Will the police ever learn!

[Flyer]

Many of you will dismiss this out of hand, as would have I a few years ago, but;

 

I have seen too many errors of judgement from the police at football, to believe it is just incompetance. I now beleive that for whatever reason, in certain circumstances, they actively encourage trouble and create situations to make it happen.

 

Whether that is to flush out trouble makers or get the arrest figures up, I have no idea.

 

Thats what I said went I was at Millwall last year. We were 2-0 and had 10 men so we tried to leave 15 mins early, the police refused to let us onto the station and kept us right by where the millwall fans come out instead of keeping up 100 yards away. It was no surprise that it kicked off and it was 100% down to the filth.

 

They do it to justify more OT and try to stop cuts to the police.

It also why i think they stood by and watched the chavs loot for days before doing anything.

[Guan 2.0]

My thoughts exactly. Basically doing as little as possible to prevent trouble, so they can film all the guys who want to fight, whilst risking the safety of families and other fans who would like to be as far away from trouble as possible.

 

It's the guys that want to fight risking the safety of families and real fans. HTH.

[Amesbury Saint]

The answer as far as I can see is to build a permanent set of fences at the away end,in the car park. leave a gap at the boundary which would allow people to walk round but make it covered.

Park the away coaches inside the fenced area, if the fans have come by other than the official coaches then they are held in the ground or this compound until the coaches leave, now NC could charge parking for the coaches as well so its a double win. The Police and stewards would have time to assess the mood of the fans and then take a decision on when to open the gates, but the default is LOCK IN.

.

 

excellent points.

The club and Police need to sort this out. Yes there are fans from all clubs that are knobs, but the vast majority are not and the club and Police have a duty of care to them.

[vindaloo]

excellent points.

The club and Police need to sort this out. Yes there are fans from all clubs that are knobs, but the vast majority are not and the club and Police have a duty of care to them.

 

amd how much would this cost?

[ericb]

The answer as far as I can see is to build a permanent set of fences at the away end,in the car park. leave a gap at the boundary which would allow people to walk round but make it covered.

Park the away coaches inside the fenced area, if the fans have come by other than the official coaches then they are held in the ground or this compound until the coaches leave, now NC could charge parking for the coaches as well so its a double win. The Police and stewards would have time to assess the mood of the fans and then take a decision on when to open the gates, but the default is LOCK IN.

 

About time Southampton Police got crowd control sorted we've had home fans antagonised by filming them when nothing was happening, deployment of police dogs when the pitch invasion came from another stand and the dogs then withdrawn.

 

We had trouble at the FA Cup v skates we had trouble after the Yeovil game and yet we seem to have less policing and since they stopped closing the road dispersal of the home fans has been slower.

 

jesus man that's a little bit of a mentalist reaction to a little bit of handbags isn't it? ok the police got it wrong but fencing in all the away fans after the game by default is bit melodramatic and likely to incense people further.

 

I think the simple answer is do what they do normally, and don't let everyone out at the same time with no police presence outside when it's clearly going to kick off.

[Amesbury Saint]

amd how much would this cost?

10 weeks wages of one first team player?

[ringwood]

Well if you attended the game with your daugthers and got rained on by coins then maybe you'd see it differently, I've chosen to buy season tickets to attend all the games and as such the club and the police should look after as far as possible the safety of all fans home and away.

 

My suggestion of secure parking for the away coaches makes the policing and stewarding simpler, not every game would need the gates closed, but to have that facility permanently built would probably not be a great deal more than the temporary fence they erect, and as I said no doubt NC would charge for secure parking.

 

What you may call handbags is extremely unnerving to a 7 year old who has every right to enjoy her day out as much as any other fan, if the youngsters are prevented from developing a love for the game then football won't need to kill itself by higher wages and transfer fees it'll die because of its reputation which its still trying to shake off after that awful day at Hillsborough where the Police got it all wrong and that led to a disaster.

 

We all want the club to buy this player and that player, but when its suggested the club needs to invest in a simple form of protection for its fans from not only away fans but also from those amongst us who declare themselves Saints fans but are only to pleased to get involved in 'handbags' ,then hands go up in horror whats it gonna cost!

 

If you remove an opportunity then the DE don't have the chance to write articles about trouble after games which tarnishes the view of other readers about the club that Saints is a source of trouble in the town.

[70's Mike]

jesus man that's a little bit of a mentalist reaction to a little bit of handbags isn't it? ok the police got it wrong but fencing in all the away fans after the game by default is bit melodramatic and likely to incense people further.

 

I think the simple answer is do what they do normally, and don't let everyone out at the same time with no police presence outside when it's clearly going to kick off.

 

never been to fratton as an away supporter then?

 

and letting both sets of fans out at the same time is what they normally do, thing is that works with 150 from MK but not 3200 from West Ham or Brum

[chocco boxo]

I have really lost faith with Hampshires Police force at football matches. How come also we so many "lads" nowadays that want to start trouble?

[70's Mike]

I have really lost faith with Hampshires Police force at football matches. How come also we so many "lads" nowadays that want to start trouble?

 

success

[This Charming Man]

success

 

It's the complete opposite. We've far more lads started going since we dropped out of the Premiership.

[70's Mike]

It's the complete opposite. We've far more lads started going since we dropped out of the Premiership.

 

by success i mean winning games

[Pennyred]

I can only think that Hampshire Police have a hidden agenda?

Choice of -

1) They want to discredit football fans

2) They want the overtime

3) They want to test their 'riot techniques'

 

Having followed Saints (home and away) for many years, and having been kept in at many clubs - notably Pyortsmouth, Leicester and Millwall, I can't believe they still let the away fans out at the final whistle at St Marys.

I reckon the Police could be charged with inciting trouble?

Why doesn't the club INSIST the away fans (of certain clubs) be kept in like we are when on our travels??

 

But then, what do I know - I've only been a season ticket holder for 40 years.

[ericb]

never been to fratton as an away supporter then?

 

and letting both sets of fans out at the same time is what they normally do, thing is that works with 150 from MK but not 3200 from West Ham or Brum

 

yup many times, you? Can't say i can ever remember being in a fenced in holding area, more 'Ampshire's finest keeping us in the ground then moving us down GA slowly surrounded by them.

 

I really do think a "holding pen" for the coaches & away fans is a massive over reaction, pure knee jerkism at it's best

[ringwood]

Not a knee jerk at all, wondered before why the steel wall was built and then dismantled , the cost to erect and dismantle and transport would soon be recouped, the other thing is if they are held there then they are less likely to cause damage to the seating areas inside the ground which has to be a risk with holding them back inside the ground.

 

it avoids overcrowding as the area for them is

 

1. the ground seating area

2. the concourse

3. outside

 

The other benefit is for the average away fan to sit away from the 'handbags' , as the crowd leaves the ground .

 

The Old Bill and the stewards would then have little confrontation directly with the 'morons', and if the mood is ugly and the Old Bill and Stewards have misread the situation then its contained, of course this presupposes the Old Bill arn't seeking to justify OT or get arrest figures up.

 

The only other tweak to this would be to ban all away tickets without a Club organised travel coach, now that's a knee jerk and not something i'd want whereas being shut in the ground or a secure area and maybe 15 minutes wait holds no fear for me.

[rocknrollman no2]

The wall is owned by Hampshire Police not the club. hth.

Does this mean that the club get charged everytime the wall is used?

Perhaps as a cost saving measure by the club,it was decided we didnt need it?

[um pahars]

The wall is owned by Hampshire Police not the club. hth.

 

I think the Wall are owned by Chestnut Hill Ventures

[BILLY]

Sent my comments to the Hants Police regarding their (or rather) lack of action on Saturday. Also asking why they didn't keep the Millwall Thugs in and got this response.

 

Dear Mr Foot,

Thank you for your comments regarding the Football related incident on Saturday, 20th August 2011. Please be assured that there is a full investigation being carried out regarding both the way the match was policed and the subsequent disorder that ensued. Once this has been completed you should receive a response to your comments.

 

Kind regards

 

Etc

[Neil]

Bearing in mind the visits to SMS of Brum, Cardiff, Skates, Brighton, the police may well wish to "wise up" a bit ahead of those games.

 

While they may have had one approach at the start of the match, the inability to change that when it became obvious that things weren't right during the game was naive in the extreme.

 

Why do Saints fans continually have to put up with such ****e policing from the Hampshire boys? If we so much as sneezed at a London game the Met would give us a slap.

[um pahars]

 

Why do Saints fans continually have to put up with such ****e policing from the Hampshire boys? If we so much as sneezed at a London game the Met would give us a slap.

 

You're not wrong there.

 

I have always thought policing down here has always been on the "light touch" side compared to visits to London, Liverpool, Leeds etc.

 

Part of me thinks this isn't a bad thing as sometimes there is no need for the heavy handed approach of some forces, but they do need to be able to be flexible and adapt to each game and within each game and ramp up the robustness of their policing when required.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Sent my comments to the Hants Police regarding their (or rather) lack of action on Saturday. Also asking why they didn't keep the Millwall Thugs in and got this response.

 

Dear Mr Foot,

Thank you for your comments regarding the Football related incident on Saturday, 20th August 2011. Please be assured that there is a full investigation being carried out regarding both the way the match was policed and the subsequent disorder that ensued. Once this has been completed you should receive a response to your comments.

 

Kind regards

 

Etc

 

Acting Inspector Bradford I presume?

 

Wonder how many other fans followed and used that link?

 

As Neil says, and I pointed out in my comments to them, the Police are going to have to 'wise up'.

[doddisalegend]

Saw this on the beeb seems to suggest that the club took the desicion not to close the carpark.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-14628340

[JRM]

Saw this on the beeb seems to suggest that the club took the desicion not to close the carpark.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-14628340

 

the final paragraph of that sums this up, this was all about getting some more arrests, bumping up the banning order figures, and saying oh look how well we have done we have X number of bans issued this season = get budget for the next season, i genuinely think they want these incidents to occur sometimes to justify their jobs

[RedWillie]

the final paragraph of that sums this up, this was all about getting some more arrests, bumping up the banning order figures, and saying oh look how well we have done we have X number of bans issued this season = get budget for the next season, i genuinely think they want these incidents to occur sometimes to justify their jobs

 

You really think this with everything else that's been going on recently?? This was all about one wrong decision not to keep the Millwall lot in. Let's hope they learn for the visit of other tasty clubs.

This is not about arrests, overtime or banning orders at all.

[chocco boxo]

They got what they wanted today's Echo saying there has been arrests and more to follow!!! Old Bill = useless ***ts

[stu0x]

the final paragraph of that sums this up, this was all about getting some more arrests, bumping up the banning order figures, and saying oh look how well we have done we have X number of bans issued this season = get budget for the next season, i genuinely think they want these incidents to occur sometimes to justify their jobs

Unfortunately, if you actually know and understand how the administrative aspect of policing works, this logic is completely arse-about-face

[yorkie]

Saturday showed us why having home and away fans exiting in the same vacinity at the same time doesn't work! I have heard all the arguements about "human rights" and not being able to hold the away fans in for a period directly after the whistle. Strange how I can remember being held in at a number of grounds! So why not make it part of the sale of the ticket - it is made very clear that ...the ticket is for the game after which the purchaser will be held back for 30-mins whilst the area clears of home supporters! It is a contract - everyone will know in advance, and everyone wins. No special circumstances - ALL visiting fans good and bad get the same treatment. If they do not wish to abide by the terms and conditions attached to the sale of their matchday ticket - then they don't get in. It could be a first - football club makes it official to make it safer for home fans to leave the ground! Surely this would also be an excellent opportunity to seel more food and drink afetr the game to benefit the club too? If 30-mins is too excessive perhaps we could look at 15-20-mins.

It's not rocket science and whilst many on here could actually turn this around and say "It gives the Southampton Youff time to set up ambushes" I hasten to add they can do what they like but at least Saints fans can leave the area unmolested!

At Hartlepool last year there was limited egress from the stadium - by the time we got out the place was a graveyard for home fans! Perhaps the stewards should try that lettting them out through one exit half open?

[alehouseboys]

I have heard all the arguements about "human rights" and not being able to hold the away fans in for a period directly after the whistle.

 

The "human rights" thing was cited the last time we played the skates down here as a reason for not keeping them back in the ground...and had they done so avoiding the confrontation that then followed. Yet those "human rights" didn't count earlier in the day when the Police held the skates back for some considerable time at the train station (was that not against their "human rights" in the same way?) whilst they cleared the Southampton mobs waiting up in the parks for their arrival.

 

If it really is against "human rights" in Southampton then surely it must be the same all over the country?

[Ken Tone]

Whilst the 'holding pen' idea may be OTT, it is surely time the club considered building a permanent secure fence across the north car park ...with several large gates that can be open for many, maybe most, games but shut if trouble seems likely. Would allow the stewards and police to concentrate on dealing with the trouble instead of forming a human barrier between fans.. and /or allow order to be kept by fewer personnel. This is after all effectively what they do inside the ground.

 

Quite apart from the effect on trouble as such, in the long run this would even save money. Wages for people cost more than fences over time.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I'm aware that 'human rights' is often quoted in the context of that skate game. Who is it that actually stated that? The police or the club or is it, possibly, an urban myth? The reason I ask is that, surely, human rights should work 360 degrees, 24/7/366? Which then prompts the question, What about the human rights of those innocent fans who wish to leave the ground, and surrounding area, in a completely safe manner?

 

If it's ok to keep Saints fans back at other grounds then I feel what's sauce for the goose is good for the gander.

 

It's about time the Police faced this head on!

[Prince Jazzbo]

Whats the difference between keeping away fans in for 15/20 minutes and kettling. And Kettling is not deemed a breach of human rights, so why would keeping away fans in the ground.

 

On a lighter note, who thought that the Millwall fans trying to get across the netting looked like something out of Its A Knockout? I was expecting Stuart Hall and Eddie Waring to commentate.

[100%Red&White]

I'm aware that 'human rights' is often quoted in the context of that skate game. Who is it that actually stated that? The police or the club

 

It was certainly a talking point on here just after the game, would take a bit of going back and searching. I can understand the club wanting the diiiiirty cheating skates out of the stadium as soon as, so they didn't get the chance to start smashing the place up or any hamster-bladder-bellringers p*ssing on the seats.

[Sour Mash]

Unfortunately, if you actually know and understand how the administrative aspect of policing works, this logic is completely arse-about-face

 

Right, well please explain to the rest of us, why there was a massive difference in the policing for the Leeds and Millwall games, why the Northam was as under-policed as I have ever seen it, why the Northam car park wasn't closed off as it is for anyone who has remotely lively away support, why after Millwall played up in the ground were not contingent measures in place for them to do the same when they came out of the ground, why all this was the case for the visit of a club that probably has the worst reputation for football trouble ever? Tell us the reasoning behind it? As the only one I can see is a change of loads of arrests, banning orders etc in the future, figures will look impressive and help guarantee next year's funding. If it never kicked off it would be hard for police to continue to justify their vast budgets and resources.

[ringwood]

Whilst the 'holding pen' idea may be OTT, it is surely time the club considered building a permanent secure fence across the north car park ...with several large gates that can be open for many, maybe most, games but shut if trouble seems likely. Would allow the stewards and police to concentrate on dealing with the trouble instead of forming a human barrier between fans.. and /or allow order to be kept by fewer personnel. This is after all effectively what they do inside the ground.

 

Quite apart from the effect on trouble as such, in the long run this would even save money. Wages for people cost more than fences over time.

 

 

Think this sums up my thoughts exactly, simple and effective

[Thedelldays]

Whats the difference between keeping away fans in for 15/20 minutes and kettling. And Kettling is not deemed a breach of human rights, so why would keeping away fans in the ground.

 

On a lighter note, who thought that the Millwall fans trying to get across the netting looked like something out of Its A Knockout? I was expecting Stuart Hall and Eddie Waring to commentate.

to sooo many, it is

[stu0x]

Right, well please explain to the rest of us, why there was a massive difference in the policing for the Leeds and Millwall games, why the Northam was as under-policed as I have ever seen it, why the Northam car park wasn't closed off as it is for anyone who has remotely lively away support, why after Millwall played up in the ground were not contingent measures in place for them to do the same when they came out of the ground, why all this was the case for the visit of a club that probably has the worst reputation for football trouble ever? Tell us the reasoning behind it? As the only one I can see is a change of loads of arrests, banning orders etc in the future, figures will look impressive and help guarantee next year's funding. If it never kicked off it would be hard for police to continue to justify their vast budgets and resources.

I can't explain the reasoning behind the particular decisions that were made in this instance, because I have absolutely no special knowledge of them.

 

But I do know how and why Police budgets are set, how and why performance in the Police is measured, and how and why strategic and tactical decisions in public order situations are made in general. And based on those principals, the idea that the Police *want* disorder is total anathema.

 

But hey, you already know how it all works don't you!! Arrests = £££!!! If there was any danger at all you'd take any notice I'd happily explain why that makes no sense whatsoever.

[Turkish]

the final paragraph of that sums this up, this was all about getting some more arrests, bumping up the banning order figures, and saying oh look how well we have done we have X number of bans issued this season = get budget for the next season, i genuinely think they want these incidents to occur sometimes to justify their jobs

 

Very much so. Just look at the self congratulation after the Pompey arrests and sentances. Slapping themselves on the back with their convictions safe in the knowledge making examples of a few fence rattling fall guys justifed the cost and budget secured for another year. They loved it, they were almost hoping it would kick off. THe police even had a film crew following them around on the day FFS!!!

 

I agree with you that they want incidents to occur. Easy nickings, easy bannings and plenty of self backslapping when the arrests are made and convictions and bans handed out.

[Thedelldays]

im glad they let fans out at the same time........get to have a good "chat" with some away fans that way

[alehouseboys]

I'm aware that 'human rights' is often quoted in the context of that skate game. Who is it that actually stated that? The police or the club

 

Well, there you go...joint statement between club and Police regarding Millwall game...

 

 

The following statement is made after consultation with Hampshire Police, The Safety Officer and Safety Management Team at Southampton Football Club.

 

"The last time Southampton and Millwall met at St Mary’s was on 08 August 2009. A total of 2,242 Millwall fans attended the fixture, which ended in a 1 – 1 draw, and there was no disorder before, during or after the fixture.

 

In advance of this season’s match, Southampton Football Club and Hampshire Police assessed the fixture in keeping with normal practice, and the match was categorised as medium risk.

 

There were no reported incidents of disorder in the City before the game and both sets of supporters made their way to St Mary’s Stadium monitored by the Police and the City CCTV. However, during the game there were 7 ejections from the ground (1 home supporter and 6 away supporters for various breaches of ground regulations)

 

When Southampton scored on 18 minutes the temporary netting – introduced as an additional measure on the Millwall side of the permanent Northam segregation netting – was breached by a surge of volatile Millwall fans. At no time was the permanent segregation netting breached and Southampton Football Club are more than happy with the current segregation netting that is in place, which is similar to those in use at many if not most other stadiums in the country.

 

There was no intelligence suggesting that there would be any violence after the match and to have held supporters back without good cause would have meant impeding those supporter’s human rights. Having carefully considered the situation, taking into account there was no violence prior to the match, nor intelligence to suggest any pre planned disorder after; supporters were released on the conclusion of the fixture.

 

A closure of the stadium north car park closure was discussed; however, as the Police Cordon Trailers were not part of the pre match planning they were not available on the day. This will be reviewed for future fixtures and will be in place for any further visit from Millwall. The closure of the north car park often causes issues with home supporters, however, safety is of course paramount and if it is deemed necessary in future then it will be enforced.

 

Three Millwall supporters were arrested in the north car park post match and another in the City later that evening. A Police enquiry is ongoing and Southampton Football Club will assist Hampshire Police with evidence to follow up this incident with further arrests that we hope will lead to Football Banning Orders."

 

 

Millwall categorised "medium risk"...guffaw.

[Prince Jazzbo]

"The last time Southampton and Millwall met at St Mary’s was on 08 August 2009. A total of 2,242 Millwall fans attended the fixture, which ended in a 1 – 1 draw, and there was no disorder before, during or after the fixture.

 

So what happened up at the Old Fat Cat and the Giddy Bridge was a figment of everyones imagination.

[Thedelldays]

So what happened up at the Old Fat Cat and the Giddy Bridge was a figment of everyones imagination.

 

perhaps thats where the police were this season...?

[stockportsaint]

So what happened up at the Old Fat Cat and the Giddy Bridge was a figment of everyones imagination.

 

Probably not, but as it happened over a mile from the ground, it's probably deemed as not being "football-related". We all know that it was Millwall kicking off in a busy pub, but any arrests there would not be categorised as football-related as it happened away from the ground. In the same way that any arrests in any city centre boozer following an argument between two Saintsweb forum posters about whether Seaborne is sh*t or not wouldn't be classified as football-related.

[Sour Mash]

Well, there you go...joint statement between club and Police regarding Millwall game...

 

 

The following statement is made after consultation with Hampshire Police, The Safety Officer and Safety Management Team at Southampton Football Club.

 

"The last time Southampton and Millwall met at St Mary’s was on 08 August 2009. A total of 2,242 Millwall fans attended the fixture, which ended in a 1 – 1 draw, and there was no disorder before, during or after the fixture.

 

In advance of this season’s match, Southampton Football Club and Hampshire Police assessed the fixture in keeping with normal practice, and the match was categorised as medium risk.

 

There were no reported incidents of disorder in the City before the game and both sets of supporters made their way to St Mary’s Stadium monitored by the Police and the City CCTV. However, during the game there were 7 ejections from the ground (1 home supporter and 6 away supporters for various breaches of ground regulations)

 

When Southampton scored on 18 minutes the temporary netting – introduced as an additional measure on the Millwall side of the permanent Northam segregation netting – was breached by a surge of volatile Millwall fans. At no time was the permanent segregation netting breached and Southampton Football Club are more than happy with the current segregation netting that is in place, which is similar to those in use at many if not most other stadiums in the country.

 

There was no intelligence suggesting that there would be any violence after the match and to have held supporters back without good cause would have meant impeding those supporter’s human rights. Having carefully considered the situation, taking into account there was no violence prior to the match, nor intelligence to suggest any pre planned disorder after; supporters were released on the conclusion of the fixture.

 

A closure of the stadium north car park closure was discussed; however, as the Police Cordon Trailers were not part of the pre match planning they were not available on the day. This will be reviewed for future fixtures and will be in place for any further visit from Millwall. The closure of the north car park often causes issues with home supporters, however, safety is of course paramount and if it is deemed necessary in future then it will be enforced.

 

Three Millwall supporters were arrested in the north car park post match and another in the City later that evening. A Police enquiry is ongoing and Southampton Football Club will assist Hampshire Police with evidence to follow up this incident with further arrests that we hope will lead to Football Banning Orders."

 

 

Millwall categorised "medium risk"...guffaw.

Ha ha, what a laughable statement! Good to see the club and police covering each others backs, exactly what one would expect!

[Barry the Badger]

I do have some sympathy with the police. There are a lot of people on here with the mystical power of hindsight.

[um pahars]

I do have some sympathy with the police. There are a lot of people on here with the mystical power of hindsight.

 

I'll give you some foresight then.

 

Take extra care when we play Portsmouth, West Ham, Cardiff and Brum. Also might want to consider Bristol City as being potentially troublesome. After that, watch out for Boro, Forest & Leiciester. have a look at the amount of tickets they've each sold and if 1,500 -2,000+, then you will certainly have to make different arrangements than we did for Millwall at home.

 

Millwall brought a sizeable number down, they have what you might call a "reputation", there has been trouble with them down here in the past, there was trouble during the match and the result didn't go their way. I don't think you need hindisght to suggest it might have been better to close off the North Car Park after the match.

 

 

As for the bit about supporters' human rights, then someone in authority has lost the plot!!!!!!!

[Legod Third Coming]

You really think this with everything else that's been going on recently?? This was all about one wrong decision not to keep the Millwall lot in. Let's hope they learn for the visit of other tasty clubs.

This is not about arrests, overtime or banning orders at all.

 

You say that but I know some very sensible people who believe that the police have a policy of proving the government wrong over cuts...

[Sour Mash]

I do have some sympathy with the police. There are a lot of people on here with the mystical power of hindsight.

 

Yeah you'd never have thought Millwall might have kicked off would you, they're not really known for it and didn't give any hints with their behaviour during the game......

[Um Bongo]

What's the bet after all this fuss, the next time the 'north' car park is closed, people will moan and complain about it, like they usually do.

[Amesbury Saint]

 

 

As for the bit about supporters' human rights, then someone in authority has lost the plot!!!!!!!

 

exactly.

rather sad that someone in the Police approved such a statement.

 

Next time they are filming me (as someone who has never been involved or want to be involved in football violence) with a hand held camera 3 ft away I hope they consider my human rights first.

[alehouseboys]

I wonder if they considered the 'human rights' of the families caught up in the incidents by knowingly letting the moody Millwall crowd out at the same time last week?

 

I would think there were very few inside St Marys last Saturday that thought those nawty Londoners would walk quietly home...even if they hadn't been bubbling away for the past hour and half.