Thedelldays Posted 16 September, 2011 Share Posted 16 September, 2011 get those green machines ready NOW.. god help us if it happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 16 September, 2011 Share Posted 16 September, 2011 Ive never understood why the government keep those 1950s green goddesses,because they are so slow and outdated.Surely they could buy a few ex fire engines that are no longer in use?At least they would be a lot newer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 16 September, 2011 Share Posted 16 September, 2011 Ive never understood why the government keep those 1950s green goddesses,because they are so slow and outdated.Surely they could buy a few ex fire engines that are no longer in use?At least they would be a lot newer. AssetCo, suppliers of fire engines, have had their shares suspended and their former bosses are under investigation. Unfortunately, the link below isn't working at the moment Exclusive: London fire company former bosses investigated as shares suspended davidhencke.wordpress.com so that sort of knocks your idea on the head, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 16 September, 2011 Share Posted 16 September, 2011 Well i suppose the government could do the right thing and not force the firemen to pay more for their pensions and work longer? No i didnt think so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 16 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 16 September, 2011 Ive never understood why the government keep those 1950s green goddesses,because they are so slow and outdated.Surely they could buy a few ex fire engines that are no longer in use?At least they would be a lot newer. Or during a strike we should be able to use the state owned appliances that are new and not the green things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 16 September, 2011 Share Posted 16 September, 2011 Or during a strike we should be able to use the state owned appliances that are new and not the green things? Who exactly is 'we'...???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latter day saint Posted 16 September, 2011 Share Posted 16 September, 2011 Or during a strike we should be able to use the state owned appliances that are new and not the green things? cant do that as it would really upset the striking firemen. f*ck the poor people burning to death in their homes though eh ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 16 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 16 September, 2011 Who exactly is 'we'...???? me and my work buddies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Um Bongo Posted 16 September, 2011 Share Posted 16 September, 2011 It's a crucial job, If it was me, I wouldn't be striking. Knowing that possibly your actions by not working could endanger lives...not good. And I know what the proposed cuts are like! They aren't the only one's having their pension reviewed or having to work longer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 16 September, 2011 Share Posted 16 September, 2011 Firefighters... pah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 (edited) Well i suppose the government could do the right thing and not force the firemen to pay more for their pensions and work longer? Meanwhile everyone else in the real world has to.... Or during a strike we should be able to use the state owned appliances that are new and not the green things? Never understood this ... The life saving assets belong to the state and should be used. The problem is that it takes power away from the union, but never mind, only a few extra people will die as a result and the union clearly thinks this is a small price to pay. I know this is hypothetical, but if a firefighter's house is on fire and their wife and kids were inside, would they break ranks to save them, or would they let them burn as they would someone else's family? A bit of a moral d ilemma there. Edited 17 September, 2011 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 (edited) This is a tough one for me. I work in the private sector, earn a half decent wage, but still have had to endure pay a freeze so I don't see why public sector workers should have their gold plated pensions protected and not feel the same effects as everyone else. BUT, the bankers are holding the country to ransom (tax us more and we will go abroad), and there are so many people still making obscene amounts of money not contributing anything like what Firefighters do to society. Because of this I actually welcome these strikes, the super rich need to know it's not just them who can hold society to ransom. See how useful your pile of money is when there is no police to stop the looters from helping themselves. Edited 17 September, 2011 by aintforever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 This is a tough one for me. I work in the private sector, earn a half decent wage, but still have had to endure pay a freeze so I don't see why public sector workers should have their gold plated pensions protected and not feel the same effects as everyone else. BUT, the bankers are holding the country to ransom (tax us more and we will go abroad), and there are so many people still making obscene amounts of money not contributing anything like what Firefighters do to society. Because of this I actually welcome these strikes, the super rich need to know it's not just them who can hold society to ransom. See how useful your pile of money is when there is no police to stop the looters from helping themselves. I agree with some of your sentiments and in my view the bankers have got away with it. However, can you remind me when the Police last went on strike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 why should fire-fighters get paid a relatively low wage, when they are expected to go into life endangering situations every day? Then, why should they have to pay more for a pension and get less out of it at the end, when a pension is one of the only perks of the career? Is it because people still think fire-fighters sit about and do nothing on a day to day basis, and thus don't deserve the money? because that is tripe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 Firefighters should be one of the highest paid professions IMO. Put their life on the line every shift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 should have their gold plated pensions protected Whilst I accept that there is an obvious need for pension reform and an informed debate about the situation, I do sometimes get rolly eyed with regards the Mailesque branding of Public Sectir Pensions as gold plated. Fred Goodwin's £16m, £650,000 a year pension payable from the age of 50 is gold plated (particularly after presiding over a £24bn loss in his final year)!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon monkey Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 Fire fighters earn a decent living and they are very well looked after with regards to pension and should they pick up any injuries. They fight less fires now than they ever have and a lot of their work is through vehicle accidents. Of course they have all the car washes, school talks and fire alarm installations. The fire service enjoy the spotlight but frankly they should just get on and do their job and stop moaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawillwill Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 Firefighters should be one of the highest paid professions IMO. Put their life on the line every shift. I agree to an extent, but they do spend about 99% of their time playing table tennis/pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 I found this very interesting article on the benefits and rates of contribution for the various public sector pension schemes http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11446829 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 My mate is a fireman. I run a golf society that plays every couple of months or so, he books a "sick day" each time we play. He also runs around during work hours, collecting green fees from various members. I know he does a valuble and brave job and sometimes will have to deal with situations that would make most people **** themselves, but they do take the ****. Nurses, police officers, The military, teachers, social workers, firemen, Doctors,Prison officers,paramedic's, Mid wife's, we can't exempt them all from the reality of 2011. We dont live in a leftie paradise, where the decifit can be reduced by taxing the bankers and everybody who does a "worthy" job is left alone. Given inflation linked pay rises, decent pensions and early retirement. I'm getting sick to death of switching on programmes like QT and having some public sector worker moaning about how "they didn't cause the financial meltdown" . Complaining about having to pay more into their pension and get less out whilst working longer. Their only alternative seems to be "tax the bankers". Well the girl working in my local Barclays didn't cause the meltdown, the cleaner at RBS didn't. I have had to pay more into my pension, will get less out and will have to retire a bit later and I didn't have anything to do with the bust. We really are all in it together and that includes Fireman, teachers and bloody policemen............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2011 why should fire-fighters get paid a relatively low wage, when they are expected to go into life endangering situations every day? eer, they are quite well paid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 eer, they are quite well paid A couple of grand above the national average, on a par with midwives, social workers, electrical fitters & Office managers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2011 A couple of grand above the national average, on a par with midwives, social workers, electrical fitters & Office managers and work 4 day weeks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 and work 4 day weeks, So does my brother down the docks (and like firefighters works two day shifts and then two night shifts, then four days off)!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2011 So does my brother down the docks (and like firefighters works two day shifts and then two night shifts, then four days off)!! there we go (what your brother has to do with anything what so ever, I have no idea) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 Mr TF works 4 days then has 4 days off then works 4 nights and then has 4 days off. When people rotate day / night shifts, they need the 4 day break to turn their body clocks round. His shifts are 12 hours long. Because of the shift pattern, he works 5 weekends out of 8. He gets a shift allowance for this. Rotating shift working (such as Mr TF, firemen, police, nurses etc) is hard on the constitution and very unsocial - hence the enhanced payments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2011 Mr TF works 4 days then has 4 days off then works 4 nights and then has 4 days off. When people rotate day / night shifts, they need the 4 day break to turn their body clocks round. His shifts are 12 hours long. Because of the shift pattern, he works 5 weekends out of 8. He gets a shift allowance for this. Rotating shift working (such as Mr TF, firemen, police, nurses etc) is hard on the constitution and very unsocial - hence the enhanced payments. really...? is that a medical opinion..? wish I had it that good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jillyanne Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 there we go (what your brother has to do with anything what so ever, I have no idea) Quite risky working at the docks you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 there we go (what your brother has to do with anything what so ever, I have no idea) As in a "4 day week" is nothing special, particularly when the hours are still around 40+ and can be unsociable. It's not as though they work 4 x 7.5 hour days and then have Friday to Sunday off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2011 As in a "4 day week" is nothing special, particularly when the hours are still around 40+ and can be unsociable. It's not as though they work 4 x 7.5 hour days and then have Friday to Sunday off. ah, ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 A couple of grand above the national average, on a par with midwives, social workers, electrical fitters & Office managers normally need some sort of qualifications for these...firemen from when i looked to apply ten years ago, just needed your basic GCSEs as qualifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 really...? is that a medical opinion..? wish I had it that good Oh because you're so bloody hard done by, aren't you - always on here grumbling about how much harder your life is than anyone else's. It takes 2 days to slowly adjust the body clock after a night shift, leaving him 2 days 'free time', just like the rest of the world. Although he has, of course, worked a 48 hour 'week'. Medical studies have shown time and time again that rotating shifts and / or night working have a detrimental effect on the constitution. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4466555.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2011 (edited) Oh because you're so bloody hard done by, aren't you - always on here grumbling about how much harder your life is than anyone else's. It takes 2 days to slowly adjust the body clock after a night shift, leaving him 2 days 'free time', just like the rest of the world. Although he has, of course, worked a 48 hour 'week'. Medical studies have shown time and time again that rotating shifts and / or night working have a detrimental effect on the constitution. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4466555.stm so a study says so...not gospel then, things like shift patterns etc im sure they accept as part of the job...this is not in dispute I dont complain about having it hard..just when the country is clearly broke those with a good number kick off bet you would be the first to complain shouls MYSELF kick off about my lot with the money I earn/pension I get etc... firemen have a good number...we did their job over a period of time with completely pathetic equipment, about 1 weeks training and no where near the numbers...hence why their requests for a 47% pay rise was in the end, laughed at... Edited 17 September, 2011 by Thedelldays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 normally need some sort of qualifications for these...firemen from when i looked to apply ten years ago, just needed your basic GCSEs as qualifications. Slightly less than the police, who also don't need qualifications http://www.rbfrs.co.uk/job_ff_wt_pay.html http://www.policeoracle.com/pay_and_conditions/police_pay_scales.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 (edited) Nurses, police officers, The military, teachers, social workers, firemen, Doctors,Prison officers,paramedic's, Mid wife's, we can't exempt them all from the reality of 2011. We dont live in a leftie paradise, where the decifit can be reduced by taxing the bankers and everybody who does a "worthy" job is left alone. Given inflation linked pay rises, decent pensions and early retirement. Could you please find a non- Daily Mail source to back up this assertion. http://www.communitycare.co.uk/Articles/2011/02/17/116300/local-authority-social-workers-hit-by-pay-freeze.htm "Local authority social workers and other care professionals will not receive a pay rise in 2011-12, Local Government Employers has announced." http://www.emergencyshorts.co.uk/story/4990/fire/Fire_Brigades_Union/Fire_Brigades_Union_takes_first_step_to_industrial_action_ballot/ "We’re already facing a pay freeze at a time of raging inflation and major frontline cuts" http://www.nursingtimes.net/nursing-practice/clinical-specialisms/management/pay-freeze-confirmed-for-those-earning-over-21000/5027466.article "Pay freeze confirmed for those earning over £21,000" http://www.teachers.org.uk/files/school-teachers-pay-2011-document.doc "The Government has confirmed its intention to impose a pay freeze for qualified teachers in 2011 and 2012. With RPI at its highest for twenty years and expected to stay above 4 per cent throughout 2011 and planned increases in pension contributions in April 2012, teachers face a significant real terms pay cut of more than 10 per cent over the next two years." Edited 17 September, 2011 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 Slightly less than the police, who also don't need qualifications http://www.rbfrs.co.uk/job_ff_wt_pay.html http://www.policeoracle.com/pay_and_conditions/police_pay_scales.html yep - its why my missus was ****ed off by doing 3 years at uni to become a nurse and then be on a lower pay scale base wage to the police/fire brigade. Also another reason she chose to work over here was the crappy pay lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 ....... bet you would be the first to complain shouls MYSELF kick off about my lot with the money I earn/pension I get etc... ... For which you pay not one penny yourself, I believe. Whereas firefighters currently contribute 11% of salary and this will rise to 13% if the government gets its way. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11446834 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2011 For which you pay not one penny yourself, I believe. Whereas firefighters currently contribute 11% of salary and this will rise to 13% if the government gets its way. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11446834 so, you would say something if I complained about my lot..? I go away for months on end and put my life on the line...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 so, you would say something if I complained about my lot..? I go away for months on end and put my life on the line...? as do firefighters - remember that tower block fire last year, in which 2 firefighters died? I wouldn't comment if you chose to complain about your lot (if you didn't do it on an almost daily basis). But just be careful that chip on your shoulder doesn't develop into a chasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2011 as do firefighters - remember that tower block fire last year, in which 2 firefighters died? I wouldn't comment if you chose to complain about your lot (if you didn't do it on an almost daily basis). But just be careful that chip on your shoulder doesn't develop into a chasm. it seems...like the rest of us that they may face cuts or take what is on offer.....lets see the way they go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 it seems...like the rest of us that they may face cuts or take what is on offer.....lets see the way they go The ones in South Wales, having risked life and limb in an effort to rescue those trapped miners, have spent today (probably their recovery day) raising money for the families of the dead miners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2011 The ones in South Wales, having risked life and limb in an effort to rescue those trapped miners, have spent today (probably their recovery day) raising money for the families of the dead miners. indeed..its called their job..its part of their job description.....as is some kid going to afghan and walking through a mine field...as is a nurse mopping up someones vomit as is......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 it seems...like the rest of us that they may face cuts or take what is on offer.....lets see the way they go Unlike you, they pay into their pension scheme so you are getting for free what they are fighting to protect and I would suggest the mortality rate for firefighters is higher than that for submariners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 indeed..its called their job..its part of their job description.....as is some kid going to afghan and walking through a mine field...as is a nurse mopping up someones vomit as is......... What is? Raising money for charity? Really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 so a study says so...not gospel then, There have been many studies on this and it's one reason the EU working directive was introduced. Health effects of shift work are: Reduction in quality and quantity of sleep Anxiety, depression, and increased neuroticism Increasing evidence of adverse cardiovascular effects Possible increase in gastrointestinal disorders Increased risk of spontaneous abortion, low birth weight, and prematurity. HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2011 There have been many studies on this and it's one reason the EU working directive was introduced. Health effects of shift work are: Reduction in quality and quantity of sleep Anxiety, depression, and increased neuroticism Increasing evidence of adverse cardiovascular effects Possible increase in gastrointestinal disorders Increased risk of spontaneous abortion, low birth weight, and prematurity. HTH. sweet....will report this in the morning to my superiors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 I love the rush to the bottom arguments on here, they are so inspiring!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 September, 2011 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2011 I love the rush to the bottom arguments on here, they are so inspiring!!! feel free to leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Um Bongo Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 I agree with some of your sentiments and in my view the bankers have got away with it. However, can you remind me when the Police last went on strike? Police officers can't strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 17 September, 2011 Share Posted 17 September, 2011 I agree with some of your sentiments and in my view the bankers have got away with it. However, can you remind me when the Police last went on strike? Easy, 1919. The Police are currently banned from taking strike action under the Police Act 1996, and have been banned from striking since 1919. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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