Fitzhugh Fella Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 (edited) was in 1896-97. We started with nine striaght victories, then a draw followed by 2 more wins. In the remaining 8 games we drew 4 and won 4 to end the season winning the Southern League (then the Football league's equal) undefeated. P20 W15 D5 L0 F63 A18 In the FA Cup we took Man United (Newton Heath) to a replay. All home games were played at the old Hampshire County Cricket Ground and our star players inc Clawley the goalkeeper, Joe Turner on the wing and Jack Farrell our main goalgetter (20 goals in 27 games inc Cup). Over to you then Nigel - a city expects and all that. Edited 21 September, 2011 by Fitzhugh Fella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La BoIS Saint Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 We've already lost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 I remember Clawley, I will never forget that double save he did against Wayne Clooney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketphilly Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 Did we ever play Barnstoneworth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 We've already lost? ^ This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 FF, how can we equal our best ever start when we've lost one already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 A 20 game season? How times have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 was in 1896-97. We started with nine striaght victories, then a draw followed by 2 more wins. In the remaining 8 games we drew 4 and won 4 to end the season winning the Southern League (then the Football league's equal) undefeated. P20 W15 D5 L0 F63 A18 In the FA Cup we took Man United (Newton Heath) to a replay. All home games were played at the old Hampshire County Cricket Ground and our star players inc Clawley the goalkeeper, Joe Turner on the wing and Jack Farrell our main goalgetter (20 goals in 27 games inc Cup). Over to you then Nigel - a nation expects, another 2 wins and we equal the start You must have seen all the matches to have remembered that season so well..... Where were you standing, I was up at the Milton end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintsdan Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 Duncan, As we are on the subject of our time in the Southern League. Do you know why we were not elected to the Football League after our successes around the turn of the century (winning the southern league 6 times in 8 years and reaching 2 cup finals) given that Spurs and Fulham were both elected from the Southern League around that time? I would have thought that we would have been recognised as one of the best teams in the country at the time and therefore deserving of a place in the football league. Similarly, as the Southern League and the Football League were both professional, and as you have said were considered equal, do you know why our successes are not recognised as 'honours' in the same way that the likes of Sunderland and Sheffield United are recognised as having been league champions at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsarum Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 You must have seen all the matches to have remembered that season so well..... Where were you standing, I was up at the Milton end? No it would have been the top rank / speedway end or whatever that was called in those days, City End ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 21 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 21 September, 2011 FF, how can we equal our best ever start when we've lost one already? Glad to see you are all awake!! This was also the first season we wore stripes (although in those days the shorts were navy.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 21 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 21 September, 2011 You must have seen all the matches to have remembered that season so well..... Where were you standing, I was up at the Milton end? As the Dell was not yet built you must have got pretty wet stood in that stream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 21 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 21 September, 2011 Duncan, As we are on the subject of our time in the Southern League. Do you know why we were not elected to the Football League after our successes around the turn of the century (winning the southern league 6 times in 8 years and reaching 2 cup finals) given that Spurs and Fulham were both elected from the Southern League around that time? I would have thought that we would have been recognised as one of the best teams in the country at the time and therefore deserving of a place in the football league. Similarly, as the Southern League and the Football League were both professional, and as you have said were considered equal, do you know why our successes are not recognised as 'honours' in the same way that the likes of Sunderland and Sheffield United are recognised as having been league champions at that time. There are some good questions in there - a lot was to do with the politics around - the North were furious that the South deemed to be their equals and equally furious that with no wage cap in the South a lot of the best players chose the Southern League. I think Spurs were eventually let in but Saints had upset too many big Northern clubs by nicking all their players. Around 1907 the Southern League began to lose ground when a wage cap was introduced and by the time Saints and the others were invited to join in 1920 they were no longer a force in the land. Saints won the SL 6 times in 10 years around the turn of the century and like you say throw in 2 FA Cup Final appearances and you have one of the best teams in the country at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 Glad to see you are all awake!! This was also the first season we wore stripes (although in those days the shorts were navy.) I remember all the moaning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 I remember all the moaning... Indeed A question to all yea so called traditionalists. was it not' date=' I aske you all, right that the team born from the mighty St Mary's church YMA also be beclothed in the lined shirts to match? Hark, the naysayers will scoff at such changes, but mark my words! Who will in 114 years time ever recall the valiant Saints playing in a sash? No one, is the answer that will come to your mouths![/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 This success pre-dates Portsmouth FC. Was this when our rivals were Freemantle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintmatt Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 Duncan, As we are on the subject of our time in the Southern League. Do you know why we were not elected to the Football League after our successes around the turn of the century (winning the southern league 6 times in 8 years and reaching 2 cup finals) given that Spurs and Fulham were both elected from the Southern League around that time? I would have thought that we would have been recognised as one of the best teams in the country at the time and therefore deserving of a place in the football league. Similarly, as the Southern League and the Football League were both professional, and as you have said were considered equal, do you know why our successes are not recognised as 'honours' in the same way that the likes of Sunderland and Sheffield United are recognised as having been league champions at that time. I've often thought this. And given that the lack of wage cap in the Southern League allowed us to poach the best players from the (wage-capped) Northern League, there's comfortable justification that we were the best team in the country at the time. Campaign to get these league titles recognised anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 21 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 21 September, 2011 This success pre-dates Portsmouth FC. Was this when our rivals were Freemantle? Yes big rivals and they had their own ground too - which is still there. We proposed a merger around this time but their debts were too large by that stage and so George Thomas a local fishmonger dug deep (with an idea of a profit) and got the Dell built in 1898. You know the rest. We were in debt ourselves from thereon in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 Duncan, As we are on the subject of our time in the Southern League. Do you know why we were not elected to the Football League after our successes around the turn of the century (winning the southern league 6 times in 8 years and reaching 2 cup finals) given that Spurs and Fulham were both elected from the Southern League around that time? I would have thought that we would have been recognised as one of the best teams in the country at the time and therefore deserving of a place in the football league. Similarly, as the Southern League and the Football League were both professional, and as you have said were considered equal, do you know why our successes are not recognised as 'honours' in the same way that the likes of Sunderland and Sheffield United are recognised as having been league champions at that time. I would think the problem of playing in the Football League before 1900 was the location of the clubs, not only Saints having to travel away, but clubs from the north and midlands having to get to Southampton. There was no practical road travel in those days so it would have been by rail. Not sure the SL was entirely seen as equal to the FL because according to Dave Juson and David Bull's book 'Full-Time at The Dell', when Saints beat Leicester in the FA Cup in Jan 1898 they were the first SL team to eliminate an FL team from the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 Were we know as "Les Invisibles?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stud mark of doom Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 Not sure the SL was entirely seen as equal to the FL because according to Dave Juson and David Bull's book 'Full-Time at The Dell', when Saints beat Leicester in the FA Cup in Jan 1898 they were the first SL team to eliminate an FL team from the cup. And Football League sides won the Cup every year except for 1901, from memory, although we woz robbed in 1902. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the colonel Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 was in 1896-97. We started with nine striaght victories, then a draw followed by 2 more wins. In the remaining 8 games we drew 4 and won 4 to end the season winning the Southern League (then the Football league's equal) undefeated. P20 W15 D5 L0 F63 A18 In the FA Cup we took Man United (Newton Heath) to a replay. All home games were played at the old Hampshire County Cricket Ground and our star players inc Clawley the goalkeeper, Joe Turner on the wing and Jack Farrell our main goalgetter (20 goals in 27 games inc Cup). Over to you then Nigel - a city expects and all that. My favourite season as a Saints fan...my memory is fading a bit but was great to be there for those opening 9 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 21 September, 2011 Share Posted 21 September, 2011 Now this is a good thread - thanks Duncan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintsdan Posted 22 September, 2011 Share Posted 22 September, 2011 There are some good questions in there - a lot was to do with the politics around - the North were furious that the South deemed to be their equals and equally furious that with no wage cap in the South a lot of the best players chose the Southern League. I think Spurs were eventually let in but Saints had upset too many big Northern clubs by nicking all their players. Around 1907 the Southern League began to lose ground when a wage cap was introduced and by the time Saints and the others were invited to join in 1920 they were no longer a force in the land. Saints won the SL 6 times in 10 years around the turn of the century and like you say throw in 2 FA Cup Final appearances and you have one of the best teams in the country at that time. Thanks Duncan, Less factual question this time. How different do you think our history would have been had we been elected to the football league (presumably division 2) with the team we had at that time? By the time we entered the football league (division 3) 15 years later we presumably had a much weaker side and it eventually took 62 years from our last southern league title win to reach the top flight . Do you think we would have reached the top flight earlier and possibly won more silverware if we had been elected in 1904/5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guided Missile Posted 22 September, 2011 Share Posted 22 September, 2011 This is fascinating... In March 1893, Freemantle reached the final of the Hampshire Senior Cup, where they again met their arch-rivals, Southampton St. Mary's. The Saints had won the cup in each of the two previous seasons and were favourites to retain the trophy. The match, played at the County Ground on 11 March, generated great excitement in the town and produced a crowd of over 6000 and gate receipts of £122. The Bournemouth Guardian reported: "the attendance completely upset all ideas as to the accommodation that would be required, and the magnificent spectacle of between 6,000 and 7,000 excited individuals massed together round the field of play ... was one that Hampshire and indeed none of the counties south of the Thames and this side of London has ever witnessed at an Association football match." Freemantle opened the scoring before the Saints equalised; with the score 1–1 and only a few minutes left to play, a Freemantle forward, Horton, was about to score past Ralph Ruffell in the Saints' goal when he was tripped by William Stride. Although the Saints protested that the foul was outside the penalty area, the referee awarded a penalty to Freemantle, which was converted by Shirley Hawkins, giving Freemantle their first trophy.[7] After the match, the Freemantle supporters "went on a revel"; local legend has it that the Cup was found next early the morning "sitting unattended in the middle of the road outside a local hostelry – presumably the Waterloo Arms".[7] At the club’s end of season dinner the Magpies' captain, George Ridges, told the gathering that he "did not see why they should not call their club Southampton Football Club".[4] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 22 September, 2011 Share Posted 22 September, 2011 This is fascinating... In March 1893, Freemantle reached the final of the Hampshire Senior Cup, where they again met their arch-rivals, Southampton St. Mary's. The Saints had won the cup in each of the two previous seasons and were favourites to retain the trophy. The match, played at the County Ground on 11 March, generated great excitement in the town and produced a crowd of over 6000 and gate receipts of £122. The Bournemouth Guardian reported: "the attendance completely upset all ideas as to the accommodation that would be required, and the magnificent spectacle of between 6,000 and 7,000 excited individuals massed together round the field of play ... was one that Hampshire and indeed none of the counties south of the Thames and this side of London has ever witnessed at an Association football match." Freemantle opened the scoring before the Saints equalised; with the score 1–1 and only a few minutes left to play, a Freemantle forward, Horton, was about to score past Ralph Ruffell in the Saints' goal when he was tripped by William Stride. Although the Saints protested that the foul was outside the penalty area, the referee awarded a penalty to Freemantle, which was converted by Shirley Hawkins, giving Freemantle their first trophy.[7] After the match, the Freemantle supporters "went on a revel"; local legend has it that the Cup was found next early the morning "sitting unattended in the middle of the road outside a local hostelry – presumably the Waterloo Arms".[7] At the club’s end of season dinner the Magpies' captain, George Ridges, told the gathering that he "did not see why they should not call their club Southampton Football Club".[4] It would be interesting to understand how it came to be that Southampton St Mary's prevailed to become Southampton FC and why Freemantle faded into obscurity. A little odd that a bloke called Shirley played for Freemantle. Upon reflection, maybe a good thing they disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Strover Posted 22 September, 2011 Share Posted 22 September, 2011 My understanding was the Southern League clubs forced the Football League's hand by applying 'en mass' to join the league thus forming Division Three in 1920 or whenever it was (I was 16 at the time and a butcher's boy so can't quite remember). The Football League then said 'Okay but only the champions go up' and we went up the second season. Despite being **** and letting too many goals in and not being ambitious with signing on big name players from Accrington Stanley.... Or something like that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 22 September, 2011 Share Posted 22 September, 2011 I remember all the moaning... was Hypo at it back then too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 22 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 22 September, 2011 You got to remember though we only got to be top dogs by throwing money at buying players and sooner or later when the money runs out - as it did after building the Dell we would have been found out. And the reason Freemantle were usurped was because they too ran up debts that were unsustainable despite having their own ground. Thanks Duncan, Less factual question this time. How different do you think our history would have been had we been elected to the football league (presumably division 2) with the team we had at that time? By the time we entered the football league (division 3) 15 years later we presumably had a much weaker side and it eventually took 62 years from our last southern league title win to reach the top flight . Do you think we would have reached the top flight earlier and possibly won more silverware if we had been elected in 1904/5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 22 September, 2011 Share Posted 22 September, 2011 Yes big rivals and they had their own ground too - which is still there. We proposed a merger around this time but their debts were too large by that stage and so George Thomas a local fishmonger dug deep (with an idea of a profit) and got the Dell built in 1898. You know the rest. We were in debt ourselves from thereon in. Blimey, does that make us Skates ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 22 September, 2011 Share Posted 22 September, 2011 Blimey, does that make us Skates ? Cod no! We've got more sole than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 22 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 22 September, 2011 Cod no! We've got more sole than that. But we "floundered" around after the wage cap of 1907 was introduced to the Southern League and all of a sudden our best players sought fresh "plaices" back in the Football League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 September, 2011 Share Posted 22 September, 2011 Pollocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 23 September, 2011 Share Posted 23 September, 2011 This story, is getting fishy now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 23 September, 2011 Share Posted 23 September, 2011 There are some good questions in there - a lot was to do with the politics around - the North were furious that the South deemed to be their equals and equally furious that with no wage cap in the South a lot of the best players chose the Southern League. I think Spurs were eventually let in but Saints had upset too many big Northern clubs by nicking all their players. Around 1907 the Southern League began to lose ground when a wage cap was introduced and by the time Saints and the others were invited to join in 1920 they were no longer a force in the land. Saints won the SL 6 times in 10 years around the turn of the century and like you say throw in 2 FA Cup Final appearances and you have one of the best teams in the country at that time. The FL invited the London clubs to really damage the SL and we were a victim of our geography. I guess its all about where the seat of power is and the FL league where determined that it remained in the North, however with the London teams in the SL and their access to a large metropolitan area was as threat to the FL, so by poaching them the FL consigned the SL to a definite decline. The FL and SL should have merged and each team given its equitable place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 23 September, 2011 Share Posted 23 September, 2011 Thanks Duncan, Less factual question this time. How different do you think our history would have been had we been elected to the football league (presumably division 2) with the team we had at that time? By the time we entered the football league (division 3) 15 years later we presumably had a much weaker side and it eventually took 62 years from our last southern league title win to reach the top flight . Do you think we would have reached the top flight earlier and possibly won more silverware if we had been elected in 1904/5? Its all about how quickly you got in to the top flight, with one up one down the top flight were protected. So once you were in there you were pretty safe. If we had been given our equitable position we would have got into the top flight sooner and become one of the big boys of English football, we would have been more successful, had bigger crowds meaning we could have handled the ground debt. We was robbed by northern power monkeys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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