Jan Poortvliet is brilliant

[s0108787]

You surely are on the payroll.

 

**** me you guys are soo ****ing stupid.

 

If someone decides they think differently to you, you make up little fantasy scenarios in your mind to justify your scewed perspectives.

 

It's little wonder the club is struggling with fans as bright as you.

[AwaySaint1]

Fos1 not sure if s0108787 is a RL lapdog or not.

 

Are you a lapdog Richard?

[instinct]

Lowe: Will you work for peanuts?

 

JP: yesh boss

 

Lowe: Will you let me loan out all our experienced players?

 

JP: yesh boss

 

Lowe: Will you dance for me?

 

JP: yesh boss

[Long Shot]

yes i'm rupert you idiot.

 

So what, rupert appointed him, big deal!

 

I tend to have to do what my boss says too and i'm certainly no ones "yes man".

 

People like you ASSUME that rupert is running the football side - from what i can see most of the negative posters on have a massive chip on their shoulders that blinds them to reality and makes them see the spectre of the devil Lowe around every corner.

 

What is worse than assumption, is stating that assumption as fact.

 

 

 

No one on here can say conclusively that RL is meddling in first team affairs, people are just drawing conclusions that help them sleep at night when they choose to jeer and boo the team, or not attend matches at all.

 

Mark Wotte is telling people that Lowe is running team affairs!

[1965onwards]

It is a given that a football managers job is to get the best out of the players at his disposal.

JP has come here to instill "total football" in the team,mostly using young players who are more receptive to new ideas and able to adapt than hard-bitten journeymen.

We have seen some flowing passing football(but nowhere near as much as some contend),

which largely fails to produce much in the danger zone.It is not that difficult to pass the ball around when the opposition sit off you in midfield,but as soon as we get near their box teams close in and we lose possession.

So many seem to be wetting their pants watching this uncontested passing,well,sorry to rain on your parade but professional football is about being effective.

However,it is not the youngsters fault if they are not good enough(or not yet anyway).

It is JPs job to assess each player individually to find out what each are capable of in the short and long term,but the overiding priority must be the short term,as there may not be a long term.

It has been obvious from day one that we have overwhelmingly serious problems defensively,and so far no combination of players has improved the situation.We lack height,experience and intelligence(have done for years).

It is perfectly obvious that we will not outscore opponents to make up for the goals we will concede.

It is the managers job to devise a way of playing that maximises players strenghts and

minimises their deficiencies,which is mostly defensive with our lot.

JP has totally FAILED in this respect.He is on a "total football" egotrip without the players to back it up.

Don't be fooled by Tuesdays result,we were battered again second half,only saved by Davis again and poor finishing.

We don't have a defence and we play in a way that totally exposes it.That would not be so bad if we were scoring lots of goals,but we ain't.The way we are playing leaves the defence to completely fend for itself.

ALL our midfielders are completely useless defensively in our present set-up.

JP needs to start doing his job properly pretty soon,the teams below us will improve as the season goes on,they always do.There are no signs that we will.

[suewhistle]

I'm with St Landrew; I think JP is an intelligent guy and appeals for real 'football people' as managers just underline some of the limitations in the English game. As an example having someone like Shearer as manager would be dreadful, although if something like that happened we'd probably have more success as it we be on the back of investment.

 

I like the comment from JP on the OS openly telling us the reason SJ is going due to high wages. Rupert might be manipulating, but he's not silenced him entirely.

 

And speaking of investment, did anyone notice that the offer for Charlton has been withdrawn? No issues with the deal itself, just the economics did not make sense for the Dubai group. That is something else no one seems to consider. I think we may be ahead of the game in reducing our costs as the debt in football generally is just not sustainable at the moment. With the rise in unemployment/prices an expensive ticket to watch a match is going to be one of the first things to be cut and liquidity in the investment groups is just not there, especially those backed by oil funds (seen the price of a barrel the last few days?).

 

I think we should cut JP some slack, it's not all going to come right immediately but you can't deny the kids are getting more experience! The trick is not to ruin their confidence whilst they're getting there. So please no booing and get along to a game if you can. From the two games I saw on my visit earlier in the season there was certainly a lot more effort than last season and more decent football too. I'm over at Christmas so I'll be able to take in a couple more games - last year I saw two dire defeats at home so I thinkthings will be better this year .... please...

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

There's something of the John Major about Jan Poortvleit - nice chap but promoted beyond his ability ?

 

Although he did volunteer for it I still have a degree of sympathy for him however , this is probably his last chance to make a name for himself in football management but he's been dealt a truly rotten hand to play . Rupert Lowe (or more specifically Barclay's Bank) are the real Captains of this ship and JP looks a pretty hapless victim now or even their 'fall-guy' should/when it all go tits-up . Nobody ever said life was fair did they ?

 

With most of our better players transferred out and Micheal Svennson's comeback looking ill-advised we're desperately short of even the minimum quality needed to survive in this division irrespective of who's running the team . The best Coach in football would struggle with this squad and I seriously doubt JP falls into that category , but time will tell I suppose .

[Wade Garrett]

Does "real football people" mean the good old fashioned English "up and under", "hoof and hope", "up and at 'em" and "battle hard for every ball" tactics we all know and love?

 

Wow i'd pay to watch that!!

 

And in one post you show everyone how little you know about football.

 

Muppet.

[Wes Tender]

I feel truly sorry for JP who seems a nice guy, but had probably reached his potential in Holland and because of the stupidity of Lowe and his propensity for attraction to the two for one option, the never mind the quality feel the width attitude, he finds himself way out of his depth.

 

We are struggling to keep afloat because too many of the youngsters have been thrown in at the deep end and although some swam, others sank. As talented as some of the kids are, the truth is that under a decent manager they would have been introduced into the team gradually, when they were ready.

 

But we got rid of the decent manager when JP arrived and consequently the failing madcap experiment is not working and dwindling crowds have consigned us to a long lingering decline into the situation that we will have to sell any half decent player in January, thus further weakening the team. With Pearson and without Lowe, I'm sure that crowds would be bigger, that there would have been a better mix of youth and experience, a better defence, more points won and therefore an upward impetus rather than the sinking like a stone scenario we currently have.

[solentstars]

i've just watched all of his interviews on saints tv.

 

The man speaks absolute sense (in a round-a-bout dutch way) and clearly knows what he is doing.

 

People make snap judgements about team selections, tactical choices and his actions on the touchline. But the reality is that the posters on here and most fans actually have no idea what goes on behind the scenes and are making judgments based on flawed information.

 

Given time i remain convinced that Jan could be one of the best managers that we have ever had. He tells it like it is and frankly is a breath of fresh air compared to the inane rambling of old school managers like 'arry' and other such luminaries as kevin keegan.

good guy and i like him ,hes not perfect but who is .

[1965onwards]

Every performance and every unforced team change screams that JP is a drowning man.

[eelpie]

**** me you guys are soo ****ing stupid.

 

If someone decides they think differently to you, you make up little fantasy scenarios in your mind to justify your scewed perspectives.

 

It's little wonder the club is struggling with fans as bright as you.

 

Tut tut. No need to get personal because one guy may have a different opinion to yours. You did infer you had inside knowledge, hence my post. And you are jumping to conclusions that I don't agree with your post. I do think that Jan has many qualities. (Defensive tactics however not being one of them). I wouldn't agree that he is brilliant.

[Charlie2008]

"I do think that Jan has many qualities. (Defensive tactics however not being one of them)." Wholly agree.

 

Possibly due to a lack of decent defenders...?

 

Reasons as posted by others previously. :confused:

[s0108787]

Fos1 not sure if s0108787 is a RL lapdog or not.

 

Are you a lapdog Richard?

 

yes

 

you?

Edited 25 October, 2008 by s0108787

[s0108787]

And in one post you show everyone how little you know about football.

 

Muppet.

 

sorry sir.

[Thedelldays]

Every performance and every unforced team change screams that JP is a drowning man.

I have to agree....how many changes does he make??

[1965onwards]

TDD,he needs to realise his best players,and play to suit those players,rather than keep trying to play a way that they are not capable of.

 

Their movement is just not good enough for Total football,the whole team is stretched out too far,leaving huge gaps to be exploited,and our midfield players are hopeless at protecting the defence.

 

We need a far more compact style of play.

[ottery st mary]

Either he or his Director of Football now realise that Pekhart and Robertson are not up to it and can't even get in the squad to-day. I wondered why Robertson could not get anywhere near The Sheffield first team squad. To cap it he has an even bigger shock to come when Pulis starts playing for the reserves.

I wonder who decided on bringing these players in as they are not even as good as our youth players like Patterson or White.

[qwertySFC]

We're not in the relegation zone at this moment which I think is pretty good considering we have lost most of our decent players.

Originally Posted by qwertySFC

However, 1 of the stated reasons Jan was appointed was that he had achieved good results whilst on a low budget and developing young players. I think jan has to be accountable for results as Pearson , Burley were just as accountable.

 

 

Well Hypo ..what do u think now still a sucess is it ???

[Long Shot]

We're not in the relegation zone at this moment which I think is pretty good considering we have lost most of our decent players.

 

:confused:

[Topcat]

s0108787 wins my vote for d***head poster of the month.

[Berko]

Has he ever been to a football match?

[eelpie]

Either he or his Director of Football now realise that Pekhart and Robertson are not up to it and can't even get in the squad to-day. I wondered why Robertson could not get anywhere near The Sheffield first team squad. To cap it he has an even bigger shock to come when Pulis starts playing for the reserves.

I wonder who decided on bringing these players in as they are not even as good as our youth players like Patterson or White.

 

Lowe?

[L1Minus10]

Very harsh. I certainly do not hold Jan responsible for this situation. I think most managers would find it hard to do well considering the players we have lost/are losing.

 

Sorry mate. If Jan can;t see that this formation will never ever work with the players we have then he has to go. I don't blame him for the players he's got but I blame him totally for the way he sets the team up.

 

We don't have a single player who can play as a lone striker so why do it - oh yes, it's what we do in Holland. It doesn't matter a **** where you come from... if you don't have a Drogba type striker who can do all of the following: hold it up, score goals, bring others into play, be mobile about the park and occupy 2 central defenders then it a complete waste of time as you are going to create **** all. We don't have this player.... hardly anyone does.

 

We are so vulnerable on the wings because a) the wide attacking players don't get back and b) we have no specialist fullback.

 

We will not improve at all until we go 4-4-2 and ditch this formation that doesn't suit our players. All this is Jan's call.

[s0108787]

s0108787 wins my vote for d***head poster of the month.

 

Well you sir are an arse ****ing noncing ****.

[Greenridge]

Well you sir are an arse ****ing noncing ****.

 

Half term?

[s0108787]

Half term?

 

It is half term, but it just meas an easier ride in to work for me.

 

Other people made it personal, i just figured i should give some abuse back. Obviously opinions aren't allowed here.

 

Such is life on the saints forum...

[Pat from Poole]

Lowe: Will you work for peanuts?

 

JP: yesh boss

 

Lowe: Will you let me loan out all our experienced players?

 

JP: yesh boss

 

Lowe: Will you dance for me?

 

JP: yesh boss

 

 

 

Both amusing but also disturbingly probably very close to the truth.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

How can he be doing a good job?

 

He readily admits the players can only play one way, and when we are 3 goals down he does like for like substitutions.

 

Is it the players who can only play one way, or JP who can only coach one way?

[saint_bert]

Jan is a top bloke, but he is not cut out for the job in my opinion

[West End Saint]

A lot of people on here questioned wether this style of football with kids would work in this league there have been glimmers of hope that it might after 1 or 2 decent performances but I think we now know that it wont work with the personel we have got.

 

The youngsters we have who are clearly talented are not big and strong enough for this league we lack a shape to our play we are so open to the counter attack it is scary we are playing inexperienced players out of position and we lack cutting edge.

 

we have to change something and I am beging to think that it may have to be JP

[Runaway]

Jan is a top bloke, but he is not cut out for the job in my opinion

 

Unfortunately I am starting to agree.

[The Farmer]

Unfortunately I am starting to agree.

 

In all honestly, JP might be a nice bloke but he never stood a chance in this league, in this country.

 

Look at the level he coached at immediately before his appointment. It is one big sick joke overseen by egomaniac Lowe who cannot stand being dictated to.

 

Look at what Pearson is achieiving with his style and home grown management nous and then think we spent money discarding him and getting the current pair of unproven second rate jokers in.

 

LOWE JUST GTFO NOW

[alpine_saint]

I also think JP is a top bloke. I think he cares, and his comments are refreshing and are not the banal straight-out-of-100 Greatest Football Platitudes that used to twitch subconsciously and slurringly out of Burleys mouth.

 

But he's either not up to the job due to lack of experience or wrong mindset, or he simply didnt know what he was letting himself in for.

 

I think we will get hammered over the next 5 games and he will be gone by the end of that period.

 

Lowe's actions in all this are utterly incredible. He is almost exactly repeating the events of the relegation season (appointing an inexperienced yes man who is desperate to make it work but is unable to see it isnt to subsequently cut his losses and quit, finally succumbs as Lowe's scapegoat). And guess what ? By the time a change happens it will be too late again and we will be relegated.

[Teddy Nutkins]

What puzzles me is why any self-respecting person/ coach/ manager, you choose, would allow himself to be manipulated into decisions that he doesn't agree with. If i was JP, mister director of football/ knower of all things would have had my resignation, when Stern John departed on Friday. I feel sorry for JP, maybe he did have to buy out his old contract from Helmond Sports(sp), and has no-alternative but to tough it out. I think i would rather disappear quietly personally.

[Teddy Nutkins]

What puzzles me is why any self-respecting person/ coach/ manager, you choose, would allow himself to be manipulated into decisions that he doesn't agree with. If i was JP, mister director of football/ knower of all things would have had my resignation, when Stern John departed on Friday. I feel sorry for JP, maybe he did have to buy out his old contract from Helmond Sports(sp), and has no-alternative but to tough it out. I think i would rather disappear quietly personally.

 

 

Yes i know, i have that effect on a lot of people.:cool:

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I also think JP is a top bloke. I think he cares, and his comments are refreshing and are not the banal straight-out-of-100 Greatest Football Platitudes that used to twitch subconsciously and slurringly out of Burleys mouth.

 

But he's either not up to the job due to lack of experience or wrong mindset, or he simply didnt know what he was letting himself in for.

 

I think we will get hammered over the next 5 games and he will be gone by the end of that period.

 

Lowe's actions in all this are utterly incredible. He is almost exactly repeating the events of the relegation season (appointing an inexperienced yes man who is desperate to make it work but is unable to see it isnt to subsequently cut his losses and quit, finally succumbs as Lowe's scapegoat). And guess what ? By the time a change happens it will be too late again and we will be relegated.

 

Yep , couldn't agree more .

[alpine_saint]

If JP were to quit because the situation is completely untenable, it would finish Lowe. So I can imagine some pretty significant carrot-dangling and arm-twisting is going on to prevent him from doing so.

 

Whatever it is, I am of the opinion he is being lied to or having the piiss taken out of him. The situation is highly humilliating for JP, and I hope at some point he says to himself "enough", salvages his self-respsect, quits and ressurects his career back in Holland.

[um pahars]

What puzzles me is why any self-respecting person/ coach/ manager, you choose, would allow himself to be manipulated into decisions that he doesn't agree with. If i was JP, mister director of football/ knower of all things would have had my resignation, when Stern John departed on Friday. I feel sorry for JP, maybe he did have to buy out his old contract from Helmond Sports(sp), and has no-alternative but to tough it out. I think i would rather disappear quietly personally.

 

I think probably for two main reasons:

 

1) This is his big break, and regardless of the alledged meddling from above he probably thinks it's worth putting up with as this could unlock many doors in the future.

 

This is a good job to have on your CV and despite what AdrianSFC and SadOldGit are saying, we are still perceived as a relatively "big" club.

 

2) He probably is use to this type of set up from back home. Maybe Saint Martini can add some bones to it here, but perhaps most teams in the Dutch lower leagues use the DOF/Active Chairman approach (although I imagine their DOF is slightly better qualified than the one we currently have).

[Teddy Nutkins]

I think probably for two main reasons:

 

1) This is his big break, and regardless of the alledged meddling from above he probably thinks it's worth putting up with as this could unlock many doors in the future.

 

This is a good job to have on your CV and despite what AdrianSFC and SadOldGit are saying, we are still perceived as a relatively "big" club.

 

2) He probably is use to this type of set up from back home. Maybe Saint Martini can add some bones to it here, but perhaps most teams in the Dutch lower leagues use the DOF/Active Chairman approach (although I imagine their DOF is slightly better qualified than the one we currently have).

 

Yes U.P. i can agree with both those reasons for "toughing" it out. Hard as it is to admit you have made a mistake, how long do you make yourself suffer, until you have total humiliation.Very hard to get another job then.

I am sure JP is a hard working chap who loves the club, players etc; even after a short time here and i can understand his call for everyone to be patient and understand the dire financial circumstances. Trust me we do Jan, that is the problem we have lived with for too long.

I believe JP resigning would expose all the interference that has been going on, if indeed it has, and JP could walk away with his reputation, not in tact, but not totally broken.