Come on our Gareth

[hasper57saint]

Just like to ask. How many 'Championship' players are in the England squad? Week in week out we get the 'Prem' rammed down our throats and I am NOT in the slightest bit interested. With the 'Prem posers' regularly picked to play for England I get exactly the same feeling. If the FA had any balls at all they would withdraw from FIFA and England could play friendlies with some respect and a lot of support.

[Turkish]

Just like to ask. How many 'Championship' players are in the England squad? Week in week out we get the 'Prem' rammed down our throats and I am NOT in the slightest bit interested. With the 'Prem posers' regularly picked to play for England I get exactly the same feeling. If the FA had any balls at all they would withdraw from FIFA and England could play friendlies with some respect and a lot of support.

 

There is nothing in football that annoys me more than all the "premier league" talk. Sky is full of it, "since the premier league began" "xxxx amount of premier league titles" "the premier league years" programmes. WTF happened before 1991? It's like football didn't exist back then and was invented by Sky.

[Dig Dig]

I think you'll find the dynamic in German football is completely different and that yes, the young players are definitely more down-to-earth.

 

Definitely more down to earth? I know you border the country but there is no way you can know that. The younger players for England certainly come across as more down to earth then the senior pro's but this doesn't last long.

 

Other successful nations are full of ridiculously paid players who are as cocky and arrogant as the rest. The key difference just simply comes down to technical ability, skill and bottle. We seemed to have only just clicked that the good old English way of pace, power and heart are simply not good enough at this level. Keeping the ball, dictating the pace of the game and staying in control are all key at International stage and we finally look like we are building towards this, it will just take time.

 

I also honestly don't believe that playing for England is a partculary enjoyable experience and neither is the manager role. We have such a fickle mentality when it comes to England which is driven by the media that eventually, no matter who you are or what you've done previously, you'll be hounded out. If there is one job which could make any manager look like a complete ****, it's the England job.

[Windmill Arm 2]

If you hate England so much why don't you **** off and live somewhere else?

LOL !!!!!

 

 

DIME BAR!!!!

 

I can see where Alpine is coming from, but im English so I have to support the overpaid overhyped w@nkfest.

[Wes Tender]

Definitely more down to earth? I know you border the country but there is no way you can know that.

Why ever not? As Alpine has lived in Austria for several years as far as I know, I'm assuming that he will have a good grasp of the German language and would therefore read articles in the newspapers and magazines and watch programmes on the box about the German team. As we have based our opinions on what we have read or seen in the media about the England players, why shouldn't Alpine have equal access to that sort of information about German players living in Austria.

[COMEONYOUREDS]

I'm with Alpine. Don't care about England or International Football. It's a boring waste of time

[Dig Dig]

Why ever not? As Alpine has lived in Austria for several years as far as I know, I'm assuming that he will have a good grasp of the German language and would therefore read articles in the newspapers and magazines and watch programmes on the box about the German team. As we have based our opinions on what we have read or seen in the media about the England players, why shouldn't Alpine have equal access to that sort of information about German players living in Austria.

 

There is no way of knowing either way based on what you hear and read. If Alpine can make this assumption about the German youngsters why can't the same logic be applied to the likes of Wiltshire, Walcott, Young, Smalling, Jones etc. Or are they just a bunch of overrated egotistical ******s as well?

[sambosa75]

I'll watch tonight but I'm totally indifferent. If England lose it does not affect my mood at all. The only time it did was when we failed to qualify for the last championships and if anything, I enjoyed the finals more than I would have had England qualified.

[The9]

Would absolutely love it if the biannual Brand England shirt-selling w*nk fest for the likes of Lampard, Terry, Ferdinand, Shrek and their numpty Italian boss comes off the rails thanks to a lad who learnt his trade playing for Saints.

 

I'm from Monmouthshire, which has been part of both England and Wales in the last century or so, and a Saints ST holder, and frankly I couldn't give a toss who wins, or about international football generally.

 

As for "come on Bale" over "come on Theo", what's the difference ?

[CitySaint]

No interest in watching England or the international team as a whole. Not going to cheer the Welsh on because of this though, will just avoid and gear up for the Saints game on Saturday.

[scott_saints]

We should bring all the kids through ffs!! Stop playing Lampard and Rooney!!!

 

.............Then we can decide who we hate out of the kids when they get older and become first teamers.

[The9]

I think you'll find the dynamic in German football is completely different and that yes, the young players are definitely more down-to-earth.

 

There's a quote in the current FourFourTwo to that effect from, I think, Dortmund's head coach (Klopp?) - with them having won the Bundesliga with a team of kids last season. He basically said "they're more grounded and not that interested in money" in so many words.

 

I think the current German set up and depth of young talent looks like they'll dominate for the next 10 years, once Spain have peaked anyway. Their current crop of "kids" stuffed England in 2010, their U21s stuffed England the year before, and their champions are all young players too, once they get a bit of experience they'll be unstoppable, and they've already qualified for Euro 2012.

 

[ibizasaint]

I dont really get it..... I am from Southampton and England, so i support them both...

[Pancake]

What the buggery **** does this have to do with Saints?

[Wes Tender]

There is no way of knowing either way based on what you hear and read. If Alpine can make this assumption about the German youngsters why can't the same logic be applied to the likes of Wiltshire, Walcott, Young, Smalling, Jones etc. Or are they just a bunch of overrated egotistical ******s as well?

 

Was the debate about the youngsters of either team? I must have misunderstood. I thought that it was about the more senior tossers like Terry, Rooney, Lampard, Cole, etc. Somebody suggested that the German team would probably have equivalents and you wondered how Alpine would know whether this was so or not. I'm presuming that the German or Austrian press comprises a similar type of journo who would readily print the sort of lurid stories that they have about the England players over here, so that accepted, Alpine is likely to have been able to hear about it and pass comment on it.

[Deanovski]

Why ? I so little give a f*ck for England that I feel more affinitiy for a young player who hasnt played for us for more than 3 years.

 

feel exactly the same tbh.

[Paul Chuckle]

'Our Gareth'??????

 

 

Your now quoting Cilla Black lines 'our Graham'

 

Weirdo

[saint-crinny]

Such a bizarre thread.

 

If you think the England team are overpaid and arrogant - yes they are. But with some exceptions, that is a trait that can be levelled at pretty much every player in the top two divisions, and the majority of L1 and L2 players as well. Having worked at a non-league club, i can tell you there are some impressively arrogant players there too.

That is the current state of English football - too much money for some of the stuppidest people in the country is a recipe for disaster, as we regularly see in the press.

 

Does the OP think its a problem exclusive to England? Are there many more overpaid, hateable players out there than Bellamy, for example. And do we honestly think that if you saw Bale (great that he is a Saints product and i enjoy seeing him doing well) on a night out, he wouldnt come across as arrogant too?

 

I just accept that footballers have too much money, are arrogant and easy to dislike, and then get on with loving football, dspite the 'state' of the game.

 

I was in SA last year, spent a lot of money to go there only to have the likes of Rooney mouthing-off about the England fans booing as they were held to a 0-0 againts a bunch of part-timers. I was absolutely furious, as pretty much every football fan in the country was i'm sure.

 

But, England is still my country, and i'm a football fan, so i back them against anyone. I'm not a fan of stupid, overblown patriotism either, but when it comes to England playing, if you're English, why would you want them to lose? Won't happen, but if England win the Euros next year, I wont be sat at home sulking while the majority of the country celebrates, just because i dont want to be Wayne Rooney's best mate.

 

Oh, and losing to Wales, Bale-inspired or othewise, would literally be unbearable, especially from my Welsh mate.

[Dig Dig]

Was the debate about the youngsters of either team? I must have misunderstood. I thought that it was about the more senior tossers like Terry, Rooney, Lampard, Cole, etc. Somebody suggested that the German team would probably have equivalents and you wondered how Alpine would know whether this was so or not. I'm presuming that the German or Austrian press comprises a similar type of journo who would readily print the sort of lurid stories that they have about the England players over here, so that accepted, Alpine is likely to have been able to hear about it and pass comment on it.

 

Yes I suggested that all successful nations probably have equivalents to which Alpine replied saying that the German football dynamic is different and that the young players within the German team are level headed and grounded.

 

My point is that ego's and money don't really have anything to do with it. It's always the thing which people come up with to satisfy their need to whinge. Ultimately, we are not yet technically good enough hence decades of nothing to show for our efforts. If people expected less and if we didn't have a press sniffing for blood then I'm sure everyone would enjoy the England experience a bit more.

 

If the current England players had actually won the World Cup I wonder if people would still moan about the ego's in the team. My guess is no but they would still be the same people....just better players (which unfortunately they arn't)

[Jez]

So would you feel different had we won the WC in 2010?

 

I was thinking similar, but thinking would Alpine the weirdo watch it, or celebrate, if England got to the final and then won EM2012? (as he calls it)

Or would you sit at home Alpine, and watch the Swiss equivalent of channel 4 and watch some DIY program instead whilst England were playing in the final?

[Fan The Flames]

England is followed by mongs, I have been to Wembley recently and it's the most sh#t football experience ever. No surrender, ten german bombers etc Sports Direct apparel a must, sh#t songs, poor atmosphere. The only saving grace was the players but I couldn't give a **** about them anymore. So I couldn't care less if England win or lose, in fact I would rather they lose to force some changes.

[shurlock]

Can't stand the England football team -can't stand the Sky-induced hype that trails every twitch of its bowels; can't stand the predictable jingoism, the plastics that crawl out of the woodwork during major tournaments that give the toffs on Henman Hill or Murray Mount a run for their money in the gimp stakes; can't stand the cynicism of players kissing the badge yet bottling a challenge in case it risks their club careers and next season's FIFA or ProEvo endorsement (at least, Scholes was honest). Amusing to watch the team with egg on its face and the exercise of collective self-flagellation which this country needlessly specialises in.

 

Still the taffs are the taffs...

Edited 6 September, 2011 by shurlock

[Dig Dig]

Adrian, you're right we should be beating the likes of the USA, Algeria etc. The last WC for so disatrous that there are probably a combination of factors which led to that absolute train wreck. But last WC a side, QF's seemed to be where our short comings were exposed and I do believe this is because of the traditional English style of play....get your self fired up, run your heart out, be physical and strong etc. There has never been much emphasis on keeping the ball, being comfortbale in possesion, controlling the game. These attributes seem to be what seperates us from the very best.

 

Do you geuniunly believe that the current crop of England players have the technical skill to play like Spain for example? I don't.

 

You use performances in the Prem and Champions League as a way of proving that the English lads do have the necessary skill to win things. As a geniune question, how successful would these players have been at club level had it not been for their foreign counterparts and coaches? Of course it's impossible to say for sure but imo I bet their trophy cabinets would be looking a little emptier.

 

There are a whole host of reasons why other nations don't perform aside from having technical ability. Argentina as the example you use, do I think they are not technically good enough? They probably are but the managerial round a bout and instability within the FA along with being top heavy on attackers but not so well equiped at the back probably don't help their cause.

 

I'm not saying that I'm right and there are probably a whole host of other factors which has led to years of dissapointment. But the whole overpaid ego argument just doesn't stack up for me. It's just a default argument which can be either put forward or ignored depending on circumstance.

[PhilippineSaint]

Or would you sit at home Alpine, and watch the Swiss equivalent of channel 4 and watch some DIY program instead whilst England were playing in the final?

 

Like How to build a dungeon cellar without the wife knowing

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

I admit to not knowing the current crop of German players but in the past they've had more than their fair share of arrogant egotists: Lehman, Kahn, Ballack, Effenberg - just four of their big names from the last 20 years. Oh, forgot Podolski. Performs well in the tournaments for the national team but has a terrible reputation as a professional in club football.

[The9]

Adrian, you're right we should be beating the likes of the USA, Algeria etc.

 

What are the criteria for assuming that though ?

 

Nation size ?

Population ?

Number of football coaches ?

Number of professional players ?

Number of amateur teams ?

Grass roots coaching faciliites ?

"Passion" ?

Having pride in representing their nation ?

Truly understanding what success means to the nation as motivation ?

Players not living a privileged lifestyle and looking like they're bothered about winning ALL of the time ?

Players not treating their position in the team as a right ?

Tactical understanding ?

Overconfidence ?

Players understanding they're not automatically the best because of where you were born ?

Not having a hundred other ways of passing the time as a kid ?

Having the drive to drag yourself from the gutter ?

Having the drive to give back to your community ?

Realising that the game has moved on from the 1890s, the 1930s and that even in 1966 things weren't that great ?

 

There are a myriad of ways other countries are able to beat England.

[Greenridge]

What are the criteria for assuming that though ?

 

 

FIFA World rankings would suggest it's a valid statement

[warsash saint]

Never felt the same about England ever since the way Hoddle treated MLT.

[The9]

FIFA World rankings would suggest it's a valid statement

 

The FIFA World Rankings are mocked worldwide for their failure to address the ridiculous disparity in the rankings of teams on different continents due to the lack of intercontinental competitive matches, so in effect, if Mexico get a good World Cup draw, beat a couple of low ranking European sides in the early stages and bomb out to an Asian side in the Round of 16, in the next few years UEFA teams can get a shedload of points more than they should for beating CONCACAF and AFC representatives, because the World Cup results indicate European teams "aren't as good". That's a simplification, but it shows the problem.

 

They're not such a bad measure of teams in the same confederation, but there's no better judge than a competitive head to head match in the World Cup (other than third group game dead rubbers) and that puts England (2010) on a par with both.

[JustMike]

Agree with most on here ... Weirdo

[The9]

None of that no, I was basing it purely on the pool of available players.

 

I'm not saying 'we should always beat these countries'. I'm saying our available players in 2010 were of a far higher overall standard than the pools of players available to USA, Slovenia and Algeria.

 

USA aren't bad, but they don't have near the talent. They're an example of a good team ethic though, they work hard and are difficult to beat. They probably do as well as they could hope for in tournament and leave fairly proud.

 

Any lesser team can win on their day, like switzerland-spain or greece winning a tournament. So the occasional mess up by England wouldn't bother me if we meet a team on top of their game, fighting hard etc. But it happened far too often and as stated above, we really brought it on ourselves. Algeria did superbly well against us, but it took very poor management from england and huge underperformance, as well as a good game from algeria.

 

All the criteria you say are quite valid over a longer timeframe, but at the end of the day your pool of players, quality, grass roots facilities and so on become irrelevant if you're going to send a mishapen, unfit, unmotivated team out there with injured players and obvious problems.

 

Fair enough, but if you don't actually have the quality in the first place, you can't really complain that they're underachieving - and I think the effect of the 8 or 9 top-class foreigners usually around the minority Englishmen in the CL is usually understated when discussing their pedigrees and experience.

[alpine_saint]

Never felt the same about England ever since the way Hoddle treated MLT.

 

Yes, I used to sob about England failures at the WC. I remember laughing my titties off when Batty (yes, DAVID BATTY) missed his peno against the Argies.

[shurlock]

86 and 90 were the last true great WCs - Euro Championships have never come close.

[Smirking_Saint]

I think Lampard is still a useful squad player. Problem is, bar McLaren messing up, England have been good at qualifying. Capello has an easy group again so finding 'form' and success in these games isn't hard. I think he'll bottle it and make the same mistakes again come tournament time. We have loads of good young players, but no obvious team, tactics etc, it doesn't pick itself and he'll still bow to reputation and experience come June.

 

We had plenty of young talent and in form players in 2010 too, but they were ignored in favour of tired old, out of form players, injured players and people out of position. Yet the media tell us it's grassroots football problems, we're not good enough etc. We win the u17 championship, produce countless good players, see technique of young players increase year after year with the likes of Rooney, Young, Walcott, Wilshere, Rodwell, Cleverley, Welbeck, Jones and countless others, including our own Lallana. None of that matters when you bottle it and pick Carragher when the world knows he'll get outpaced and suspended. When you pick King when the world knows he won't last a game. When you pick Green knowing he'll make an error. When you pick an unfit Rooney and Barry, when you try to put slow former greats like Scholes and Beckham in the midfield. After all the chance to develop a team and learn, in 2010 if he'd had his way, Capello would have picked Scholes/Gerrard/Lampard/Beckham as his midfield. Old, slow, out of position and with partnerships we've known don't work for a decade. We can win every game now but I don't yet believe he won't do exactly the same again.

 

I think Terry should be consigned to the scrapheap too. Not just because I don't like him, his form for Chelsea the last 2 seasons has been nothing like the years before. He was caught out in the world cup too, poor positioning and no pace left. I'm not sure he ever fully recovered from that penalty miss to be honest. Ferdinand still has plenty to offer so that's enough experience back there surely? We have plenty of good CB options with Jones, Cahill and Jagielka, surely that's a good 4? Still, Smalling, Dawson and a few others too.

 

We have plenty of good wide players now and coming through. Young surely has to start every time. Downing is much improved and versatile Walcott is getting better IMO and then there's Sturridge, Welbeck, Adam Johnson, maybe even Chamberlain soon. Two either side of Rooney makes a good front line, rather than trying to pick from a list of average strikers. Welbeck and Bent are fine as proper strikers, but I think the days of Crouch and Defoe are gone, they haven't done it for ages in the league, and IMO, Andy Carroll just isn't good enough...yet. Who knows if he ever will be. Not a bad squad option though but with 4 strikers I'd go Rooney/Bent/Sturridge/Welbeck right now. Carroll after that.

 

Overall I think we've got a great pool of players, but I think we have done for a while. It just needs a good motivated manager to come in and make the team his own. It'll take time, but with those players there is time. I'd just like to see steady improvement over 5 or 6 years. No-one can expect to win a tournament, there's a lot of luck and Spain are ahead of everyone, but we can be in the top 5 or 6 teams. I'll be happy to just see them go to a tournament and end it with no regrets, being beaten by a better team and knowing they played as well as possible. Not the endless lacklustre underperforming, disinterested predictable garbage.

 

I agree with pretty much everything you say.

 

Except for Lampard, he is so used to having a team built around him in the Chelsea set up that he just has not the discapline to play in a proper midfield role, he would be brilliant playing just behind the front man but thats just not how we play. Besides, Gerrard was always the more talented of the two and far too often the man in charge tried a failed attempt to fit them both in rather then go with arguably our most talented midfielder of his generation (bar Scholes).

 

But yes, after the WC debarcle I was one who shouted out the fact we needed to go down the european root and turf all of those that would IMO be too old for the next WC and allow a new young team to have the EC as a bedding in period.

[NickG]

Alternatively the player who had about dozen good games before his form dropped when decided he wanted to leave then did so, has a nightmare

Would absolutely love it if the biannual Brand England shirt-selling w*nk fest for the likes of Lampard, Terry, Ferdinand, Shrek and their numpty Italian boss comes off the rails thanks to a lad who learnt his trade playing for Saints.

[slickmick]

Can't stand the England football team -can't stand the Sky-induced hype that trails every twitch of its bowels; can't stand the predictable jingoism, the plastics that crawl out of the woodwork during major tournaments that give the toffs on Henman Hill or Murray Mount a run for their money in the gimp stakes; can't stand the cynicism of players kissing the badge yet bottling a challenge in case it risks their club careers and next season's FIFA or ProEvo endorsement (at least, Scholes was honest). Amusing to watch the team with egg on its face and the exercise of collective self-flagellation which this country needlessly specialises in.

 

Still the taffs are the taffs...

 

Seconded. Will never subscribe to sky. Lampard,Gerrard, Terry and Rio ect, have all proven, that they never have and never will be good enough to win major honours at International level. Yet the arogant t0ssers believe in their own hype.

[hamster]

Wales, being a Primcipality, has a Prince.

 

Spain, being a Kingdom, has a King.

 

England, being a Country, has John Terry.

[Scoobysaint]

I agree with Alpine. I have long lost interest in the English football team. Not through a lack of patriotism as I am a keen fan of the rugby team and cricket team. I think I am just fed up with Capello being boss and his dire brand of football. My interest started to wain once Sven got the job. The football is dull, the players are not fussed, disrespectful and generally poor role models and I can't wait for the rugby world cup to start.

[alpine_saint]

Here you go. That stupid Italian numpty changed a winning team and went back to playing that tw*tty graduate of the John Barnes School for Unacheiving for England, Frank Lampard, probably to help fulfill the FAs marketing quota for replica shirt sales.

 

Thats why I cannot support the England team.

[Um Bongo]

They still won.

[alpine_saint]

They still won.

 

With an utterly sh*te performance compared to Friday, by all accounts.

[scott_saints]

Football fans are happy when their club team wins after a s**t performance. Why not their international team? Just because they are paid more? It's not their fault they get paid so much.

 

Anyway, good to see Lampard is the new scapegoat of the "Play a team of kids ffs" brigade, that come out in force after every world cup/euro's.

[NickG]

alps is just as bitter in his support of England as saints!

[astrasri]

Wales, being a Primcipality, has a Prince.

 

Spain, being a Kingdom, has a King.

 

England, being a Country, has John Terry.

 

 

If this is your original work, may I have your permission to spread message this far across the land - as in texting all my mates...brilliant!

[opthomps]

Why not? I'm not saying that I would support another team against England, but take this to a lesser degree and equate it to an English club team playing in the European Champions League. Should we support the English club, or is that weird if we do not? Because for myself, if it is Manchester United playing anybody else, I am always cheering on the other team. Naturally, I would draw the line if they were playing the Skates, but it then I would end up supporting neither team.

 

Totally agree. I have no affinity to other clubs. foreigners find it mystifying that i dont like any prem team at all. I was putting this into an international context, to which being born in england means I will support them against any other country, no matter what. Club football is different, obviously man u and pompey are 2 great examples of this

[Hamilton Saint]

The thread title would be less disconcerting if it was properly punctuated: Come on, our Gareth.

[Hamilton Saint]

I agree with Alpine. I have long lost interest in the English football team. Not through a lack of patriotism as I am a keen fan of the rugby team and cricket team. I think I am just fed up with Capello being boss and his dire brand of football. My interest started to wain once Sven got the job. The football is dull, the players are not fussed, disrespectful and generally poor role models and I can't wait for the rugby world cup to start.

 

You'll be happier when Redknapp takes over, right?

[skintsaint]

With an utterly sh*te performance compared to Friday, by all accounts.

 

TBH I dont care as long as we win. Hate playing well and not getting a result. Its all about the winning.

[CanadaSaint]

The thread title would be less disconcerting if it was properly punctuated: Come on, our Gareth.

 

Perhaps it was a Freudian slip.

[JustMike]

alps is just as bitter in his support of England as saints!

 

Yep, and seeing as saints are doing well, he turns his attentions to the internationals