alpine_saint Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I am totally astounded at the amount of stick and abuse being directed at NC on here in recent days. The man who is masterminding our return to the big time and who has overseen putting a smile back on the faces of (most) Saints fans. What the f**k is the problem with some of you ? Do you want the club to fail again ? I love the contribution to our history that LM and MLT have made, but it is history. If the club fails, all we will have is memories and old paper-cuttings to remember. I find it utterly TRAGIC that some sort of open warfare is raging between old club legends and the current management, and subsequently between factions of fans, but if I am force to choose a side (which I dont want to), it MUST be the current management - they are taking the club forwards, and without them there would be no club. Why dont you all stop obsessing about the feud, let the individuals involved carry it on amongst themselves, and celebrate being top of the NPC in a promotion position for the PL ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 What was wrong with the existing 5 threads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 The difference is, without the past there is no future... Without the likes of Le Tissier and McMenemy would we have the club that Cortese now runs? I think not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 27 September, 2011 The difference is, without the past there is no future... Without the likes of Le Tissier and McMenemy would we have the club that Cortese now runs? I think not... I dont know how you can say that, really. What evidence is there that LM at any point stopped the club going out of business ? MLT kept us almost single-handedly in the PL a few times, but at a time when money was not the be-all and end-all; if we had been relegated in 2000 instead of 2005, would the chain of events that nearly led to us being wound up with debts really have played out like that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_saints Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I really don't give a f**k about most of all this tbf. I like Cortese because he saved us and will probably make our future pretty good. I like Le Tissier because he is our biggest legend and also saved us- more than once. It's possible to like both, and let them get on with their fall out or whatever it is, and stop being a bunch of tarts gossiping over it all. Women are bad enough buying their "celeb" gossip magazines, but this forum is the same thing in a different form at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vershinin Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 Completely agree Alps. I love both NC and MLT and wish they would both kindly STFU and enjoy how ****ing good it feels to be associated with SFC at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 27 September, 2011 What was wrong with the existing 5 threads? They are mud slinging in either direction; this thread is a genuine attempt at reminding the mud-slingers about what is important. I suspect there is some Lowe/Wilde-era score-settling going on here still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 (edited) I really don't give a f**k about most of all this tbf. I like Cortese because he saved us and will probably make our future pretty good. I like Le Tissier because he is our biggest legend and also saved us- more than once. It's possible to like both, and let them get on with their fall out or whatever it is, and stop being a bunch of tarts gossiping over it all. Women are bad enough buying their "celeb" gossip magazines, but this forum is the same thing in a different form at the moment. If it's possible to like both, why is the Liebherrs representative and MLT/LM playing this out in public? By putting it in the public domain I would suggest they are asking us to choose sides. Edited 27 September, 2011 by dune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 The difference is, without the past there is no future... Without the likes of Le Tissier and McMenemy would we have the club that Cortese now runs? I think not... What a ridiculous statement. Who knows where this club would have been. It's easy to assume the negative but really you cannot absoultely 100% know where this club would have been without any of it's contributors; players, coaches, managers, directors, fans, insolvency practitioners, property developers living with their parents... Controversial but if Matt had looked after himself more, who knows where he / we might have been. Anyway, you should never forget where you have come from and you should always look to the future but it does not mean you owe your past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 Future obviously. However, I don't like the way that some people think to like Cortese means you have to dislke Matt or Lawrie. I like all three of them, but do wish they would put an end to the feud. Water under the bridge etc. If it wasn't for the feud, the closet skates on here (or are they seriously misinformed saints fans?) like DockerP and Hypo, would really struggle to find ammunition in their attempt to post anti-Cortese drivel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West End Saint Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I love what NC is doing at Saints & the forward momentum & ambition the club is being well run & fair play to him he wants & demands success BUT Football clubs are built on there history & ours is 1 to be proud of we have some proper bona fide Legends and they should be treated with the respect they have earned. Fair enough the club is bigger than any one person this fued needs to be stopped NC should get LM & MLT back into the fold & use them to promote the club a football club is nothing without its history it defines what we are all about. The rights & wrongs of this petty row don't matter we have the chance to create some history the club is going in the right direction NC should offer the olive branch & get everyone connected with the club onside & striving for the success we all want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickfire Double Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I dont know how you can say that, really. What evidence is there that LM at any point stopped the club going out of business ? MLT kept us almost single-handedly in the PL a few times, but at a time when money was not the be-all and end-all; if we had been relegated in 2000 instead of 2005, would the chain of events that nearly led to us being wound up with debts really have played out like that ? This, pretty much. I'm not old enough to remember the Lawrie Mac era. I grew up watching Matty, he's a true Saints legend and was as good a footballer as I ever expect to have the privilege to watch. But who's to say what might have happened if he'd moved on, or picked up some sort of career ending injury. The common consensus seems to be we'd have dropped like a stone. Maybe though (suspend your disbelief for a moment), we'd have somehow forged a side capable of winning without Matty in it...? It didn't happen, so we don't know. But we do know that we're currently enjoying our best start to a season since ... Well pretty much ever. We're on a record-breaking streak of home wins, we're financially secure, team spirit is at an absolute high under an enthusiastic and tactically proficient manager, and we're putting together an excellent squad with a solid infrastructure behind it. Quite frankly, if the man behind all that doesn't want to kiss Matty's arse, I'm not about to criticise him for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I am totally astounded at the amount of stick and abuse being directed at NC on here in recent days. The man who is masterminding our return to the big time and who has overseen putting a smile back on the faces of (most) Saints fans. What the f**k is the problem with some of you ? Do you want the club to fail again ? I love the contribution to our history that LM and MLT have made, but it is history. If the club fails, all we will have is memories and old paper-cuttings to remember. I find it utterly TRAGIC that some sort of open warfare is raging between old club legends and the current management, and subsequently between factions of fans, but if I am force to choose a side (which I dont want to), it MUST be the current management - they are taking the club forwards, and without them there would be no club. Why dont you all stop obsessing about the feud, let the individuals involved carry it on amongst themselves, and celebrate being top of the NPC in a promotion position for the PL ??? Blimey!! Another post by Alpine that seems to be fairly positive and sensible! Has someone stolen your identity?? A couple of points:- Firstly, do we actually KNOW that " some sort of open warfare is raging between old club legends and the current management" or is it something that has been blown up all out of proportion. It may well be that they don`t like each other very much but that is a different thing. Secondly, would this have gotten to this stage if Mr Stelling hadn`t have sounded off on Sky. The really sad thing about all of this, is that the "trouble" is being caused by certain posters on here who have their own agendas and will look for any scrap of "information", or opportunity to beat their particular target with. I have heard transfer rumours printed in the Sun referred as rubbish because it is in The Sun, but because it suits certain people, the current story is being interpeted in certain ways and being treated as gospel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolokov Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I am totally astounded at the amount of stick and abuse being directed at NC on here in recent days. The man who is masterminding our return to the big time and who has overseen putting a smile back on the faces of (most) Saints fans. What the f**k is the problem with some of you ? Do you want the club to fail again ? I love the contribution to our history that LM and MLT have made, but it is history. If the club fails, all we will have is memories and old paper-cuttings to remember. I find it utterly TRAGIC that some sort of open warfare is raging between old club legends and the current management, and subsequently between factions of fans, but if I am force to choose a side (which I dont want to), it MUST be the current management - they are taking the club forwards, and without them there would be no club. Why dont you all stop obsessing about the feud, let the individuals involved carry it on amongst themselves, and celebrate being top of the NPC in a promotion position for the PL ??? Couldn't agree more. Reading the subject, I thought this would be another pessimistic, retarded thread!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 The really sad thing about all of this, is that the "trouble" is being caused by certain posters on here who have their own agendas and will look for any scrap of "information", or opportunity to beat their particular target with. I expect when you watched the Libya coverage you blamed those on the pro Gadaffi demo's more than you blamed Gadaffi himself? BTW i'm not comparing Cortese or MLT or LM to a power hungry dictator, just making the point that people like MOG are focussing on the symptom and not the cause of this whole affair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I hate Alpine but I agree. Forum full of mongs moaning about a petty disagreement in the media. Who f**king cares, We are winning. And no it wont effect the team. NC is brilliant. Takes no ****. Fair play to him. I think this thread shows that alpine hasn't got a clue. How stupid. Both are really important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I expect when you watched the Libya coverage you blamed those on the pro Gadaffi demo's more than you blamed Gadaffi himself? BTW i'm not comparing Cortese or MLT or LM to a power hungry dictator, just making the point that people like MOG are focussing on the symptom and not the cause of this whole affair. I don`t know what the cause is. I don`t know the TRUTH of the situation - obviously you do. I only know what I read in the papers and what various posters put on here. How close is any of it to the actual truth? What I DO know is that people on this forum jump at any little tit-bit of gossip and turn it into "fact" and then use that "fact" to back up their own particular views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 "How can I say that?" That "ridiculous statement"?? Take out McMenemy and Le Tissier would anyone have taken us over? Without McMenemy would we have attracted the likes of Keegan etc? Without Le Tissier would we have been in the Premiership for a long as we were? The very fact that we were an attractive proposition was partially due to the input of those two... **** me, I've heard it all. now.. Are people so desperate to support the new regime that they'll now try and wipe out the legacy of the people that speak out against him? We can't re-write history or see what life would have been without those two but you show me ANY club that has fans that would turn on genuine legends like some have on here? Would Liverpool fans be-grudge Kenny Dalgleish a ticket free or not?? Would Arsenal fans be slagging of Henry or Wright? No? **** me people, no one's saying Cortese isn't doing a damn fine job but are we that shallow we'll turn on club legends like Le Tiss and McMenemy? We ask loyalty off our new stars, and yet with LeTissier, the ultimate one club man, we turn on him at the first sign of any controversy. If you were Adam Lallana or Ricky Lambert would you give a **** about us seeing the way some fans can turn on club legends?? If anyone thinks we'd be anything other than a Charlton or a Sheffield United without the input of Le Tissier or McMenemy, they're deluded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPY Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 Forget the past and we might as well be MK Dons. Don't look to the future and we might as well be Portsmouth. Have both... we'll be Southampton.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmbrm Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 Thought the title was intersting, but the OP was just yet another rant. there will be another management along in a few years, and another a few years after that. Ad infinitum. My original thoughts were that the club was its heritage and its history, without which it is just MK Dons mark 2. Of course if it has NO future then the past is worht nothing, but of course it does have a future, whether it with Cortese as the boss (?) or someone else. So for me give me LM, MLT, memories of happy days and hope for more of them. NC is nbot the opnly person who could have bnought our current success. More than that he needs to earn over the years, and not by ******ing of fans, press,other clubs etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 Forget the past and we might as well be MK Dons. Don't look to the future and we might as well be Portsmouth. Have both... we'll be Southampton.. Nicely put. NC might not be everyone's cup of tea, he takes no prisoners, goes about everything in a very business-like manner and doesn't appear overly concerned if he's popular or not as long as he is making decisions that he feels are right for SFC. It's very difficult to argue that he hasn't overseen exemplary performance from the The Club in his time here and long may it continue. If things don't work out then it's maybe time to review but for now it's a great time to be an SFC supporter and we should all get behind The Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 Quite frankly, who cares. We're playing good football, have a great manager, look in great shape and it's a great time to be a Saints fan. I couldn't care less about what the Chairman does or doesn't do, so long as we keep playing good football and have a club to support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 The past does not win us games. The future is uncertain. It is those who are here now, who are working to make sure we achieve something now that are important. We all like the romance of the past when times were good. We all shudder at the horror of when times were bad. The here and now can affect the future but it cannot change the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I liken it to having two good friends who are having a petty argument. I'm not going to take sides (nor should anyone IMO - what does it achieve, except more division?), I just want them to sort it out or move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 Forget the past and we might as well be MK Dons. Don't look to the future and we might as well be Portsmouth. Have both... we'll be Southampton.. With that and Minty's comment we have the middle ground... I like the middle ground, I think I'll stay here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 The general feeling seems to be in favour of all three for their contributions to our history. I think there's just a handful of people trying to make mischief and they have failed. Most people I've come across can see beyond the tabloid stuff and realise that if you support NC that doesn't mean you are against anyone else. Though I'm staggered that anyone if asked the ridiculous question would seriously chose the past over the present and the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudders Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 Forget the past and we might as well be MK Dons. Don't look to the future and we might as well be Portsmouth. Have both... we'll be Southampton.. The thing is, this 'should' be obvious. I don't understand how some people on here seem to be able to just write off the past or discredit the future of the club and take sides with either one or the other? They are both equally as important as each other and when you join them up you get the present which see us in the best position we’ve been in for years, certainly not a position where people should be complaining about the pathetic rubbish that we’re seeing at the moment! It's sad that both sides seem to have some issues with each other, but even sadder that we're all getting dragged into it and taking sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COMEONYOUREDS Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I am totally astounded at the amount of stick and abuse being directed at NC on here in recent days. The man who is masterminding our return to the big time and who has overseen putting a smile back on the faces of (most) Saints fans. What the f**k is the problem with some of you ? Do you want the club to fail again ? I love the contribution to our history that LM and MLT have made, but it is history. If the club fails, all we will have is memories and old paper-cuttings to remember. I find it utterly TRAGIC that some sort of open warfare is raging between old club legends and the current management, and subsequently between factions of fans, but if I am force to choose a side (which I dont want to), it MUST be the current management - they are taking the club forwards, and without them there would be no club. Why dont you all stop obsessing about the feud, let the individuals involved carry it on amongst themselves, and celebrate being top of the NPC in a promotion position for the PL ??? 100% agree There are only about 3 people who want Cortese out out of the entire fanbase, and they post on here a million times over under diffrent usernames to make it look like people agree with them. bizzare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I am totally astounded at the amount of stick and abuse being directed at NC on here in recent days. The man who is masterminding our return to the big time and who has overseen putting a smile back on the faces of (most) Saints fans. What the f**k is the problem with some of you ? Do you want the club to fail again ? This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 It is only a couple of people who are having a pop at Cortese. Sadly they are the ones who seem to be able to post all day everyday so are the most active/vocal posters which makes it look like there are more then there are. Most sane people i think realise that the beef between Cortese and MLT is actually nothing to do with the fans. They won't pick sides. In answer to the question though you should always respect your past. Our most recent past has been pretty terrible. At one point were we not the lowest south side in the league? Who would of thought that 10 years ago? Going through that makes me appreciate what is happening now even more. There are so many good times from the past but sadly that is what they are, the past. You can't live there. It can't be changed (unless you know Doc Brown). The future is un-certain, events that will happen have yet to happen. People say we will never see the likes of a xyz player again. But then one pops up. Our history is full of great players. Who knows if Cortese does stick to his plan and we do reach the Champions League (dreaming for now) then what is to say someone like Lallana can't become our new hero? We could be at the start of a Saints golden era where we not only get to the top flight but are there to compete not just to survive relegation battles. If we all stick together, keep the positive outlook and keep the team spirit then who knows where we can end up. Going the other way and giving in to negativity and anger only leads to one path, self destruction. And i think most of us have had enough of that thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 27 September, 2011 The past does not win us games. The future is uncertain. It is those who are here now, who are working to make sure we achieve something now that are important. We all like the romance of the past when times were good. We all shudder at the horror of when times were bad. The here and now can affect the future but it cannot change the past. Exactly, R, this is what I was trying to say, albeit not so eloquently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 27 September, 2011 With that and Minty's comment we have the middle ground... I like the middle ground, I think I'll stay here... Daren, I am not taking sides (whereas you and a few others seem to be doing so...), in fact I expressly said I dont want to. I also said that I love LM and MLT for their contribution to the clubs heritage. All I said was if I were forced to take sides, NC brings more value to the club in the now than wallowing in nice warm memories from bygone times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 Fabulous another thread to rant about nc . While we are at it lawrie mac is a better manager than Nigel only if you prefer alehouse brawlers type of footy with wooden studs and laced up leather balls and the smell of dubbin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I think this thread shows that alpine hasn't got a clue. How stupid. Both are really important. No they are not. 2 years ago we had a Forum Match at SMS. We were in admin and things looked REALLY bleak. I parked in the (then free) car park with my lad prior to going into the stadium. We both stood there and looked as we had a real fear that in a few weeks it could all be gone. everything, all the memories, all the history, just a big useless empty stadium and maybe some attempts to use it to play in the BSQ. At that moment in time we had NO future. As a result our history was about to be lost. All that would have remained would have been memories. NC found out that Saints could be a "good deal". he sold that "deal" to Marcus, and together they started to build something. First the rescue and then the future. Now we have a future. So that means we can still have a past. Football is about two teams COMPETING. It is about WINNING. The day it is about being a reality TV popularity contest or some lunatic Socialist PC nobody is allowed to win in case the people not good enough feel upset rubbish will be the day that the ENTIRE sport dies. I do NOT like NC. I have stated that time and time again. But taking OUR club back up the league is NOT about Popularity it is about winning football matches. All this rubbish stems from a bunch of people who conspired to kill our football club in an attempt to oust Lowe. they and the posters on here & TUI that think we are some Social club can just all feck off. You are posion and go and live your own sad posionous lives where you deserve - alone. Not at MY club. When NC starts losing matches then he can go but right now? You REALLY have to be sick to want him gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I am totally astounded at the amount of stick and abuse being directed at NC on here in recent days. The man who is masterminding our return to the big time and who has overseen putting a smile back on the faces of (most) Saints fans. What the f**k is the problem with some of you ? Do you want the club to fail again ? I love the contribution to our history that LM and MLT have made, but it is history. If the club fails, all we will have is memories and old paper-cuttings to remember. I find it utterly TRAGIC that some sort of open warfare is raging between old club legends and the current management, and subsequently between factions of fans, but if I am force to choose a side (which I dont want to), it MUST be the current management - they are taking the club forwards, and without them there would be no club. Why dont you all stop obsessing about the feud, let the individuals involved carry it on amongst themselves, and celebrate being top of the NPC in a promotion position for the PL ??? Avoiding the obvious irony of a rallying call from alpine_saint against pointless negativity, I do think you've framed the question perfectly alpine_saint. It feels like with NC we have a choice between the future OR the past. I'd like to have both. Unlike you, I can completely understand how some can question NC. I think it is very healthy. And let's get things in perspective here. We're talking about a few negative posts on a pretty quiet Saints' Internet forum. And of the small number of negative posts I've seen, a smaller number still have called for NC's head. Most I've read say that they are broadly in support of NC but have doubts. Instead of asking how people have the temerity to question NC when we're top of the NPC, ask yourself how fans are still questioning NC EVEN THOUGH we're top of the NPC and the future has never looked so rosy. That to me is subtle but important distinction. Either everyone who has an issue with NC is a negative, doom-monger (again I'm trying to avoid the irony here), or NC has done things that make normally level-headed, devoted supporters question the man who has brought incredible success to our club. Personally, I'm a massive fan of what NC has achieved but I'm not completely enamoured with the way he's done it. I'd like to say he has my 100% support, and whilst it's close that that figure, something in the back of my mind urges caution. I can't explain it but it is there. I'm glad he's here. I'm truly grateful that he/the Liebherr's saved the club. I accept that his aggressive style gets results and I think he's the type of chairman that could get us to the Prem, stay there and thrive. But, I also think the image that the club promotes is important and I really don't like sections of the establishment and press criticising our 125+ year old club. I think the second you are prepared to give up your past and all that it stands for, you run the risk of losing your identity and that is impossible to get back. We sell our past for a better future at our peril. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 It is only a couple of people who are having a pop at Cortese. Sadly they are the ones who seem to be able to post all day everyday so are the most active/vocal posters which makes it look like there are more then there are. Most sane people i think realise that the beef between Cortese and MLT is actually nothing to do with the fans. They won't pick sides. In answer to the question though you should always respect your past. Our most recent past has been pretty terrible. At one point were we not the lowest south side in the league? Who would of thought that 10 years ago? Going through that makes me appreciate what is happening now even more. There are so many good times from the past but sadly that is what they are, the past. You can't live there. It can't be changed (unless you know Doc Brown). The future is un-certain, events that will happen have yet to happen. People say we will never see the likes of a xyz player again. But then one pops up. Our history is full of great players. Who knows if Cortese does stick to his plan and we do reach the Champions League (dreaming for now) then what is to say someone like Lallana can't become our new hero? We could be at the start of a Saints golden era where we not only get to the top flight but are there to compete not just to survive relegation battles. If we all stick together, keep the positive outlook and keep the team spirit then who knows where we can end up. Going the other way and giving in to negativity and anger only leads to one path, self destruction. And i think most of us have had enough of that thank you. Hoo-Bloody-Ray!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 27 September, 2011 Avoiding the obvious irony of a rallying call from alpine_saint against pointless negativity, I do think you've framed the question perfectly alpine_saint. It feels like with NC we have a choice between the future OR the past. I'd like to have both. Unlike you, I can completely understand how some can question NC. I think it is very healthy. And let's get things in perspective here. We're talking about a few negative posts on a pretty quiet Saints' Internet forum. And of the small number of negative posts I've seen, a smaller number still have called for NC's head. Most I've read say that they are broadly in support of NC but have doubts. Instead of asking how people have the temerity to question NC when we're top of the NPC, ask yourself how fans are still questioning NC EVEN THOUGH we're top of the NPC and the future has never looked so rosy. That to me is subtle but important distinction. Either everyone who has an issue with NC is a negative, doom-monger (again I'm trying to avoid the irony here), or NC has done things that make normally level-headed, devoted supporters question the man who has brought incredible success to our club. Personally, I'm a massive fan of what NC has achieved but I'm not completely enamoured with the way he's done it. I'd like to say he has my 100% support, and whilst it's close that that figure, something in the back of my mind urges caution. I can't explain it but it is there. I'm glad he's here. I'm truly grateful that he/the Liebherr's saved the club. I accept that his aggressive style gets results and I think he's the type of chairman that could get us to the Prem, stay there and thrive. But, I also think the image that the club promotes is important and I really don't like sections of the establishment and press criticising our 125+ year old club. I think the second you are prepared to give up your past and all that it stands for, you run the risk of losing your identity and that is impossible to get back. We sell our past for a better future at our peril. I think you have a bit of trouble reading, my friend. Who said we have a choice between past and future ? I also want both. I asked what is more important, and for me there is no debate whatsoever about the answer, unless you are one of those trying to use the friction between MLT and NC as an additional excuse to have a pop at NC. Oh, and I dont think my "negativity" in the past has been pointless; I think my lack of "negativity" now demonstrates that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I liken it to having two good friends who are having a petty argument. I'm not going to take sides (nor should anyone IMO - what does it achieve, except more division?), I just want them to sort it out or move on. A sensible attitude Minty, but I'd go even further. I haven't even seen the 2 friends arguing for myself. It's a third party telling me that 2 good friends are having an argument, what is more a third party that has a reputation for exaggerating facts to make a story out of very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 The very fact that we were an attractive proposition was partially due to the input of those two... Those two and thousands of others, absolutely no doubt. The fact we were an attractive proposition has much more to do with Rupert Lowe and the complete shambles of corporate management that followed. The fact we were an attractive proposition has more to do with us going into administration. The fact we were an attractive proposition has more to do with the size of the fan base. The fact we were an attractive proposition has more to do with our stadium and training facilities. The fact we were an attractive proposition has more to do with Sky money and the sponsorship available in the top echelon. Hard ****ing numbers, not sentimentality. Totally agree that LMc and MLT are heroes but lets not suggest they made the club the "attractive proposition", they played an active role in our history and were rewarded for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolsaint29 Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 The difference is, without the past there is no future... Without the likes of Le Tissier and McMenemy would we have the club that Cortese now runs? I think not... Let's play devils advocate, the same could be said about the delightful Rupert Lowe and he is certain no hero in anybodys eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 Should be eminently possible (and perhaps even a requirement) to see both your past and your future as being important. One gives you memories of what the Club has been, whilst the other gives you dreams of what it might be. And I see that as being totally separate to an ongoing feud between 3 or 4 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 The past gives you identity and foundation. The present sustains that past and is your reason to remain in existance. The future allows you to build on and aim to surpass what you are. The past should be respected but must not be your main focus. We must be building always to be as strong as we can possibly be right now with the view to a strong future, as such there is no absolute right or wrong in this argument.... but there is the risk of one side of the balance becoming too overbearing. My personal view has always been that we must be building to the future and be making all efforts to ensure that we are as strong as possible right now in order to allow it. This argument between Cortese and Le Tissier/McMenemy/Benali etc is a threat to our stability as it seems to be a war between the past wanting recognition/concession and the present needing to be resolute to avoid any potential ongoing abuse from parties which may not be as 'benign' in their motives as Le Tissier (for example). It needs to be sorted out, neither side must be 'removed' as they are all part of 'us.' Personally, I will always be more inclined to favour the building work towards the future at the expense of the glorification of the past. The prospect of us being back in the premiership or future cup runs, these possibilities fascinate me... and knowing we can be as strong as possible for these future campaigns excites me more then the nontheless still wonderful memories and glories we have from the past. It is only a sense of cautiousness from seeing how similar clubs have been consumed by these dreams (the Skates are the most ready example) that leads me to want the club to remain a little bound and grounded by past association. All sides to the argument have merit though, just personality and instinct provide the differential in the fanbase, it's a bloody nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paris Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 A lot of people on here are lost without a bit of drama simple... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I think the future is more inportant, that's why if the chairman is being a c*ck, he should be told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 Avoiding the obvious irony of a rallying call from alpine_saint against pointless negativity, I do think you've framed the question perfectly alpine_saint. It feels like with NC we have a choice between the future OR the past. I'd like to have both. Unlike you, I can completely understand how some can question NC. I think it is very healthy. And let's get things in perspective here. We're talking about a few negative posts on a pretty quiet Saints' Internet forum. And of the small number of negative posts I've seen, a smaller number still have called for NC's head. Most I've read say that they are broadly in support of NC but have doubts. Instead of asking how people have the temerity to question NC when we're top of the NPC, ask yourself how fans are still questioning NC EVEN THOUGH we're top of the NPC and the future has never looked so rosy. That to me is subtle but important distinction. Either everyone who has an issue with NC is a negative, doom-monger (again I'm trying to avoid the irony here), or NC has done things that make normally level-headed, devoted supporters question the man who has brought incredible success to our club. Personally, I'm a massive fan of what NC has achieved but I'm not completely enamoured with the way he's done it. I'd like to say he has my 100% support, and whilst it's close that that figure, something in the back of my mind urges caution. I can't explain it but it is there. I'm glad he's here. I'm truly grateful that he/the Liebherr's saved the club. I accept that his aggressive style gets results and I think he's the type of chairman that could get us to the Prem, stay there and thrive. But, I also think the image that the club promotes is important and I really don't like sections of the establishment and press criticising our 125+ year old club. I think the second you are prepared to give up your past and all that it stands for, you run the risk of losing your identity and that is impossible to get back. We sell our past for a better future at our peril. Very well said; the need to pigeon-hole people into a pro or anti Cortese stance is as childish as it is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I think you have a bit of trouble reading, my friend. Who said we have a choice between past and future ? I also want both. I asked what is more important, and for me there is no debate whatsoever about the answer, unless you are one of those trying to use the friction between MLT and NC as an additional excuse to have a pop at NC. Oh, and I dont think my "negativity" in the past has been pointless; I think my lack of "negativity" now demonstrates that. He actually said: "It feels like with NC we have a choice between the future OR the past. I'd like to have both." I think the latest round of sniping began with Cortese criticising MLT & ML for wanting freebees. He could just have declined to comment when the question was asked. Instead he clearly to want to bring up the issue again. That does smack rather of trying to get fans on his side against the "past". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 I think you have a bit of trouble reading, my friend. Who said we have a choice between past and future ? I also want both. I asked what is more important, and for me there is no debate whatsoever about the answer, unless you are one of those trying to use the friction between MLT and NC as an additional excuse to have a pop at NC. Oh, and I dont think my "negativity" in the past has been pointless; I think my lack of "negativity" now demonstrates that. Then I think our inability to read must be mutual. It was me that said that it feels like with NC we have choice between the future OR the past. I also said that I thought the question you asked was framed perfectly for the debate. You were the first poster I had seen in this current NC debate to get to the heart of the matter. A weighing of the importance of our past against our future. Take that as a compliment. Try not to be so defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 Well said Alpine. As you point out, against a background of almost unparalled success on the pitch, the club well run and financially secure, you have to wonder at those who seem to be driven by personal agendas in an attempt to rock the boat. But if the situation were to be analysed and the dissenting voices counted on the other threads, it would become clear that they are in a small minority, but very vocal, giving the mistaken impression that there are more of them. Looking at the original thread recently, the one where NC had his interview with the Sun, the initial response was overwhelmingly in favour of NC and the way that he ran the club. And then when Stelling jumped in with both feet with his unprofessional intervention, there was the opportunity for the disgruntled minority to vent their spite and bile. And so it snowballed with a story in the Saints fans' forum equivalent of the News of the World, something based largely on hearsay and written by somebody with an obvious agenda against the current regime here and relayed onto this forum by another individual whose past record has been one of petty denigration of NC. But how many of these vindictive individuals are there posting on here? You can probably count them on the fingers of both hands. They are nobodies and although they bleat continously at every opportunity, most ignore their opinions, because they have heard them many, many times before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 27 September, 2011 Then I think our inability to read must be mutual. It was me that said that it feels like with NC we have choice between the future OR the past. I also said that I thought the question you asked was framed perfectly for the debate. You were the first poster I had seen in this current NC debate to get to the heart of the matter. A weighing of the importance of our past against our future. Take that as a compliment. Try not to be so defensive. Defensive ? Maybe if you had just given your opinion without the interspersed digs at me, my reaction to it might have been less so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 27 September, 2011 Share Posted 27 September, 2011 Defensive ? Maybe if you had just given your opinion without the interspersed digs at me, my reaction to it might have been less so.... Fair point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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