Tax us more, say wealthy Europeans

[pap]

This is very interesting.

 

Excerpt:

 

First it was Warren Buffett announcing that he and his chums had been "coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress".

 

Then Liliane Bettencourt, France's richest woman, who was at the centre of a tax scandal last year, signed a letter along with 15 other billionaires begging to make a special contribution to the treasury to help drag France out of the financial crisis.

 

Even an Italian got in the action, with the boss of Ferrari saying that as he was rich, it was only "right" that he stump up more cash.

 

Now, as both France and Spain consider introducing a wealth tax, a group of 50 rich Germans have joined the "tax me harder" movement by renewing their open call to Angela Merkel to "stop the gap between rich and poor getting even bigger".

 

The German group, Vermögende für eine Vermögensabgabe (The Wealthy for a Capital Levy) is the latest manifestation of a feeling among some well-off individuals that the spare cash in their bank accounts might be able to ease, if not solve, the financial crises threatening to cripple their countries.

 

"None of us are in Buffett's or Bettencourt's league," said the founder, Dieter Lehmkuhl, a retired doctor with assets of €1.5m (£1.3m). "We're a broad church – teachers, doctors, entrepreneurs. Most of our wealth is inherited. But we have more money than we need."

 

The group's manifesto claims Germany could raise €100bn (£88.5bn) if the richest paid a 5% wealth tax for two years.

 

Full article

 

Guardian article

[dune]

That's fine for the super rich, but for the wealth creators in the UK what we need is tax cuts so they can use the money create jobs. This might not sit well with Socialists, but it is exactly what is needed to help UK PLC.

[Whitey Grandad]

I noticed that they didn't include any cheques in the letter.

[badgerx16]

That's fine for the super rich, but for the wealth creators in the UK what we need is tax cuts so they can use the money create jobs. This might not sit well with Socialists, but it is exactly what is needed to help UK PLC.

Could you guarantee that any monies spent would go to boosting the UK economy, and not be spent on German super cars, extended foreign holidays, and Spanish property deals ?

Any cuts in taxation for higher rate tax payers should be directly linked to investment funds, not simply acheived by lopping 5p in the £ off income tax. You would make far more of an impression by adjusting the lower end tax bands, putting more money in EVERYBODY's pockets, and where it is far more likely that it will be spent within the UK.

[dune]

Could you guarantee that any monies spent would go to boosting the UK economy, and not be spent on German super cars, extended foreign holidays, and Spanish property deals ?

Any cuts in taxation for higher rate tax payers should be directly linked to investment funds, not simply acheived by lopping 5p in the £ off income tax. You would make far more of an impression by adjusting the lower end tax bands, putting more money in EVERYBODY's pockets, and where it is far more likely that it will be spent within the UK.

 

You are wrong. Small businesses is what will get this country out of the mire. Whilst I am naturally in favour of tax cuts and freedom (the opposite of Socilism) the current mess we inheritted from Labour means we can't cut taxes accross the board, but we can cut taxes of higher rate taxpayers which would stimulate investment and job creation.

[badgerx16]

You are wrong. Small businesses is what will get this country out of the mire. Whilst I am naturally in favour of tax cuts and freedom (the opposite of Socialism) the current mess we inherited from Labour means we can't cut taxes across the board, but we can cut taxes of higher rate taxpayers which would stimulate investment and job creation.

No, you are wrong, you help the small businesses by making more money available to their customers. They can't generate new jobs unless they are able to sell their wares. Also, if you want more start ups, you need investment via the banks, not letting the 50% tax band off of some of their liability, ( which they are probably under committing anyway, due to their employing clever accountants ). ( I've also corrected your spelling for you ;-) )

[dune]

No, you are wrong, you help the small businesses by making more money available to their customers. They can't generate new jobs unless they are able to sell their wares. Also, if you want more start ups, you need investment via the banks, not letting the 50% tax band off of some of their liability, ( which they are probably under committing anyway, due to their employing clever accountants ). ( I've also corrected your spelling for you ;-) )

 

In case it escaped your attention the country has been wrecked by the last government and it's only the brilliant cuts to the public sector which have kept taxes at the current level. Unless of course you want far deeper cuts to the public sector (i would love this) then further mass tax cuts are not possible. However cutting the top rate tax rate as been estimated to be relatively inexpensive.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Tax avoidance by Vodafone: £6 Billion.

Tax avoidance in 2010 by richest people in UK: £7 Billion.

Tax payers bill for Banking crisis: £131 Billion.

[View From The Top]

Dune's record on economics is without parallel.

[Lord Duckhunter]

In Mrs Thatcher's first budget the top rate of income tax was reduced from 83% to 60%, and the basic rate from 33% to 30%. The important thing about income tax is what it generates for the Govt. For years the lefties in this Country have used income tax as some sort of "fairness tax". Take the emotion out of it, and set the tax rates at a level that brings in the most revenue. Quite clearly if you tax the Sugars',Branson's and McCartney's of this world 98%, then they'll end up paying nothing. The 50% tax rate was a gimmick, a sop to the lefties in the Labour party who want the pips squeaking again. To the shame of The Tory's they haven't got the balls or convictions that Maggie had to reduce the burden.

 

The working man is also taxed too much, how can we have a tax system that taxes someone and then gives him some of it back in a form of credits. If they need WFTC, then take them out of tax altogether.

 

As for tax aviodence, it's not just the Phillip Green's and Lord Ashcroft's of this world. The "deed of variation" signed by David , Ed Milliband and their mother following their fathers death, reduced their inheritance tax liability to 60% from 100% on the property. He also set up "The Office of David Miliband Limited", any non-Parliamentary earnings are paid to this company, attracting 20% in corporation tax as oppossed to income tax.Personally, I can see nothing wrong with this lawful organsiation of his finances, but some people seem to have an issue with some minimising their tax liabilities, including many from the party he leads.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Tax avoidance by Vodafone: £6 Billion.

Tax avoidance in 2010 by richest people in UK: £7 Billion.

Tax payers bill for Banking crisis: £131 Billion.

 

Tax aviodence by the Guardian's parent Company.

 

http://autonomousmind.wordpress.com/2011/02/19/the-guardians-rank-hypocrisy-on-tax-avoidance/

[Trader]

The German group, Vermögende für eine Vermögensabgabe (The Wealthy for a Capital Levy) is the latest manifestation of a feeling among some well-off individuals that the spare cash in their bank accounts might be able to ease, if not solve, the financial crises threatening to cripple their countries.

 

"None of us are in Buffett's or Bettencourt's league," said the founder, Dieter Lehmkuhl, a retired doctor with assets of €1.5m (£1.3m). "We're a broad church – teachers, doctors, entrepreneurs. Most of our wealth is inherited. But we have more money than we need."

 

The group's manifesto claims Germany could raise €100bn (£88.5bn) if the richest paid a 5% wealth tax for two years.

 

If I was a German billionaire I would move to Switzerland to avoid this type of nonsense.

 

HTH

[badgerx16]

In case it escaped your attention the country has been wrecked by the last government and it's only the brilliant cuts to the public sector which have kept taxes at the current level. Unless of course you want far deeper cuts to the public sector (i would love this) then further mass tax cuts are not possible. However cutting the top rate tax rate as been estimated to be relatively inexpensive.

So what you are saying is that those in the 50p band have been so successful at avoiding paying their dues that Georgie Porgy will decide it's no longer worth the effort for HMRC to collect it ? There is no evidence that carrying out this cut would stimulate the economy.

If you cut 1p off the base rate of income tax, and that is spent on VATable goods, then you automatically get 20% back. You also stimulate the turnover in shops and for small businesses, thereby improving the chance that these small businesses will expand their workforce, generating the growth that is currently only detectable with a very strong magnifying glass

[solentstars]

The German group, Vermögende für eine Vermögensabgabe (The Wealthy for a Capital Levy) is the latest manifestation of a feeling among some well-off individuals that the spare cash in their bank accounts might be able to ease, if not solve, the financial crises threatening to cripple their countries.

 

"None of us are in Buffett's or Bettencourt's league," said the founder, Dieter Lehmkuhl, a retired doctor with assets of €1.5m (£1.3m). "We're a broad church – teachers, doctors, entrepreneurs. Most of our wealth is inherited. But we have more money than we need."

 

The group's manifesto claims Germany could raise €100bn (£88.5bn) if the richest paid a 5% wealth tax for two years.

 

If I was a German billionaire I would move to Switzerland to avoid this type of nonsense.

 

HTH

so your a billionaire with more money than you will ever need and would move to switzerland to avoid 5 % tax for 2 years:lol:god some people really love money

[dune]

so your a billionaire with more money than you will ever need and would move to switzerland to avoid 5 % tax for 2 years:lol:god some people really love money

 

That's why they're wealthy.

[badgerx16]

... some people really love money

Timothy 6:10 ( King James Bible )

[pap]

My view is that if people want to pay more tax, there should be a mechanism for doing so.

 

Why would an elective tax be a bad thing? There's no reason that it has to be applied across the board, but if we have people who are willing to pay a little extra, why shouldn't they have a facility to do so?

 

It's easy enough to donate to charity online or on a subscription basis. If there are rich people out there who want to pay a little extra, fair play to them.

Edited 30 August, 2011 by pap

[Trader]

so your a billionaire with more money than you will ever need and would move to switzerland to avoid 5 % tax for 2 years:lol:god some people really love money

 

woosh

[Lord Duckhunter]

So what you are saying is that those in the 50p band have been so successful at avoiding paying their dues that Georgie Porgy will decide it's no longer worth the effort for HMRC to collect it ? There is no evidence that carrying out this cut would stimulate the economy.

 

There is plenty of evidence that high rates of income tax stiffle the economy.

 

If the answer to our problems was higher tax rates for the rich, then Thatcher wouldn't have needed to clear up the mess left by both parties in the 70's. The 50% tax rate was a purely political gimmick to appease the soak the rich brigade. When Heally tried to make the "pips squeak", we ended up in front of the IMF.

[View From The Top]

If we taxed corporations correctly and stopped the likes of Philip Green, Barclays and Vodafone avoiding paying their due share then perhaps income tax could be cut for the ordinary working man.

 

None of us likes income tax and NI and most of us feel like we've been mugged every month when we look at our pay statements but until governments of all shades actually do something about big business avoiding tax, nowt will change.

[Lord Duckhunter]

If we taxed corporations correctly and stopped the likes of Philip Green, Barclays and Vodafone avoiding paying their due share then perhaps income tax could be cut for the ordinary working man.

 

None of us likes income tax and NI and most of us feel like we've been mugged every month when we look at our pay statements but until governments of all shades actually do something about big business avoiding tax, nowt will change.

 

What about people like Milliband? If we are asking Philip Green to stop his avoidence then surely the same should apply to him?

[View From The Top]

What about people like Milliband? If we are asking Philip Green to stop his avoidence then surely the same should apply to him?

 

What a strange thing to say, of course him as well. It should apply to everyone.

[badgerx16]

There is plenty of evidence that high rates of income tax stifle the economy.

According to the right-wing media. There is similarly no evidence that cutting the top rate of tax does anything to stimulate it. These people do not need any more loose change, they will simply move their surplus offshore.

[Saintandy666]

I noticed that they didn't include any cheques in the letter.

 

I hate this comment, many have made it in relation to this thinking it dismisses it. What they want is structural tax changes, not a one off gesture they can make.

[Lord Duckhunter]

What a strange thing to say, of course him as well. It should apply to everyone.

 

It's not a strange thing to say, Milliband and his family avoided some Inheritance Tax and his brother channels all non parliamentry earnings through "The office of David Milliband Ltd". The upshot meaning 20% tax is paid on those earnings rather than high rates of income tax.Perfectly legal, as I'm sure Philip Green's schemes are as well. You mention Barclays and Vodafone, yet The Guardians parent company use similar schemes to dodge tax.At least Vodafone don't put themselves up as the moral heartbeat of the nation whilst avoiding tax..........

[Jonnyboy]

Could you guarantee that any monies spent would go to boosting the UK economy, and not be spent on German super cars, extended foreign holidays, and Spanish property deals ?

Any cuts in taxation for higher rate tax payers should be directly linked to investment funds, not simply acheived by lopping 5p in the £ off income tax. You would make far more of an impression by adjusting the lower end tax bands, putting more money in EVERYBODY's pockets, and where it is far more likely that it will be spent within the UK.

 

exactly

[View From The Top]

It's not a strange thing to say, Milliband and his family avoided some Inheritance Tax and his brother channels all non parliamentry earnings through "The office of David Milliband Ltd". The upshot meaning 20% tax is paid on those earnings rather than high rates of income tax.Perfectly legal, as I'm sure Philip Green's schemes are as well. You mention Barclays and Vodafone, yet The Guardians parent company use similar schemes to dodge tax.At least Vodafone don't put themselves up as the moral heartbeat of the nation whilst avoiding tax..........

 

Get over yourself. Your right wing hysteria is tiresome at best.

 

I happen to believe that ALL companies should pay their fair share regardless. If companies did then the ordinary man in the street may get a fairer deal. It's not a party political point.

[Jonnyboy]

That's why they're wealthy.

 

that's why letting wealthy peoplehave more money will never solve a country's problems hth