Police response to Millwall disorder

[brmbrm]

What a load of ******.

 

"To apply this restriction, there has to be a legal base, a reasoned justification to apply that hold-back, based on the assessed likelihood of disorder between fans."

 

They don't need any legal base when kettling thousands of peaceful demonstrators for hours and hours. Just get the riot gear on, get the batons out and they do what the f*&^ they like.

[Ken Tone]

Pedant alert: I wonder if he had to look up the word vomitary? If so he should have checked the spelling.

 

I'd have thought that the fact he spelled 'vomitory' incorrectly actually indicated he didn't look it up. It's a standard word in crowd control and emergency exit routes from large buildings that he will use regularly.

 

More significantly I thought the expanation he gave was well-reasoned and sensible, even if IMO they did get it wrong on this occasion. I'm old enough to rember the routine corralling of away fans to and from grounds, never mind inside, and frquent OTT use of force, police horses etc ... it caused trouble.

[Toomer]

IMO it's a bit of a cop out, when we scored and they went over the black net to try and get to the home supporters did someone not think hello we could have a problem with this lot after the game.

[up and away]

A very thought provoking response from the OB, well argued and reasoned and he explained succinctly the pressures they are under having to consider peoples' rights and their obligations. I had previously formed the opinion that after the fracas following our goal, that they were negligent in not taking steps to contain the Millwall fans after the match, but in the light of what he has said, I'm persuaded that they are between a rock and a hard place over situations like this.

 

 

This just does not hold up. The over riding factor in any situation such as this is safety, Millwall and Saints fans. Hold back minimises this risk and human rights automatically defer to safety. It's not as if this will come as a surprise to Millwall fans or any other club visiting Millwall. It's made to appear like the Police are between a rock and a hard place, but that is not the case, safety is paramount. What is more likely is that they were not prepared for the use of hold back at a late stage and the best option remaining open was to use the Northam car park. This is poor decision making by the Officer in charge and trying to imply that hold back represents far greater safety issues to his officers shows a distinct lack of planning or resources to do the job properly.

[saintjay77]

It was mentioned in the email. They had no intelligence for Millwall, They probably had intelligence for Crewe.

 

It was also mentioned how holding back fans was more of a blanket response which is now more of an exception. 2006 they were still doing it as a standard act but 2011 politics gets in the way of a more ruthless approach. The police are not alloud to suit up in riot gear and run in battering anyone in a footy shirt anymore as they get sued for breaching something or other.

 

Times have changed and in a way they could be asking for something serious to happen due to the namby pamby approach. Public will either chill out and the majority of fans who dont want trouble will weed out the minority that do, or the minority will take advantage of slack policing and build things back up to like they used to be. I would rather the former TBH.

[stevegrant]

It is neither fair nor legal to impose restrictions of movement on what is a majority of football supporters just based on reputation or history.

Never stopped them before. I can remember countless occasions of big groups of Saints fans being rounded up at Waterloo station and dumped in the Hole in the Wall for the afternoon and then escorted across London to whichever ground we're playing at.

[Wes Tender]

This just does not hold up. The over riding factor in any situation such as this is safety, Millwall and Saints fans. Hold back minimises this risk and human rights automatically defer to safety. It's not as if this will come as a surprise to Millwall fans or any other club visiting Millwall. It's made to appear like the Police are between a rock and a hard place, but that is not the case, safety is paramount. What is more likely is that they were not prepared for the use of hold back at a late stage and the best option remaining open was to use the Northam car park. This is poor decision making by the Officer in charge and trying to imply that hold back represents far greater safety issues to his officers shows a distinct lack of planning or resources to do the job properly.

 

Well, as Mehball says in the post below yours, things have changed with politics holding more sway than before, the rights of the individual, studies having been made as to the psychology of these situations all being factors that have to be taken into consideration. The main aspect that surprised me though, was that as a Northam stand ST holder, I have become used to having access to Britannia Road denied to me after certain matches, whereas for Millwall I'd expected it to be a nailed on certainty and it wasn't.

 

But at least it was good to see such a detailed response from the Officer in charge, which gives us a much greater understanding of the factors involved in their decision-making. As others have already commented, he would be wrong in the eyes of a faction of supporters whichever way he turned.

[saintjay77]

Never stopped them before. I can remember countless occasions of big groups of Saints fans being rounded up at Waterloo station and dumped in the Hole in the Wall for the afternoon and then escorted across London to whichever ground we're playing at.

 

Question is when did they stop doing this on a regular basis? If they still do it then their argument doesnt hold up as well but can our home ground be compared to london grounds? Weekends in London see's many sets of fans moving around so the chances of situations between groups must be higher than somewhere that there is likley to be only 2 sets of large scale fans.

 

Last year it seems the approach to let everyone out at the same time was adopted, or at least noticed more. Was that a nationwide thing?

[Puddings and Monkeys]

IMO it's a bit of a cop out, when we scored and they went over the black net to try and get to the home supporters did someone not think hello we could have a problem with this lot after the game.

 

Especially when added to the fact that their "risk group" and our "risk group" were walking round town most of the afternoon trying to find each other........all with a large police presence around them both.

[Fan The Flames]

.... safety is paramount.

 

Thankfully it isn't safety at all costs. Otherwise the national speed limit would be 25mph and pubs would be banned. Holding back is wrong and peoe going to football matches should man up a bit and get over a bit of shouting and shoving. Afterall how many innocent people get hurt, none. So how about a bit of individual responsibility and stop wanting the state to provide everything for us.

[The9]

What an excellent and comprehensive response to the matter from the Match Commander.

[The9]

This just does not hold up. The over riding factor in any situation such as this is safety, Millwall and Saints fans. Hold back minimises this risk and human rights automatically defer to safety. It's not as if this will come as a surprise to Millwall fans or any other club visiting Millwall. It's made to appear like the Police are between a rock and a hard place, but that is not the case, safety is paramount. What is more likely is that they were not prepared for the use of hold back at a late stage and the best option remaining open was to use the Northam car park. This is poor decision making by the Officer in charge and trying to imply that hold back represents far greater safety issues to his officers shows a distinct lack of planning or resources to do the job properly.

 

The response says quite clearly that the hold back itself was not regarded as the safest option, you're not in any position to be questioning that.

 

I'm not sure what the definition of being between a rock and a hard place is if not given the choice between keeping Millwall fans from causing problems when released along with the home fans, or trying to placate defeated Millwall fans being held behind against their collective will.

[TheMidfieldGeneral]

The biggest load of cocksnot I've ever read..

I wonder whose idea it was to hold us back until half time of the Pompey game away after we were at Soton station at 10am

 

The match commander and his toadying cronies are bullying arseholes of the highest order.

[lil 1]

The biggest load of cocksnot I've ever read..

I wonder whose idea it was to hold us back until half time of the Pompey game away after we were at Soton station at 10am

 

The match commander and his toadying cronies are bullying arseholes of the highest order.

 

well said sir

[Barry the Badger]

The biggest load of cocksnot I've ever read..

I wonder whose idea it was to hold us back until half time of the Pompey game away after we were at Soton station at 10am

 

The match commander and his toadying cronies are bullying arseholes of the highest order.

 

and therein lies the problem.

 

Police take strong action to avoid trouble, police critisised.

[JRM]

The biggest load of cocksnot I've ever read..

I wonder whose idea it was to hold us back until half time of the Pompey game away after we were at Soton station at 10am

 

The match commander and his toadying cronies are bullying arseholes of the highest order.

 

well said, it is complete and utter rubbish, they know exactly what they are doing. Back in May 2010 they rejoiced at the news southampton had appointed a nationally funded "banning order officer" to specifically target giving bans to "risk" supporters, they have to do something to keep this chaps figures up, can't have a lack of banning orders or incidents to make it look like he is no longer needed......

[Turkish]

It was mentioned in the email. They had no intelligence for Millwall, They probably had intelligence for Crewe.

 

I am assuming this is a joke. There were 100+ Millwall "lads" in the Angel, many of them known and have been on bans in the past and the pub surrounded by old bill watching them closely. During the game Millwall attempt at kicking off inside the ground. What more f*cking intellegence do you need than an actual incident almost happening inside the ground??!!

 

As has already been mentioned, they've got a full time banning officer now so he needs to be busy, a few bans for this one, make sure their funding is in place and their pal is kept busy. Not forgetting the big news article if and when a few do get banned with grand statements about this sort of behaviour not being tolerated.

 

It's a f*cking joke. The whole thing about not keeping fans in as an infringement of civil liverties is a lot of shi*e. Since when has it stopped them stopping and searching people on the way to football? I've even had people i know lied to by the police about incidents that had happened just so they could take their details down. They have also shafted people in court with made up evidence to try to push bans through. The way Hampshire Old Bill are behaving towards football fans is a f*cking disgrace.

Edited 6 September, 2011 by Turkish

[70's Mike]

I am assuming this is a joke. There were 100+ Millwall "lads" in the Angel, many of them known and have been on bans in the past and the pub surrounded by old bill watching them closely. During the game Millwall attempt at kicking off inside the ground. What more f*cking intellegence do you need than an actual incident almost happening inside the ground??!!

 

As has already been mentioned, they've got a full time banning officer now so he needs to be busy, a few bans for this one, make sure their funding is in place and their pal is kept busy. Not forgetting the big news article if and when a few do get banned with grand statements about this sort of behaviour not being tolerated.

 

It's a f*cking joke. The whole thing about not keeping fans in as an infringement of civil liverties is a lot of shi*e. Since when has it stopped them stopping and searching people on the way to football? I've even had people i know lied to by the police about incidents that had happened just so they could take their details down. They have also shafted people in court with made up evidence to try to push bans through. The way Hampshire Old Bill are behaving towards football fans is a f*cking disgrace.

 

Agreed except it is not Hampshire Old Bill but Southampton, we get locked in at Fratton all 2000 of us , Skates all 3200 let out at the same time.

Sorry but his reply is hot air lets hope their "intelligence" is up to date when Brum,Cardiff and West Ham visit

[The Kraken]

The lack of intelligence on the day, I don't buy that, especially as there was the scuffle with the barrier inside the ground.

 

How can there not be intelligence from previous years though? I remember 3 or 4 years back hearing stories of a group of Millwall walking through West Quay and the precinct giving random people a slap. P*ss poor decision, no doubt.

[John B]

I am assuming this is a joke. There were 100+ Millwall "lads" in the Angel, many of them known and have been on bans in the past and the pub surrounded by old bill watching them closely. During the game Millwall attempt at kicking off inside the ground. What more f*cking intellegence do you need than an actual incident almost happening inside the ground??!!

 

As has already been mentioned, they've got a full time banning officer now so he needs to be busy, a few bans for this one, make sure their funding is in place and their pal is kept busy. Not forgetting the big news article if and when a few do get banned with grand statements about this sort of behaviour not being tolerated.

 

It's a f*cking joke. The whole thing about not keeping fans in as an infringement of civil liverties is a lot of shi*e. Since when has it stopped them stopping and searching people on the way to football? I've even had people i know lied to by the police about incidents that had happened just so they could take their details down. They have also shafted people in court with made up evidence to try to push bans through. The way Hampshire Old Bill are behaving towards football fans is a f*cking disgrace.

 

Not such as a disgrace as a few of allegded Saints Fans

[Turkish]

Not such as a disgrace as a few of allegded Saints Fans

 

Really? I thought it was the polices job to prevent disorder and to protect the public, not to get as many people banned from football as possible and if they have to lie, screw people over and make stuff up on the way it so be it.

[Turkish]

The lack of intelligence on the day, I don't buy that, especially as there was the scuffle with the barrier inside the ground.

 

How can there not be intelligence from previous years though? I remember 3 or 4 years back hearing stories of a group of Millwall walking through West Quay and the precinct giving random people a slap. P*ss poor decision, no doubt.

 

It's an excuse. Just like after the Pompey game. Last time Millwall came down there was trouble up town. This time there were large numbers of Millwall lads in town all day, at one point a pub full of them was surrounded by police. There was an incident inside the ground. I really dont understand what further "intellegence" is needed.

[The Kraken]

Really? I thought it was the polices job to prevent disorder and to protect the public, not to get as many people banned from football as possible and if they have to lie, screw people over and make stuff up on the way it so be it.

 

As much as it was a policing cock up, there's absolutely no condoning a Saints fan repetitively spitting at Millwall fans from the safety of a police corden. You deserve a slap for that.

[Turkish]

As much as it was a policing cock up, there's absolutely no condoning a Saints fan repetitively spitting at Millwall fans from the safety of a police corden. You deserve a slap for that.

 

Well indeed, pretty vile, If this did happen, it's the first mention of it anywhere.

[The Kraken]

Well indeed, pretty vile, If this did happen, it's the first mention of it anywhere.

 

It's in the police report at the top of this thread.

[Turkish]

It's in the police report at the top of this thread.

 

That's what i meant. This report is the first mention of it anywhere. No mention of it in any newspaper, the echo reported that one of their journalist was caught up in the middle of it surely he'd have seen these Saints fans spitting at Millwall, no mention on any internet forum, you tube doesnt show it etc etc.

 

But then It's easier and looks better on them to blame it on Saints fan sparking it off rather than admit they let Millwall out and they started it.

[The Kraken]

The simple response is "why did you let the away fans out and allow such a general melee to be created in the first place?" but we're going round in circles with that one and we all know it was the wrong decision by the police. Shame they can't admit it, you get the feeling this type of nonsense will just keep on happening.

[Legod Third Coming]

I respect the Police and the job they do, but like some others feel that their standards have slipped over the past decade and that's probably due to my perception that too many of them are driving about in BMWs persecuting motorists.

 

But I take issue with why the the public shouldn't expect higher standards of perfection from them than would be the case in their own lives. Why ever not? It is their job. It's what they are trained for, it's what they do, preserve and uphold law and order. The policing of football matches is all part of the job description, just as demonstrations, pop concerts and other large public gatherings are. Again, they are trained in this work and those officers who do not know how to react properly under scenes of stress and provocation should not be assigned to that work.

 

Just a few observations; I've not generally got it in for them and still feel that our Police are amongst the best. I've experienced other police forces around the World where bribery and corruption is rife and thank God ours are generally honest.

 

This approach is bizarre. The police cannot make a genuine mistake but anyone else in their walk of life can?

 

Tell me this, do you think the police set out to ensure there is trouble and create mountains of work for themselves, their colleagues, the courts (knowing that most troublemakers will be given a slapped wrist) and the remainder of the public going about their business?

 

Is what you are saying that the police are just incompetent?

 

Or might you not respect that they are on the whole:

 

1. Underpaid - would you take on some feckwit with a knife for £20k a year?

2. Under-resourced

3. Under pressure to conform to shifting standards.

 

Kettle a crowd and you're abused. Try to police a crowd on the basis they are decent human beings on the whole and you're abused. They can't win.

 

Why not rather than having a go at them, have a go at the sort of scum who pervade our society who think kicking off over an argument on the internet or stabbing someone because they're wearing the wrong colour shirt is somehow justifiable?

 

I bet the bloke who responded to this has been beaten up, had himself and family threatened, been asked to accept a 1% pay increase (so a decrease ion real terms of 4%) and has probably never been thanked by anybody oustide of his own department for the hundreds of matches that pass off without trouble every year...

 

If he fecked this one up, I'm sure they'll learn for the future. If not they genuinely are incompetent.

[Puddings and Monkeys]

This approach is bizarre. The police cannot make a genuine mistake but anyone else in their walk of life can?

 

Tell me this, do you think the police set out to ensure there is trouble and create mountains of work for themselves, their colleagues, the courts (knowing that most troublemakers will be given a slapped wrist) and the remainder of the public going about their business?

 

Is what you are saying that the police are just incompetent?

 

Or might you not respect that they are on the whole:

 

1. Underpaid - would you take on some feckwit with a knife for £20k a year?

2. Under-resourced

3. Under pressure to conform to shifting standards.

 

Kettle a crowd and you're abused. Try to police a crowd on the basis they are decent human beings on the whole and you're abused. They can't win.

 

Why not rather than having a go at them, have a go at the sort of scum who pervade our society who think kicking off over an argument on the internet or stabbing someone because they're wearing the wrong colour shirt is somehow justifiable?

 

I bet the bloke who responded to this has been beaten up, had himself and family threatened, been asked to accept a 1% pay increase (so a decrease ion real terms of 4%) and has probably never been thanked by anybody oustide of his own department for the hundreds of matches that pass off without trouble every year...

 

If he fecked this one up, I'm sure they'll learn for the future. If not they genuinely are incompetent.

 

FWIW I don't think "troublemakers" get a slapped wrist any more. How long did those Saints fans get for rattling a few fences?

[Chez]

decent response, except that

a) I think there was trouble last time the teams played at SMS after the game - so there was history to this fixture

b) there does not seem to be an explanation as to why the car park wasn't closed to Saints fans as per many many previous games.

[Wes Tender]

This approach is bizarre. The police cannot make a genuine mistake but anyone else in their walk of life can?

 

Tell me this, do you think the police set out to ensure there is trouble and create mountains of work for themselves, their colleagues, the courts (knowing that most troublemakers will be given a slapped wrist) and the remainder of the public going about their business?

 

Is what you are saying that the police are just incompetent?

 

 

Or might you not respect that they are on the whole:

 

1. Underpaid - would you take on some feckwit with a knife for £20k a year?

2. Under-resourced

3. Under pressure to conform to shifting standards.

 

Kettle a crowd and you're abused. Try to police a crowd on the basis they are decent human beings on the whole and you're abused. They can't win.

 

Why not rather than having a go at them, have a go at the sort of scum who pervade our society who think kicking off over an argument on the internet or stabbing someone because they're wearing the wrong colour shirt is somehow justifiable?

 

I bet the bloke who responded to this has been beaten up, had himself and family threatened, been asked to accept a 1% pay increase (so a decrease ion real terms of 4%) and has probably never been thanked by anybody oustide of his own department for the hundreds of matches that pass off without trouble every year...

 

If he fecked this one up, I'm sure they'll learn for the future. If not they genuinely are incompetent.

 

I've already stated a couple of times that I have no issue with the police and they work they do generally. Why are you jumping down my throat for questioning your point that somehow they are the same as other people, when as I say, they are trained to deal with crowds, whether that be football fans, demos or pop concerts? As for their pay and the risks of violence they face, you might as well bracket in the military, firemen, etc.

 

And in case you didn't notice, I praised the report by the chief officer responsible and opined that I thought that he was between a rock and a hard place. All those who are critical of the action they took, or their justification for it are evidence of that.

[Legod Third Coming]

I've already stated a couple of times that I have no issue with the police and they work they do generally. Why are you jumping down my throat for questioning your point that somehow they are the same as other people, when as I say, they are trained to deal with crowds, whether that be football fans, demos or pop concerts? As for their pay and the risks of violence they face, you might as well bracket in the military, firemen, etc.

 

And in case you didn't notice, I praised the report by the chief officer responsible and opined that I thought that he was between a rock and a hard place. All those who are critical of the action they took, or their justification for it are evidence of that.

 

I wasn't having a go per se - apologies.

 

But if people want to take issue with what happened, why the hell aren't they on here complaining about the idiots who create this trouble rather than the police who have to pick up the pieces and will get slaughtered either way for any of their actions?

 

Although the police are trained, a crowd is not something that can be managed like a herd of cattle. Sadly, a crowd can react in any one of thousands of ways each time. The management of crowds is a science that's evolving all the time. So what are the polcie supposed to do? You say they're trained therefore mistakes shouldn't happen. Has no pilot ever crashed a plane? Has no goalkpeer ever dropped the ball? They're still trained aren't they? That's what I mean - are you expecting the police to get it right every time?? Even though crowds can react in different ways on different days with exactly the same management and provocation or otherwise??

 

It seems bizarre to me though that anyone would say - there was trouble, the police are in any way to blame.

 

If I drove at 120mph and slewed off the road on my way home tonight, are BMW somehow to blame? Or McAlpine?

[aintforever]

Oh come off it Le God, the Police are responsible for crowd safety. They ****ed up and don't want to admit it.

 

Even when they shoot an innocent man in the head on a tube train they close ranks and have to get dragged kicking and screaming to court to get anywhere near the truth. Unfortunately nowadays their only concern is keeping them and their pals in jobs, any mistakes are just spun or whitewashed.

[up and away]

Originally Posted by up and away

This just does not hold up. The over riding factor in any situation such as this is safety, Millwall and Saints fans. Hold back minimises this risk and human rights automatically defer to safety. It's not as if this will come as a surprise to Millwall fans or any other club visiting Millwall. It's made to appear like the Police are between a rock and a hard place, but that is not the case, safety is paramount. What is more likely is that they were not prepared for the use of hold back at a late stage and the best option remaining open was to use the Northam car park. This is poor decision making by the Officer in charge and trying to imply that hold back represents far greater safety issues to his officers shows a distinct lack of planning or resources to do the job properly.

The response says quite clearly that the hold back itself was not regarded as the safest option, you're not in any position to be questioning that.

 

I'm not sure what the definition of being between a rock and a hard place is if not given the choice between keeping Millwall fans from causing problems when released along with the home fans, or trying to placate defeated Millwall fans being held behind against their collective will.

 

Do you seriously believe that sheite you have posted? Hold back is a well accepted technique for dealing with large crowds. It has been used successfully previously at St Mary's and it will be used successfully again at St Mary's. The use of hold back is not in question in dealing with crowds, the main point here is why it was not used on this occasion.

 

When using hold back you are placing police into a danger area rather than the combination of police and general public. The police are trained and physically able to perform this role, the general public are not. Human rights just does not come into the equation when the Millwall fans reacted to the Saints goal and it will come as no surprise to any of the Millwall fans if hold back were employed. Safety is paramount in this decision. I doubt any of the Saints fans held back at Fratton were happy, but I can recall very few who did not think it was not the best way in dealing with the situation.

 

As others have commented that access to Britannia Road was not closed, so it's fair to say that the police response was minimal to the threat Millwall posed. Anyone with basic intelligence and history of Millwall will have noted that the potential for trouble was high. Factor in the attempts and actions towards the Saints fans inside the ground and it looked nailed on to even the casual observer.

 

What I can readily accept from the police statement was that hold back was not regarded as the safest option. But the only reason for that would be because the option was never considered as a viable option, they never had the correct personnel in place or they were under staffed. This all goes against the Officer responding to the email and using past injuries to officers as totally lame, would he preferred those injuries were transferred to the general public and the escalated damage they would bring?

[Legod Third Coming]

Oh come off it Le God, the Police are responsible for crowd safety. They ****ed up and don't want to admit it.

 

Even when they shoot an innocent man in the head on a tube train they close ranks and have to get dragged kicking and screaming to court to get anywhere near the truth. Unfortunately nowadays their only concern is keeping them and their pals in jobs, any mistakes are just spun or whitewashed.

 

Sure, they shot a bloke in the head - a series of mistakes made at the highest level. Do you think they intended to shoot an innocent man? I'm not saying the police are either above the law or beyond reproach. They also can't admit the mistakes they make or they get sued by all and sundry - money that you and I pay...

 

Listen to what you're saying. All the police are only interested in keeping themselves in jobs which they deliberately feck up??

 

If they got this wrong - and by the way, you have no idea what alternative outcomes they might have avoided - they got it wrong. Next time, when they keep a load of fans in, they kick off and beat one of our stewards up, remember that they got it right.

[Sour Mash]

I wasn't having a go per se - apologies.

 

But if people want to take issue with what happened, why the hell aren't they on here complaining about the idiots who create this trouble rather than the police who have to pick up the pieces and will get slaughtered either way for any of their actions?

 

Although the police are trained, a crowd is not something that can be managed like a herd of cattle. Sadly, a crowd can react in any one of thousands of ways each time. The management of crowds is a science that's evolving all the time. So what are the polcie supposed to do? You say they're trained therefore mistakes shouldn't happen. Has no pilot ever crashed a plane? Has no goalkpeer ever dropped the ball? They're still trained aren't they? That's what I mean - are you expecting the police to get it right every time?? Even though crowds can react in different ways on different days with exactly the same management and provocation or otherwise??

 

It seems bizarre to me though that anyone would say - there was trouble, the police are in any way to blame.

 

If I drove at 120mph and slewed off the road on my way home tonight, are BMW somehow to blame? Or McAlpine?

 

Absolute rubbish. For whatever reason, Hampshire police decided to leave the north car park open (they normally close it for even those clubs that are no-where near as lively as Millwall), they decided to have minimal policing in the north car park. This led to hundreds of Millwall fans steaming into ordinary Saints supporters until enough of them got together and were able to hold their ground. The police finally turned up and inefficiently split it all up. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that Southampton have a number of "football intelligence" officers, including one charged with solely working on new banning orders - would be hard for them to keep in their cushy jobs if it never kicked off at all.....

[Legod Third Coming]

Absolute rubbish. For whatever reason, Hampshire police decided to leave the north car park open (they normally close it for even those clubs that are no-where near as lively as Millwall), they decided to have minimal policing in the north car park. This led to hundreds of Millwall fans steaming into ordinary Saints supporters until enough of them got together and were able to hold their ground. The police finally turned up and inefficiently split it all up. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that Southampton have a number of "football intelligence" officers, including one charged with solely working on new banning orders - would be hard for them to keep in their cushy jobs if it never kicked off at all.....

 

Yep, that's it. The police are intent on allowing trouble to happen so they can stay in jobs. Perhaps the police created terrorist attrocities too so that they could create SO19...

 

Here's a question. Do you think the police encouraged the club to serve additional beer to make sure the Millwall fans were all primed for a good punch up?

[ringwood]

so he's saying history cannot be used it has to be current intelligence? erm so if they heard nothing then they do nothing despite history?

 

and if theres no trouble before the game then they'll do nothing

 

by the time the games played and theres been a few crunching tackles and the atmosphere in the ground has changed they will do???????

 

Well I read the report as a cover up for failings at this match, irrespective of who started it, I might however print a copy and if I'm held back in a ground as an away fan, politely ask why. and show the reasoning applied by Hants finest. His justification that it affects all fans must mean no 'herding' fans along the way to the grounds just because they arrived by train?

[aintforever]

Sure, they shot a bloke in the head - a series of mistakes made at the highest level. Do you think they intended to shoot an innocent man? I'm not saying the police are either above the law or beyond reproach. They also can't admit the mistakes they make or they get sued by all and sundry - money that you and I pay...

 

Listen to what you're saying. All the police are only interested in keeping themselves in jobs which they deliberately feck up??

 

If they got this wrong - and by the way, you have no idea what alternative outcomes they might have avoided - they got it wrong. Next time, when they keep a load of fans in, they kick off and beat one of our stewards up, remember that they got it right.

 

Why were we kept in at Bournemouth last year, or Millwall, or Pompey if it doesn't help stop trouble? I don't remember any stewards getting kicked in.

 

Holding fans in works, the plod made a wrong call it's as simple as that. If they find their job that hard they should do something else.

[Legod Third Coming]

Why were we kept in at Bournemouth last year, or Millwall, or Pompey if it doesn't help stop trouble? I don't remember any stewards getting kicked in.

 

Holding fans in works, the plod made a wrong call it's as simple as that. If they find their job that hard they should do something else.

 

I would have them do something else. I would have them sterilising the chav scum who think that it's their right to have a punch up with whoever they see fit.

In the old days they would go and meet up somewhere. These days even the scum have no class.

[Sour Mash]

Yep, that's it. The police are intent on allowing trouble to happen so they can stay in jobs. Perhaps the police created terrorist attrocities too so that they could create SO19...

 

Here's a question. Do you think the police encouraged the club to serve additional beer to make sure the Millwall fans were all primed for a good punch up?

 

No, why would they need to? You see, I'm talking about what actually happened

 

You give me one viable reason why policing was more lax for after the Millwall game than almost any other this seson? Especially so, when they played up during the game (police had nearly an hour to change any plans they may have had). There is plenty of well known examples of police sitting back and filming trouble kicking off rather than intervening to stop it happening, so they can make a nice load of arrests a month down the line. If there was never any trouble or very minimal trouble at games, a few of these officers would lose their cushty little numbers involving weekends away for Saints away games and would have to actually go back to dealing with rapists, burglars etc.

[Sour Mash]

I would have them do something else. I would have them sterilising the chav scum who think that it's their right to have a punch up with whoever they see fit.

In the old days they would go and meet up somewhere. These days even the scum have no class.

 

In other words, you don't have a clue.

[Legod Third Coming]

No, why would they need to? You see, I'm talking about what actually happened

 

You give me one viable reason why policing was more lax for after the Millwall game than almost any other this seson? Especially so, when they played up during the game (police had nearly an hour to change any plans they may have had). There is plenty of well known examples of police sitting back and filming trouble kicking off rather than intervening to stop it happening, so they can make a nice load of arrests a month down the line. If there was never any trouble or very minimal trouble at games, a few of these officers would lose their cushty little numbers involving weekends away for Saints away games and would have to actually go back to dealing with rapists, burglars etc.

 

You seriously believe the police would risk a family being caught up and potentially seriously injured? They would enjoy going around and giving the news to Mrs Brown that her husband and son/daughter are in intensive care? That works better for them than sitting down with the Commissioner and pointing out that the effectiveness of their efforts in keeping public order?

[Sour Mash]

You seriously believe the police would risk a family being caught up and potentially seriously injured? They would enjoy going around and giving the news to Mrs Brown that her husband and son/daughter are in intensive care? That works better for them than sitting down with the Commissioner and pointing out that the effectiveness of their efforts in keeping public order?

 

So you can't give me a viable reason? Didn't think so.

[Legod Third Coming]

So you can't give me a viable reason? Didn't think so.

 

The reason is at the top of this thread.

Your concept is a touch less credible I'm afraid...

[Sour Mash]

The reason is at the top of this thread.

Your concept is a touch less credible I'm afraid...

Where? I can't see any viable reason given?

[JRM]

Where? I can't see any viable reason given?

 

he clearly hasn't got a clue and giving the police more credit than they're worth as they are the police. There is no viable reason.

[Thedelldays]

what actually happened..?

a few people spitting and a few stand offs.

 

wow

[Thedelldays]

What a load of ******.

 

 

 

They don't need any legal base when kettling thousands of peaceful demonstrators for hours and hours. Just get the riot gear on, get the batons out and they do what the f*&^ they like.

and going by the utter chaos that follows when they stand back and watch (recent riots)...kettling is pretty lame

[JRM]

Nothing happened. A lot of mongs on here like to exaggerate the day. All that happened were a few arguments and some segregation got moved. Our fans didn't even rattle a fence at this game.

 

I say take the police away completely and nothing will happen. Our so called "youth init brap sick" just like to shout abuse behind the safety of the police line. If that didn't exist they wouldn't think twice.

 

yes that's right, take the police away and the millwall fans would have just come across the netting to shake hands. Completely clueless post.