Markus' Tribute Flag

[Scudamore]

this is why we should get this flag done at a big game 1min 4 secs in look at ML and NC.

 

There allow it for a big game surely as there be enough stewards and police, i reckon we should do it for the game vs the skates.

 

And allow them to sing some sick songs about Markus? No thanks.

[Golden Balls]

I guess it coming out for the West Ham game was a no then. Nice

[Jones91]

All Saints day obviously...

[rick1976.4.38]

i think just mike should have the flag,not the club.after all it was meant to be a fan tribute,then it should be lifted above our heads just b4 kick off at every home game

[Whitey Grandad]

i think just mike should have the flag,not the club.after all it was meant to be a fan tribute,then it should be lifted above our heads just b4 kick off at every home game

 

Agreed. There's no point having a flag if it's never used.

[hamster]

Prow at the.madejski yesterday must be wondering why WE can't just u.dirk the bloody thing and have done with it. There's looked good but Iirc, ours is better.Can't we all just bombard the club with complaints and get this resolved either way?

[JustMike]

Prow at the.madejski yesterday must be wondering why WE can't just u.dirk the bloody thing and have done with it. There's looked good but Iirc, ours is better.Can't we all just bombard the club with complaints and get this resolved either way?

 

I honestly expected to see it at the West Ham game tbh, especially after the clubs reply of "...only for big games.." The lack of communication from them and their seemingly blatant disregard for what we have done has ****ed me off. I cant believe that it is just a paperwork issue now. Bloody good job we are top and playing well.

 

If anyone else wants to "enquire" as to the flags whereabouts please email Jordan Sibley

[trousers]

http://www.onlinegooner.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5207&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=f286f81437f084f820e1a38d2717dc64

 

The following conversation has been taken from RedAction website. This was them requesting a large flag for use at Highbury and shows how incredibly resistant the club were towards the idea

Resistance to Giant Flags

 

RA: “The Kop have a giant flag they use before every game. Can we have a giant flag before kick off?”

AFC: “No”

RA: “Why not?”

AFC: “Erm…..because of Health & Safety”

RA: “So did Islington council say than then?”

AFC: “Yeah! That’s right! Islington said we can’t have giant flags!”

RA: “Right!”

(next day)

RA: Hi is that Islington council? I’m calling from an Arsenal supporters group. We just wanted to know if you had any Health & Safety objections if we brought in giant flags for matches”

IC: “Giant flags? Not at all! Why would that be a Health & Safety issue? Other football team do it, don’t they?”

RA: “That’s what we thought. Thank you very much!”

(next day)

RA: “We spoke to Islington council yesterday and they say they have no objections to us using big flags. So can we use a Rocastle flag or maybe the ‘We Are The Arsenal’ flag in the North bank or Clock End?”

AFC: “Oh. Erm……no!”

RA: “Why not?”

AFC: “Because……we don’t want fans to complain of having their sight restricted by a big flag. They pay for their seats so they’re entitled to a proper view”

RA: “We’re not talking about flags over people’s heads for two hours. We’re talking about for thirty seconds as the players walk out so they can see the visual impact. This would look quality as it does on the continent or at Anfield!”

AFC: “We can’t allow it. The fans would object as they would feel dizzy and claustrophobic and we’d end up getting sued”

RA: “……You’re joking, right?”

AFC: “No. What if someone had a panic attack? We’d have to have every fan in the stand sign a disclaimer”

[trousers]

http://www.wsc.co.uk/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,73/func,view/catid,27/id,566825/

[JRM]

http://www.onlinegooner.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5207&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=f286f81437f084f820e1a38d2717dc64

 

The following conversation has been taken from RedAction website. This was them requesting a large flag for use at Highbury and shows how incredibly resistant the club were towards the idea

Resistance to Giant Flags

 

RA: “The Kop have a giant flag they use before every game. Can we have a giant flag before kick off?”

AFC: “No”

RA: “Why not?”

AFC: “Erm…..because of Health & Safety”

RA: “So did Islington council say than then?”

AFC: “Yeah! That’s right! Islington said we can’t have giant flags!”

RA: “Right!”

(next day)

RA: Hi is that Islington council? I’m calling from an Arsenal supporters group. We just wanted to know if you had any Health & Safety objections if we brought in giant flags for matches”

IC: “Giant flags? Not at all! Why would that be a Health & Safety issue? Other football team do it, don’t they?”

RA: “That’s what we thought. Thank you very much!”

(next day)

RA: “We spoke to Islington council yesterday and they say they have no objections to us using big flags. So can we use a Rocastle flag or maybe the ‘We Are The Arsenal’ flag in the North bank or Clock End?”

AFC: “Oh. Erm……no!”

RA: “Why not?”

AFC: “Because……we don’t want fans to complain of having their sight restricted by a big flag. They pay for their seats so they’re entitled to a proper view”

RA: “We’re not talking about flags over people’s heads for two hours. We’re talking about for thirty seconds as the players walk out so they can see the visual impact. This would look quality as it does on the continent or at Anfield!”

AFC: “We can’t allow it. The fans would object as they would feel dizzy and claustrophobic and we’d end up getting sued”

RA: “……You’re joking, right?”

AFC: “No. What if someone had a panic attack? We’d have to have every fan in the stand sign a disclaimer”

 

so your point is Arsenal had a board / safety officer as petty as Saints current one back in the days when they were at Highbury?

[JRM]

I honestly expected to see it at the West Ham game tbh, especially after the clubs reply of "...only for big games.." The lack of communication from them and their seemingly blatant disregard for what we have done has ****ed me off. I cant believe that it is just a paperwork issue now. Bloody good job we are top and playing well.

 

If anyone else wants to "enquire" as to the flags whereabouts please email Jordan Sibley

 

clearly the club just have no appetite for it and the token gesture back on the summer was just that, bit of a waste of money to be honest, which is a real shame.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Can I ask the same question again of Mike - what material is the flag made from and did it come with a fire certificate? If not, then it would appear that we will not be seeing that flag grace SMS at any time soon.

[trousers]

http://www.flaweb.org.uk/docs/specsafe/flags.php

 

Large Spectator Flags

Very large spectator flags being unveiled and then passed over the heads of spectators from one end of a stand to the other create something of a spectacle and keep spectators "entertained" prior to a match. However, the practice does raise some safety issues which need to be balanced against the entertainment provided.

The FLA is aware that the use of such flags is banned at some clubs, whereas at others their use is not only approved but the club also provides storage for what in some cases can be an extremely large flag.

The FLA considers the question of whether or not to allow the use of such flags is best determined locally in discussion between the club, the certifying authority, the police and the emergency services within the forum of the Safety Advisory Group. This will enable all relevant local circumstances including the design of the stadium, the size, fabric and intended use of the flag and any other safety or public order considerations to be taken into account.

Edited 24 October, 2011 by trousers

[trousers]

so your point is Arsenal had a board / safety officer as petty as Saints current one back in the days when they were at Highbury?

 

Just doing a Google hunt for any related info that might help to explain the club's position. That said, if it was a "health and safety" issue then why that wasn't established (by the club or otherwise), before the flag was purchased, seems like an obvious faux pas to me.

 

It would appear that the law was changed this year in that all flags need to be made from fire retardent material and certified as such upon purchase.

[trousers]

Is Mark Long still the head Safety Officer at SMS?

[Golden Balls]

Just doing a Google hunt for any related info that might help to explain the club's position. That said, if it was a "health and safety" issue then why that wasn't established (by the club or otherwise), before the flag was purchased, seems like an obvious faux pas to me.

 

It would appear that the law was changed this year in that all flags need to be made from fire retardent material and certified as such upon purchase.

 

Well very recently they said it was only going to be used for 'big games'. If there was a problem with the material, that would have been the time to say it.

[trousers]

Well very recently they said it was only going to be used for 'big games'. If there was a problem with the material, that would have been the time to say it.

 

Aye. You'd have thought so. We can probably rule that out then.

[Sour Mash]

I honestly expected to see it at the West Ham game tbh, especially after the clubs reply of "...only for big games.." The lack of communication from them and their seemingly blatant disregard for what we have done has ****ed me off. I cant believe that it is just a paperwork issue now. Bloody good job we are top and playing well.

 

If anyone else wants to "enquire" as to the flags whereabouts please email Jordan Sibley

I'm sure it will be down to a chap called Mark Long, Head of Security or something like that, the sort of bloke who "loves" football fans and is really receptive to their issues.

[Sour Mash]

Just doing a Google hunt for any related info that might help to explain the club's position. That said, if it was a "health and safety" issue then why that wasn't established (by the club or otherwise), before the flag was purchased, seems like an obvious faux pas to me.

 

It would appear that the law was changed this year in that all flags need to be made from fire retardent material and certified as such upon purchase.

You're missing the point anyway. SUrely its not even that the flag isn't being used, but there has been NO communication whatsoever from the club. I don't think people would mind so much if they got a fair, reasoned, detailed explanation. Also, I might have missed the detail somewhere, but how did the conversation go when it was agreed the club would hold onto the flag and regulate this use? How did the conversation go and who agreed it from either side?

[The9]

The key here is to (somehow) get the flag back and start taking it to away games, where it might at least occasionally get an outing.

[JustMike]

Can I ask the same question again of Mike - what material is the flag made from and did it come with a fire certificate? If not, then it would appear that we will not be seeing that flag grace SMS at any time soon.

 

It came with the fire cert, otherwise we wouldnt have seen it at the ML memorial match either.

[JustMike]

I'm sure it will be down to a chap called Mark Long, Head of Security or something like that, the sort of bloke who "loves" football fans and is really receptive to their issues.

 

yep that's the chap. I met him before the flag was made but Jordan Sibley is the contact guy.

[JustMike]

so just to clarify, the flag meets all fire regs and is made from the proper fire retardant material and came with the certificate. The last contact I had from the club on this was that due to the significant amount of paper work involved before every match to get the safety certificate, the flag would only be used at big games and special occasions (eg memorial match). Since then we have had a sell out (West Ham game) so I think its safe to assume that the "big game" bit is ******.

[JustMike]

clearly the club just have no appetite for it and the token gesture back on the summer was just that, bit of a waste of money to be honest, which is a real shame.

 

and a lot of time!

[Stu Man Do]

I may be being Thick but whats to stop the club at least draping it over block 1-3 whilst they are closed it would get alot of viewing on the tv that way as well due to the current camera positions.

[squiggly_dan]

I think you are all missing the point here - when the club allows the flag to be used, what happens then?

 

It is surely up to us as fans to coordinate moving the flag from storage (from memory it weighs around 33kg), setting up prior to the game, ensuring a successful display, and packing away again?

 

I would expect it would take around 10 people walking the flag across the stands to ensure it remains straight - I remember reading about a Sunderland flag 15x10m which they struggled to control in the wind, and which became twisted as the top half moved faster than the bottom. Also, check the first 10 seconds of the Saints Player Reading highlights - they struggle with 6 people holding a flag half the size!

 

So who wants to volunteer? Once we have sufficient numbers, we can take a clear proposal to the club, showing we are serious about ensuring safety while displaying the flag. People would need to be available a number of hours before the game to perform a dry run, and coordinate with Police/Stewards as necessary. They would also need to be prepared to miss the start of the game so the flag can be packed away and returned to a safe place in the stands.

 

It appears to me that although the club have been particularly crap at communicating information to Mike, they are basically saying that they are too busy to complete the paperwork necessary to have the flag displayed at every game, but they would be prepared to do it for the occasional outing. If we can arrange a display that is well received and motivates fans and players, maybe they might be prepared to do it more often!

 

My suggestion would be to try and organise this for Peterborough, as I am assuming it will be the "All Saint's Day" for this year, seeing that it is on All Saint's Day itself! I know some will have reservations as the day is designed to remember all Saints lost in the past year, but I'm sure that fans unable to make the Memorial game would be grateful for the opportunity to pay their respects.

[trousers]

so just to clarify, the flag meets all fire regs and is made from the proper fire retardant material and came with the certificate. The last contact I had from the club on this was that due to the significant amount of paper work involved before every match to get the safety certificate, the flag would only be used at big games and special occasions (eg memorial match). Since then we have had a sell out (West Ham game) so I think its safe to assume that the "big game" bit is ******.

 

Would it be worth getting in touch with a few other clubs whose fans have a giant flag at every game? They may have found a way to streamline the 'per match' certificate paperwork with the authorities in their region. Southampton FC might be genuinely under the impression that the paperwork is cumbersome but unaware how other clubs might have overcome this. For example, some clubs may have negotiated a season long certificate with their local authorities - a precident that Saints could them use to go back to our local authorities with.

 

As I say, saints might be genuinely under the impression it's a pain in the arse when in fact it can be overcome.

[dune]

Personally I think the club have treated Mike appallingly.

 

We might have more money now, and we might be doing well on the pitch, but I think the way fans are treated is the worst it has ever been.

 

It all seems such a long way away from the Dell days when people at the club were so helpful.

[Toadhall Saint]

Personally I think the club have treated Mike appallingly.

 

We might have more money now, and we might be doing well on the pitch, but I think the way fans are treated is the worst it has ever been.

 

It all seems such a long way away from the Dell days when people at the club were so helpful.

 

Different era.

[dune]

Different era.

 

So how come Derby and Reading can have their flag?

 

It's not too much trouble for them to organise it.

 

Cortese doesn't mind going that extra mile to debit my account for a f/cking booking fee.

[Pennyred]

For starters the club could at least allow the flag onto the pitch before kick-off.

Leicester had a giant shirt which was carried out and held by six or eight youngsters. Folding up the flag was supervised by an adult.

It would be a great opportunity for young Saints fans to get on to the pitch, perhaps as much kudos as being a club mascot? Less embarrassing than kicking that stupid ball.

Most people who funded this flag have never seen it.

I have - it's impressive - should at least get out onto the pitch.

[JustMike]

I think you are all missing the point here - when the club allows the flag to be used, what happens then?

 

It is surely up to us as fans to coordinate moving the flag from storage (from memory it weighs around 33kg), setting up prior to the game, ensuring a successful display, and packing away again?

 

I would expect it would take around 10 people walking the flag across the stands to ensure it remains straight - I remember reading about a Sunderland flag 15x10m which they struggled to control in the wind, and which became twisted as the top half moved faster than the bottom. Also, check the first 10 seconds of the Saints Player Reading highlights - they struggle with 6 people holding a flag half the size!

 

So who wants to volunteer? Once we have sufficient numbers, we can take a clear proposal to the club, showing we are serious about ensuring safety while displaying the flag. People would need to be available a number of hours before the game to perform a dry run, and coordinate with Police/Stewards as necessary. They would also need to be prepared to miss the start of the game so the flag can be packed away and returned to a safe place in the stands.

 

It appears to me that although the club have been particularly crap at communicating information to Mike, they are basically saying that they are too busy to complete the paperwork necessary to have the flag displayed at every game, but they would be prepared to do it for the occasional outing. If we can arrange a display that is well received and motivates fans and players, maybe they might be prepared to do it more often!

 

My suggestion would be to try and organise this for Peterborough, as I am assuming it will be the "All Saint's Day" for this year, seeing that it is on All Saint's Day itself! I know some will have reservations as the day is designed to remember all Saints lost in the past year, but I'm sure that fans unable to make the Memorial game would be grateful for the opportunity to pay their respects.

 

this is the problem though. The impression I have is that they dont like any "outside involvement" everything is done on the quiet with little or no communication. Even if we went to them with this idea 1) you would be waiting along time for a responce, if you even get one at all. and 2) They would welcome it initially with open arms but then something would prevent it happening (paperwork in this case!)

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

so just to clarify, the flag meets all fire regs and is made from the proper fire retardant material and came with the certificate

 

Hahaha, you said retard.

[trousers]

Maybe it should have been called a 'banner' rather than a 'flag'? The club seem to take more interest in banners.... ;-)

 

officialsaints Saints FC

Seen the Saints lampost banners around the city? We will be running a competition next week where you can win one! Together We Stand!

5 minutes ago

[Golden Balls]

So we've had 3 big home games now (Leeds, West Ham, Brighton) with no flag. Seems it will never happen

[Saint Garrett]

Seems very odd that they would let it be made, knowing how much effort went into it, for it to just go into oblivion. When were they thinking of using it ? Just the ML Trophy ? Seems pointless to me