Clapham Saint Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 I bit of a hot in the dark but does anybody on here an electrician/have experience with lighting? We moved into our house just under 18 months ago and have had no end of problems with the spotlights, although those in the kitchen are by far the worst. Initially we had "normal" (I think Halogen) spotlights but after they blew at a rate of about 1.5 a month we had an electrician (who was helping on something elsewhere in the house) take a look. He couldn't see a problem but suggested that we buy some special led lights which are guaranteed for 10 years instead. They're a LOT more expensive but apparently should last. 6 months down the line and 3 of these lights have now also blown and this is now getting silly. Does anybody have any idea what might be causing this? I suspect I'll probably need to get another electrician out but given that the last guy couldn;t find a problem and I'm calling somebody out to find an unknown problem I'm wary of somebody taking me for the mug that I am and charging me a fortune for coming out and "fixing" an invested issue only for me to be no better off (or am I too much of a sceptic?). These are the new bulbs. Supposedly guaranteed for 40,000 hours. http://www.amazon.co.uk/eSecure-White-Bright-Light-Energy/dp/B0044CSIOK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1317716285&sr=8-1 Thanks in advance guys, CS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Bob Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 We have the same problem. Our house is Victorian and still has some very old wiring in places so we've put is down to that. Very annoying all th esame. Think this should be in the Lounge though. Not very Saints related! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 We have the same problem. Our house is Victorian and still has some very old wiring in places so we've put is down to that. Very annoying all th esame. Think this should be in the Lounge though. Not very Saints related! You need to replace that old wiring but I'm not sure that it would contribute to LED and Halogen bulbs blowing long before their time.I rewired our old farmhouse completely apart from the outside barn but the LED bulbs don't blow even out there where it's sometimes very hot and sometimes very cold.They're on about 6/7 hours a day as I use it as a Gym/Workshop and the wife runs a few botany experiments in there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Could be caused by power surge, at least that was the cause for us. Mind you halogen bulbs hate being touched as the oils from your hand cause them to blow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Get new transformers for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 4 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Also I didn't mean to post this on the main board! Maybe a mod can move it? Thanks CS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 OK, firstly the lamps that you have bought do not need transformers as they are 240v. Secondly the lamp that you have a crap. Try these: http://www.ukelectricalsupplies.com/Kosnic-Warm-White-PowerSpot-5-Watt-GU10-LED.htm I sell 1000's of them, and if you like to buy them off me, I'll do them for £10.00 each + vat PM me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 You need to replace that old wiring but I'm not sure that it would contribute to LED and Halogen bulbs blowing long before their time.I rewired our old farmhouse completely apart from the outside barn but the LED bulbs don't blow even out there where it's sometimes very hot and sometimes very cold.They're on about 6/7 hours a day as I use it as a Gym/Workshop and the wife runs a few botany experiments in there as well. I've been told that growing weed takes up quite a lot of electricity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 I've been told that growing weed takes up quite a lot of electricity... I wish...........it's actually something to do with low temperature olive trees....but exactly what...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 4 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Hmmm... Out house was fully refurbed by the previous owners so I don't think (or at lease hope!) it is the wiring. Actually, why does old wiring cause bulbs to blow. Does it allow a greater load? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Hmmm... Out house was fully refurbed by the previous owners so I don't think (or at lease hope!) it is the wiring. Actually, why does old wiring cause bulbs to blow. Does it allow a greater load? It doesn't, he's full of ****. Maybe you could fit a RCBO into your fuseboard, that will solve nonsence tripping and make your lamps last longer. The lamps you have are fitted with a circuit board which will blow when power surges occur or when you turn on the lights. What make is your fuseboard, and what type of MCB's are fitted in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 4 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 4 October, 2011 It doesn't, he's full of ****. Maybe you could fit a RCBO into your fuseboard, that will solve nonsence tripping and make your lamps last longer. The lamps you have are fitted with a circuit board which will blow when power surges occur or when you turn on the lights. What make is your fuseboard, and what type of MCB's are fitted in it? Thanks Dog. Happy to answer but... RCBO? MCB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Thanks Dog. Happy to answer but... RCBO? MCB? What make is your fuseboard? Inside the fuseboard, there are breakers, what part number do they say on the front of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 4 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 4 October, 2011 What make is your fuseboard? Inside the fuseboard, there are breakers, what part number do they say on the front of them? Conctactum? The breakers for the lights are "7106B" The main breaker is "C1002SW" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 4 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 4 October, 2011 I've also just notice that I managed to *ock up the thread title. D'oh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CM90603SP.html Get one of these rcbo's and swap it for your 6amp mcb. Then get some decent lamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 4 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 4 October, 2011 http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CM90603SP.html Get one of these rcbo's and swap it for your 6amp mcb. Then get some decent lamps. Thanks for this. What do you think the current problem is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Thanks for this. What do you think the current problem is? Cheap quality lamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidshokk Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Blimey. Never seen Dog having such a sensible conversation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 I'm no expert, but might I suggest your flux capacitor isn't getting the 1.21 gigawatts that it needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Dog's right. The crap on ebay should be outlawed. The reason they are prematurely failing is the heat build up from LEDs. These things are assembled in some Chinese sweat shop from cheap inefficient LEDs to pack as many into the lamp shape as possible, without any thought for thermal management. Don't believe the BS about them being cool and energy efficient either. ALL LED lamps need efficient heat sinks on the back to dissipate the heat and 5mm LED arrays like these are not particularly efficient or colour stable. The ones that Dog has linked are better, look like they have heat sinks. However, don't be fooled into thinking they'll be as bright as the halogen lamps you're replacing. They'll be about two-thirds as bright as 20W halogens. The best LED applications can be very efficient, but pricewise are probably beyond the average domestic user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scally Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Would be interested to know Dogs theory on why swapping an mcb for an rcbo will stop nuisance tripping? I doubt this is anything to do with your problem in fact rcbos are far more sensitive than mcbs and so would be more likely to operate under fault conditions. Although he may well be right on the crap lamps theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellone Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 Dog's right. The crap on ebay should be outlawed. The reason they are prematurely failing is the heat build up from LEDs. These things are assembled in some Chinese sweat shop from cheap inefficient LEDs to pack as many into the lamp shape as possible, without any thought for thermal management. Don't believe the BS about them being cool and energy efficient either. ALL LED lamps need efficient heat sinks on the back to dissipate the heat and 5mm LED arrays like these are not particularly efficient or colour stable. The ones that Dog has linked are better, look like they have heat sinks. However, don't be fooled into thinking they'll be as bright as the halogen lamps you're replacing. They'll be about two-thirds as bright as 20W halogens. The best LED applications can be very efficient, but pricewise are probably beyond the average domestic user. Don't the savings in energy cost balance the initial lay out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintscottofthenortham Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 It doesn't, he's full of ****.Maybe you could fit a RCBO into your fuseboard, that will solve nonsence tripping and make your lamps last longer. The lamps you have are fitted with a circuit board which will blow when power surges occur or when you turn on the lights.What make is your fuseboard, and what type of MCB's are fitted in it?What on earth are you on about? MCB's making lamps last longer?I would seriously suggest ignoring this advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintscottofthenortham Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 (edited) Don't the savings in energy cost balance the initial lay out?Can be true. What I like about them is how they don't get red hot. So many times I have looked at faulty halogen lights to find that the cable has melted to the lamp. LED's get warm and that it.As for the OP's problem, could be any number of things and would require a bit of investigation to try and source a problem and could still come back with nothing. Don't take advice from anyone and act on it without them having a look first, as you'll almost certainly still have a problem in a month or so's time. Edited 4 October, 2011 by saintscottofthenortham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scally Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 I've never been a fan of downlights because they get so hot, even fire rated fittings have to lose heat somewhere. Also I'm not convinced the lamps blow anymore than any other fitting, for me its just the fact we were used to having one central fitting in a room with one lamp and now have sometimes up to 10 fittings in the same room with 10 lamps, what ever you do you'll have to change more lamps more often with downlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted 4 October, 2011 Share Posted 4 October, 2011 (edited) Don't the savings in energy cost balance the initial lay out? Only if they last as long as they claim. Those ones on ebay will probably only last 3000-4000 hours, they're so badly made. In that time, they'll save perhaps £2 in energy, if their specs are to be believed - but they're probably inflated. The problem is there's no real standards, so manufacturers can make extravagant and sometimes downright false claims about output and energy use. If you want realistic specs and highly efficient lamps, try these from Philips: http://www.philips.co.uk/c/-/econic-3-w-35-w-gu10-white-g08727900844924/prd/ £25 each, 15000 hours and they WILL save you money/energy. Edited 4 October, 2011 by Pugwash Link added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkySaint Posted 5 October, 2011 Share Posted 5 October, 2011 My advise would, if you don't go for low energy lamps, would be to install 35W lamps. 50W lamps 12V get very hot and if you stamp on the floor above them then they tend to blow. I would always advise someone to install 'branded' lamps and transformer as cheap wholesaler lamps and transformers last no time at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 5 October, 2011 Share Posted 5 October, 2011 What on earth are you on about? MCB's making lamps last longer?I would seriously suggest ignoring this advice. Totally agree, don't know why I put that but i did suggest RCBO's to stop the main RCD tripping when the lamps blow. Best advice is to get decent 5w LED lamps 240v so don't need transformers http://www.electricity-monitor.com/kosnic-led-gu10-spotlight-warm-white-p-194.html Throw the other multi LED lamps away as they are cack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 5 October, 2011 Share Posted 5 October, 2011 My advise would, if you don't go for low energy lamps, would be to install 35W lamps. 50W lamps 12V get very hot and if you stamp on the floor above them then they tend to blow. I would always advise someone to install 'branded' lamps and transformer as cheap wholesaler lamps and transformers last no time at all Do you stamp around alot when you don't get your branded lamps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkySaint Posted 5 October, 2011 Share Posted 5 October, 2011 Sometimes I punch ceilings with unbranded lamps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintscottofthenortham Posted 5 October, 2011 Share Posted 5 October, 2011 Question to OP, What is the ceiling void like where the spots are installed? Is all insulation removed? The most common cause for lamps failing is overheating. Low Voltage (12v) lamps get really hot (as do 240v lamps, though not AS hot) and if there is insufficient space in the void for the heat to dissipate then the lamp will burn out extremely quickly. LV's have a lifespan of around 10,000 hours I believe (compared to 2,000 for 240v lamp). You want to make sure that there is no insulation cover g the fitting in the void as this can have rather serious consequences. Another thought, What's above the room where your having the problem? Something as silly as a kid jumping out of bed can cause enough vibration in the ceiling to blow a cheap lamp. There's 2 stabs in the dark, get back to me if you can rule both these out and I'll try and give you some more options to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 5 October, 2011 Share Posted 5 October, 2011 OK, firstly the lamps that you have bought do not need transformers as they are 240v. Secondly the lamp that you have a crap. Try these: http://www.ukelectricalsupplies.com/Kosnic-Warm-White-PowerSpot-5-Watt-GU10-LED.htm I sell 1000's of them, and if you like to buy them off me, I'll do them for £10.00 each + vat PM me Got these through my whole flat. The last time I spend £550 on light bulbs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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