How have medicals changed?

[Willo]

I wondered if anyone out there knows much about what level of testing is undertaken for new players these days, and how it may have changed over the last few years?

 

I imagine medicals used to be no more than glorified fitness tests - perhaps only a bleep test or similar? Do we now, for example, make players go through numerous MRI scans on all their body parts just to see if there is anything 'wrong'? Who makes the decision on those scans? What if a player demonstrates he can cope dispite an apparent injury?

[Lallana's Left Peg]

A player being injured doesn't stop a medical being passed as long as it looks like the injury is healing as quickly and and in the manner expected at that stage of recovery. If there is something about the recovery that doesn't seem right, the club will understand the risks associated with it and make a decision.

 

Medicals aren't really about a players fitness in terms of capability of running etc., they are more to do with long-term health risks around the heart, bone density, etc. - things that impact a player long-term and also their ability to recover from an injury in the future.

[Victor]

They have changed for the better in that previously when a medical showed a player had a problem we still signed him. Now we don't.

[Pilchards]

I know at a lower level they have a medical tick list they have to follow for insurance purposes.

[david in sweden]

They have changed for the better in that previously when a medical showed a player had a problem we still signed him. Now we don't.

 

somehow I get the impression that the " problem " may well have been in his mindset... rather than his ankle.

 

NA has spent a lot of time coaching along a squad who can all play well enough to be selected, and yet (mentally) will still be pleased even to sit on the bench week after week. Those who won't / can't conform to this..e.g. Puncheon only cause upset and disatisfaction in the dressing room.

 

Bringing someone in who won't " gell " with the rest of the squad is the starting of another problem.

I believe that NA knows what he wants when he signs players, but I trust him enough if he wants to back off and say " no thanks".

to signing someone that he's not sure " will fit in ". Right mental attitude is the key..if it's not there..forget it !

[dubai_phil]

How have medicals changed?

 

We no longer have someone inside the doctors' surgery to tell us all the details of who's coming & what happened.

 

Who was it? Pechy, Saint Peach? someone like that? Guess his Dad lost the gig

[Willo]

I agree that NA probably wants to understand thementality of the player as well as the physical condition, but I don't know how that would work in practice. Does NA attend the medical? Does he take them out for a round of golf to chat? I don't know. However, I would imagine other clubs will quickly get ****ed off if we unsettle players by agreeing a fee, only then to decide they didn't pass the 'gut instinct' test about whether they would fit into the dressing room. NA can vet away with on this occassion because there appears to be an ankle injury acting as a scapegoat...

[Toomer]

Long gone are the days when it was a wooden stick under the tongue hand under the ball bag and cough.

[stevegrant]

How have medicals changed?

 

We no longer have someone inside the doctors' surgery to tell us all the details of who's coming & what happened.

 

Who was it? Pechy, Saint Peach? someone like that? Guess his Dad lost the gig

It was peacey.

 

The club used to use Nightingale Surgery in Romsey, where Drs Peace and Warner were the club's doctors on a part-time basis. I'm led to believe this partnership ended a year or so ago as the club wanted to employ a doctor full-time, and the money involved was nowhere near what a GP would earn as a practice partner (as both those doctors are).

 

No idea whether SFC actually managed to recruit someone into that role full-time or not.

[derry]

On BBC Solent this morning, The club were unable to get a definite medical opinion that Fontaine's ankle problem was cured so in the end decided not to proceed.

[forever a red and white]

As far as I'm aware with club doctor's there are two who go in a couple of times a week

[Matthew Le God]

I wondered if anyone out there knows much about what level of testing is undertaken for new players these days, and how it may have changed over the last few years?

 

I imagine medicals used to be no more than glorified fitness tests - perhaps only a bleep test or similar? Do we now, for example, make players go through numerous MRI scans on all their body parts just to see if there is anything 'wrong'? Who makes the decision on those scans? What if a player demonstrates he can cope dispite an apparent injury?

 

They have been doing scans, blood tests etc etc for years, certainly not only introduced in the "last few years". For example there is a documentary about Peter Reid and Sunderland from the 1996/97 season, where they show potential new players undergoing a range of scans and numerous other screenings at a hospital. Probably was going on long before that as well.

Edited 25 August, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[PhilippineSaint]

They must be at least if not more intensive than a medical to work in the offshore industry and that can take up to 6 hours to complete with all the X rays scans blood tests urine checks obviously scans on the bits that are known to be broken have to be followed up so I see no problem in any body failing a medical but obviously your potential employer is not allowed to disclose any of your personnal information to the public which is why we would not have heard anything from SFC regarding this.

[um pahars]

Long gone are the days when it was a wooden stick under the tongue hand under the ball bag and cough.

 

That reminds me of the first day of my job at AC Delco.

 

Throw in the bleep hearing test (at the end I was just pressing the button at random) and the looking at those funny coloured shapes (the colour blindness check, not those magic eye dolphin pictures) and you've got the full picture.

[david in sweden]

I agree that NA probably wants to understand thementality of the player as well as the physical condition, but I don't know how that would work in practice. Does NA attend the medical? Does he take them out for a round of golf to chat? I don't know. However, I would imagine other clubs will quickly get ****ed off if we unsettle players by agreeing a fee, only then to decide they didn't pass the 'gut instinct' test about whether they would fit into the dressing room. NA can vet away with on this occassion because there appears to be an ankle injury acting as a scapegoat...

 

(other clubs ) .so let them get pi**ed off . We're talking "real money " here . A large transfer fee + 3 years salary = a lot of investment.

I wouldn't want to buy in a " potential trouble-maker..or a "crocked player " just because I'd had a bid accepted.

 

I looked at a couple of reports about Fontaine's visit to SMS and I don't think that I read anything " even between the lines " that said he FAILED the medical. Certainly his agent strenuously denied there was a problem with the ankle (but then again he would -wouldn't he ?)..it mentioned the two previous operations...but didn't state directly that it was aproblem.

 

I don't for one moment think that NA attended the medical, but he would have certainly have interviewed the player - at length

and I believe he made a decision based on that. A players league stats. (apps.+goals ) PLUS ...a successful medical examination is

the " CV " ....in the football world.

 

I have worked in business for over 40 years....and interviewed hundreds of people and I can tell you that after a while you can tell what the person is like... after less than a minute. Don't ask me how ..intuition ? some sort of gut reaction ? ..it just come with practice. I found some " real gems " for employees , some of them with little / no experience and even others who might have been considered " past the best sale date "..by some.

 

Nigel Adkins has been player, psysio' and manager...for a long time. Don't you think he's learned to " read players " by now ?. I think that Fontaine " failed " on his attitude / mindset for the game, not a dodgy ankle.

Edited 25 August, 2011 by david in sweden

[Viking Warrior]

I have also heard that they no longer require players to cough like they did in the olde days.

[Trader]

When you consider that Leeds found Asa Hartford's hole in the heart problem donkey's years ago show that players' medicals have been pretty thorough for years.

[david in sweden]

I thought that our system had changed after we signed Charlie George for £400K in 1978 ( a huge sum in those days)

only for an old knee injury to flare up when he kicked the ball in his first match...and he was out for 8 months.

(READ CAREFULLY) all those who complain about David Connolly's shorter absences).

Charlie left Saints 2 years later having managed only 52 games which were sometime entertaining, but contained none of the " old Charlie George magic" that Lawrie Mac thought he was buying.

 

Unfortunately there was no continuity in the club to recall this when Rupert Lowe spent £3 million in 2002 (a huge sum - even today) on Agustin Delgado (younger fans need to read the sad history)...on the eve of appointing Gordon Strachan who was told that Delgado would be ready - after his back operation. He never was ... and Strachan picked the suffering Equadorian only in the direst emergencies but it didn't stop Delgado going to the 2002 World Cup and scoring a goal! Strange affair that one.

 

We made a shrewd decision when David Connolly was allowed to summer-train with our squad, got himself back in shape and eventaully became an occasional, but very important goals scorer. Didn't cost us a penny, signed him as a free transfer - and a good investment it was, too.

 

Fontaine's twice-operated, dodgy ankle was a good enough reason NOT to sign him..and we should only sign FIT players anyway.

Signing anyone with a bad injury history is a dubious thing at best, and a financial disaster in the end.

Edited 26 August, 2011 by david in sweden

[ericofarabia]

I have also heard that they no longer require players to cough like they did in the olde days.

 

Tsk ... another perk of the job gone.

[The9]

There's a vague overview of a Nottingham Forest medical from the BBC Sports Academy pages here, though it's designed for kids and a few years old judging by the pics... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/hi/sa/treatment_room/features/newsid_3083000/3083908.stm

 

Just checked the age of the page, it mentions Gary Fleming as Forest physio "for 3 years", according to his Practice website he was physio there from 2001-2007 which dates that page circa 2004/5. http://thegaryflemingpractice.co.uk/

 

Forest were in the Championship then, but the tests mentioned certainly aren't big on sports science. They've always been a bit old school at Forest though.

 

The Physioroom pretty much underlines the process though : http://www.physioroom.com/news/featured_stories/medicals.php

 

Another one here which mentions aerobic capacity, sprints and jump testing in addition to giving more details to the flexion testing of the joints and injury screening.

http://www.pponline.co.uk/node/42220

 

I'm surprised at how untechy it seems to be, but then maybe that's just what clubs are prepared to share. Interesting note about part of the purpose of the medical being to negotiate the price downwards...

Edited 26 August, 2011 by The9

[Willo]

Thanks for posting those links - very interesting. I suppose we'll never know whether the manager can veto the results of a medical (I.e the player fails a specific test/measurement, but the manager takes a gamble, or conversely, the player passes all physical tests, but the manager decides the player doesn't 'fit' in the squad).

[stevegrant]

Unfortunately there was no continuity in the club to recall this when Rupert Lowe spent £3 million in 2002 (a huge sum - even today) on Agustin Delgado (younger fans need to read the sad history)...on the eve of appointing Gordon Strachan who was told that Delgado would be ready - after his back operation. He never was ... and Strachan picked the suffering Equadorian only in the direst emergencies but it didn't stop Delgado going to the 2002 World Cup and scoring a goal! Strange affair that one.

Not true. When he arrived at the club, it was a knee injury that kept him out for the first 4-6 weeks, but that cleared up as expected. It was his back, in what I believe was a completely separate problem (although it's not unheard-of for a leg injury to cause future problems with the back), which caused him to miss most of the next 2 years or so.

[um pahars]

Not true. When he arrived at the club, it was a knee injury that kept him out for the first 4-6 weeks, but that cleared up as expected. It was his back, in what I believe was a completely separate problem (although it's not unheard-of for a leg injury to cause future problems with the back), which caused him to miss most of the next 2 years or so.

 

Seems such a long time ago now, but I was sure along with back issues it was his crocked knee that kept flaring up (plus didn't we forget his birthday which kept him on the treatment table?).