Conservative Party Conference

[dune]

Just watching the highlights on BBC Parliament and it's so refreshing to see normal looking people with normal accents talking common sense.

 

Caroline Spelman is very impressive on stage. Humble and sincere and not at all patronising or haughty like Jaqui Smith, Harriet Harman or the ferrety looking wife of Balls.

[1976_Child]

Must be really refreshing for you to see people who are only concerned about themselves and their rich buddies.

 

Same old Tories. Couldn't give a stuff about those less privileged.

[dune]

Must be really refreshing for you to see people who are only concerned about themselves and their rich buddies.

 

Same old Tories. Couldn't give a stuff about those less privileged.

 

Of course you're right. What people want is to be taxed and taxed and taxed some more, so that Superior Socialists can then redistribute it back ( via several layers of bureacrats).

[Saintandy666]

Cameron still a weak point for the party in my opinion. He really needs to sort himself out over the next few years. It's unbelievable he failed to win the election really when faced against Gordon Brown.

[dune]

Cameron still a weak point for the party in my opinion. He really needs to sort himself out over the next few years. It's unbelievable he failed to win the election really when faced against Gordon Brown.

 

I agree, it wasn't good enough for the country, however Nick Clegg and his parliamentary party have acted maturely and in the national interest and i'm pleased to report that several speakers at Conference have reiterated that the deficit reduction plan will not be derailed. This all said we should always remember that of the nations in the Union - England is Conservative to the core.

[dune]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKgDIhMSsrI

 

[Saintandy666]

I agree, it wasn't good enough for the country, however Nick Clegg and his parliamentary party have acted maturely and in the national interest and i'm pleased to report that several speakers at Conference have reiterated that the deficit reduction plan will not be derailed. This all said we should always remember that of the nations in the Union - England is Conservative to the core.

 

Southern England. It wasn't good enough for the country?! The country decides what is good for the country in relation to their government and they decided the Conservatives weren't that!

[Saintandy666]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKgDIhMSsrI

 

 

In fairness, they didn't say FPTP was the best way. Just that they prefer FPTP to AV. Though it was hardly a fair battle, given the lies branded about by the FPTP team(i.e the cost)... which they only admitted to the day AFTER the vote.

[dune]

Southern England. It wasn't good enough for the country?! The country decides what is good for the country in relation to their government and they decided the Conservatives weren't that!

 

You are certainly right about Southern England. However what was most pleasing was to see constituencies such as Winchester and Romsey turn blue.

[dune]

In fairness, they didn't say FPTP was the best way. Just that they prefer FPTP to AV. Though it was hardly a fair battle, given the lies branded about by the FPTP team(i.e the cost)... which they only admitted to the day AFTER the vote.

 

Nobody likes a bad loser Andy. Anyway cheer up, you're young enough that you might see another referendum in your twilight years.

[Saintandy666]

You are certainly right about Southern England. However what was most pleasing was to see constituencies such as Winchester and Romsey turn blue.

 

Well, they will switch back and forth a lot I would imagine. Politics is just one big swing between Labour and Conservatives.

 

It's not fair that Labour get no representation in the south and Conservative in the north considering percentage of votes. What is a disgrace though is the Liberal Democrat vote to seat ratio.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/region/8.stm

 

For example this region...

 

Labour: 26.2% of votes and 4.7% of the seats.

 

And Nationwide...

 

Lib Dems: 23% of the vote for 8% of the seats!!!!

[Saintandy666]

Nobody likes a bad loser Andy. Anyway cheer up, you're young enough that you might see another referendum in your twilight years.

 

I hope so. And this time on PR... which would easily get voted through.

[badgerx16]

....... normal looking people with normal accents talking common sense.

 

There is nothing 'normal' about that lot of self-serving sycophants.

[dune]

And Nationwide...

 

Lib Dems: 23% of the vote for 8% of the seats!!!!

 

ha, such as shame.

[Saintandy666]

ha, such as shame.

 

It's not democratic.

[SuperMikey]

Vowing to create 300,000 jobs and 400,000 houses whilst not changing his mind about cuts in a stagnant economic state. I'd like to see you try that, Dave!

[dune]

It's not democratic.

 

What isn't democratic about the people voting in a referendum? Over 2/3 said NO. Deal with it.

[SuperMikey]

What isn't democratic about the people voting in a referendum? Over 2/3 said NO. Deal with it.

 

Only because the Tories chose what system to propose a switch to, the Lib Dems would not have suggested AV if they had been allowed to choose which system to have a referendum on. AV is cumbersome and the Tories knew that nobody would vote for it, I wouldn't really call it a fair vote in the first place tbh. Let alone the fact that barely anyone voted in the referendum in the first place!

[scotty]

You are certainly right about Southern England. However what was most pleasing was to see constituencies such as Winchester and Romsey turn blue.

 

What was the name of that winchester libdem mp that got caught w*nking over rentboys soiled underwear? oaten? ffs

[dune]

There is nothing 'normal' about that lot of self-serving sycophants.

 

As opposed to self serving Socialists and their multiple layers of non jobs.

[dune]

Only because the Tories chose what system to propose a switch to, the Lib Dems would not have suggested AV if they had been allowed to choose which system to have a referendum on. AV is cumbersome and the Tories knew that nobody would vote for it, I wouldn't really call it a fair vote in the first place tbh. Let alone the fact that barely anyone voted in the referendum in the first place!

 

I think we need to move on. This matter is now closed for at least another 30 years.

[Saintandy666]

What isn't democratic about the people voting in a referendum? Over 2/3 said NO. Deal with it.

 

I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the disparity between voting and seats FPTP creates.

[SuperMikey]

I think we need to move on. This matter is now closed for at least another 30 years.

 

You were the one who was talking about it!

 

You're right about referendums though, unless the Lib Dems get a majority government soon.....

[Saintandy666]

I think we need to move on. This matter is now closed for at least another 30 years.

 

No, it's not closed at all. The debate can go on... because quite clearly, FPTP is bust. 23% to 8% isn't right and something needs to be done.

[pap]

No, it's not closed at all. The debate can go on... because quite clearly, FPTP is bust. 23% to 8% isn't right and something needs to be done.

 

The problem is that it works for the Tories, Andy.

 

They have zero interest in government being decided by more reflective voting systems because they know that they'll never raise the popular support.

[badgerx16]

The problem is that it works for the Tories, Andy.

 

They have zero interest in government being decided by more reflective voting systems because they know that they'll never raise the popular support.

 

And the proposed gerrymandering to reduce the number of MPs and change constituency sizes also works in their favour.

 

As has previously been debated at length, the problem with FPTP is that only about 10-15% of electors, those in the 'swing' seats who are open to being manipulated by the respective manifestos, select the Government.

[dronskisaint]

And the proposed gerrymandering to reduce the number of MPs and change constituency sizes also works in their favour.

 

As has previously been debated at length, the problem with FPTP is that only about 10-15% of electors, those in the 'swing' seats who are open to being manipulated by the respective manifestos, select the Government.

 

This

 

Also worth noting that Dune's 'natural' party of goverment was subject to the biggest walloping for over a century in 1997 when such denizens of political virtue as Neil Hamilton and Harvey Proctor were making Gordon Brown look electable and Mark Oaten look savoury.

 

Politics is an inevitable cycle...but this is a relatively recent phenomenon in it's current form. The past century has shown a rejection of the Tory of the past and a constant pull towards the rights of all...not just the rich.

 

Cameron may be a chinless Etonian with a background of wealth and privilege but to his predecessors he would be a raving leftie....this is the ongoing and inexorable trend and whist individual governments may move left and right (Blair to the right to win in '97 a classic example) the underlying revulsion at those that use their unearned privilege to gain power will assure that this tide continues to turn to a more just society - history is a powerful proof source.

[Hunty]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/tories-to-try-and-look-normal-for-three-days-201110034372/ Just about sums the conference up

[ecuk268]

I find it strange that a UKIP supporter (our good friend dune) supports a party that will never take us out of Europe because they would lose the support of big business from which comes their cash.

 

William Hague said as much yesterday.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The whole Party conference season is a complete and utter waste of time. They used to be about the grass roots and discuss policies, now they're so tightly stage managed, they are pointless. Labour dont want their comrade's getting too much airtime, the Torys dont want Europe mentioned and even the Libs have stopped wearing sandals.The whole thing is just a massive jolly, and whose picking up the security bill?

[um pahars]

The whole Party conference season is a complete and utter waste of time. They used to be about the grass roots and discuss policies, now they're so tightly stage managed, they are pointless. Labour dont want their comrade's getting too much airtime, the Torys dont want Europe mentioned and even the Libs have stopped wearing sandals.The whole thing is just a massive jolly, and whose picking up the security bill?

 

Indeed!! And with every prospective candidate (right or left) seemingly eminating from a PPE course at Oxbridge or equivalent and the expenses scam still fresh in our minds (even the lovely Caroline Spelman who Dune waxes lyrically about had her own "NannyGate") means that for me Politics is about as interesting as Big Brother!

[Saintandy666]

And the proposed gerrymandering to reduce the number of MPs and change constituency sizes also works in their favour.

 

As has previously been debated at length, the problem with FPTP is that only about 10-15% of electors, those in the 'swing' seats who are open to being manipulated by the respective manifestos, select the Government.

 

That's what I dislike too. The rest of us are forgotten as the parties concentrate on pleasing a couple of hundred thousand people in swing seats.

[Wade Garrett]

dune, I wouldn't vote Tory in a million years, but I would love it if they could sort our country out.

 

Unfortunately, they are so obsessed with their ideology they have no chance.

 

Osbourne's corporate bond scheme is an absolute joke. No chance of kickstarting growth.

[Lord Duckhunter]

And the proposed gerrymandering to reduce the number of MPs and change constituency sizes also works in their favour.

 

As has previously been debated at length, the problem with FPTP is that only about 10-15% of electors, those in the 'swing' seats who are open to being manipulated by the respective manifestos, select the Government.

 

 

Complete and utter rubbish, the only changes that are being made will rebalance the constituency sizes, as the system is skewed towards Labour at present. The only reason the changes will work in the Torys favour is because the system is so unfair against them at present.If the present constituency sizes was so biased in favour of the Torys, the BBC and lefties in the media would have a field day. Had Labour done as well as the Torys in the last election, they would have won a landslide. How on earth can that be fair? Constituancies should be of equal size population wise.

 

The number of MP's should be reduced now that there is devolution for all but the English.

 

I thought we had a vote on changing the electrol system, and FPTP won by a landslide.

[pap]

I thought we had a vote on changing the electrol system, and FPTP won by a landslide.

 

Yes it did, based on a campaign of lies and an alternative that was only marginally better.

 

That doesn't mean that FPTP is inherently good. Just means that we have a lot of liars and a lot of very gullible people.

[bridge too far]

dune, I wouldn't vote Tory in a million years, but I would love it if they could sort our country out.

 

Unfortunately, they are so obsessed with their ideology they have no chance.

 

Osbourne's corporate bond scheme is an absolute joke. No chance of kickstarting growth.

 

But every chance of digging us deeper into the mire as the taxpayer, essentially, would have to pick up the tab if the businesses who have been lent the money (the corporate bond) go bust.

 

Why doesn't he just cut VAT. That would make some difference, especially to the lower paid and those on fixed incomes who pay a disproportionate amount of tax through this regressive tax.

[um pahars]

I thought we had a vote on changing the electrol system, and FPTP won by a landslide.

 

To be fair it was only a half ar5ed attempt at a vote.

 

If you're going to vote on changing something, then you should at least be alowed to vote on all the options. Limiting it only to AV was just pointless.

 

Personally, I think our existing FPTP has served its time (well) and we need to move to a system that reflects the wider views of UK society and give us a chance to move away from the dual party system (and dogma) that we have struggled with in recent years.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Just watching the highlights on BBC Parliament and it's so refreshing to see normal looking people with normal accents talking common sense./QUOTE]

 

...apart from William Hague aside yes?

[um pahars]

Just watching the highlights on BBC Parliament and it's so refreshing to see normal looking people with normal accents talking common sense.

 

...apart from William Hague aside yes?

 

Where's the baseball cap?? You 14 pint, beer swilling, hip dude.

 

No matter how many different "Montana" og "Hague" caps he wears, he will always be a train spotter. Not really the man who I would like leading the UK's interests abroad.

[Wade Garrett]

But every chance of digging us deeper into the mire as the taxpayer, essentially, would have to pick up the tab if the businesses who have been lent the money (the corporate bond) go bust.

 

Why doesn't he just cut VAT. That would make some difference, especially to the lower paid and those on fixed incomes who pay a disproportionate amount of tax through this regressive tax.

 

He said that increased spending and tax-cuts are two sides of the same coin. No different than his corporate bond scheme then, but far more likely to work. Cut VAT and immediately give all small businesses that are VAT registered a boost.

[View From The Top]

Scrap NI from employers, in effect a tax on jobs.

 

That will give the private sector a boost and it certainly needs it.

[OVER THE HILL]

This nicely sums up Osbornes latest idea,

 

http://newsthump.com/2011/10/03/no-rise-in-council-tax-for-all-those-reduced-services-promises-osborne/

[bridge too far]

He said that increased spending and tax-cuts are two sides of the same coin. No different than his corporate bond scheme then, but far more likely to work. Cut VAT and immediately give all small businesses that are VAT registered a boost.

 

You see, it's all very well giving companies help, but for companies to thrive they need customers. If the customers (corporate or the public) aren't spending, then all the help in the world won't actually improve things.

 

It's like being content that the exchange rate favours our companies that export, but what the hell good is that if the people we export to don't have any money to spend?

 

They've just GOT to put money in people's pockets.

 

And, with regard to the Council Tax, as that Tony Travers bloke from the LSE explained, the councils will find other ways to increase their revenues - increased parking charges, charges for many more services. So we won't ACTUALLY see an improvement in our personal finances.

[badgerx16]

Complete and utter rubbish, the only changes that are being made will rebalance the constituency sizes, as the system is skewed towards Labour at present. The only reason the changes will work in the Torys favour is because the system is so unfair against them at present.If the present constituency sizes was so biased in favour of the Torys, the BBC and lefties in the media would have a field day. Had Labour done as well as the Torys in the last election, they would have won a landslide. How on earth can that be fair? Constituancies should be of equal size population wise.

.

So what I said isn't rubbish at all, the proposed changes will work in the Tories favour ! Isn't it nice when we can agree on something.

 

And as for the equal population size, how frequently would you want the boundaries redrawn to compenaste for changing demographics ? Also, when the boundariess are redrawn, what attention is being paid to balancing the spread of potential political support ? It would be quite easy to realign boundaries such that the support for any specified party is diluted to the point of being ineffective.

[pap]

Every government messes with electoral boundaries. The boundaries commission lurched in favour of the Conservative Party during Thatcher's day, and lurched back during New Labour's time in office. Not a new invention.

[aintforever]

I hate party conference season, just bunch of c*cks talking sh!te to a bunch of @rseholes.

[Jonnyboy]

I hate party conference season, just bunch of c*cks talking sh!te to a bunch of @rseholes.

 

[Jonnyboy]

He said that increased spending and tax-cuts are two sides of the same coin. No different than his corporate bond scheme then, but far more likely to work. Cut VAT and immediately give all small businesses that are VAT registered a boost.

 

This, although sometimes it amuses me that my Tory boss is struggling with a massive VAT bill.

[Johnny Bognor]

Scrap NI from employers, in effect a tax on jobs.

 

That will give the private sector a boost and it certainly needs it.

 

I am glad a leftie sees eye to eye with me on this. I have been banging on about this for years

[View From The Top]

I am glad a leftie sees eye to eye with me on this. I have been banging on about this for years

 

Common sense IMHO and I notice that Maude, in the same breath as saying that savings paid the £1billion needed for bin collections and not increasing council tax, said they couldn't cut employers NI as we have to pay off the deficit.

 

Idiots the lot of them.