If we were still at the Dell, where would be in the leagues?

[1976_Child]

So, if we had not moved to SMS and still played at the Dell where would you think are 'natural' position would be in the leagues?

 

For me, I would say top of league one maybe bouncing in and out of the Championship every now and again. I know we started life in the newly-formed Prem at the Dell but I just can't see it happening today. There is no doubt the facilities and cash-flow from SMS would attract higher quality players.

 

Interested to know other people's thoughts..

[Ohio Saint]

Without the new ground we would not have snagged Marcus.End of Saints as we knew them. End of thread.

Edited 8 September, 2011 by Ohio Saint

[100%Red&White]

Bouncing around the top half of the Championship.

[Bad Wolf]

Mid table in the Championship

[Huntingdon]

I think only the traditionalists crave The Dell

 

SMS has enabled more fans to come and watch Saints, which has had, and will to continue to have longer term benefits over The Dell

When we were at The Dell, the prospect of getting over 30k fans for League 1 matches would have been impossible to imagine

 

I think we would be bottom half Championship, but with little hope of getting promoted

[John B]

We would be ****ed

[JRM]

I think only the traditionalists crave The Dell

 

SMS has enabled more fans to come and watch Saints, which has had, and will to continue to have longer term benefits over The Dell

When we were at The Dell, the prospect of getting over 30k fans for League 1 matches would have been impossible to imagine

 

I think we would be bottom half Championship, but with little hope of getting promoted

 

I would say as a traditionalist i would have been happy with a new stadium if we had gone for one with a bit more character and identity, instead of the IKEA new ground copy of various other dull efforts, but all things considered it is a blessing that we can get crowds of up to 32k, and still generate a top atmosphere in what is a dull "modern" surroundings.

 

hard to say where we would be in the leagues, QPR went up last year getting crowds of 17k in an old ground.

[alehouseboys]

I would say as a traditionalist i would have been happy with a new stadium if we had gone for one with a bit more character and identity, instead of the IKEA new ground copy of various other dull efforts, but all things considered it is a blessing that we can get crowds of up to 32k, and still generate a top atmosphere in what is a dull "modern" surroundings.

 

hard to say where we would be in the leagues, QPR went up last year getting crowds of 17k in an old ground.

 

As have Burnley and Blackpool in recent years. QPR were minted tho'.

 

But I think we'd have struggled to get back up if we had gone down while at the Dell and had it remained at just 15,000.

[Andy_Porter]

Same sort of place as we are now, although I doubt we would have had our little jaunt into league one.

[saintmatt]

sms is one thing lowe does deserve credit for, no question

[Ohio Saint]

sms is one thing lowe does deserve credit for, no question

 

True, but some won't want to hear that.

[Bobbyboy]

We'd be talking about how we desperately need a new stadium so we can get bigger gates in.

[Saints foreva]

We would have probably been a lower Championship side, struggling to bring in new players due to the facilities and moaning about how we need a new stadium to compete.

 

Sometimes I wish Saints had gone for a more unique Stadium as St. Mary's is very boring. There are about 12 similar Stadiums in England, but I guess one thing is that we can create a decent atmosphere when required. Grounds like Coventry etc are mostly silent through-out the season.

[Panda]

Some of you guys are never happy! We desperately needed a new ground and St Mary's was the best we could afford and to be honest I am proud my club plays in such a modern stadium after the pit that we affectionately called 'The Dell'. Be thankful for what you have.

[Big_Bald_Si]

Very good question.

 

Plainly put, we would have gone down from the Premiership eventually. However, our financial plight wouldn't have been as bad as we wouldn't be getting absolutely r@ped on the mortgage (well, not "mortgage", think it some credit note with Aviva/Norwich Union), and we probably wouldn't have gone into administration.

 

However, we wouldn't then have been taken over, and we certainly wouldn't be on the up, like we are now. We'd basically be Doncaster are now, I'd say.

[Joesaint]

sms is one thing lowe does deserve credit for, no question

 

Agree, we would be in the poo if still at the Dell, as good as it was.

[Didcot Saint]

Why moan about SMS, Yes it's a modern Stadium, but it is in my mind bloody smart and something to be proud of. It is certainly miles nicer than Readings, Derby's, Bolton's and quite a few other Stadiums! The Dell was brilliant yes but I have to say SMS is better.

[Dellman]

I loved the Dell from childhood (60 years ago) but if we were still there we would be a joke , bad joke, like the other end of M27

[wild-saint]

We would have probably been a lower Championship side, struggling to bring in new players due to the facilities and moaning about how we need a new stadium to compete.

 

Sometimes I wish Saints had gone for a more unique Stadium as St. Mary's is very boring. There are about 12 similar Stadiums in England, but I guess one thing is that we can create a decent atmosphere when required. Grounds like Coventry etc are mostly silent through-out the season.

 

of course because they are empty most saturday afternoons in comparison to SMS.

[FarehamRed]

If we were at the Dell, we'd have never been relegated from the PL when we were - the bike shed simply would not have allowed it.

We would have been taken over while still in the PL, and a new ground would have been built.

We'd be in the CL by now.

 

Just to provide an alternative point of view ;-)

[Saints foreva]

Why moan about SMS, Yes it's a modern Stadium

 

I just wish we went for something a little more unique as there are far too many types of grounds that look similar to SMS:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very boring.

[Flyer]

i think Saints would still be in the prem, look at the teams with the flatpack soulless bowl stadiums, nearly all of them have either got relegated or stayed in the NPC.

Saints, Derby, Coventry, Boro, Donny, Cardiff, Leicester.

 

Only Swansea have a single tier bowl in the prem and they wont be there next season. When QPR get a new stadium, I hope its a bigger, modern version with legroom. Anyone who went to the dell would have loved a 33k stadium in the same style.

[Dalek2003]

The Dell made Saints a bit of a laughing stock.

Having said that, nobody liked playing there and Fergie described it as his least favourite venue !

The Dell held us back but arguably helped us to survive.

I would say we would still be in the premier league having finished 4th from bottom for the last 10 years !

[VectisSaint]

The Dell made Saints a bit of a laughing stock.

Absolute ******.

[i usually like to post something a bit more thoughtful but that is the only thing I can come up with in response to such twaddle (rhyming slang for Hoddle)]

[Dalek2003]

Absolute ******.

[i usually like to post something a bit more thoughtful but that is the only thing I can come up with in response to such twaddle (rhyming slang for Hoddle)]

 

Sorry to upset you, I've revised my post

 

he Dell made Saints the envy of the premier league.

Having said that, nobody liked playing there and Fergie described it as his least favourite venue !

The Dell held us back but arguably helped us to survive.

I would say we would still be in the premier league having finished 4th from bottom for the last 10 years !

[Fan The Flames]

I don't see why everyone complains about the look of the SMS, the chances are when you a building from scratch, on a unconstrained site and on a very tight budget its going to look the same a other grounds, so what. The cost was a millstone around our necks as it was so a more iconic stadium would have sunk us even sooner. Its no surprise teams with new stadiums go down as the cost stops them competing footballistically. The reason why grounds looked different is they outgrew there original sites and all sorts of shapes appeared.

 

SMS when rocking is fantastic.

 

To answer the OP we would have had a short live uneventful sting in the prem, gone down, bought by a few Russians and the odd Middle Eastern nobody who all promised a fantastic new ground, overspent on players, picked up a lucky FA cup win, gone bust and got away with it whilst still stuck in our dilapidated fleapit.

Edited 8 September, 2011 by Fan The Flames

[Huntingdon]

Why do people say SMS is just like other stadiums?

 

In the 1890's when The Dell was built, I suspect it was very similar to other football stadiums of similar size at that time

[saintmatt]

I think one mistake we made in the move to SMS (which wouldn't have cost us any extra) was not bringing part of The Dell with us, such as the clock. It could have replaced the clock in the Itchen at the moment and would have been a nice, subtle reminder of where we came from. I think Derby did something similar - they built the main entrance to Pride Park out of bricks from the Baseball Ground I think

[JRM]

Why do people say SMS is just like other stadiums?

 

In the 1890's when The Dell was built, I suspect it was very similar to other football stadiums of similar size at that time

 

 

have a watch of this and educate yourself.

 

Highbury > Emirates

Ninian > what ever cardiff's new ground is called

Burnden > Reebok

Baseball Ground > Pride Park

Ayrsome Park > Riverside

Filbert St > Walkers

 

English football has lost part of it's history and with it it's soul with the loss of these grounds to be replaced by souless bowls, not football "grounds" many fans of other clubs who visited The Dell loved it because it was DIFFERENT , it had character, football grounds now are like Barratt homes legoland identikit grounds all built the same, a lot of sterile atmospheres, and football going experience is much the worse for it. stuff the comfy seats, who wants to sit down anyway. if i had a time machine i'd never go to modern football, i'd spend my weekends on the Milton Road terrace.

[JRM]

Why moan about SMS, Yes it's a modern Stadium, but it is in my mind bloody smart and something to be proud of. It is certainly miles nicer than Readings, Derby's, Bolton's and quite a few other Stadiums! The Dell was brilliant yes but I have to say SMS is better.

 

how is st mary's better? other than atmosphere? it doesn't look particularly attractive, the roof is starting to rust, it is just another characterless IKEA ground, just thank God it is near the city centre and not a out of town retail park with a harvester as the nearest pub.

[rshephard3]

I think one mistake we made in the move to SMS (which wouldn't have cost us any extra) was not bringing part of The Dell with us, such as the clock. It could have replaced the clock in the Itchen at the moment and would have been a nice, subtle reminder of where we came from. I think Derby did something similar - they built the main entrance to Pride Park out of bricks from the Baseball Ground I think

 

Remember The Dell was rather small, I'm led to believe the clock there was actually a watch face..

 

On a serious note I have to agree. Would have loved the 'Southampton Football Club' wording from the Dell transferred to SMS.

[Turkish]

 

have a watch of this and educate yourself.

 

Highbury > Emirates

Ninian > what ever cardiff's new ground is called

Burnden > Reebok

Baseball Ground > Pride Park

Ayrsome Park > Riverside

Filbert St > Walkers

 

English football has lost part of it's history and with it it's soul with the loss of these grounds to be replaced by souless bowls, not football "grounds" many fans of other clubs who visited The Dell loved it because it was DIFFERENT , it had character, football grounds now are like Barratt homes legoland identikit grounds all built the same, a lot of sterile atmospheres, and football going experience is much the worse for it. stuff the comfy seats, who wants to sit down anyway. if i had a time machine i'd never go to modern football, i'd spend my weekends on the Milton Road terrace.

 

THat is a great short film mate. I agree with all that you say. I like this piece as well. It's about Man Utd but applies to every club.

 

[revolution saint]

Because of the proximity of the crowd to the pitch The Dell created atmosphere and atmosphere that no modern ground can compete with. If it hadn't been for the Taylor report and all seater stadia then The Dell would never have been that much of a financial impediment either. I guess the best we can say about SMS is that when there is a good atmosphere then it's because of the crowd and not the stadium which really is an identikit soulless bowl. Personally I think we would have got relegated eventually and would be about where we are now, although the future might not be so bright. I can't honestly say that the best games I've seen at SMS come anywhere near the best ones at The Dell though and I still miss it.

[The9]

I just wish we went for something a little more unique as there are far too many types of grounds that look similar to SMS:

 

Very boring.

 

Thing is, Darlington and Doncaster's are half the size, Derby's has one stand bigger than the others and an uneven roof, Middlesbrough's wasn't even an enclosed arena when they built it and had a U with one separate stand originally, and the only one that really looks like St Mary's and is a similar size and shape all round is the King Power/Walkers in Leicester.

 

I don't mind having a ground that looks slightly like some others, no-one complained when Archibald Leitch threw together a bunch of similar looking stands back in the day? There's nothing wrong with St Mary's, it's a great place to watch (and play) football.

 

Fwiw I think we'd have gone down at The Dell too, maybe in 2001/2 under Gray with no way to entice someone like Strachan to the club. But without the debt from the stadium we'd be bouncing around the Championship pretty much as we did anyway, though it's unlikely we'd have gone 10 years without some kind of promotion or relegation...

[Ohio Saint]

I don't understand the disdain for the new stadia. It's the 21st century!

[Flyer]

I don't understand the disdain for the new stadia. It's the 21st century!

 

Its not modern stadiums, its bad modern stadiums.

 

This is the ground I want. A modern stadium in the style of the Dell of Loftus road.

 

http://www.stadiumguide.com/bessa.htm

[Junior Mullet]

Championship / Div 1. We would not have gone into admin and we would still have Rupert and Co.

 

All in all the move has worked out pretty nicely.

[doddisalegend]

Without the new ground we would not have snagged Marcus.End of Saints as we knew them. End of thread.

 

So we'd be playing on Southampton common in the Isthmian League as AFC Southampton about now......

[doddisalegend]

Championship / Div 1. We would not have gone into admin and we would still have Rupert and Co.

 

All in all the move has worked out pretty nicely.

 

It wasn't the staduim that put us into admin though was it? I thought it was a over draft with the bank?

[The9]

It wasn't the staduim that put us into admin though was it? I thought it was a over draft with the bank?

 

It was, but if we didn't have the stadium cost overhead we might have been operating at something near profit and we wouldn't have had that overdraft issue (or necessarily been fielding a team of kids at the bottom of the Championship under an unpopular chairman) - depending of course on whether we were still in the Prem and getting the tv money. 15,000 is a very low ceiling on attendances, but the likes of Wigan are just about coping despite their small crowds.

[The9]

Just to illustrate my point about photofit stadia not all looking alike, here are some other angles on the supposed St Mary's lookalikes.

 

Ok, even when looking at different angles and the layout / roof construction etc I now think Darlington's ground is the MOST similar-looking, but it's only half the size and even that has curved seating (the front seating appears shallower) whereas St Mary's stands are a the same angle all the way down the stand.

 

Here's the much bigger Itchen in comparison :

 

 

The 4-tier main stand at Boro which Saints don't have.

 

The big expanse of roof behind the stand which St Mary's doesn't have - nor any small stands like this.

 

Leicester is again quite similar, but the "banner" around the front of the stand is distinctive, the scoreboards don't hang down as they do at St Mary's and it looks very different to St Mary's from the sky :

compared to St Mary's :

 

Derby has a wonky roof as it has one main stand that's noticeably much bigger than the others and a pile of corporate boxes in the corner.

Edited 9 September, 2011 by The9

[Dr Who?]

I really do think we would have drifted in the same direction as we have, and be up the creek without a paddle. I think we would be struggling in league one a little bit like the Oldhams of the world!! We also wwould not have had any interest in being backed. If we were still at The Dell we would have been left so far behind, in what now would have been around £13k stadium.

 

Lowe did us good with the ground, so fair play to him..... the ****!!

[Dig Dig]

 

have a watch of this and educate yourself.

 

Highbury > Emirates

Ninian > what ever cardiff's new ground is called

Burnden > Reebok

Baseball Ground > Pride Park

Ayrsome Park > Riverside

Filbert St > Walkers

 

English football has lost part of it's history and with it it's soul with the loss of these grounds to be replaced by souless bowls, not football "grounds" many fans of other clubs who visited The Dell loved it because it was DIFFERENT , it had character, football grounds now are like Barratt homes legoland identikit grounds all built the same, a lot of sterile atmospheres, and football going experience is much the worse for it. stuff the comfy seats, who wants to sit down anyway. if i had a time machine i'd never go to modern football, i'd spend my weekends on the Milton Road terrace.

 

How different do you expect a circle with a pitch in the middle to look from one another?

[Super_Uwe]

I think we may possibly have ended up in the lower reaches of the Champ to be honest.

 

If you look at average attendances last year in the Champ, a third were 15k or lower. So whilst we may have struggled to compete financially against the bigger boys, we would still have retained the added benefit of a tight ground that no-one wanted to go to IMO.

 

Personally I think we should be grateful for St Marys. The facilities at The Dell just couldn't keep up with the demands of the 21st century; and whether you like it or not that includes satisfying the corporate customers. Of course it lacks a certain romance and charm, but at the end of the day it is the best compromise that we as Saints fans could ever have hoped for. To suggest otherwise is misguided in my opinion.

 

I also strongly believe that if standing areas were re-introduced as part of an all-ticket system, that would improve people's perceptions of modern stadia as well. Whether that will ever come into fruition is anyone's guess.

[Saintandy666]

And we must thank Lowe for SMS.

[DJ_TOAST]

Prob still in the premier league with teams ****tin themselves having to come to our fortress. We would prob be near the top of the premier by now though.

Miss them days.. sat in the junior saints abusing players/chucking sweets at them while taking a throw in only about a metre away knowing they can hear you and often getting a reaction.

[DJ_TOAST]

And we must thank Lowe for SMS.

 

I wouldnt thank that c*nt for feck all. Don't like to even speak/read/hear of his name.

[Turkish]

And we must thank Lowe for SMS.

 

Why? He got a mortgage, that is all. Dozens of other chairman have done exactly that as well.

[SimonC]

Be grateful for what you have I suppose - SMS is fine, has a good atmosphere. We (AFCB) have had arguments with Oxford over who has the best fence at the open end!

 

Of the new ones, Reading's seemed the best one I have been to.. (said through gritted teeth..). MK Don's might be really good if they add extra seats - they have got the inner concourse 3/4 of the way round.

[up and away]

 

have a watch of this and educate yourself.

 

Highbury > Emirates

Ninian > what ever cardiff's new ground is called

Burnden > Reebok

Baseball Ground > Pride Park

Ayrsome Park > Riverside

Filbert St > Walkers

 

English football has lost part of it's history and with it it's soul with the loss of these grounds to be replaced by souless bowls, not football "grounds" many fans of other clubs who visited The Dell loved it because it was DIFFERENT , it had character, football grounds now are like Barratt homes legoland identikit grounds all built the same, a lot of sterile atmospheres, and football going experience is much the worse for it. stuff the comfy seats, who wants to sit down anyway. if i had a time machine i'd never go to modern football, i'd spend my weekends on the Milton Road terrace.

 

I don't argue that modern grounds have far less character, but there is a good reason for that. Design a stadium that is safe to conform to the latest guidelines in, throw in unimpared vision from all angles and you gravitate to the format we see for most grounds. Then go back and relive some of the experiences at the Dell and there is just no contest. Your view is not restricted by pillars, other fans or a roof if lucky. Stairs and aisles that funnel you into a compression point that those under 9 stone can travel effectively with both feet off the ground. Trying to get access for food was never an option for all fans and using the toilets was an exercise in patience that most would decline on health grounds. As romantic as it may be to some, give me St Mary's any day.