Mary's and if we were challenging for the champions league and if we were delivering Cortese's dream then we would be filling a 50,000 stadium. But we don't like the boringness of the here and now, do we chaps. It's all nice and cosy getting offended when people say we can't get 50k and to accuse us of being negative and not believing in the potential and all that guff. But, back in the real world, Sunderland averaged high twenties in the Championship. Newcastle did too. Why, in the boring here and now, aren't we averaging high twenties in the championship now? We've got a stadium big enough and we've got a bigger catchment area than Sunderland and they said you couldn't climb Everest and we used to turn literally tens of people away when we played Charlton in the Premier League or something. So why don't we match Sunderland in this division, now? It can't be lack of success, can it. We're top of the frigging league. So why isn't the Everest climb starting now? Where are the 27, 28, 29, 30 thousand gates in this division. Not one offs, mind. Average. It will make the Everest climb to 50,000 a bit bloody easier if we started at 30,000 in the second tier rather than 25,000. Doesn't mean we'd need to double the bleeding gates anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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