Ed Miliband speech

[pap]

There's a danger in focusing on the man here, and not what he has to say.

 

I think a lot of the things he said, such as rewarding responsibility, made sense. The problem is that the messenger, and by implication, the messenger's buddies, dilute the message.

 

My local MP is Luciana Berger. She is in her mid twenties, and prior to 2010, don't think she'd ever set foot in Liverpool in her life. She's from a highly privileged background, and represents a pretty deprived area of the country. No harm to her, but she's the personification of what is wrong with the Labour Party at the moment. They parachuted her in, relying on the morons who'll vote for a ham sandwich if it was wearing a Labour rosette.

 

I'd like to see half the Commons picked by lottery. At least that way, there's a guarantee that some of our politicians come from the real world, and have real experience. Might even stop some of the more stupid decisions from going through.

[solentstars]

Cant see that happening myself Johnny. They will have to kick out greece, ireland and portugal, possibly italy and maybe even spain, but the core of the eurozone will retain the currency. Its a german/french project when alls said and done.

i agree and its will leave the weak economys outside the eurozone and who should never have been allowed to join the euro in the first place hence why the uk will never be a member and the the loons of ukip grannys and grandads can go back to collecting their pensions:)

[Saintandy666]

They are laying into Rory Weal now(the Mail and that...), but to be honest it seems as if what he said is the truth... so what if he was rich before the recession... his house still got repossessed and what not!

[bridge too far]

They are laying into Rory Weal now(the Mail and that...), but to be honest it seems as if what he said is the truth... so what if he was rich before the recession... his house still got repossessed and what not!

 

And now they're criticising him for going to a selective grammar school. Well, hello - that's the education system in Kent. No comprehensive system there; it's grammar school or secondary school.

[Saintandy666]

And now they're criticising him for going to a selective grammar school. Well, hello - that's the education system in Kent. No comprehensive system there; it's grammar school or secondary school.

 

If anything it's more a journey going from rich to poor and then realising the importance of the welfare state.

[Viking Warrior]

You have to laugh at some of the labour crap coming out of the conference. Look at yvette coopers announcement a heavy weight review of English and welsh police forces . Why didn't labour do it when they were in power for 18 years now millipede is talking about making the uk a bargain more like bargin basement and pound shops to be the new tescos

[bridge too far]

Perhaps the review has been commissioned because of the very real concerns of front-line police officers and Chief Superintendents about the large scale cuts and the proposed election of Commissioners?

 

If so many people actually working in the police forces are so opposed to the Coalition's plans, it's only fair to have a wholescale review of the issues? Those issues didn't arise when there was a Labour government.

 

Of course, Labour could sit back and do nothing but it's the job of opposition to examine arising issues. Just a thought.

[hypochondriac]

And now they're criticising him for going to a selective grammar school. Well, hello - that's the education system in Kent. No comprehensive system there; it's grammar school or secondary school.

 

What did you think of Ed Nose Day's performance?

[scotty]

Perhaps the review has been commissioned because of the very real concerns of front-line police officers and Chief Superintendents about the large scale cuts and the proposed election of Commissioners?

 

If so many people actually working in the police forces are so opposed to the Coalition's plans, it's only fair to have a wholescale review of the issues? Those issues didn't arise when there was a Labour government.

 

Of course, Labour could sit back and do nothing but it's the job of opposition to examine arising issues. Just a thought.

 

Labour didnt have to cope with the backlash of the global financial meltdown, or rather the consequences of it. They dealt with the initial problem, thats fair enough, but its payback time now. Also, Labour inherited a rising economy with the best indicators for a generation, and cash in the coffers. They immediately raided the pension funds for a quick and massive windfall, and plssed most of it away. I'm broadly left-wing and have a strong dislike of the tories, but its hard to argue that they walked into the poker game and got given a winning hand.

[bridge too far]

What did you think of Ed Nose Day's performance?

 

I've never thought him to be the greatest orator on earth and he sort of proved that yesterday.

 

He shouldn't try to be funny because it doesn't work.

 

But I don't for one moment doubt his sincerity and I think he showed a willingness to lead on thorny issues (as he has in the past e.g. phone hacking). There's no doubt that there's a lot wrong with some of the values of this country and he's right to question those values and talk about how they could be changed.

 

One of shallow values in this country is the willingness of people to judge people soley on celebrity, charisma and appearance. So, by so wittily referring to his nose, you have successfully reinforced said shallow value.

[scotty]

He's currently getting ripped to shreds by kirsty wark. ffs, I'm starting to feel sorry for him, he's like a puppy being beaten. How long are labour going to drag out his misery?

[hypochondriac]

I've never thought him to be the greatest orator on earth and he sort of proved that yesterday.

 

He shouldn't try to be funny because it doesn't work.

 

But I don't for one moment doubt his sincerity and I think he showed a willingness to lead on thorny issues (as he has in the past e.g. phone hacking). There's no doubt that there's a lot wrong with some of the values of this country and he's right to question those values and talk about how they could be changed.

 

One of shallow values in this country is the willingness of people to judge people soley on celebrity, charisma and appearance. So, by so wittily referring to his nose, you have successfully reinforced said shallow value.

 

Erm. Those weren't my words, they were the words of Ed in his speech! Will you be voting for him to be PM?

[Special K]

I've never thought him to be the greatest orator on earth and he sort of proved that yesterday.

 

He shouldn't try to be funny because it doesn't work.

 

But I don't for one moment doubt his sincerity and I think he showed a willingness to lead on thorny issues (as he has in the past e.g. phone hacking). There's no doubt that there's a lot wrong with some of the values of this country and he's right to question those values and talk about how they could be changed.

 

One of shallow values in this country is the willingness of people to judge people soley on celebrity, charisma and appearance. So, by so wittily referring to his nose, you have successfully reinforced said shallow value.

 

There was so little content in what he said, that we are only left with this.

[eurosaint]

I'm not sure if that is trolling or not...

 

But they would probably cut tax, like get rid of the 50% tax band. Parties like the Liberal Democrats and Labour would probably either cut taxes for the poorer or invest in the welfare state with any surplus money.

 

Or just waste it on quangos, unworkable NHS computer systems etc, etc... like they did for the 13 years of government !!!

[CB Saint]

The trouble that I see Ed having is convincing an electorate that he is a credible custodian of the economy, when both he and ed balls were special advisors to Gordon Brown during his tenure as chancellor. It will be a hard sell.

[dune]

Ahead of the Labour conference opinions of Ed Miliband are generally negative. His overall approval rating stands at minus 33, with the boost in perceptions that he enjoyed from “hackgate” having almost completely disappeared. Ratings of his leadership so far are miserable – only 18% of people think he has provided an effective opposition, 64% think he has not. Only 19% think he has made it clear what he stands for, 66% do not. Only 19% of people think he would be up to the job of Prime Minister, compared to 62% who think he would not.

His ratings are poor even amongst Labour supporters – 51% of Labour voters do not think Miliband has provided an effective opposition, 52% think he has not made it clear what he stands for. 45% of Labour voters think would be up to the job of Prime Minister, 34% think he would not.

36% of people think that the party would have been better off with David Miliband, including 45% of Labour supporters. Only 6% think the party would have been worse off with David Miliband, 35% think it would be no different. Asked who the best leader of the Labour party would be, 30% of people pick David Miliband to a rather cutting 9% for Ed Miliband.

 

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/4077

[scotty]

Ahead of the Labour conference opinions of Ed Miliband are generally negative. His overall approval rating stands at minus 33, with the boost in perceptions that he enjoyed from “hackgate” having almost completely disappeared. Ratings of his leadership so far are miserable – only 18% of people think he has provided an effective opposition, 64% think he has not. Only 19% think he has made it clear what he stands for, 66% do not. Only 19% of people think he would be up to the job of Prime Minister, compared to 62% who think he would not.

His ratings are poor even amongst Labour supporters – 51% of Labour voters do not think Miliband has provided an effective opposition, 52% think he has not made it clear what he stands for. 45% of Labour voters think would be up to the job of Prime Minister, 34% think he would not.

36% of people think that the party would have been better off with David Miliband, including 45% of Labour supporters. Only 6% think the party would have been worse off with David Miliband, 35% think it would be no different. Asked who the best leader of the Labour party would be, 30% of people pick David Miliband to a rather cutting 9% for Ed Miliband.

 

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/4077

 

Interesting statistics dune, and tbph it only really confirms my opinion, which is that Ed is just there to take the blows. As and when labour reckon they have a half decent chance at power he will get booted out and his brother installed faster than you can say fall-guy.

[dune]

Interesting statistics dune, and tbph it only really confirms my opinion, which is that Ed is just there to take the blows. As and when labour reckon they have a half decent chance at power he will get booted out and his brother installed faster than you can say fall-guy.

 

I can't see that being possible. I'm currently reading a book based on the story of cain and abel and it's not a vote winner. I think the alternative is Ed Balls and he's got even less appeal than Mr Bean.

[shurlock]

I can't see that being possible. I'm currently reading a book based on the story of cain and abel and it's not a vote winner. I think the alternative is Ed Balls and he's got even less appeal than Mr Bean.

 

You're more a sadiq khan man, i can tell

[Saintandy666]

You're more a sadiq khan man, i can tell

 

I dislike Sadiq Khan. He is obsequious in relation to Ed Miliband.

[Wade Garrett]

Interesting statistics dune, and tbph it only really confirms my opinion, which is that Ed is just there to take the blows. As and when labour reckon they have a half decent chance at power he will get booted out and his brother installed faster than you can say fall-guy.

 

I've thought that for a while. If Milliband D comes in and recruits Purnell and Yvette Cooper to the top table, they will give the Tories a real run for their money.

 

At this present time, Labour look dead in the water. And this from someone who hasn't voted for anyone else in the last 23 years.

[View From The Top]

I've thought that for a while. If Milliband D comes in and recruits Purnell and Yvette Cooper to the top table, they will give the Tories a real run for their money.

 

At this present time, Labour look dead in the water. And this from someone who hasn't voted for anyone else in the last 23 years.

 

100% agreement.

[Saintandy666]

I don't think it will be so easy for another Miliband to come in.

[dune]

I don't think it will be so easy for another Miliband to come in.

 

Of course it won't happen.

[dune]

Really enjoyed tonights Question Time. Labour took one hell of a kicking in Liverpool of all places.

[Saintandy666]

Really enjoyed tonights Question Time. Labour took one hell of a kicking in Liverpool of all places.

 

Not really.

[View From The Top]

Of course it won't happen.

 

With your record that makes it sure to happen.

[dune]

With your record that makes it sure to happen.

 

Well given that you've done everything and know everything clearly you are right.

[bridge too far]

Erm. Those weren't my words, they were the words of Ed in his speech! Will you be voting for him to be PM?

 

Nobody gets to vote for the PM. Goodness only knows how many times this misconception has been aired.

 

I shall vote as I always do for someone to represent my constituency as MP. Sadly, my choice won't win as s/he will be up against Dave.

[dune]

Nobody gets to vote for the PM. Goodness only knows how many times this misconception has been aired.

 

I shall vote as I always do for someone to represent my constituency as MP. Sadly, my choice won't win as s/he will be up against Dave.

 

Can you get me a signed photo?

[pap]

Nobody gets to vote for the PM. Goodness only knows how many times this misconception has been aired.

 

I shall vote as I always do for someone to represent my constituency as MP. Sadly, my choice won't win as s/he will be up against Dave.

 

And even on the off-chance that you get your man/woman in, they still won't represent you. They'll either be in the top echelons of government, a back-bench rebel with an opinion that doesn't count, a whipped-to-feck junior MP who'll do whatever he/she is told, or a refusenik member of the opposition.

 

Representative democracy is a term which has no meaning. They don't, and actually can't represent you, and it isn't democracy.

[Saintandy666]

And even on the off-chance that you get your man/woman in, they still won't represent you. They'll either be in the top echelons of government, a back-bench rebel with an opinion that doesn't count, a whipped-to-feck junior MP who'll do whatever he/she is told, or a refusenik member of the opposition.

 

Representative democracy is a term which has no meaning. They don't, and actually can't represent you, and it isn't democracy.

 

Yes, but in representative democracy they aren't meant to be represent their constituents views to parliament. They are meant to use their intellect in order to make decisions for what they believe is in the best interests of their constituents. Remember that they also run on a manifesto.

[scotty]

I can't see that being possible. I'm currently reading a book based on the story of cain and abel and it's not a vote winner. I think the alternative is Ed Balls and he's got even less appeal than Mr Bean.

 

I notice Ed Balls has now gone on record saying he wont stand for the labour leadership, and will stand aside in favour of his wife.

[Saintandy666]

I notice Ed Balls has now gone on record saying he wont stand for the labour leadership, and will stand aside in favour of his wife.

 

Now... Yvette Cooper would be an interesting one, unknown, and not tainted by Blair/Brown.

[hypochondriac]

Nobody gets to vote for the PM. Goodness only knows how many times this misconception has been aired.

 

I shall vote as I always do for someone to represent my constituency as MP. Sadly, my choice won't win as s/he will be up against Dave.

 

You know exactly what I meant. I'll rephrase, would you be happy with Ed as PM?

[pap]

Yes, but in representative democracy they aren't meant to be represent their constituents views to parliament. They are meant to use their intellect in order to make decisions for what they believe is in the best interests of their constituents. Remember that they also run on a manifesto.

 

Let me pull you up on a few points.

 

1) Of course they're meant to represent constituents' interests. That is their defined function. That is exactly what they are supposed to do.

2) Typically, they do not use their intellect to determine the best things for their constituents. It's normally spent on working out how they can remain selected by their party, which is not even the same thing.

3) Most manifestos are not worth the paper they're written on. Opposition parties that spend years moaning about the current government's policies normally do feck all to reverse it, normally because the status quo is quite convenient. Also, manifestos are devised at a fixed point in time. Did any of us think that Labour would get involved in the oil wars of the 2000's?

 

Democracy, as practiced now, is little more than the illusion of choice. I'm the head of a four person family, and it is troublesome enough to reconcile all the conflicting wishes of that family. It's absolutely outrageous to suggest that an MP can represent the views of 65K people, just as it is completely barmy to suggest that one PM can reconcile the wishes of 65million.

 

When it comes down to it, politicians are transient middlemen. They shape the debate, decide what is or what is not on the table, and mostly, they're wrong.

 

Frankly, it's disappointing to see so many people see politics through the prism of these people, especially since they are so far removed from day-to-day reality.

[Saintandy666]

Let me pull you up on a few points.

 

1) Of course they're meant to represent constituents' interests. That is their defined function. That is exactly what they are supposed to do.

2) Typically, they do not use their intellect to determine the best things for their constituents. It's normally spent on working out how they can remain selected by their party, which is not even the same thing.

3) Most manifestos are not worth the paper they're written on. Opposition parties that spend years moaning about the current government's policies normally do feck all to reverse it, normally because the status quo is quite convenient. Also, manifestos are devised at a fixed point in time. Did any of us think that Labour would get involved in the oil wars of the 2000's?

 

Democracy, as practiced now, is little more than the illusion of choice. I'm the head of a four person family, and it is troublesome enough to reconcile all the conflicting wishes of that family. It's absolutely outrageous to suggest that an MP can represent the views of 65K people, just as it is completely barmy to suggest that one PM can reconcile the wishes of 65million.

 

When it comes down to it, politicians are transient middlemen. They shape the debate, decide what is or what is not on the table, and mostly, they're wrong.

 

Frankly, it's disappointing to see so many people see politics through the prism of these people, especially since they are so far removed from day-to-day reality.

 

Hey, I'm not saying I'm agreeing with or disagreeing with this. I'm just presenting it as it is.

 

Mill, the father of modern Liberal Democracy said exactly the same as me. Representatives are elected to use their own intellect to make judgements on behalf of their constituents. They are not there to put forward the view of everyone in their constituency, though of course they can do that if they want.

 

If you want a type of democracy where the people's views are actually integral, go for direct democracy. In representative democracy, you just have to pick between certain fixed visions.

[Saintandy666]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trustee_model_of_representation

 

I don't agree with all that he and others around the time said(especially people of less intelligence not getting the vote), but this is what our democracy is based upon.

[bridge too far]

You know exactly what I meant. I'll rephrase, would you be happy with Ed as PM?

 

I'd certainly be happier with him as PM than the current gruesome twosome!