Empty seats

[Andoverian]

Almost 10,000 empty seats yesterday. For a team doing so well is there not an underlying problem that many fans this season are staying away because of the many charges,taxes, or whatever you want to call it levied by the club. What will happen if the results dive.

[tttdcs]

Almost 10,000 empty seats yesterday. For a team doing so well is there not an underlying problem that many fans this season are staying away because of the many charges,taxes, or whatever you want to call it levied by the club. What will happen if the results dive.

 

Yes people are skint

[La BoIS Saint]

You can make excuses for yesterday: Sunday crowds tend to be fewer, Brum didn't bring as many as some, only a week since the last game and midweek game coming up. Higher prices than than season can't help.

[Junior Mullet]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

 

People are skint. Cheaper forms of entertainment out there. Lot's of women at my work catching pregnancies since recession hit a few years back.

[Matthew Le God]

22k is still a very good attendance in the Championship!

 

Plus not many Birmingham fans turned up which doesn't help.

 

In the Premier League this weekend it saw attendances like...

 

Fulham vs Man City 24,750

Blackburn Arsenal 22,637

Bolton vs Norwich 21,223

Swansea West Brom 20,341

Wolves vs QPR 24,189

 

22,155 for Saints vs Birmingham in the league below is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

Nor is...

 

24,784 vs Forest in the 2nd tier

23,333 vs Millwall in the 2nd tier

25,860 vs Leeds in the 2nd tier

Edited 19 September, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[ant]

Well firstly please provide proof that that's why attendances aren't great. Aren't crowd numbers suffering all over the country of late (other than the 'glory' teams of course)?

[Spudders]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

 

People are skint. Cheaper forms of entertainment out there. Lot's of women at my work catching pregnancies since recession hit a few years back.

 

:lol: Ironically not a long term cheap option then!

[Matthew Le God]

Yes people are skint

 

That is nonsense really, had Saints been playing a Premier League game yesterday the price would have been higher and you would have circa 30k there.

[Vershinin]

Was it just me or did there seem to be more than c22.5k yesterday? I will put it down to either a few ciders pre-match or Birmingham bringing a lower number down.

[JRM]

Modern Football is not value for money for an increasing number of people in my opinion, finding it harder to justify the cost, especially for those of us who have to travel to get to game.

[Mowgli]

A lot of the empty seats were corporate and away fans. I seem to recall someone saying they would not cut price corporate seats as this can create a long term expectation of cut price deals. There is decent support from grass root fans.

[aintforever]

That is nonsense really, had Saints been playing a Premier League game yesterday the price would have been higher and you would have circa 30k there.

 

It's not nonsense, football is not cheap and nowadays it's a luxury many people cannot afford on a regular basis. Of course the glory hunters will be swarming back when we go up but that doesn't mean many fans who would usually go are not.

 

I think you will find attendances in the slums up north have been hit harder than down here.

[a1ex2001]

That is nonsense really, had Saints been playing a Premier League game yesterday the price would have been higher and you would have circa 30k there.

 

It's not nonsense, skint is relative. When trying to justify spending money it's difficult to justify spending it on a mediocre product like championship football but perfectly possible to justify spending it on a premium product like premier league football and the associated glory. Much like nobody can find a tenner for a pint on a monday but they can find 150 quid for a stag do on saturday.

 

That and the glory fans who only watch the big games!

[Saint_clark]

You can make excuses for yesterday: Sunday crowds tend to be fewer, Brum didn't bring as many as some, only a week since the last game and midweek game coming up. Higher prices than than season can't help.

 

As well as the fact that it wasn't really advertised that well that the game wasn't on Sky anymore.

[Weston Saint]

Almost 10,000 empty seats yesterday. For a team doing so well is there not an underlying problem that many fans this season are staying away because of the many charges,taxes, or whatever you want to call it levied by the club. What will happen if the results dive.

I think you are getting a chip on your shoulder because you fell into the over 60 under 65 change and decided not to renew. I know many many others who were similarly affected but did renew and are enjoying what is being served up.

 

As someone has already stated, it was a Sunday 3pm and that will have affected supporters decisions, particularly those who are not season ticket holders.

 

Incidently we are 3rd in the table of Championship attendances. Not bad for a club you think might be suffering from over pricing!

[The Kraken]

Our average attendance this season is still more than 24,000. We didn't get near that figure for seasonal average attendances the last times we were in this division in the past few years, so our attendance figures need to be taken in context.

 

We stll have the derby game to push our average up further; yesterday was the lowest home attendance of the season, which while disappointing was perhaps not surprising given that it was a late switch to a Sunday game, and Birmingham only brought 821 fans.

 

If we continue to average anywhere close to 24K or 25K over the whole season, i think that would be quite some achievement for this league, and well above anything we've seen before at this level.

[saintsdan]

I suspect the weather meant the walk up wasn't great yesterday either.

[bristolsaint29]

I used to be a season ticket holder, I now have 2 kids and my wife has given up working full time to look after them, I have to pick and choose the games I can and can't go to due to the rising costs of fuel and match day tickets.

 

Attendances are down across the board, Chelsea had there lowest attendance ever at a Champions League game this season.

[JRM]

Our pricing may not be deemed to be expensive compared to other clubs, but it is a symptom of football in general, Burnley away next week is £26, how much is the average wage in Burnley? Can’t be much for sure, madness them charging those prices.

Last season we did a couple of deals for Oldham and Dagenham at home where season ticket holders could buy extra seats for £7.50 and “bring a mate” would like to see that for a couple of games, like Peterborough at home on a Tuesday in November, maybe Watford at home just to boost the attendance, the team might be doing well on the pitch but I’m sure the players would like to have a full house and a good atmosphere as much as we would.

Other games like West Ham and Middlesbrough at home won’t need such an incentive, can see big crowds for both of those.

[SnailOB]

Was it just me or did there seem to be more than c22.5k yesterday? I will put it down to either a few ciders pre-match or Birmingham bringing a lower number down.

 

I think there was probably a few still hiding in subways / under trees / in shop fronts hiding from the rain

 

I certainly passed a few yesterday doing just that on way to ground

[Kingsland Red]

Apologies for absence.

I have two season tickets but run a team on a Sunday in the Hampshire County Youth League. Unfortunately we cannot cancel matches because Birmingham play European football on a Thursday.

I expect many others who play/run youth or senior football on a Sunday had a similar problem yesterday.

[saint1977]

I think you are getting a chip on your shoulder because you fell into the over 60 under 65 change and decided not to renew. I know many many others who were similarly affected but did renew and are enjoying what is being served up.

 

As someone has already stated, it was a Sunday 3pm and that will have affected supporters decisions, particularly those who are not season ticket holders.

 

Incidently we are 3rd in the table of Championship attendances. Not bad for a club you think might be suffering from over pricing!

 

Quite. As the Kraken rightly states below, we still have the likes of West Ham, Brighton, Skates still to come at home and would imagine those games would be upper 28-29k and sold out for Skates. I couldn't go yesterday as had already bought tickets for other games coming up in the next 4 weeks - economic reality means making choices. Petrol to SMS costs me at least £40 and often more for away games.

 

Andoverian - I understand your frustrations but if you have the chance to go and watch this team, please do as they are the best to pull on the shirt since 2002/3 and we should be proud of them.

[StDunko]

It was chucking it down!

 

I was surprised that the game went ahead after the amount of rain we drove through on the way to the ground. That clearly would have effected the number of "walk ups".

[The Kraken]

Andoverian - I understand your frustrations but if you have the chance to go and watch this team, please do as they are the best to pull on the shirt since 2002/3 and we should be proud of them.

 

This. It seems to me that Andoverian is desperately trying to find excuses to justify his indignation at refusing to meet the higher price of season ticket.

 

The fact is this team are playing some of the best football I've seen in years.

The fact is we're top of the league.

And the fact is that our average attendance compared to previous years in this division are significantly increased.

 

So I would absolutely refute the suggestion by Andoverian that actions by the club have put people off from coming; crowds are up and there's a feel good factor about the side that is pretty infectious. Missing out on that just to try and prove a point to yourself is a bit silly, really. As is whingeing about it all on an internet forum.

Edited 19 September, 2011 by The Kraken

[LostBoys]

22k is still a very good attendance in the Championship!

 

Plus not many Birmingham fans turned up which doesn't help.

 

In the Premier League this weekend it saw attendances like...

 

Fulham vs Man City 24,750

Blackburn Arsenal 22,637

Bolton vs Norwich 21,223

Swansea West Brom 20,341

Wolves vs QPR 24,189

 

22,155 for Saints vs Birmingham in the league below is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

Nor is...

 

24,784 vs Forest in the 2nd tier

23,333 vs Millwall in the 2nd tier

25,860 vs Leeds in the 2nd tier

 

A good point but I think most people are disappointed with the crowd bearing in mind the quality that is being served up every home game. We have lost the 4 to 5 thousand Prem hangers on and free lunchers (sorry corporate hospitality) and so will not achieve 30,000 but I think it should be 27 to 28 thousand

[Glasgow_Saint]

I had to pay £42 for a restricted ticket at the old firm yesterday........prices in football are just too high

[buctootim]

A good point but I think most people are disappointed with the crowd bearing in mind the quality that is being served up every home game. We have lost the 4 to 5 thousand Prem hangers on and free lunchers (sorry corporate hospitality) and so will not achieve 30,000 but I think it should be 27 to 28 thousand

 

Probably would be 27-28,000 without the recession. At a rough guess 5% of Saints fans have lost their jobs in the past few years and another 20% or so have seen wages frozen whilst bills rise. Luxuries like football will always take second place behind mortages and kids shoes.

[Jones91]

Duh, its blatently obvious the missing 10k fans are watching the Rugby in New Zealand...

[Ohio Saint]

I have to admit that it's kinda convenient being stuck over here in Ohio. It means that I don't have to justify some absenteeism due to not being able to afford attending every home game.

[Saint_Jonny]

I had to pay £42 for a restricted ticket at the old firm yesterday........prices in football are just too high

 

£42 to watch an SPL match! You mug. Isn't it pretty much semi-pro these days?

[70's Mike]

A good point but I think most people are disappointed with the crowd bearing in mind the quality that is being served up every home game. We have lost the 4 to 5 thousand Prem hangers on and free lunchers (sorry corporate hospitality) and so will not achieve 30,000 but I think it should be 27 to 28 thousand

 

Totally agree, the bulk of the empty seats are central Itchen and Itchen/Chapel corner.

[View From The Top]

All 6 of our tickets went unused yesterday. Plenty of folk have other commitments on Sundays.

[Glasgow_Saint]

£42 to watch an SPL match! You mug. Isn't it pretty much semi-pro these days?

 

pretty much - old firm games still worth a watch though

[Chez]

So I would absolutely refute the suggestion by Andoverian that actions by the club have put people off from coming;

you don't think the 40% (73% in the case of the 60-65 brigade) rise in prices has had any affect at all on attendances?

[sandwichsaint]

All 6 of our tickets went unused yesterday. Plenty of folk have other commitments on Sundays.

 

Cue the old chestnut 'They would have been counted in the attendance anyway'.

 

I've never seen any 'evidence' that this urban myth is in fact FACT.

 

Why would they count people that aren't there?

 

No one wants to know how many tkts have been sold, we want to know how many came through the turnstiles and watched the game.

 

Looked like the (very late) promotion on the Chapel arm-chairs fell a little flat?

[AndyNorthernSaints]

I suspect the weather meant the walk up wasn't great yesterday either.

 

Do people really decide not to go to a game if it's raining?

[pressingon]

A good point but I think most people are disappointed with the crowd bearing in mind the quality that is being served up every home game. We have lost the 4 to 5 thousand Prem hangers on and free lunchers (sorry corporate hospitality) and so will not achieve 30,000 but I think it should be 27 to 28 thousand

Top of the league, top goalscorers, 13 games winning streak at home, best team for years = 23,000

Promotion day last may = 32,000

JPT 50,000 +

FFS

[70's Mike]

Top of the league, top goalscorers, 13 games winning streak at home, best team for years = 23,000

Promotion day last may = 32,000

JPT 50,000 +

FFS

 

sums up football all over the world

look at the 50million on Southsea common where are they now

[Toomer]

The fact that it was peeing down with rain might have had an effect on the walk up numbers, we got in the ground early and missed it felt sorry for some of the poor buggers soaked through to the skin.

[once_bitterne]

Apologies for absence.

I have two season tickets but run a team on a Sunday in the Hampshire County Youth League. Unfortunately we cannot cancel matches because Birmingham play European football on a Thursday.

I expect many others who play/run youth or senior football on a Sunday had a similar problem yesterday.

 

Don't worry as your 2 tickets still counted to the attendance figure as it is tickets sold not people through the turnstiles!

[once_bitterne]

Cue the old chestnut 'They would have been counted in the attendance anyway'.

 

I've never seen any 'evidence' that this urban myth is in fact FACT.

 

Why would they count people that aren't there?

 

No one wants to know how many tkts have been sold, we want to know how many came through the turnstiles and watched the game.

 

Looked like the (very late) promotion on the Chapel arm-chairs fell a little flat?

 

The tax man does. He also doesn't give a toss how many of those who had bought tickets don't show up. Football attendances always include all tickets sold.

 

It's a bit different in US sports where they do also list the number of 'no shows' against the attendance figure but that has never been done in the UK.

[The Kraken]

you don't think the 40% (73% in the case of the 60-65 brigade) rise in prices has had any affect at all on attendances?

 

Perhaps a slight effect, but not hugely. There are two decent benchmarks to judge our attendances by; last year's average attendance, and the average attendances the last times we were in the Championship. This season's average attendance (to date) is significantly higher than anything comparable previously. Therefore while some people may stay away for whatever reason, we've clearly attracted more people than we've lost, which is why I can't agree that the actions of the club have had an overall effect of driving people away.

 

You're always going to get people who decide not to games any longer, or go to less than they did. And that is always offset by attracting new customers to the club, or getting existing customers to attend more frequently. That we right now have a higher average attendances than other comparable seasons is not a stick to beat the football club with IMO.

[Greenridge]

Ticket pricing is in economic terms relatively inelastic in that a small change in price (either upwards or downwards) has an almost insignficant effect on ticket sales. The general economic condition of the country and general downward trend in attendance figures nationally along with the previously mentioned reasons contribute more significantly.

[Lighthouse]

Top of the league, top goalscorers, 13 games winning streak at home, best team for years = 23,000

Promotion day last may = 32,000

JPT 50,000 +

FFS

 

I would say that's fairly obvious. There's a recession on, people have much less disposable income and £25 a head for a football match is a luxury item. Let's say someone can only afford 1 home game a month. Would you spend it on a Wembley cup final, a promotion deciding final game of the season or a bog standard Saturday afternoon against Millwall?

 

It's not that people are plastic, but £50 - £100 a month on football ticket's is more than many can afford. If people have kids and partners to take, you could be looking at £300 - £500.

[Ken Tone]

Do people really decide not to go to a game if it's raining?

 

Were you there mate? It wasn't just 'raining', it was chucking it down in lumps, to the extent that there was flash-flooding on some roads, and at one point I seriously wondered if the game might not start on time because of waterlogging. I suspect that will have put off a few 'walk-ups'.

 

I was a bit disappointed that no one took up the chant that one bloke near me started in response to 'red army' -- 'red navy!'

 

What really surprised me was how poor the Birmingham turnout was. Less than a thousand from a recent premier league side less than 150 miles away was pathetic.

[pressingon]

This season's average attendance (to date) is significantly higher than anything comparable previously. Therefore while some people may stay away for whatever reason, we've clearly attracted more people than we've lost, QUOTE]

Not sure I follow this or that the facts support it can you be a bit more specific?

[Super_Uwe]

Well I haven't seen Saints play since September 2009 when they beat Yeovil at home. In that time we've won the JPT, got promoted and now sit top of the tree in the Champ.

 

I'm not convinced I should be making the effort any time soon to be fair....!

[The Kraken]

Not sure I follow this or that the facts support it can you be a bit more specific?

 

Sure.

 

Our average attendance for the 4 home league games played this season is 24,033.

 

First benchmark: last season's average attendance was 22,161. The season before was 20,982. So clearly we are already well up on that.

 

Second benchmark: average attendances last time we were in the Championship.

2005/06: 23,613

2006/07: 23,556

2007/08: 21,254

2008/09: 17,849

 

Hugely up on figures from 2007-2009, and around 500 up on figures from 2005-07. We will of course have some lower gates in future against the lesser lights, but equally we should get very good turnouts against Brighton, Pompey, Reading and Palace that will offset that.

 

So, by any reasonable benchmark, attendances are up this season.

[pressingon]

Thanks for the stats must say I was suprised with 2006/7, thought it was more

As you say if we continue this start & with the derby games we will buck the trend

Onwards and upwards

[Saint Garrett]

I am a bit surprised that we're not nearing a sell out at the moment. I'm sure that will come as we get to the business end to the season. Hopefully, we'll also take a fair few to Burnley next week.