Fox or Harding?

[doddisalegend]

When Harding is fit who would people like to generally see at LB?

 

IMO

 

Fox - better going forward, good ball delivery, decent free kick, cost a lot of money (for us)

 

Harding - sloppy passer at times, much better defensivley gets in some great tackles

 

both seem prone to the odd lapse in concetration. I might be old fashoined but I think a LB should defend first and get forward second so I think I'd rather Harding.

 

Thoughts?

[Wes Tender]

Harding. I fail to see how Fox was value for what he cost, at least as a LB.

[The Kraken]

I wasn't impressed with Fox last night; he didn't really do anything massively wrong apart from a few dodgy moments but neither did he shine. I just don't see why we've spent (apparently) close to £2M on a player who doesn't really add much to what we already had.

[Golden Balls]

Harding. Much better defensively and I'm not sure we miss much of a delivery from Fox. Although he does take a good free kick, Hardings is hardly bad.

[alpine_saint]

Harding.

 

LB is first and foremost a defender. If Fox cant do that well, as some of you are saying, he needs to be viewed as a back-up LB to Harding and back-up LM to Lallana and Holmes

[Huffton]

I'd like to see them played together, not sure how it would fit in though.

[The Kraken]

Harding.

 

LB is first and foremost a defender. If Fox cant do that well, as some of you are saying, he needs to be viewed as a back-up LB to Harding and back-up LM to Lallana and Holmes

 

To say he doesn't defend well is not accurate IMO. With the way we play, and being a full back behind Lallana, whoever plays out of Fox or Harding is going to look exposed at times. He didn't ever really look all that troubled defensively last night.

 

As a choice out the two of them, I'd probably still go for Fox; just.

[The9]

Fox is an excellent crosser and delivers some good set pieces, he definitely adds something.

 

Harding has been competent and solid defensively and overlaps with Lallana in a way Fox doesn't yet (probably by design as Lallana goes inside instead to create space for Fox of outside to receive a pass like he did with Harding).

 

Horses for courses IMHO, I would like to see if we could double up with them down the left in some places like we did with Dickson towards the end of last season, but that would mean switching Lallana elsewhere.

[stevy777_x]

How about Fox as left midfielder and lallana in the hole just behind Lambert?

[The Kraken]

How about Fox as left midfielder and lallana in the hole just behind Lambert?

 

Can't see that working. If anything we need a striker who is going to get in behind defences. Lambert often drops to get the ball to feet, or is used as an aerial outlet with diagonal balls in. We looked a lot more dangerous last night when de Ridder came on for Connolly as he was alot more direct and willing to both run at defenders and get in behind them.

 

I'm also not convinced Fox would be a better left winger than de Ridder either.

[um pahars]

Harding for me, Fox has just been disappointing IMHO and looked suspect when being attacked.

 

He's certainly not crap, but do struggle to reconcile why we paid what we did for him at the moment.

[the saint in winchester]

It's becoming a landslide. Harding gets my vote.

I couldn't understand signing another LB, as we already had two who were fit for purpose.

Fox and Forte are two signings that made me frown. I think we need another RM first of all as backup to De Ridder, and I would be playing De Ridder every game.

[Liquidshokk]

Anyone who thinks fox is cr@p or doesnt bring anything to the team should watch the extended highlights video of the burnley game. Lost count of how many brilliant crosses fox got into the box and made a couple of brilliant runs down the wing to get into a great position to cross.

 

Agreed about him not looking too great in defense but I definitely think he brings something good to the team in an attacking sense...

 

So I guess they both get my vote and should both play a part. Harding certainly isnt the best defender going..

[Stu Man Do]

Harding for me. He is IMO better defensively and doesn't get pulled inside, very rarely allows a winger the freedom of St Marys to get in a cross either. Decent going forward without being outstanding but does offer a good partnership and understanding with AL.

 

Can't see Fox's future at LB without a significant improvement, perhaps better as a winger?

[doddisalegend]

Anyone who thinks fox is cr@p or doesnt bring anything to the team should watch the extended highlights video of the burnley game. Lost count of how many brilliant crosses fox got into the box and made a couple of brilliant runs down the wing to get into a great position to cross.

 

Agreed about him not looking too great in defense but I definitely think he brings something good to the team in an attacking sense...

 

So I guess they both get my vote and should both play a part. Harding certainly isnt the best defender going..

 

 

Interesting piece by Matt Holland in his football league blog this week about how returning to an old club and getting booed by the fans makes you raise your game. Burnley has been fox's best game by far I wonder if he was more psyched up for that one?

 

I don't think anyone thinks Fox is crap just not great defensivly. We're leaking goals at the back, and Fox doesn't seem to be helping. Harding may not be the greatest defender the world has ever seen but he's dependable and pretty solid defensivley and the back four need tightening up.

[L1Minus10]

Dickson is better than both.....

[stevegrant]

I'm not a massive fan of Harding, but from what I've seen of Fox so far, I'd much rather have Harding at left-back.

[Liquidshokk]

Dickson is better than both.....

 

Dickson is all over the place right now...

[SuperMikey]

Harding has been with this squad for 3 years now.

Fox has been with this squad for a month.

 

Give Fox time to bed in, he will show us his quality.

[sperm_john]

HARDING ...i think fox will be the un doing of us defensively this season

[krissyboy31]

Not seen Fox play yet (for us in the flesh) but I think it's noticeable (maybe a perception) that Lallana doesn't seem to get as involved as he does when linking with Harding.

[Icey Saint]

Harding for me all day

[Chez]

he is not quicker, stronger or better positionally or in the air than Harding, so defensively he doesn't improve us. I've only seen Harding beaten once or twice in two seasons, but he started the season slightly below par for me.

Fox looks classier and he should help us to pass it out short from the back and when in attacking areas offer the quality we need to unlock defences with great crosses. I'm yet to be convinced by Fox, but happy to give him another 4 or 5 games before thinking about dropping him for Harding.

[georgeweahscousin]

Harding compliments Lallana like G Neville complimented Beckham.

 

Fox and Lallana is stifling the latter, and is far more defensively frail.

[Leicestersaint]

Harding or maybe Luke Shaw!

[Denzil]

Harding for me all day

 

This.

[shurlock]

Harding > Fox = marking and tackling

Fox > Harding = delivery

Fox > Harding = possession and composure

Harding > Fox = overlapping with Lallana/hitting the byline

[sandwichsaint]

TBF we haven't seen much of Harding at this level so no guarantee he could step straight into last year's form anyway. I seriously doubt Saints have paid big money for a dud. The player would have been thoroughly scouted and the club aware of his strengths and weaknesses, obviously they decided he was the right fit for what we are trying to achieve in the long run and that NA could improve his game. Of the two players which could you see playing in the PL, now? In a years time? In five years time? That's gotta be Fox all the way, in a nutshell he has more potential than DH who was prob playing somewhere near his max in L1.

 

At the moment I'm happy for Fox to continue but I'm sure NA isn't blind to his positional weaknesses and is working hard to overcome these in training.

 

I think DH had been a great servant over the last few seasons but realistically I don't see us benching a 2m pound full back!!! any time soon.

[Dazza82]

Dont forget Harding and Lallana have had 3 seasons to know how each other play, Given time so will Fox imo we are too quick to judge players (Taxi for Guly anyone?)

[bjk]

Harding,quite simply the better player.

[Ian the Red]

Harding.... unless Fox can learn how to defend as well!!

[Avenue Saint]

Give fox a run. Needs time

[The9]

Can't see that working. If anything we need a striker who is going to get in behind defences. Lambert often drops to get the ball to feet, or is used as an aerial outlet with diagonal balls in. We looked a lot more dangerous last night when de Ridder came on for Connolly as he was alot more direct and willing to both run at defenders and get in behind them.

 

I'm also not convinced Fox would be a better left winger than de Ridder either.

 

I can see Lallana in the hole working - the reason we looked more dangerous when De Ridder came on was because at the same time we started hitting Lambert with cross-field passes from deep and playing off the knock-downs - De Ridder's goal could have been scored by Connolly too, as on that occasion it was about positioning not pace. Fair point about Fox maybe not being better at left mid than De Ridder - as ever it's STEVE~!!!'s defending that's the concern, and I think if we had Guly/De Ridder both wide we'd be susceptible to wing counter-attacks even more than we are already. We need at least one defensive-minded wide man (I'm including Lallana as defensive-minded relatively speaking, he does work back) or we'll just get caned on the break out wide a la Leyton Orient and Rochdale away last season.

[Ken Tone]

Harding has been with this squad for 3 years now.

Fox has been with this squad for a month.

 

Give Fox time to bed in, he will show us his quality.

 

You may well be right and I wouldn't want to write Fox off, but for now Harding is definitely better IMO.

[Sour Mash]

I'd have Harding and I'm really not his biggest fan. Really don't get what Fox offers, especially for £1.8million which is a lot of money for a left-back at this level. He isn't an improvement defensively, isn't great at the short passing, doesn't get to the bye-line. Yes he does book in an excellent cross, but I'm not sure if that's enough on its own.

[Chez]

the fact Harding signed an extended deal after the Fox signing shows to me that Adkins has left the door wide open for him to claim the shirt if he plays well and Fox won't be an automatic choice.

[doddisalegend]

the fact Harding signed an extended deal after the Fox signing shows to me that Adkins has left the door wide open for him to claim the shirt if he plays well and Fox won't be an automatic choice.

 

I agree. I think NA rates Harding some have said that Fox's price tag means he will be an automatic first choice, I can't see Nigel thinking like that TBH.

[pele]

Dickson!

[hypochondriac]

Harding for me. Always liked him.

[Saint Fen]

Harding for me, not his greatest fan but haven't been too impressed with Fox.

 

Fox was shocking on Wednesday night and struggled to find a red and white shirt with his passing. Also failed to get forward despite their being lots of room as Lallana cuts inside.

Harding gets stuck in and is a decent option going forward.

 

Early days for Fox though so maybe judging them in 2 or 3 months time.

 

Also don't think Dickson is too bad, we have decent options at left back.

[up and away]

Harding > Fox = marking and tackling

Fox > Harding = delivery

Fox > Harding = possession and composure

Harding > Fox = overlapping with Lallana/hitting the byline

 

I preferred Butters to Richardson last season, purely on what I thought was the better passer. Richardson was always the better defender, but this season his attacking play has been superb.

 

Fox has excellent delivery, but Harding has been no slouch in doing his bit in front of goals. Just not polarised like many giving black and white to these issues and happy to leave it to the manager. How many are still saying Schneiderlin must play this weekend? that should be worth a couple of goals.

[beatlesaint]

Another vote for Harding here.

 

Fox just cannot defend, is very rarely within a country mile of the player he should be marking and so far has not looked worth £1.8m.

He will need time to settle in I suppose but I agree that Harding and Lallana's understanding is very strong and benefits the team.

[shurlock]

I preferred Butters to Richardson last season, purely on what I thought was the better passer. Richardson was always the better defender, but this season his attacking play has been superb.

 

Fox has excellent delivery, but Harding has been no slouch in doing his bit in front of goals. Just not polarised like many giving black and white to these issues and happy to leave it to the manager. How many are still saying Schneiderlin must play this weekend? that should be worth a couple of goals.

 

Agree - can't be too didactic about these things. Nothing is set in stone. For instance, Fox's defensive play might just be down to a lack of understanding which will be ironed with greater familiarity of our set-up and team mates. You cannot make a championship team of the year voted by your fellow pros if you're only good at going forward.

[chivvy1664]

Fox at home Harding away, unless it opposition we should be beating away that dont have a decent right winger. Likewise Guly /De Ridder although de ridder is pushing to start full time on the right or Upfront.

[hutch]

.... or both?

 

Why not try starting with Harding when he's fit, with Fox on the bench, and bring him on later. Maybe even bring him on for somebody else and have them both on at the same time. That might work.

[itchen_dan]

Both. Harding left back and Fox left mid. Put Lallana in a free role just off of Lambert infield more.

[Saint Fen]

Maybe Cardiff played well? Maybe Saints didn't?

 

Maybe that space with Lallana cutting inside just meant an exposed left back, which is often a problem for Harding or Fox. I don't see how it matters if the team doesn't take their chances and makes defensive errors as on Wednesday. Punishing Fox seems hugely over the top.

 

No I thought we were the better team creating decent chances but defending poorly on a couple of occassions. I wasn't being too damning on Fox just stating his passing was poor and there was plenty of space for him too get forward which he didn't.

 

As I say early days for Fox, he will get better just needs time to settle in and judge them him in a couple of months

[Bearsy]

I remember it taking a long time for people to warm to Kelvin Davis because they thought we'd overpaid, I reckon Fox is going to suffer the same problem.

[SNSUN]

Harding is still my favourite player because of his sheer comittment he gives in a Saints shirt. He's a good left back, not the best, but I always feel comfortable when I see his name on the team sheet.

 

I've yet to see Fox, but I think he'd have to go a long way to displace Harding. I feel sorry for Dickson though, but it does seem like his time here is numbered.

 

If Fox is better going forward, I still think he should be moved further up - after all, Lallana can play anywhere - I'd like to see Adam as a support striker to Lambert - I think he's got the brain for it.

[John McGrath's Jockstrap]

Harding not really got going this season with injuries etc. We did need more cover than Dickson who undoubtedly would be exposed at this level defensively. Whether Fox was worth the 1.6M price tag is very debatable for me, defensively not as good as Harding (as well as link up down left with Lallana), but better dead ball delivery? - but a lot of money to pay for this alone !. It does take time for some players to bed into the team/living in the area etc etc.....as many threads have said probably too early to judge just yet.

 

2 interesting buys Fox and Forte. The jury is out for me on both - most of the time in NA we trust, but these 2 not at all convincing.

 

In fact both FB positions are not the real deal for me despite the recent rave reviews for Frazer. My view is that longer term (might even be this season) that the real future lies in Shaw and Stephens. If you've not checked them out do so......