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Andoverian

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I am a bit surprised that we're not nearing a sell out at the moment. I'm sure that will come as we get to the business end to the season. Hopefully, we'll also take a fair few to Burnley next week.

 

I'd be surprised if we got over 30,000 for any league game this season; the Pompey game and Palace Boxing Day game perhaps excluded.

 

For that to happen, you really need the away side to bring close to their full allocation of 3,000. You need it to be a bit of a draw for the home fans to get really excited about it, so a local derby or holiday time. But critically you need the corporate areas to be reasonable full, and as we've seen this season there are huge areas of empty seats for the boxes and the suites, which I think have a total combined capacity of around 2,500.

 

The Pompey game, well it could go one way or the other if its quite restrictive and some fans will just not want the hassle of it all. Still, I do expect them to bring a full allocation, and the suites could get busy again for it, so I'd expect north of 30K for that. Palace on Boxing Day has been a very well supported fixture in the past so I'd also expect to see a repeat of that. and I'd think we'll get 27k-28 for the visits of Brighton and Reading, assuming we're still in the mix of it all.

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I am a bit surprised that we're not nearing a sell out at the moment.

 

I was too, but now I come to think on it, how many other people have been of the same mind as many of us that the next game (whichever game it happens to be) will be the wake up call? These are very strange times for us at the moment.

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I'd be surprised if we got over 30,000 for any league game this season; the Pompey game and Palace Boxing Day game perhaps excluded.

 

For that to happen, you really need the away side to bring close to their full allocation of 3,000. You need it to be a bit of a draw for the home fans to get really excited about it, so a local derby or holiday time. But critically you need the corporate areas to be reasonable full, and as we've seen this season there are huge areas of empty seats for the boxes and the suites, which I think have a total combined capacity of around 2,500.

 

The Pompey game, well it could go one way or the other if its quite restrictive and some fans will just not want the hassle of it all. Still, I do expect them to bring a full allocation, and the suites could get busy again for it, so I'd expect north of 30K for that. Palace on Boxing Day has been a very well supported fixture in the past so I'd also expect to see a repeat of that. and I'd think we'll get 27k-28 for the visits of Brighton and Reading, assuming we're still in the mix of it all.

 

Think West Ham despite being midweek will be a good crowd, and as hospitallity should be fairly good for that game

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I think our attendances have been fantastic considering the circumstances and likewise with the away support.

 

The problem is that many were spoilt rotten with the full houses during the Premier League days when there wasn't a recession on. Our current average is something to be proud of, especially when you look at teams like Leeds who are a massive club with traditionally a fantastic support and without looking our average must be pretty similar, maybe even better.

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I think our attendances have been fantastic considering the circumstances and likewise with the away support.

 

The problem is that many were spoilt rotten with the full houses during the Premier League days when there wasn't a recession on. Our current average is something to be proud of, especially when you look at teams like Leeds who are a massive club with traditionally a fantastic support and without looking our average must be pretty similar, maybe even better.

 

Leeds average this season so far is 23,646, so lower than ours. Although last year over the course of the season is was 27,299. Still plenty of time for Saints to push ours towards those heights!

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I used to be a season ticket holder, I now have 2 kids and my wife has given up working full time to look after them, I have to pick and choose the games I can and can't go to due to the rising costs of fuel and match day tickets.

 

Attendances are down across the board, Chelsea had there lowest attendance ever at a Champions League game this season.

 

They have an excuse though - a lot of their fans now watch Man City instead.

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its all pretty simple.

We averaged around 30 k in the PL.#

ALL teams drop 25 % in the championship after relegation from the PL. our average of 23500 in the playoff season is thus about what you would expect.

 

Our attendances for some games will suffer because the club didn't sell STs hard.

There is a recession on, football iS an expensive way to spend an afternoon.(wouldn't be surprised if there are plenty of fans who are choosing 1 game per month ATM)

 

so 22500 on a rainy sunday afternoon with 800 away fans is really a fair enough turn out.

 

Comparison, wHU, who usually average a bit more than us, got 25000 for Cardiff for the first game of the season.

 

And as for this "missing fans thing ".....when the really big games come around , all the regulars want a ticket. So, for example, those people who go to half the games in a season all want a ticket....thus explaining the upsurge.

 

I bet there are at least 30K fans who attend SMS regularly...whether that is every game, half the games, or 4 games a season.

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Looks to me in this case like the perfect storm in 3 parts:

 

Weather looked grim

Sunday, so many had other commitments

Man U v Chelsea game on at 4.

 

Given these I don't think too much should be read into yesterdays attendance.

 

Until you combine it with the Forest game that is, 23K odd for that one, on a Saturday at 3 with a decent contingent of Forest fans to boot. You just have to admit that although our gates are 8-10 % up on last season we aren't getting as many as

could have been foreseen.In the Forest build up I read a lot of predictions of around 27K,ticket office "not many left" disinformation.I'm sure it's about money though and Saints aren't alone in this.

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You can make excuses for yesterday: Sunday crowds tend to be fewer, Brum didn't bring as many as some, only a week since the last game and midweek game coming up. Higher prices than than season can't help.

 

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

 

People are skint. Cheaper forms of entertainment out there. Lot's of women at my work catching pregnancies since recession hit a few years back.

 

22k is still a very good attendance in the Championship!

 

Plus not many Birmingham fans turned up which doesn't help.

 

In the Premier League this weekend it saw attendances like...

 

Fulham vs Man City 24,750

Blackburn Arsenal 22,637

Bolton vs Norwich 21,223

Swansea West Brom 20,341

Wolves vs QPR 24,189

 

22,155 for Saints vs Birmingham in the league below is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

Nor is...

 

24,784 vs Forest in the 2nd tier

23,333 vs Millwall in the 2nd tier

25,860 vs Leeds in the 2nd tier

 

was going to be on tv.

 

weather was sh1t.

 

Decent crowd to see a team who bring not many fans

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There can be no doubt about it we are experiencing the worst recession i have seen and i saw thousands lose their homes in the 80's. Football is a luxury whatever way you look at it. Add too that it was a Sunday and the weather was awful possibly effecting the walk up.

Overall i still thought the attendance was very good and i commend those that are forking out to support the team. There are many thousands i suspect who would love to go and show their support but some of the reasons above would have been good reason for not attending.

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I'd give anything to have been to the games this season - I tend to make 12 or so home games a year and the odd away. This season thus far, I have been working for every. single. game.

 

I still aim to see a few in the coming weeks, but finances do come into it. As well as the ticket (or tickets if I persuade my missus to come), there's the food and drink that a day out brings, and the half a tank of petrol to consider.

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Was it just me or did there seem to be more than c22.5k yesterday? I will put it down to either a few ciders pre-match or Birmingham bringing a lower number down.

 

Don't forget they include in totals all STs sold so they would have counted me as being there even 'though I couldn't attend this week. That happens regularly in our part of the Itchen with guys on work related duties and so on often missing games. Would account for a few hundred and empty seats are very obvious because of their red coloration.

 

But other people are right, times are really hard for folk; if you're trading down at Tesco's to the 'Value" line you're hardly be able to afford the luxury of flashing £25 on a ticket up at SMS.

 

This new age of financial realism is going to be nasty and last a long time for a lot of people so football WILL suffer for sure and about bloody time it did many will say. Time for all those guys who've made millions out of the game to put some back in and help the poor bloody fans by cutting prices.

 

It is time to remember that this is a community sport founded in the working class areas of our old cities. Loose sight of that and ignore those roots and fans and you'll be in trouble. 22000 in our situation signals big trouble brewing so action is needed now.

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Almost 10,000 empty seats yesterday. For a team doing so well is there not an underlying problem that many fans this season are staying away because of the many charges,taxes, or whatever you want to call it levied by the club. What will happen if the results dive.

 

Odd for you to spend your time on a football forum, when you no longer support Southampton.

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Trouble is for us exiles, the petrol + food+ booze + ticket (s) comes to getting on for £150-£200, more if the misses and daughter come. I have to pick and choose games due to the cost much more now. There are probably quite a number in a similar position.

 

I think that the golden age of the Premier league and the filter-down effect it had on the Championship has now passed, it is cyclical and in recession like the rest of the economy. You can also sense that the transfer market is tanking, save for the very top world class elite players who command Man C/Chelski/Moan U/Barca fees.

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Perhaps a slight effect, but not hugely. There are two decent benchmarks to judge our attendances by; last year's average attendance, and the average attendances the last times we were in the Championship. This season's average attendance (to date) is significantly higher than anything comparable previously.
Our crowds haven't increased much despite a wonderful promotion under our belt and a great start to the season. We had neither of those the last time we were here so you are not comparing like for like for me. I know brum only brought 900 down, but I'd of expected a 25k crowd at least if ticket prices had not increased so much. Total income would have been lower though so the company have got the right prices from their point of view, shame though as it means empty seats.
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Leeds average this season so far is 23,646, so lower than ours. Although last year over the course of the season is was 27,299. Still plenty of time for Saints to push ours towards those heights!

 

you do know how much Bates charges fans and how little he has spent on players?

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Our crowds haven't increased much despite a wonderful promotion under our belt and a great start to the season. We had neither of those the last time we were here so you are not comparing like for like for me. I know brum only brought 900 down, but I'd of expected a 25k crowd at least if ticket prices had not increased so much. Total income would have been lower though so the company have got the right prices from their point of view, shame though as it means empty seats.

 

If you don't think a 2,000 bump on crowds from last year (almost 10%) is much of an increase; or for that matter than an average over 24,000 is a very good level of support, then it's not worth having the conversation. I think that's a very decent average attendance, if we could push anywhere approaching a 25K average over the season I would say that was excellent.

 

Your comment about the ticket prices being too high; I disagree with that one, I don't think the cost of the match tickets are too far out, and I think as the season goes on and if we're not seen as a flash in the pan by fans (and not about ti implode any minute) our attendances could steadily rise.

 

You say that you can't compare last time we were in the Champ to this time round because we're doing better this time, and because of a promotion? Fair comment, though I don't agree, and in any case I can't think offhand of a better comparison which I why I provided it. If you can come up with something better, fine.

 

All in, i think our attendances are good. I think our biggest disappointment has been the amount of empty seats in the hospitality areas; the prices there are IMO far too high and just don't offer value for money which, in this financial climate, is all important. Without the suites and corporate boxes being anywhere near full we're very much going to struggle to push on much further than 25K or 26K crowds. I've noticed an increased effort by the club lately to promote the hospitality suites further, but I still maintain that the prices are at a prohibitive level no matter the level of marketing.

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Perhaps a slight effect, but not hugely. There are two decent benchmarks to judge our attendances by; last year's average attendance, and the average attendances the last times we were in the Championship. This season's average attendance (to date) is significantly higher than anything comparable previously.
Our crowds haven't increased much despite a wonderful promotion under our belt and a great start to the season. We had neither of those the last time we were here so you are not comparing like for like for me.

 

I know brum only brought 900 down, but I'd of expected a 25k crowd at least if ticket prices had not increased so much. Total income would have been lower though so the company have got the right prices from their point of view, shame though as it means empty seats.

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I would love to go to every game, but with the 3rd child on the way, even my away games are suffering. I need to put money to one side, but will still try and do around 10 games this season. It does make me laugh that more turn up for the Premier league, when really I think this is the best it will get for attacking quality football from Saints.

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The weather killed the walkup, the match moving twice and many people not having bought tickets in the first place as it was expected to be on tv, and the floating plastics being able to watch Spurs v Liverpool and Man U v Chelsea have to be the determining factors.

 

It's a crap attendance for a high-flying Saints team nevertheless, we don't really have a comparable League position, but we're getting fewer than the first season after Prem relegation and the Play-Off season which are reasonably similar.

 

As for STs, they must count them all, because they chuck the stubs straight in the bin at the turnstiles!

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The weather killed the walkup, the match moving twice and many people not having bought tickets in the first place as it was expected to be on tv, and the floating plastics being able to watch Spurs v Liverpool and Man U v Chelsea have to be the determining factors.

 

It's a crap attendance for a high-flying Saints team nevertheless, we don't really have a comparable League position, but we're getting fewer than the first season after Prem relegation and the Play-Off season which are reasonably similar.

As for STs, they must count them all, because they chuck the stubs straight in the bin at the turnstiles!

 

How do you work that out?

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If you don't think a 2,000 bump on crowds from last year (almost 10%) is much of an increase; or for that matter than an average over 24,000 is a very good level of support, then it's not worth having the conversation. I think that's a very decent average attendance, if we could push anywhere approaching a 25K average over the season I would say that was excellent.

 

Your comment about the ticket prices being too high; I disagree with that one, I don't think the cost of the match tickets are too far out, and I think as the season goes on and if we're not seen as a flash in the pan by fans (and not about ti implode any minute) our attendances could steadily rise.

 

You say that you can't compare last time we were in the Champ to this time round because we're doing better this time, and because of a promotion? Fair comment, though I don't agree, and in any case I can't think offhand of a better comparison which I why I provided it. If you can come up with something better, fine.

 

All in, i think our attendances are good. I think our biggest disappointment has been the amount of empty seats in the hospitality areas; the prices there are IMO far too high and just don't offer value for money which, in this financial climate, is all important. Without the suites and corporate boxes being anywhere near full we're very much going to struggle to push on much further than 25K or 26K crowds. I've noticed an increased effort by the club lately to promote the hospitality suites further, but I still maintain that the prices are at a prohibitive level no matter the level of marketing.

 

I never said prices were too high, I also never said the attendances weren't good. All I insinuated was that if the ticket price rise wasn't so big then perhaps we'd have a bigger increase in attendances.

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I play football myself, while im young like most young saints fans who play mens football i would rather play untill im 34/35, then become a regular down @sms with my nipper when hes older and would appreciate it.

 

I pick and choose my games like most people, i think were see are attendance's rise slowly at xmas when sunday/sat football is effected by weather and people have time off work for xmas shopping etc and can go down to sms.

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you don't think the 40% (73% in the case of the 60-65 brigade) rise in prices has had any affect at all on attendances?

 

We got promoted so the relative rise would be less than these absolute figures. As a fan base we are not used to promotions and the associated increase in ticket prices, that incidentally happens at every club.

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We got promoted so the relative rise would be less than these absolute figures. As a fan base we are not used to promotions and the associated increase in ticket prices, that incidentally happens at every club.

 

they didn't at Norwich because they went on sale December 1st the previous year.

Edited by Chez
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It was Super Sunday on Sky! Many people who may have gone to the game probably stayed at home to watch that. If you pay £60-odd a month to have Sky Sports you may not be willing to shell out an extra £28 to see another game even if it is the team you support.

very interesting point. I wonder how many supporters that don't go every week and say its down to money spend £500 a year on Sky?

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My mate is an Arsenal fan and he put his name down for a season ticket years ago and every year he got a letter telling him where he is in the list. Last season he was down to 13000 in the list, this season he got a letter saying he is now eligible for a ST. So that means that a combination of 13000 people have either given up their ST or declined the offer of a ST that they have been waiting for for years. He didn't take up the offer either, he like a lot of us has got the disposable.

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I think the club messed up selling STs at the end of the season.We had a feel good factor and i think if they had started promoting STs then,maybe we would have had sold more.

But what we got was nothing from the club,until the season was nearly apon us.Then we were told about the higher prices and people losing concessions.Then when people did renew,the ticket office started sending out wrong tickets.

Im not having a go at the club,i just think the whole ST thing could have been handled better.We are very lucky to have a Saints team that are a pleasure to watch and are winning most of their games.But this is not enough to entise fans alone.Prices need to be right too.

In these hard times,surely the club could start treating us fans with a bit of respect,or maybe encouragement.Who knows,perhaps it might encourage more fans to make the effort to come to SMS?

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But other people are right, times are really hard for folk; if you're trading down at Tesco's to the 'Value" line you're hardly be able to afford the luxury of flashing £25 on a ticket up at SMS

 

If you were a walk-up buying on-the-day on Sunday I believe it would have cost you £29 to sit at the ends/wings.

 

 

You seem to be a bit more pro-Saints these days Charlie...it's not because you 8-2 be a gooner (I know it's an old one but...) right now is it?

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Top end of the scale,friends of mine whose family have supported saints for over 75 years,player sponsors and corporate table have been treated like s**t ,ridiculous prices introduced and so much lost revenue to the club in .their case over £24,000 and 10 seats free in Itchen. I am afraid the P.R. at the club needs looking at apart from other silly little niggles that produce bad feeling and very little revenue.

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Sorry but the money factor is only a reason for a small %, same as the weather. If that was a premiership game we would have sold 30,000+ at 35 quid a ticket.

 

I don't understand the mentality of this lost 10k. Who are these people who won't come down to watch us when we are flying (and have been for almost a year), but will just as soon as we have the Premier League sticker on our shirt? Strange fans. I, too, am surprised we aren't getting 27-28k gates at this stage, its a fantastic time to support the club.

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I don't understand the mentality of this lost 10k. Who are these people who won't come down to watch us when we are flying (and have been for almost a year), but will just as soon as we have the Premier League sticker on our shirt? Strange fans. I, too, am surprised we aren't getting 27-28k gates at this stage, its a fantastic time to support the club.

 

You don't understand the notion that less successful teams (i.e. those further down in the footballing pyramid) will typically attract lower crowds than those further up in the pyramid (or also lower crowds than they themselves used to attract when occupying those higher leagues)?

 

It's not exactly a new phenomenon so I'm not too sure where your confusion stems from.

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Its a combination of many things. I try to organise my life around the Saints games but when games are moved things often clash. Id pre arranged to go out on a fishing charrter and planned to go on the Sunday as the match was Saturday. Passed my season ticket on to a mate to use instead, but these things must happen to many others when matches get changed around.

As for those staying at home to watch football on sky! I gave up on sky years ago, there was no way i was paying God knows how much each month to watch teams i really dont care about or detest. Its cheaper to have my season ticket and watch a match i do care about! Its about priorities, ST or Sky for me was a no brainer! Makes me wonder how many on here that cant afford to go to games pay for a full sky subscription.

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