Saint Fan CaM Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 Thought he looked comfortable on the ball - aerially he was not impressive for a big bloke (as others have said, he kept heading up in the air) - shockingly poor man-marking. Hope he can improve with training/games/match fitness and bedding into the defence or I can see some problems. Frankly on that performance I would rather Jaidi or even Martin got the job first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 I see hypo is murdering another thread good work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Mabes Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 It certainly wasn't a booming debut, but it was ok. He was better in the first half, but then eveyone looked nervy for the first 30mins of the second half. My main issue was him heading it accidently behind him/up in the air into the danger zone when their forwards were running at us, as others have eluded to, but can't imagine this will be a consistent thing. He seemed quite comfortable on the ball and did pass it out well. Happy with the signing but think Martin could do a similar job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pressingon Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 If you mean me then yes I was. Itchen north block 4 row h to be precise. Is it a seat with a restricted view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 Schneiderlin giving the ball away in midfield allowed Forest to break quickly for the first goal, we were short at the back, Cork and Fonte were bypassed, the left side were sucked across as was Davis the cross missed them all out and was tapped in at the far post. It was a good goal and executed well, it was down to sharp counter attacking by Forest rather than any one individuals failings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 (edited) I see hypo is murdering another thread good work So when I'm accused of things that aren't true I'm not allowed to defend myself? I see that some have also agreed with me (and some disagreed but that's the beauty of diverse opinions.) Are they exaggerating too? I don't think he was terrible but I thought he lacked some control and looked nervous. It's his first game so certainly he can improve but not an improvement on Seaborne so far. Edited 11 September, 2011 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 I don't think you understood my post. You are perfectly entitled to think that, but equally others are allowed to disagree with you without being accused of their opinion being false because they are a fans favourite. Not being patronising at all, I'm actually encouraging different opinions. You sir, are 'aving a laugh,surely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 I'm perfectly entitled to an opinion. My comments were entirely fair and I called it as I saw it. Once again some posters on here are deciding what can and cannot be posted. Re-read my post. I did not say that you are not entitled to your opinion, but that your statements are prone to unqualified exaggeration. For example, although I agree that Forest dominated nearly all of the second half, they could not have dominated it entirely otherwise we could not have scored and held on to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 hypo making knee-jerk reactionary statements again much like the post walsall comments we all read the other day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasiak-9- Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 The differing opinions on this thread as well as the mixed reception Seabourne and Martin got when they played kind of sums up the genuine problem at the back for Saints - you can't pin it on one individual because it isn't that simple, the problem we've got is that we defend quite poorly as a unit and are often vulnerable to the counter-attack or having the ball passed through us when we stand off teams too much etc.etc. If you look at a team like Barcelona in contrast - I think its pretty much accepted that none of their defenders are what you'd consider great individuals (in relation to their standard of football, which is of course top of the league/cl winners etc.) but they control possession so well and defend as a unit and a team so perfectly that they've been able to get away with a very average goalkeeper and defence for a long time. The first goal yesterday was arguably the fault of Davis but both Hooiveld and Fox should never have let Derbyshire run in to score so easily. I don't blame Fonte for it at all - he did all he could, held his man up and sent him wide and forced him to put in a fairly weak ball in that should have been easy enough to defend. Problem was that Hooiveld assumed Davis would have it so stayed around the penalty spot to defend the pull-back and when the ball did go across goal Fox's positioning was awry because he clearly lost track his man but also where his keeper, centre-backs etc. were in relation to the play. The second goal was to be fair an excellent pass through and a very good goal from an attacking perspective, but once again its hard to blame any individual when the centre-midfield and defence is collectively unaware of when to press/when to stand off and which runs they're keeping track of. Again its tough to simply pin the blame on Hooiveld or anyone in particular when I think that frankly we'd have probably conceded the same goal with John Terry at the back - its not an individuals mistake. I'm not saying that defensive skill doesn't matter - not in the slightest. The point that I am making however is that we need to stop simply thinking that things will magically get better if we simply plonk a new centre-back in and if it doesn't work out in the first few games then obviously he must not be any good. Football just aint that simple lads... It takes time, and it takes organisation, and there will be a period of adjustment when changes are being made to our starting back four - especially against one of the better attacking teams in the league. Above all we need to learn to defend as a unit and indeed learn to organise ourselves for defending against different types of attacking threat (lets be fair - when was the last time a team came to St. Mary's and attacked us at home like Forest did yesterday?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 Re-read my post. I did not say that you are not entitled to your opinion, but that your statements are prone to unqualified exaggeration. For example, although I agree that Forest dominated nearly all of the second half, they could not have dominated it entirely otherwise we could not have scored and held on to win. Fine they dominated nearly all of the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 hypo making knee-jerk reactionary statements again much like the post walsall comments we all read the other day You are a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 You are a troll. Ha ha ha!.....that from our resident WUM, is a real lol moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints triumph Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 Thought he had a decent game myself considering it was his first game and didn't have the benefit of any prior partnership. He won every header he challenged for and simply laid the ball off to the full back to get a move going rather than hoofing it straight back up field. When they attacked down the middle he didn't rush in with a rash challenge but jockeyed the player out wide. I think the 2 goals forest scored where due to a lack of understanding from the makeshift defence. He will push Dan Seaborne all the way, which can only be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 Thought he was alright but felt he could of done a bit better too. The first goal he could of stuck a leg out or something to try and stop the pass going across the box. Fox lost his marker who then had an easy tap in. Fox was to blame for that one imo. Their 2nd goal though he and Fonte were caught ball watching and a simple through ball caught them both out. They both should of done a lot better with the tracking there. I felt Jos also gave the ball away a bit too easily at times. Think there was a bit near the end where he was caught on the ball and had to conceed a corner. Overall though he did what was needed and after a few games of playing alongside Fonte he could do alright. But he has to improve as does Fox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 From the comments on here and having spoken to people who went to the match he was OK but not outstanding. However I was hoping for something better and still feel we should have spent the apparent £1.8m that we paid for Fox on a really good young CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 From the comments on here and having spoken to people who went to the match he was OK but not outstanding. However I was hoping for something better and still feel we should have spent the apparent £1.8m that we paid for Fox on a really good young CB how do we know that this player wont be good...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 From the comments on here and having spoken to people who went to the match he was OK but not outstanding. However I was hoping for something better and still feel we should have spent the apparent £1.8m that we paid for Fox on a really good young CB Who's the really good young CB we could have got for £1.8m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 Who's the really good young CB we could have got for £1.8m? Gorkss is not exactly young but he went to Reading for less than £1M. Would have been the ideal signing IMO. I'm still expecting Fox to be a much better option than Harding, hopefully just needs games to settle in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 Gorkss is not exactly young but he went to Reading for less than £1M. Would have been the ideal signing IMO. I'm still expecting Fox to be a much better option than Harding, hopefully just needs games to settle in. we shall see if their fortunes change for the better in any way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 Gorkss is not exactly young but he went to Reading for less than £1M. Would have been the ideal signing IMO. I'm still expecting Fox to be a much better option than Harding, hopefully just needs games to settle in. From the Warnock hoo-haa I got the impression that we just weren't that keen on Gorkss for the price. I wonder how much they wanted to charge us for him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsash saint Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 The differing opinions on this thread as well as the mixed reception Seabourne and Martin got when they played kind of sums up the genuine problem at the back for Saints - you can't pin it on one individual because it isn't that simple, the problem we've got is that we defend quite poorly as a unit and are often vulnerable to the counter-attack or having the ball passed through us when we stand off teams too much etc.etc. If you look at a team like Barcelona in contrast - I think its pretty much accepted that none of their defenders are what you'd consider great individuals (in relation to their standard of football, which is of course top of the league/cl winners etc.) but they control possession so well and defend as a unit and a team so perfectly that they've been able to get away with a very average goalkeeper and defence for a long time. The first goal yesterday was arguably the fault of Davis but both Hooiveld and Fox should never have let Derbyshire run in to score so easily. I don't blame Fonte for it at all - he did all he could, held his man up and sent him wide and forced him to put in a fairly weak ball in that should have been easy enough to defend. Problem was that Hooiveld assumed Davis would have it so stayed around the penalty spot to defend the pull-back and when the ball did go across goal Fox's positioning was awry because he clearly lost track his man but also where his keeper, centre-backs etc. were in relation to the play. The second goal was to be fair an excellent pass through and a very good goal from an attacking perspective, but once again its hard to blame any individual when the centre-midfield and defence is collectively unaware of when to press/when to stand off and which runs they're keeping track of. Again its tough to simply pin the blame on Hooiveld or anyone in particular when I think that frankly we'd have probably conceded the same goal with John Terry at the back - its not an individuals mistake. I'm not saying that defensive skill doesn't matter - not in the slightest. The point that I am making however is that we need to stop simply thinking that things will magically get better if we simply plonk a new centre-back in and if it doesn't work out in the first few games then obviously he must not be any good. Football just aint that simple lads... It takes time, and it takes organisation, and there will be a period of adjustment when changes are being made to our starting back four - especially against one of the better attacking teams in the league. Above all we need to learn to defend as a unit and indeed learn to organise ourselves for defending against different types of attacking threat (lets be fair - when was the last time a team came to St. Mary's and attacked us at home like Forest did yesterday?) 111 posts & finally a decent response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulstersaint Posted 11 September, 2011 Share Posted 11 September, 2011 Last post of the day... I was there, he looked to he exactly what we need. Fact. Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andover_Saint07 Posted 12 September, 2011 Share Posted 12 September, 2011 Shocking - At fault for both goals From what i see fox was caught napping for both goals? not jos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 12 September, 2011 Share Posted 12 September, 2011 I thought Jos did okay actually but Rasiak 9 has taken the emotiveness out of it and analysed exactly why we are shaky at the back - a lack of leadership. In midfield we have Hammond and Rickie very much leads the forward line but there isn't enough responsibility being taken at the back for keeping our shape as a cohesive unit. Let's give Forest some credit though, the second goal in particular was very well worked. If Seaborne is going to be long-term - and it looks likely, we do need to get another loan CB in this week in this area as Jaidi won't be match-fit much before Xmas I'd imagine (he's been 2 weeks away since August) and if we get any injuries or suspensions at CB we could be in trouble. Again, Fox had the same trouble, to compare him to Harding is a bit harsh given that Kelvin and Harding are founder members of the current defensive set-up so Harding has played 100+ games with the likes of Lallana. Good 3 points that and nice journey home but do need to strengthen with loans at CB and also striker as can't see Barney involved that much over the trial period and again, we are vulnerable in that area to injuries and bans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Saint Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 How did Jos get on today for people at the game? Sound solid on the commentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 Much better this week, only missed a couple of headers, teamed up well with Fonte who as as result had his best game this season against two big strikers who were well marked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 He was good, better than last week. Thought he had the better of King for 90% of the game, he's got a great touch and is very handy on the ball - helps us play out of the back nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 He was good, better than last week. Thought he had the better of King for 90% of the game, he's got a great touch and is very handy on the ball - helps us play out of the back nicely. Good to hear. Am hoping to go to Cardiff away so lets hope he continues that solid form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(not THE) Kevin Moore Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 I thought he looked solid and very good on the ball, he's not slow either, in the first half he made up quite a bit of ground on the striker to regain possession. The whole defence had a wobble at the start of the 2nd half but that was more to do with the midfield giving the ball away. A solid game and a thumbs up so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 As class as Fonte is, he has this weakness of covering the faults of those around him, demeaning his own performance. Today I never saw that and the central pair worked very well as a unit. Not enough of a performance from the Hoover to rave about, but good enough to put a smile on your face as he can play it out from the back. Early days yet, but it would not surprise me if he went on to deliver far more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 Given he was out of favour at a weird club, went out on loan and did well and still couldn't get into that Celtic side, his confidence, mental-sharpness and match-sharpness must be down. The fact he seems to be improving with every game he plays for us is reassuring, I just hope he and Fonte continue to play together because on paper, they are a very good partnership. I'm all for squad rotation and 'using the squad', but the CB partnership is the one thing I think should be consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 I'm all for squad rotation and 'using the squad', but the CB partnership is the one thing I think should be consistent. Until one of them gets injured or suspended, and you need a match-fit replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 Until one of them gets injured or suspended, and you need a match-fit replacement. Not a problem - he's only looking after that slot whilst Martin develops and he's not far off. Jaidi is also just a couple of weeks away and Seaborne will be back eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 8/10 today. Very solid, dealt with a lot of balls lumped up to the front 2, and played out very well. Promising partnership developing with Fonte hopefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redondo Saint Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 first game i have been to this year anud thought he was our worst player not impressed at all still, its all about opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colehillsaint Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 first game i have been to this year anud thought he was our worst player not impressed at all still, its all about opinions I thought he looked OK today, but anyway he played miles better than he did against forest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 Until one of them gets injured or suspended, and you need a match-fit replacement. Well Duh. Of course you don't leave an injured player in position. My point was I can appreciate a change in players anywhere else, even if the performance of the original player was good. But if fit the CB partnership should, IMO, be kept consistent. I genuinely didn't think anyone would fail to see that was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 Well Duh. Of course you don't leave an injured player in position. My point was I can appreciate a change in players anywhere else, even if the performance of the original player was good. But if fit the CB partnership should, IMO, be kept consistent. I genuinely didn't think anyone would fail to see that was my point. I think you missed my point. If you have 2 fantastic CBs who play all of your competitive games, then if 1 of them gets injured, you haven't got another CB in the squad who has any competitive game experience to step in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 Still not convinced be interesting to see how he deals under pressure in an away fixture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 Better today. Still looks like Bambi on ice at times (but I'm willing to concede the weather probably played a part today). Still not as dominant in the air as I would like (but I think i've been spoilt be two seasons of the man moutain that is Jaidi) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 Hmm so looks like a few mixed opinions. Still, he didn't do anything drastically wrong and you will hope he improves. Against forest I felt he stood out in a bad way as someone not really 'part' of our team (not surprising considering how little he had played.) Was he like that today or did he look a good fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 Hmm so looks like a few mixed opinions. Still, he didn't do anything drastically wrong and you will hope he improves. Against forest I felt he stood out in a bad way as someone not really 'part' of our team (not surprising considering how little he had played.) Was he like that today or did he look a good fit? Fonte and Joss the boss were having a hug before the match started .................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 He looked "better, but" would be my response. The back four looked tighter, but still not infallible, but then again we had a mixed bunch playing against Forest last week. He looked better, but still not convinced he's what we needed. Lost the ball completely at one point in the second half and then eventually realised it was behind him, gave away the silly free kick they scored form and his distribution needs working on. Against that he was a bit of a lump when we needed one and got some good challenges in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 Hmm so looks like a few mixed opinions. Still, he didn't do anything drastically wrong and you will hope he improves. Against forest I felt he stood out in a bad way as someone not really 'part' of our team (not surprising considering how little he had played.) Was he like that today or did he look a good fit? Thought he and Fonte had a reasonable understanding. He will only improve IMO, as will their partnership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 Thought he had a decent game - King and Wood, two big lads, won very little in the air. His positioning for crosses was sometimes off but that will improve as he, Fonte and the other defenders develop a better understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 Another good performance from him today. If he continues like this I hope we sign him up full time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 Jos impressed me today. Mobile and good in the air, likes to play out from the back too. It's early days but if he carries on playing like he did today I would sign him up, he and Fonte look solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 He looked "better, but" would be my response. The back four looked tighter, but still not infallible, but then again we had a mixed bunch playing against Forest last week. He looked better, but still not convinced he's what we needed. Lost the ball completely at one point in the second half and then eventually realised it was behind him, gave away the silly free kick they scored form and his distribution needs working on. Against that he was a bit of a lump when we needed one and got some good challenges in. Thanks. A friend at the game had similar thoughts to yourself but on Solent they thought he was decent so I was a bit confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 18 September, 2011 Share Posted 18 September, 2011 Funny how different opinions are from people who watch the same game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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