Southampton v Liverpool (Cruise Wars)

[Guan 2.0]

Southampton has attracted considerable investment in its port and cruise businesses over the last few years. Carnival have set up a massive office in the City, and the container port was taken over a few years ago by middle-eastern investors, and is shortly to be extended. We didn't get grants, and the investment has been funded privately. I think you are a bit ignorant of the facts.

 

Umm, my father is an executive at DP world, and I am kept well up to date with developments at the docks and the cruise terminal. Thanks for assuming though. Go back and re read my post you'll see I very specifically said

 

they need to improve the city, attract new investement, and not just rely on the fact that southampton is near somewhere nice (The New Forest)

 

Notice I said city, and not cruise terminal/docks. I think you are a bit ignorant of the facts.

 

It's possibly why I'm so angry at the Nimby posers who shut down the Dibden bay project (and campaigned for the jobs and improvements to go to Felixstowe, lets not forget!)

[bridge too far]

I've never been on a cruise and I'm never likely too so I don't know the answer to this question:

 

Do cruise ship passengers regularly visit the city from which they embark/finally disembark?

 

Or do they just arrive at the docks / go straight back home?

[spyinthesky]

Umm, my father is an executive at DP world, and I am kept well up to date with developments at the docks and the cruise terminal. Thanks for assuming though. Go back and re read my post you'll see I very specifically said

 

they need to improve the city, attract new investement, and not just rely on the fact that southampton is near somewhere nice (The New Forest)

 

Notice I said city, and not cruise terminal/docks. I think you are a bit ignorant of the facts.

 

It's possibly why I'm so angry at the Nimby posers who shut down the Dibden bay project (and campaigned for the jobs and improvements to go to Felixstowe, lets not forget!)

 

Guan

Out of interest does your Dad see the deal between DP World (51% owners of the container terminal) and ABP (49%) being extended beyond the current term which is due to expire in the next 10 yrs or so?

Rumour is that now DPW have sorted out their cash flow problems they will concentrate on developing Thames Gateway to the detriment of Soton

Felixstowe is expanding, and there are other plans for increased container capacity at Harwich, Liverpool and Bristol so the NIMBYS who opposed Dibden Bay development (mostly from the Waterside area) who said 'Dibden bay is an area of outstanding natural beauty(!!!!)' and 'We dont need jobs in this area'(!!!) may well reflect on their attitude in years to come.

Also there is a question mark against the motives of P&O Ports (who were the 51% shareholders of the container terminal at the time) who may well have had one eye on their project on the Thames (subsequently taken over by DPW) and didnt want Dibden bay to proceed

[spyinthesky]

I've never been on a cruise and I'm never likely too so I don't know the answer to this question:

 

Do cruise ship passengers regularly visit the city from which they embark/finally disembark?

 

A fair proportion will stay in Hotels/B & B's in and around the city prior to embarking

 

They tend to shoot off straight after arriving but there is a local tourist initiative in place to try to get them back for short breaks

[TopGun]

The role of DPW is an interesting one as spy highlights. There is no doubt that they had cash flow issues until very recently and may still be suffering. As far as Thames Gateway is concerned their plan is that it will be a bespoke logistical hub for importers and distributors and will be built as such with direct access to the Midlands and beyond so definitely a threat to other ports if it comes off. I have been involved with the consenting of a power plant at Thames Gateway (a 900MW CCGT called the Gateway Energy Centre) that gained permission at the start of August so things are happening there.

 

I fully agree with the points about Dibden Bay also. Soton Council look to have missed out there by not backing it sufficiently.

[buctootim]

Do cruise ship passengers regularly visit the city from which they embark/finally disembark?

 

Or do they just arrive at the docks / go straight back home?

 

Over a million passengers a year embark and disembark at Southampton. Even if only 20% stay one night in a local hotel and eat out once thats probably £30m value to the cities economy in addition to ther docks based employment and all the local companies supplying food, drinks etc.

[spyinthesky]

The role of DPW is an interesting one as spy highlights. There is no doubt that they had cash flow issues until very recently and may still be suffering. As far as Thames Gateway is concerned their plan is that it will be a bespoke logistical hub for importers and distributors and will be built as such with direct access to the Midlands and beyond so definitely a threat to other ports if it comes off. I have been involved with the consenting of a power plant at Thames Gateway (a 900MW CCGT called the Gateway Energy Centre) that gained permission at the start of August so things are happening there.

 

I fully agree with the points about Dibden Bay also. Soton Council look to have missed out there by not backing it sufficiently.

 

TopGun

I hold no brief with SCC but to be fair they were the only local organisation, apart from Chamber of Commerce/Business Soton etc who put their head above the parapet and were loudly castigated from within and without the city for supporting the scheme

 

As an aside it was your old friend Jolly Lord Prescott (humble John at the time) who had the power to overide the Inspectors (very tight) decision not to allow the Dibden Bay scheme to proceed.

 

He was also the Minister who OK'd the Liverpool Cruise Terminal Grant, although to be fair to him he probably hadnt realised there would be a change of use put in so quickly

[pap]

Pap

Liverpool is a great place to visit, provided you stay within the central area. Beyond this is not so pleasant

 

However much of the recent investment for improvements has come from Europe (Objective One) and the NWDA. Between them billions of pounds has been poured in the area to help build and maintain museums, provide a conference centre, new roads, the cruise terminal, a ferry terminal, etc etc.

 

Quite a bit has been wasted as well

 

Oh and approx £7m was given to Liverpool FC to develop a new stadium at Stanley Park

 

This has yet to happen although there seems to be a campaign not to pay the money back as, apparently, it's not the fault of LFC that they cant afford to progress the stadium

 

You may argue that all this grant aid money is fair enough

 

However if only a small proportion of this money had been available down here how much more attractive the city and the waterfront would be.

 

In truth however the 'ease to the eye' is of little consequence to cruise ship company's otherwise why would Dover, Harwich and Tilbury and, arguably Southampton, have made their mark as cruise turnround ports.

 

The real argument here is Liverpool being given a massive amount of free money to be spent for a specific purpose (ie calling cruises only) and then seeking to change the rules more or less immediately

 

As has been said by many people, if Liverpool was so confident of success let them finance the deal themselves then everyone is playing off a level playing field.

 

Of course this wont happen and, to be fair, there are some people in Liverpool questioning this ongoing reliance on grant aid for 'prestigious' projects when there are significant social issues within the city to resolve.

 

As someone who has lived in Liverpool since 1994, I've seen the improvement first-hand. It really did need to be improved too, and many parts still do.

 

I know that my fellow Sotonians will be up in arms about the amount of money that Liverpool has got, and will be miffed that it is going for the cruise business. When I first moved here, I was struck by the differences between the two cities. Whole streets boarded up. Urban decay that makes Newtown look like gentry. A huge factor in Liverpool's decline was the advent of containerisation. A massive improvement in process that effectively made Liverpool's docks obsolete, along with all the jobs that went with it. In my view, Liverpool, like a lot of Northern cities, needed and rightly got regeneration after being neglected for decades.

 

The South fared much better in that time. Even now, in general upkeep, Southampton is a better looking city. More space, better quality houses, more greenery, less urban decay - but so much less to see and do. Like you say, Liverpool is a great place to visit. And that's what the cruise business is all about really. Interesting places to visit.

 

Public money gets handed out all the time, and while I take your point that the funds were provided for a specific purpose, and Liverpool is immediately trying to play a fast one, that's not really why people are up in arms. Let me ask you a question. Would your objection to competition from Liverpool be nullified if the Peel Group ( worth £6bn ) gave the money ( £10M ) back?

 

I think they could easily afford it.

[Guan 2.0]

It's amazing how an utter sh/thole can look ok from a distance.

 

Which means that Southampton is screwed. It can't even do it from a distance.

 

Oh Stanley, I'd point out the whole capital of culture thing, or indeed direct you towards the contrast in results for a simple google result (visit Southampton and Visit Liverpool):

1st Result: http://www.visitliverpool.com/

3rd Result: http://liverpool.gov.uk/leisure-parks-and-events/information-for-tourists/cruise-visits-to-liverpool/

 

1st result: http://www.visit-southampton.co.uk/

I couldn't see any cruise ship links on the first page! Very lazy doesn't take a lot to engineer search results.

 

 

(waits for sarcastic/unintrested reply). But I know you're just a loveable troll. Like an old small, yapping dog, who people don't pet because it will just fart on them. Toodles.

[spyinthesky]

As someone who has lived in Liverpool since 1994, I've seen the improvement first-hand. It really did need to be improved too, and many parts still do.

 

I know that my fellow Sotonians will be up in arms about the amount of money that Liverpool has got, and will be miffed that it is going for the cruise business. When I first moved here, I was struck by the differences between the two cities. Whole streets boarded up. Urban decay that makes Newtown look like gentry. A huge factor in Liverpool's decline was the advent of containerisation. A massive improvement in process that effectively made Liverpool's docks obsolete, along with all the jobs that went with it. In my view, Liverpool, like a lot of Northern cities, needed and rightly got regeneration after being neglected for decades.

The South fared much better in that time. Even now, in general upkeep, Southampton is a better looking city. More space, better quality houses, more greenery, less urban decay - but so much less to see and do. Like you say, Liverpool is a great place to visit. And that's what the cruise business is all about really. Interesting places to visit.

 

Public money gets handed out all the time, and while I take your point that the funds were provided for a specific purpose, and Liverpool is immediately trying to play a fast one, that's not really why people are up in arms. Let me ask you a question. Would your objection to competition from Liverpool be nullified if the Peel Group ( worth £6bn ) gave the money ( £10M ) back?

 

I think they could easily afford it.

 

Pap

I think the last bit is all people really want

Pay back the grant money and all is fair in love and (cruise) war.

However the whole £17m should really be paid back not the £5+ million suggested

Peel must be laughing up their sleeves at this as they get the lions share of cruise ship revenue due to their high River Dues

There is the prospect of more ships coming to Liverpool and they will probably benefit more than most for little or no outlay

[alehouseboys]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14547088

 

"And, crucially, there was nothing to look at - nothing to even slightly tempt the eye. The new landscape wasn't concerned about the visual. Or if it was, the visual was only important inside in the atrium where the escalators led to the food court.

 

All you could see was a seemingly endless straggle of gigantic, windswept surface car parks, multi-storey car parks clad in brick and given pitched roofs in case anyone thought they were modern, huge windowless sheds. One with a giant sign on reading "LEISURE WORLD"."

 

 

Owen Hatherley (born 24 July 1981 in Southampton, UK) is a British writer and journalist based in London who writes primarily on architecture, politics and culture.

 

He would appear to agree with you.

 

My dad (who sometimes posts on here) has always moaned about Southampton not having a skyline.

 

And I'd agree with the sentiments about the Leisure World area. An out-of-town retail park in the middle of the city centre.

 

All the worst bits of Americana transplanted into the heart of the city.

 

Generations of my family have been dockers, unfortunately things had changed by the time I would have been able to follow in their footsteps but it remains something most famously associated with this city and I'll support anything that keeps it that way.

 

But noone could reasonably argue that Southampton offered more than Liverpool for visitors off the ships. The Scousers can boast a far more interesting and instantly recognisable skyline upon arrival, the only thing that catches the eye as you enter Southampton Water are the towering chimneys of Fawley Oil Refinery (and if you glance right the Spinnaker on portsea island).

 

 

The ships also dock immediately alongside the city there, with all the things Liverpool has to offer right on the doorstep. Here visitors have to jump into taxis and then face a drive through the docks and probably often straight out of Southampton and off somewhere else. There's very little, unless you like shopping, to keep them in the city.

 

Southampton really needs to get a bit more imaginative with new buildings and with what it can offer...Liverpool's quite a good example actually!

[Joesaint]

Liverpool looks much better mainly because of the extra money they get re-developing the city, I actually feel Southampton has more potential, with watermark west key (next to the walls), Cultural quarter (which I actually think looks much better), Spitfire tribute on its way as well as the New Forest, Salisbury, Winchester, and Portsmouth close as well as London we offer a much better location.

 

Regardless I do believe in competition but on a level playing field, this grant was given with specific clauses for a reason. If they want to use it for turnaround business and it is finantially viable then they can pay back the money. Dident Fred Alson cruises pull out of Liverpool the the tides/unsafe sailing or something?

[Joesaint]

[Joesaint]

http://uk.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTf2jbN11O7BEAcbpWBQx./SIG=12gvnvrvs/EXP=1314760795/**http%3a//farm1.static.flickr.com/56/141304038_e4ba1d09a4_b.jpg

 

 

A photo, WOW!!!!!!!

[alehouseboys]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14547088

 

"And, crucially, there was nothing to look at - nothing to even slightly tempt the eye. The new landscape wasn't concerned about the visual. Or if it was, the visual was only important inside in the atrium where the escalators led to the food court.

 

All you could see was a seemingly endless straggle of gigantic, windswept surface car parks, multi-storey car parks clad in brick and given pitched roofs in case anyone thought they were modern, huge windowless sheds. One with a giant sign on reading "LEISURE WORLD"."

 

 

Owen Hatherley (born 24 July 1981 in Southampton, UK) is a British writer and journalist based in London who writes primarily on architecture, politics and culture.

 

He would appear to agree with you.

 

Liverpool looks much better mainly because of the extra money they get re-developing the city, I actually feel Southampton has more potential, with watermark west key (next to the walls), Cultural quarter (which I actually think looks much better), Spitfire tribute on its way as well as the New Forest, Salisbury, Winchester, and Portsmouth close as well as London we offer a much better location.

 

Regardless I do believe in competition but on a level playing field, this grant was given with specific clauses for a reason. If they want to use it for turnaround business and it is finantially viable then they can pay back the money. Dident Fred Alson cruises pull out of Liverpool the the tides/unsafe sailing or something?

 

But if we're talking about keeping visitors in our city, keeping them occupied, spending money and leaving impressed (I'm not interested in towns nearby) then we're behind Liverpool. The plans you mention for Southampton have been on the drawing board for many years like many other schemes that either disappear without trace or slowly get scaled down. I wont hold my breath.

[TopGun]

 

The ships also dock immediately alongside the city there, with all the things Liverpool has to offer right on the doorstep. Here visitors have to jump into taxis and then face a drive through the docks and probably often straight out of Southampton and off somewhere else. There's very little, unless you like shopping, to keep them in the city.

 

Southampton really needs to get a bit more imaginative with new buildings and with what it can offer...Liverpool's quite a good example actually!

 

However that photo of Liverpool shows a fairly small cruise ship. Large ones can't get that far up the Mersey.

 

The Liverpool cruise ship terminal proposed would be further out up towards Seaforth and Bootle I think. Which is an equivalent of Millbrook at Soton Docks.

[TopGun]

TopGun

I hold no brief with SCC but to be fair they were the only local organisation, apart from Chamber of Commerce/Business Soton etc who put their head above the parapet and were loudly castigated from within and without the city for supporting the scheme

 

As an aside it was your old friend Jolly Lord Prescott (humble John at the time) who had the power to overide the Inspectors (very tight) decision not to allow the Dibden Bay scheme to proceed.

 

He was also the Minister who OK'd the Liverpool Cruise Terminal Grant, although to be fair to him he probably hadnt realised there would be a change of use put in so quickly

 

Prescott was indeed involved although not the only one. If there had been more support from SCC and others in the area it might have made a difference with regard to Dibden Bay however. It was shot down by NIMBYs who outshouted the supporters.

 

Soton won't prosper without new commercial shipping developments, both cruise and cargo. The modifications made recently to the railway tunnel at Soton and along the rail route to the West Coast Main Line now make it possible for the new larger containers being introduced across the world to take that route by rail but it's no good if the infrastructure is not improved at the docks itself as other ports will build better overall facilities and distribution links. The good retired people of the New Forest will never back that so Sotonians have to fight better for new development - for jobs and prosperity in the city.

Edited 30 August, 2011 by TopGun

[spyinthesky]

 

The ships also dock immediately alongside the city there, with all the things Liverpool has to offer right on the doorstep. Here visitors have to jump into taxis and then face a drive through the docks and probably often straight out of Southampton and off somewhere else. There's very little, unless you like shopping, to keep them in the city.

 

Southampton really needs to get a bit more imaginative with new buildings and with what it can offer...Liverpool's quite a good example actually!

 

However that photo of Liverpool shows a fairly small cruise ship. Large ones can't get that far up the Mersey.

 

The Liverpool cruise ship terminal proposed would be further out up towards Seaforth and Bootle I think. Which is an equivalent of Millbrook at Soton Docks.

[spyinthesky]

However that photo of Liverpool shows a fairly small cruise ship. Large ones can't get that far up the Mersey.

 

The Liverpool cruise ship terminal proposed would be further out up towards Seaforth and Bootle I think. Which is an equivalent of Millbrook at Soton Docks.

 

No thats it

 

Big ships can and do stop there

However it is just a Landing Stage at the moment with a tiny passenger facility

The challenge will be to build a proper turnround terminal and there are rumours of a £23m investment

More Grants anyone|?

[pap]

Pap

I think the last bit is all people really want

Pay back the grant money and all is fair in love and (cruise) war.

However the whole £17m should really be paid back not the £5+ million suggested

Peel must be laughing up their sleeves at this as they get the lions share of cruise ship revenue due to their high River Dues

There is the prospect of more ships coming to Liverpool and they will probably benefit more than most for little or no outlay

 

Still, even the whole amount is comparative peanuts. That would be the best solution in my view. As I said, they can afford it.

 

Personally, I think competition would be a good thing for both cities. Southampton would be forced to up its game and in the process, provide more stuff to do - which would benefit everyone. There is room enough for both - completely different parts of the country - serving an expanding market.

[TopGun]

 

No thats it

 

Big ships can and do stop there

However it is just a Landing Stage at the moment with a tiny passenger facility

The challenge will be to build a proper turnround terminal and there are rumours of a £23m investment

More Grants anyone|?

 

In that case, Soton has to work very hard! Not just against Liverpool, but to improve its own offering!

[Guan 2.0]

As part of my course (Politics and Pr at University of Liverpool), I went on parliamentary placement and a placement in whitehall. Whilst there I learnt that local Goverment and organisations in Hampshire, not just Southampton, have a very questionable attitude whe it comes to grants and funds. Which is why devon and cornawall, who are the number one subsidised area in the country, are known for their excellent campaigns, whereas our region still (largely) has a 'Powerpoint and Phonecall attitude'. A bit like a post-war cash poor land rich widow who can't admit she needs help!

[spyinthesky]

If you ever speak to local politicians they will tell you that it all the area south of the M40 (apart from Cornwall and London) get in grants is scraps.

 

Almost all EC and Uk Govt grants go north

 

Merseyside has received £2.5b of grants in the past 10 yrs some of it to organise chess competitions, failed boat shows, training 250 hairsdressers.

 

Other money has been wasted

[Wade Garrett]

Umm, my father is an executive at DP world, and I am kept well up to date with developments at the docks and the cruise terminal. Thanks for assuming though. Go back and re read my post you'll see I very specifically said

 

they need to improve the city, attract new investement, and not just rely on the fact that southampton is near somewhere nice (The New Forest)

 

Notice I said city, and not cruise terminal/docks. I think you are a bit ignorant of the facts.

 

It's possibly why I'm so angry at the Nimby posers who shut down the Dibden bay project (and campaigned for the jobs and improvements to go to Felixstowe, lets not forget!)

 

No, you said Southampton needs new investors and relies on being near the New Forest. I pointed out a couple of major recent investors in the City, that have nothing to do with the New Forest. Private investment is pretty difficult to come by at the moment, and we can't spunk off of any grants board going like Liverpool do.

 

I'm not too sure about your claim about your father either.

[Wade Garrett]

Prescott was indeed involved although not the only one. If there had been more support from SCC and others in the area it might have made a difference with regard to Dibden Bay however. It was shot down by NIMBYs who outshouted the supporters.

 

Soton won't prosper without new commercial shipping developments, both cruise and cargo. The modifications made recently to the railway tunnel at Soton and along the rail route to the West Coast Main Line now make it possible for the new larger containers being introduced across the world to take that route by rail but it's no good if the infrastructure is not improved at the docks itself as other ports will build better overall facilities and distribution links. The good retired people of the New Forest will never back that so Sotonians have to fight better for new development - for jobs and prosperity in the city.

 

You make an excellent point. The container port turns ships around quicker than the vast majority of European ports, but speed alone is not enough. DP World are constructing a major new container port in London, so there is no doubt that Southampton needs investment in order to compete in the future. A new berth, and more cranes, will hopefully be operational shortly.

[spyinthesky]

Wade

Unfortunately heard the other day that the plan to expand the container berth by upgrading berths 201/2 have been put back a year or two because a rival port operator ie Hutchinson (who own Felixstowe & Harwich) complained about the environmental assessment and the Govt body responsible for this is sitting on its hands somewhere looking at the paperwork

 

If the OK is eventually given the marine work can only be undertaken in certain months of the year due to migrating fish (bloody Pompey fans spoil everything for us!!!!)

[Guan 2.0]

No, you said Southampton needs new investors and relies on being near the New Forest. I pointed out a couple of major recent investors in the City, that have nothing to do with the New Forest. Private investment is pretty difficult to come by at the moment, and we can't spunk off of any grants board going like Liverpool do.

 

I'm not too sure about your claim about your father either.

 

Ok Wade, I'll bite. Here is what I said, word for word. I've highlighted the same bits again, just to make it far more obvious, notice how I differentiate the city and docks just like in the original post, and in my reply to you. Or in the posts where I laid out the links to attractions in both cities. Or the photo's of both cities. Or most anything I've written on this thread. We are talking about several different things. As I said earlier, I'm talking about ways to attract people in to southampton not just from a cruise, not something based dockside. One company (itself cruise based) won't make a difference. Will people go to the Carnival offices if they visit the city before or after their cruise? No. So why mention it in the context i had laid out?

 

What would you recommend to someone as a good day out in southampton, honestly? Excluding Southampton FC. Not saying there isn't anything, but what there is is barely promoted, and hardly A grade.

 

As I pointed out earlier, Soton hasn't even steered seraches on google to the right pages (engineering results is pretty basic. Most people with basic knoweldge of computing could pick it up easy, and any post grad with PR training should know how). It could be a two week internship task. Wouldn't cost a penny. But again, a pattern of joined up thinking/planning would be required! Oh and Soton pages are

 

And even dockside/cruise sites don't enter the public imagination in the same way as the (non industrial) Albert Dock. Oh and thanks for the lesson on grants and private investment, I could of saved myself 3 years and a BA learning all about that crazy stuff, including aforementioned stints in Westminster/Whitehall. But Hampshire as a whole had (in 2009/2010) a very poor attitude to putting together bids. Seriously, some of the stuff (alledgedly I spoke to people who had seen the bids, I didn't see them myself) looked like something of a secondary school clipart tutorial

 

And yes my father is now an exec at DP world, after being head hunted for his work with ABP and then SCT. But believe it or don't. Oh, and to the Spyinthesky, he thinks if DP world do renew beyond 2020, they will it on far more favourable terms to themselves, as they have not seen the profits they anticipated.

 

I hope Liverpool gets the Cruise work (with 20 year repayment plan for the grants), and Southampton council wakes up to the fact that Southampton is a ****hole, they need to improve the city, attract new investment, and not just rely on the fact that southampton is near somewhere nice (The New Forest).

 

Southampton has attracted considerable investment in its port and cruise businesses over the last few years. Carnival have set up a massive office in the City, and the container port was taken over a few years ago by middle-eastern investors, and is shortly to be extended. We didn't get grants, and the investment has been funded privately. I think you are a bit ignorant of the facts.

 

Even my friend who worked for Mosaic turned done a job offer down here, because it's known that whilst Southampton will occasionaly bluster about a WOW factor, they will hardly ever put together a bid worth the lined paper it's written on. If you want to get angry at someone, get angry at Southampton's leaders. Liverpool is doing the best it can for the region. Southampton cannot say the same.

 

Oh, and there should have been more backing for Dibden Bay. Just saying. http://www.sefs.org.uk/category/dibden-bay/

[Wade Garrett]

Ok Wade, I'll bite. Here is what I said, word for word. I've highlighted the same bits again, just to make it far more obvious, notice how I differentiate the city and docks just like in the original post, and in my reply to you. Or in the posts where I laid out the links to attractions in both cities. Or the photo's of both cities. Or most anything I've written on this thread. We are talking about several different things. As I said earlier, I'm talking about ways to attract people in to southampton not just from a cruise, not something based dockside. One company (itself cruise based) won't make a difference. Will people go to the Carnival offices if they visit the city before or after their cruise? No. So why mention it in the context i had laid out?

 

What would you recommend to someone as a good day out in southampton, honestly? Excluding Southampton FC. Not saying there isn't anything, but what there is is barely promoted, and hardly A grade.

 

As I pointed out earlier, Soton hasn't even steered seraches on google to the right pages (engineering results is pretty basic. Most people with basic knoweldge of computing could pick it up easy, and any post grad with PR training should know how). It could be a two week internship task. Wouldn't cost a penny. But again, a pattern of joined up thinking/planning would be required! Oh and Soton pages are

 

And even dockside/cruise sites don't enter the public imagination in the same way as the (non industrial) Albert Dock. Oh and thanks for the lesson on grants and private investment, I could of saved myself 3 years and a BA learning all about that crazy stuff, including aforementioned stints in Westminster/Whitehall. But Hampshire as a whole had (in 2009/2010) a very poor attitude to putting together bids. Seriously, some of the stuff (alledgedly I spoke to people who had seen the bids, I didn't see them myself) looked like something of a secondary school clipart tutorial

 

And yes my father is now an exec at DP world, after being head hunted for his work with ABP and then SCT. But believe it or don't. Oh, and to the Spyinthesky, he thinks if DP world do renew beyond 2020, they will it on far more favourable terms to themselves, as they have not seen the profits they anticipated.

 

I hope Liverpool gets the Cruise work (with 20 year repayment plan for the grants), and Southampton council wakes up to the fact that Southampton is a ****hole, they need to improve the city, attract new investment, and not just rely on the fact that southampton is near somewhere nice (The New Forest).

 

Southampton has attracted considerable investment in its port and cruise businesses over the last few years. Carnival have set up a massive office in the City, and the container port was taken over a few years ago by middle-eastern investors, and is shortly to be extended. We didn't get grants, and the investment has been funded privately. I think you are a bit ignorant of the facts.

 

Even my friend who worked for Mosaic turned done a job offer down here, because it's known that whilst Southampton will occasionaly bluster about a WOW factor, they will hardly ever put together a bid worth the lined paper it's written on. If you want to get angry at someone, get angry at Southampton's leaders. Liverpool is doing the best it can for the region. Southampton cannot say the same.

 

Oh, and there should have been more backing for Dibden Bay. Just saying. http://www.sefs.org.uk/category/dibden-bay/

 

But my point is you saying Southampton relies on being near the New Forest. This despite a lot of investment in the city from DP World, ABP, Ikea, Tesco, Carnival.....

 

There isn't much point wasting time and money on bids you know you won't get. Similar to our World Cup bid, which we were never going to win, but spent millions to confirm our fears.

[alehouseboys]

The Echo featured Liverpool's plans for their waterfront where the cruise ships would dock...

 

 

...makes Ocean Village and the Town Quay plans look a bit feeble.

 

http://www.liverpoolwaters.co.uk/content/home.php

[Joesaint]

If/when our waterfront is developed (centenary quay and royal peer) both of which I like, we should still try and do somthing about western flats!! I think the arguement for trying to stop this is that it is completely unfair and alot of jobs rely on the cruse industry as well as the potential for more jobs if the new terminal got built. Liverpool clearly want to take as much business as possible which is like in any competition but to fund a rival to take business away with public money is plain wrong, that is not a level playing field and will put off private investors, all I ask is that they should pay back all the money.

 

I have done what I can really filling out the public consultation which must be the most important, signing the petition and I have even printed the template letter of rejection.

 

If anyone else wants to, here is a link to an echo article with link on to help.

[exit2]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9237157.Lawrie_signs_up_to_cruise_campaign/

 

Lawrie, Franny sign up to it!

[Joesaint]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9237157.Lawrie_signs_up_to_cruise_campaign/

 

Lawrie, Franny sign up to it!

 

Good, the more support the better. COYS

[TopGun]

Liverpool offers to return public grant money for port proposal change of use as QE docks there.

 

http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/9980-liverpool-cruise-terminal-candaign-builds.html

[pap]

Liverpool offers to return public grant money for port proposal change of use as QE docks there.

 

http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/9980-liverpool-cruise-terminal-candaign-builds.html

 

Well, now we get to find out whether the objections are about the funding, or as I suspect, it's more about this....

 

Took our jobs