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Some Hindsight on Negativity


CanadaSaint

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Quite a few also called you

Smug and infantile.

 

I brought attention to a posting style that I - and many others - find annoying to the point of being offensive.

 

You and Alpine are attacking me on a personal level for doing that - i.e., you're doing something that you're so damned quick to criticize others for doing.

 

The two of you are so wound-up about the underlying point, so keen to defend indefensible posts, so cornered by the criticism from so many, that you've become what you both claim to despise.

 

It's actually rather sad.

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The point of this thread is obvious. It is a diversion tactic designed to divert people away from those posters who professed their certainty of some big name signings. They started this back in May but eventually time ran out and in final throw of desperation they began to believe it would happen on the last day.

 

As for Dibden's troll post....definitely desperate !

 

Happy 'trolling'.

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I like this thread.

 

People are entitled to their opinions and we are entitled to disagree with them.

 

But noticable that most getting the stick are those who are let's say (for politeness) more forceful in disbelieving anyone else's opinion.

 

Guys the way you act in a Dad's Army "We're all doomed" manner every other day of the week. I bet you know for a fact that you have a 1 in 576,000 chance of being struck by Lightning and so you don't leave home just in case.

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I brought attention to a posting style that I - and many others - find annoying to the point of being offensive.

 

You and Alpine are attacking me on a personal level for doing that - i.e., you're doing something that you're so damned quick to criticize others for doing.

 

The two of you are so wound-up about the underlying point, so keen to defend indefensible posts, so cornered by the criticism from so many, that you've become what you both claim to despise.

 

It's actually rather sad.

 

I find blind positivity and refusal to discuss anything negative or even entertain a theory which could be viewed as negative (as well as refusing to accept that maybe someone at the club has ever messed up) annoying to the point of being offensive.

 

I'm not criticising you on a personal level. You have started a thread which looks to me like 'let's all laugh at those people who posted something ott no matter what you state your intention was. It's no coincidence that you have had disagreements with me on here and then this thread starts. By posting it you come across to me and others as really smug and pathetic.

 

The rest of your points are just incorrect. I have fully justified what I have written on here and am not defending the indefensible as you claim. You dredge up posts from months ago immediately after a game and you call me sad? Go look in the mirror.

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The point of this thread is obvious. It is a diversion tactic designed to divert people away from those posters who professed their certainty of some big name signings. They started this back in May but eventually time ran out and in final throw of desperation they began to believe it would happen on the last day.

 

As for Dibden's troll post....definitely desperate !

 

Happy 'trolling'.

 

I notice you are avoid this question c**ty chops.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?32359-Forward-striker-goal-scorer..&p=1135936#post1135936

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I'm not p*ssed off, simply putting my point of view across. If you notice, the first page of this thread I am referred to rather a lot so surely I am entitled to put my view across?

 

Agreed, you certainly are. But have you thought that one of the reasons you're referred to as much as you are is mostly down to the manner of your replies and comments?

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Agreed, you certainly are. But have you thought that one of the reasons you're referred to as much as you are is mostly down to the manner of your replies and comments?

 

Mostly because I posted the most in that post match reaction thread and what I said was over the top. Also because certain posters dislike me posting what they view is a negative opinion so enjoy having a pop when they can.

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I find blind positivity and refusal to discuss anything negative or even entertain a theory which could be viewed as negative (as well as refusing to accept that maybe someone at the club has ever messed up) annoying to the point of being offensive.

 

So do I. Well, annoying but not necessarily offensive because positive posts don't usually contain unwarranted insults about players and management and demands for firings.

 

I'm not criticising you on a personal level.

 

and three lines later:

 

By posting it you come across to me and others as really smug and pathetic.
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So do I. Well, annoying but not necessarily offensive because positive posts don't usually contain unwarranted insults about players and management and demands for firings.

 

 

 

and three lines later:

 

That's a criticism of you starting this thread. By starting it that is how you come across. It's not a personal insult.

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I brought attention to a posting style that I - and many others - find annoying to the point of being offensive.

You and Alpine are attacking me on a personal level for doing that - i.e., you're doing something that you're so damned quick to criticize others for doing.

 

The two of you are so wound-up about the underlying point, so keen to defend indefensible posts, so cornered by the criticism from so many, that you've become what you both claim to despise.

 

It's actually rather sad.

 

Really? I suggest you need to chill out a bit or put them on ignore. They don't share your opinion of things and you find it offensive?

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Ths was my assessment:

 

Wallsall.... So bad last season we beat them 3-1 with Graham Murty, Paul Wotton and Lloyd James on the pitch.

 

Adkins = pick a winning team and f u cking stick with it eh?

 

This proves:

 

1. I am consistent in my beliefs.

2. I was right.

3. Adkins listened. From the Wallsall game we played a far more settled side and were promoted.

 

I notice none of you feckers is thanking me though. Typical. Miserable barstewards.

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I like this thread.

 

People are entitled to their opinions and we are entitled to disagree with them.

 

But noticable that most getting the stick are those who are let's say (for politeness) more forceful in disbelieving anyone else's opinion.

 

Guys the way you act in a Dad's Army "We're all doomed" manner every other day of the week. I bet you know for a fact that you have a 1 in 576,000 chance of being struck by Lightning and so you don't leave home just in case.

 

My mate Beastie (true story) was struck by lightning twice. Years apart. Are those odds you quotes accurate?? If they are he is one unlucky fella.

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Really? I suggest you need to chill out a bit or put them on ignore. They don't share your opinion of things and you find it offensive?

 

Thanks for the advice but I don't believe in putting people on ignore, and I'm really chilled.

 

I believe in offering my opinion and trying to support it with some kind of rationale, and I do enjoy opposing views as long as they are reasonably stated and have something to support them. I've learned a lot here.

 

My support for the opinion that excessive negativity is a problem on this forum is that Walsall thread, although there are certainly others, so I've offered an opinion and supported it.

 

Maybe you should take your own advice and put me on ignore.

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Why do people get so worked up when others express negative opinions, if this thread proves anything opinions do not affect the final outcome, so live and let live people.

 

You'll find this a lot on here. It isn't OK to question things in a reasonable manner because it's the club you're criticising and because I'm a bit sad, by definition me. That seems to be the attitude anyway. Take the transfer window multiple threads - it's blatantly obvious we were looking at trying to sign an expensive forward and to express disappointment that we didn't isn't heresy and is probably quite close to how NA feels.

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Thanks for the advice but I don't believe in putting people on ignore, and I'm really chilled.

 

I believe in offering my opinion and trying to support it with some kind of rationale, and I do enjoy opposing views as long as they are reasonably stated and have something to support them. I've learned a lot here.

 

My support for the opinion that excessive negativity is a problem on this forum is that Walsall thread, although there are certainly others, so I've offered an opinion and supported it.

 

Maybe you should take your own advice and put me on ignore.

 

But then you have totally disregarded the reasons for those negative opinions. As I said it is because it is a post match reaction thread immediately after a game. Go on any forum after a disappointing defeat and you will see similar comments.

 

Using that thread as evidence doesn't support your point at all.

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On request of OP I've opened this up again. Please keep the debate genuine and not decend into bashing of individuals.

 

Odd decision. If we are to believe Canada saint's assertion that he absolutely did not start this thread with ridicule in mind (sure) then the point he is making is that some people post 'negatively' and some positively. He says he dislikes when posters are overly negative whilst others dislike the same traits in those people who display mindless positivity. We get it.

 

What is the point of this thread?

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Odd decision. If we are to believe Canada saint's assertion that he absolutely did not start this thread with ridicule in mind (sure) then the point he is making is that some people post 'negatively' and some positively. He says he dislikes when posters are overly negative whilst others dislike the same traits in those people who display mindless positivity. We get it.

 

What is the point of this thread?

 

Why do you care if the thread is open or closed? You can choose not to read it

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Why do you care if the thread is open or closed? You can choose not to read it

 

Because I can't see how this thread is anything other than posters baiting each other and criticising other posters posting style on both sides. Nothing will change on either side and all this thread will do is inflame opinions so seriously what is the point?

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Thanks for the advice but I don't believe in putting people on ignore, and I'm really chilled.

 

I believe in offering my opinion and trying to support it with some kind of rationale, and I do enjoy opposing views as long as they are reasonably stated and have something to support them. I've learned a lot here.

 

My support for the opinion that excessive negativity is a problem on this forum is that Walsall thread, although there are certainly others, so I've offered an opinion and supported it.

 

Maybe you should take your own advice and put me on ignore.

 

Why? I don't find you offensive.

 

You've taken a thread that was made (in the main) after saints lost and use that to suggest people are to negative, That's like posting up a post match thread after saints have won to suggest people are to positive.

 

What ever your stated aim you've just stirred up more ****

 

Some people just have a negative out look on life some a positive this place is no different to every other football forum I've gone on.

Edited by doddisalegend
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I'm still struggling to find what this thread is meant to be discussing.

 

The intention was to trigger a discussion on a dimension of this forum that has alienated a lot of people and p*ssed off a lot more.

 

I fully accept that people will be negative when we lose and positive when we win - I'm exactly that way myself. My wife gives me space on loss days and hasn't used the "It's only a game" line in fifteen years.;)

 

However, the kind of hysterical, over-the-top negativity we see in post-loss discussions, but also in things like transfer window and new signing threads, goes way beyond the pale and doesn't make this a better forum. Far from it.

 

I'd love to see a bit more balance, and if the controversial link to the Walsall post-game thread helps that to happen, fantastic.

 

For me, the post of the thread so far was this one:

 

Mature individuals learn from the benefit that hindsight gives them; they learn from their mistakes. Anybody who does not take on board the lessons of experience and makes the same mistakes again and again makes themselves look a fool. This is especially true on an internet forum where something said in the heat of the moment can come back to haunt you if it is still in the public domain and so can easily be dredged up again. Therefore, if one is prone to knee-jerk reactions, perhaps a good idea to wait until the morning after the poor result, or whatever was controversial when it happened and sleep on it.

 

Many have passed judgement on our new Dutch signing based on the internet opinions of another forum, without making an informed judgement based on the evidence of their own eyes. One only has to be reminded from past errors of judgment that there is the distinct possibility that they will have egg all over their faces once more, having learned nothing from previous experience.

 

Right there is the point of the thread. I hope it's heeded.

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Anyone making such apocalyptic comments after one game -let alone the Walsall game where we battered them over the 90mins- is a moron.

 

However, the OP is also wrong and confuses very different cases. There is a massive difference between throwing a hissy over one result -and a dropped 3 points- and concerns over our dealings in the transfer market which might derail a number of games -and potentially the loss of a far greater number of points. Because a few people had egg on their faces after the Walsall result doesn't mean they are altogether wrong here. Because the two cases are so very different, I think there is very little to learn from this particular example of hindsight.

 

Indeed, I am willing to bet that there are quite a few people who were able to put the Walsall result in context yet felt slightly underwhelmed at the stroke of eleven o'clock. Why tar everyone with the negativity brush as the OP implicitly does?

 

Of course, some will milk every last drop out of lack of transfer dealings - I think they overstate their case and look like bulbs in doing so. IMO our dealings haven't been disastrous by any stretch of the imagination; but pace up top/cover for Lambo could be the difference between a decent season of consolidation and possibly a fantastic one. The loan window opens soon and we might still do something, so even that statement needs to be made with caution.

Edited by shurlock
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Here was original response when someone tried to resurrect this thread after we had been promoted (and I still stand by it):

 

 

The only person who should be embarrassed should be you with your constant need of self gratification and worthiness, coupled with an obvious insecurity issue that needs to be fed by attempting to show up others.

 

How any Saints fan can be embarrassed at seeing their Club promoted and seeing such joyous scenes over the weekend is beyond me.

 

At this moment in time I would imagine that anyone who blew a gasket over the Wallsall loss is feeling something much more positive and joyous, and is not even contemplating being embarrassed.

 

The overwhelming majority of the initial responses on this thread are from passionate supporters who were obviously frustrated at losing to a team fighting relegation, whilst we were challenging for promotion. Throw in the immediacy and the knee jerkiness of the interweb and it should be no surprise that people let off steam on threads like these. It is not a measure of their support, indeed I would say their passionate outbursts show how much this Club means to them.

 

Methinks you really need to give it a rest with this approach and instead wallow in the delight and happiness of promotion (or see a shrink).

 

HTH

 

 

I even think Hypo says he "hates Saints" somewhere in his immediate knee jerkiness, and yet we patently know that is not the case. Using post match reactions to a frustrating and potentially damaging defeat to prove a point is a tad weird. You would only have to voxpop a handful of Saints fans after a defeat at SMS to obtain a rather caustic and annoyed response.

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If I leave my socks and pants on the bathroom floor, Lady Trousers will often give me a ticking off about it, which can then descend into an argument about something else.

 

However, if Lady Trousers leaves her under garments on the bathroom floor I typically won't mention it to her in case it triggers an argument.

 

Two approaches: confrontational vs pragmatism.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of human nature, oh wise folk of the SaintsWeb Forum.

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If I leave my socks and pants on the bathroom floor, Lady Trousers will often give me a ticking off about it, which can then descend into an argument about something else.

 

However, if Lady Trousers leaves her under garments on the bathroom floor I typically won't mention it to her in case it triggers an argument.

 

Two approaches: confrontational vs pragmatism.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of human nature, oh wise folk of the SaintsWeb Forum.

 

Both untidy...buy a clothes basket!

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If I leave my socks and pants on the bathroom floor, Lady Trousers will often give me a ticking off about it, which can then descend into an argument about something else.

 

However, if Lady Trousers leaves her under garments on the bathroom floor I typically won't mention it to her in case it triggers an argument.

 

Two approaches: confrontational vs pragmatism.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of human nature, oh wise folk of the SaintsWeb Forum.

 

I think thats the wonderful world of man/woman co habitation HTBH..

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I brought attention to a posting style that I - and many others - find annoying to the point of being offensive.

 

You and Alpine are attacking me on a personal level for doing that - i.e., you're doing something that you're so damned quick to criticize others for doing.

 

The two of you are so wound-up about the underlying point, so keen to defend indefensible posts, so cornered by the criticism from so many, that you've become what you both claim to despise.

 

It's actually rather sad.

 

Wow, this must rate as the most hypocritical post on here.....EVER.

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On request of OP I've opened this up again. Please keep the debate genuine and not decend into bashing of individuals.

 

Well, I am asking you to lock it again because it is a pointless c*ck-swinging contest.

 

If I start a thread citing the mindless positivity of the likes of NickG, will that be kept open after it descends into argument ?

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Odd decision. If we are to believe Canada saint's assertion that he absolutely did not start this thread with ridicule in mind (sure) then the point he is making is that some people post 'negatively' and some positively. He says he dislikes when posters are overly negative whilst others dislike the same traits in those people who display mindless positivity. We get it.

 

What is the point of this thread?

 

Yet, completely agree. Totally bizarre.

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Well, I am asking you to lock it again because it is a pointless c*ck-swinging contest.

 

If I start a thread citing the mindless positivity of the likes of NickG, will that be kept open after it descends into argument ?

 

Yes you are of course right because not many people respect others view and most cannot make a reasoned argument and negative in most cases is in fact having a different view.

 

How being worried whether the new Dutch bloke is up to standard is negative I dont know surely it is the opposite

 

He may well be what is required but at the moment there is little evidence to suggest that he is - only time will tell

 

However if we had signed Gorkiss or Jemel where there is lots of evidence that they would be very welcome

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Anyone making such apocalyptic comments after one game -let alone the Walsall game where we battered them over the 90mins- is a moron.

 

However, the OP is also wrong and confuses very different cases. There is a massive difference between throwing a hissy over one result -and a dropped 3 points- and concerns over our dealings in the transfer market which might derail a number of games -and potentially the loss of a far greater number of points. Because a few people had egg on their faces after the Walsall result doesn't mean they are altogether wrong here. Because the two cases are so very different, I think there is very little to learn from this particular example of hindsight.

 

Indeed, I am willing to bet that there are quite a few people who were able to put the Walsall result in context yet felt slightly underwhelmed at the stroke of eleven o'clock. Why tar everyone with the negativity brush as the OP implicitly does?

 

Of course, some will milk every last drop out of lack of transfer dealings - I think they overstate their case and look like bulbs in doing so. IMO our dealings haven't been disastrous by any stretch of the imagination; but pace up top/cover for Lambo could be the difference between a decent season of consolidation and possibly a fantastic one. The loan window opens soon and we might still do something, so even that statement needs to be made with caution.

 

A very balanced and well reasoned post IMO.

 

Probably far better to have reposted those wrist-slitters who prophesised that we had blown our chances of promotion when we had sacked Pardew and when Adkins had just arrived and not unaturally took a few games to begin turning things around. But what riles me are posts that draw conclusions about these transfer targets and the reasons why we didn't land them, without an ounce of substantiated evidence to back them up. People are happy to believe posters to rival forums who are most likely to have a similar mix of idiots as ours, disgruntled managers and agents with an agenda, or friends of the office cleaner's hairdresser. Many times already under the new regime at the club, players have been signed right out of the blue, from under everybodys' radar. Generally speaking, most of the signings have been effective in improving the team. Yes, we could do with cover up front, but are able to bring in a loan. There is not a frantic urgency to do so, so we can wait until we get somebody of the calibre that will make a real difference to us. The naming of the Premiership squads will highlight a number of potential candidates, but equally no doubt, our scouting network could bring in somebody from abroad.

 

The idiots are those who place blame on the club management for not signing certain players who price themselves out of the market, don't want to be here, or aren't better than what we have. Personally, I have seen enough instances of good practise by Cortese and Adkins to convince me that they deserve our confidence and the benefit of the doubt at the very least.

 

Some of those who went off half-cock in the early days of last season had to be reminded that the season was a marathon, not a sprint. Having in retrospect been made to look stupid when we gained promotion, is it too much to ask that they think back on that and learn from it?

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Why Canada Saint should find "negative" posts offensive is beyond me.

That Walsall match was a kick in the nuts and I can't ever remember feeling so down as I drove along the M40 that night.

But a truly miraculous run which no one could really have predicted delivered us and I dare say all those people CS found offensive were cheering with everyone else when we clinched promotion.

Only posts that involve predictions should be dragged up to prove a point - this one was just stirring it imo.

 

People cope with the fluctuations of being a Saints fan in a myriad of different ways and as such should be allowed to express themselves on here without the positivity police (and to a much lesser extent the negativity police) giving them a hard time. I enjoy reading Alpine and Hypo's contributuions as much as anyone elses because at least they offer an alternative and minority view. They should be allowed to be heard without ridicule.

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In reality, how would you feel if you had a row with the missus, you made up (probably had great sex) and then six months later when there is a little spat over something else altogether, she goes away and comes back with a video tape of your previous row...

 

We all say things in the heat of the moment that we:

 

a) might not really mean

b) might, on reflection decide we didn't mean

c) did not intend to say or wouldn't have said with the benefit of a little reflection

d) later change our mind over.

 

For the life of me I cannot fathom why some our fans are so angry, upset and frustrated with our current situation. To me it begger's belief. Two years ago it was just possible we would have been building up to a game in the Isthmian league this weekend. Now I'm looking forward to life in the Premiership next year!

 

Conversely, surely it is better to try to have a reasoned argument with people like Hypo, Alps or whomever rather than simply dismissing their opinion?

 

Their views may run contrary to any sanity you perceive, but we have to imagine they are genuinely held.

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