Frank's cousin Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 So you say he had it spot on in the Prem, but allowed the income from sales to be spent on too many poor signings. And maintained a pay structure that directly led to that. But apart from that he had it spot on. I think you've tried to contradict what GIG said but actually repeated what he said - Lowe couldn't re-invest what he earned. You've merely split hairs over the words profit and income, when everyone else knew what he meant. I know what you are trying to say - sort of... but the point was he had it spot on in terms of balancing the books - The vast majority f fans on here have rightly IMHO been highly critical of our friends down the road who went about looking for success on credit. At the time Lowe was here, many felt we should do the same... 'investment after the cup final' is the classic rhetoric. Yet no one has indicated where that cash for investment should come from? We had a polocy that ensured we lived within our means - which I believe is the RIGHT way to run a club. Its only because so many otehr clubs dont that it gives the perception we were not spending enough. IMHO the amount of spending/investment was RIGHT as it was what we could afford. What was wrong was the how it was spent as I mentioned and it is possible to seperate the two issues Finally, you touch on another interesting point - wage structure. Yes it was possibly too rigid, which meant it was difficult to attract ... those not happy with 20K a week + bonuses... I am sure there will be diverse opinion on whether that ceiling was right or not, but given we have all just been moaning about 'greed' on the AOC thread it seems almost hypocritical in some respects - If players leave for more money they are greedy bastards - yet if we dont pay them stupid money its wrong? There were many issues with Lowe - and rightly so - plenty of footballing errors of judgment in terms of manager situation and in how avaiable cash was utilised, but there are also many 'myths' and made up ******, that have been attributed simply because it was convenient to do so and of the strength of feeling against him. The ability to keep teh books balanced is one of the things he should at very least be acknolwedged for. Afterall, that is what all clubs should be aiming for - and if they did the playing field would be a lot more level. I would go further that UEFA are doing - my 'test' that all clubs books would need to show, is that they are sell financing with all contracts in place even if any benefactor was to withdraw/sell etc... sadly the clubs have too much power and this is never likely to happen, but I say it again, I think its right we strive for that balance. We currently 'owe' ML estate. I would like to see that paid back before we start going mad in the transfer market Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 The Theo deal was one of the better aspects of Lowe's tenure. Absolutely right… well it was slightly less **** than everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Why cant we discuss the good times arriving at SMS without that pr*cks name coming up ? Its like the media whoring that placed him in the yearly Team Photo is still carrying on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Why cant we discuss the good times arriving at SMS without that pr*cks name coming up ? Its like the media whoring that placed him in the yearly Team Photo is still carrying on. Yeah, I hate it when clubs put their owner and CEO in the squad picture. Oh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 I know what you are trying to say - sort of... but the point was he had it spot on in terms of balancing the books - The vast majority f fans on here have rightly IMHO been highly critical of our friends down the road who went about looking for success on credit. At the time Lowe was here' date=' many felt we should do the same... 'investment after the cup fina[/b']l' is the classic rhetoric. Yet no one has indicated where that cash for investment should come from? We had a polocy that ensured we lived within our means - which I believe is the RIGHT way to run a club. Its only because so many otehr clubs dont that it gives the perception we were not spending enough. IMHO the amount of spending/investment was RIGHT as it was what we could afford. What was wrong was the how it was spent as I mentioned and it is possible to seperate the two issues Finally, you touch on another interesting point - wage structure. Yes it was possibly too rigid, which meant it was difficult to attract ... those not happy with 20K a week + bonuses... I am sure there will be diverse opinion on whether that ceiling was right or not, but given we have all just been moaning about 'greed' on the AOC thread it seems almost hypocritical in some respects - If players leave for more money they are greedy bastards - yet if we dont pay them stupid money its wrong? There were many issues with Lowe - and rightly so - plenty of footballing errors of judgment in terms of manager situation and in how avaiable cash was utilised, but there are also many 'myths' and made up ******, that have been attributed simply because it was convenient to do so and of the strength of feeling against him. The ability to keep teh books balanced is one of the things he should at very least be acknolwedged for. Afterall, that is what all clubs should be aiming for - and if they did the playing field would be a lot more level. I would go further that UEFA are doing - my 'test' that all clubs books would need to show, is that they are sell financing with all contracts in place even if any benefactor was to withdraw/sell etc... sadly the clubs have too much power and this is never likely to happen, but I say it again, I think its right we strive for that balance. We currently 'owe' ML estate. I would like to see that paid back before we start going mad in the transfer market The key word to all this is INVESTMENT, and THAT is something Lowe NEVER did In all theyears he was in charge, he did not attract £1 of Investment to the Club .... Why ??? Because the "Club" was Rupert F'ing Lowe's. Anything that went through the Club had to be vetted by him, El Duce2 of St Mary's (His biggest **** Up of course was mis-managing the Stoneham Project) The route back to the Royal Oak from the Kingsland was designed for drunks ........no straight way, just many many left and right turns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 (His biggest **** Up of course was mis-managing the Stoneham Project) good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 It's hell of lot easier to play hardball with players and other clubs when you've got money behind you like NC. It seems to me NC has a lot of similair ideas to RL it's just that NC has money to back the vision .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 It's hell of lot easier to play hardball with players and other clubs when you've got money behind you like NC. It seems to me NC has a lot of similair ideas to RL it's just that NC has money to back the vision .......... does he though..? does not have prem TV money...which when we lost, nearly destroyed us.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 The key word to all this is INVESTMENT, and THAT is something Lowe NEVER did In all theyears he was in charge, he did not attract £1 of Investment to the Club .... Why ??? Because the "Club" was Rupert F'ing Lowe's. Anything that went through the Club had to be vetted by him, El Duce2 of St Mary's (His biggest **** Up of course was mis-managing the Stoneham Project) The route back to the Royal Oak from the Kingsland was designed for drunks ........no straight way, just many many left and right turns Stoneham would have been an utter pile of sh it. By the way, how are your heros SISU getting on - you spent several months swooning about how utterly wonderful they are, and a further few months *****ing about the great opportunity we had passed up on. How is that working out for our friends in Coventry - all as fabulous as you said they would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 does he though..? does not have prem TV money...which when we lost, nearly destroyed us.. Do people SERIOUSLY think the club is self-funding at the moment ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Do people SERIOUSLY think the club is self-funding at the moment ? Despite evidence to the contrary in the form of club accounts, I think some people still do, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 On the AOC transfer....the OS reports it's one of the biggest deals ever for a championship player. This implies to me that it isn't the biggest deal ever, but maybe the 2nd or 3rd. Does anyone know what the highest fee paid for a second tier player was? If it's £12m, say, then that means it is unlikely that we got £15m for Chamberlain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmbrm Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Big deal! Great! Still a selling club then. Personally, i think our squad would be strnger with AOC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 (edited) On the AOC transfer....the OS reports it's one of the biggest deals ever for a championship player. This implies to me that it isn't the biggest deal ever, but maybe the 2nd or 3rd. Does anyone know what the highest fee paid for a second tier player was? If it's £12m, say, then that means it is unlikely that we got £15m for Chamberlain. Darren Bent, Charlton to Spurs, £16.5M. Technically speaking though, Bent wasn't really a Championship player. Charlton had just been relegated from the Premier League and Bent went in the summer before the Championship kicked off. But then you could apply that logic to Chamberlain being a League 1 player and not Championship. So it's perhaps better described as a transfer from a Championship club. Semantics really. Edited 10 August, 2011 by The Kraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Darren Bent, Charlton to Spurs, £16.5M. Technically speaking though, Bent wasn't really a Championship player. Charlton had just been relegated from the Premier League and Bent went in the summer before the Championship kicked off. But then you could apply that logic to Chamberlain being a League 1 player and not Championship. Yep, I reckon Bent counts. So £15m is indeed plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La BoIS Saint Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Yeah, I hate it when clubs put their owner and CEO in the squad picture. Oh... Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Would not change it for the world at the moment.....would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 Yeah, I hate it when clubs put their owner and CEO in the squad picture. Oh... Yes, yes. Very good. A few questions : 1. Do you begrudge ML sitting in the team photo when he saved the club ? 2. Can you imagine him doing so, without including NC, considering the depth of the relationship between them ? 3. Actually, WTF has the context of this photo got to do with Lowe's blatant parasitic behaviour and egotism ? Still havent heard about NC turning up at Staplewood in a monogrammed track-suit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 I'm no torch bearer for Rupert Lowe. But I've always been amazed that the monographed tracksuit thing caused such outrage. If Cortese wants to turn up at Staplewood in an NC tracksuit and kick a ball around for a few minutes one day, so what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 I'm no torch bearer for Rupert Lowe. But I've always been amazed that the monographed tracksuit thing caused such outrage. If Cortese wants to turn up at Staplewood in an NC tracksuit and kick a ball around for a few minutes one day, so what? It's just an opportunity to have a go, whether it's reasonable or not. A bit like this thread, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 I'm no torch bearer for Rupert Lowe. But I've always been amazed that the monographed tracksuit thing caused such outrage. If Cortese wants to turn up at Staplewood in an NC tracksuit and kick a ball around for a few minutes one day, so what? But I very much doubt he will because he understands he's the businessman and NA and the rest of the coaching team are the football. While the concepts of Academy development are similar, the actual deployment will eventually be different. Lowe didn't have the money or infrastructure and investment to keep the top youngsters, plus the club was not operating at the top of the Prem for long enough (Strachan left because he knew we'd gone as far as Lowe could/would take us). NC so far has not had the chance to operate in the Prem let alone establish a history at the top. When that happens we will be able to develop top young players AND have a chance of keeping hold of them because NC's vision includes gettting to and staying at the top end of the Prem. I have no doubt that eventually this will happen - I always doubted Lowe's ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 But I very much doubt he will because he understands he's the businessman and NA and the rest of the coaching team are the football. While the concepts of Academy development are similar, the actual deployment will eventually be different. Lowe didn't have the money or infrastructure and investment to keep the top youngsters, plus the club was not operating at the top of the Prem for long enough (Strachan left because he knew we'd gone as far as Lowe could/would take us). NC so far has not had the chance to operate in the Prem let alone establish a history at the top. When that happens we will be able to develop top young players AND have a chance of keeping hold of them because NC's vision includes gettting to and staying at the top end of the Prem. I have no doubt that eventually this will happen - I always doubted Lowe's ability. Not just his ability - his intent and motivation as well. Disgusted there are so many Lowe apologists still floating around, even with the evidence of contrast between a well-run club and a complete dog's breakfast before their eyes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 In answer to the thread title yup, I expect he is. After all, his lad is now a Saints fan and Rupe's took him to the Charlton match last year. Whatever else you may think of him, he has brought a new fan into our midst & as the train wreck of events has now led us into this happy place of 7 goals in 2 games and everyone feeling good about being on the bus, he should be able to bring his lad to watch us at SMS. It's done, he's gone. We've learnt. Get over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 Stoneham would have been an utter pile of sh it. By the way, how are your heros SISU getting on - you spent several months swooning about how utterly wonderful they are, and a further few months *****ing about the great opportunity we had passed up on. How is that working out for our friends in Coventry - all as fabulous as you said they would be? I bet he embraced Wilde with open arms as well, purely on the basis that he was anti-Lowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 I bet he embraced Wilde with open arms as well, purely on the basis that he was anti-Lowe Wilde nearly got us back to the PL, and would have if Burley hadnt been such an unambitious pr*ck. He took a gamble, and it didnt pay off. At least he tried, and gave us hope. Lowe just started cloth-cutting in order to balance the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 Wilde nearly got us back to the PL, and would have if Burley hadnt been such an unambitious pr*ck. He took a gamble, and it didnt pay off. At least he tried, and gave us hope. Lowe just started cloth-cutting in order to balance the books. What a ridiculous statement. Wilde gambled all the family silver on getting back to the Premier League. That failed. We all know what a crippling, financial mess that left us in. Lowe then went on to make further mistakes with the appointment of the Dutch duo, but while his actual methods were flawed many could see that, given our state at the time, we didn't have too many other choices than to make huge financial cuts. As for your statement "at least he tried, and gave us hope", well I find that remarkable. Peter Ridsdale has tried at a couple of clubs; he's overspent and they've almost gone to the wall. Peter Storrie tried, and gave Pompey hope for a while. Does that make them good chairmen? No, it doesn't. Lowe did quite a few good things for this club He also made some very, very poor errors in judgement. But he always had a plan to keep the club on the financial straight and narrow. Wilde and his lot spent money they didn't have chasing a footballing dream, then woke up to a financial nightmare of their own creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 Wilde nearly got us back to the PL, and would have if Burley hadnt been such an unambitious pr*ck. He took a gamble, and it didnt pay off. At least he tried, and gave us hope. Lowe just started cloth-cutting in order to balance the books. ??? that's a bad thing. Surely NC is doing the same with a bigger cloth and extra cloth to fall back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Saint Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 To be fair - As much as Wupert was a c*nt...he was generally good at getting a decent amount for players. yep, and then refusing to reinvest it back into the club for new players!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 What a ridiculous statement. Wilde gambled all the family silver on getting back to the Premier League. That failed. We all know what a crippling, financial mess that left us in. Lowe then went on to make further mistakes with the appointment of the Dutch duo, but while his actual methods were flawed many could see that, given our state at the time, we didn't have too many other choices than to make huge financial cuts. As for your statement "at least he tried, and gave us hope", well I find that remarkable. Peter Ridsdale has tried at a couple of clubs; he's overspent and they've almost gone to the wall. Peter Storrie tried, and gave Pompey hope for a while. Does that make them good chairmen? No, it doesn't. Lowe did quite a few good things for this club He also made some very, very poor errors in judgement. But he always had a plan to keep the club on the financial straight and narrow. Wilde and his lot spent money they didn't have chasing a footballing dream, then woke up to a financial nightmare of their own creation. And if we had managed to get promoted in spite of Burley, because of Wilde's attempt to build a decent team ? Nah, you wouldnt even be signing a different song then. Your comments on here and about NC make if clear you are a Luvvie pining for your master... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 ??? that's a bad thing. Surely NC is doing the same with a bigger cloth and extra cloth to fall back on. Yep, its a bad thing. He didnt try to find an investor (I prefer "benefactor" - who makes money out of a football club except Martin Edwards ?) because his power would be diluted, so the cloth-cutting would have eventually led to non-league football if Barclays hadnt stepped in (thank f*ck). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 And if we had managed to get promoted in spite of Burley, because of Wilde's attempt to build a decent team ? Nah, you wouldnt even be signing a different song then. Your comments on here and about NC make if clear you are a Luvvie pining for your master... I was going to debate the matter, then you come out with the unnecessary Lowe comment, which is neither true nor realistic. You put your dummy back in and we'll choose to ignore each other. You offer nothing but ignorance and childish idiocy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Saint Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 It's hell of lot easier to play hardball with players and other clubs when you've got money behind you like NC. It seems to me NC has a lot of similair ideas to RL it's just that NC has money to back the vision .......... and Cortese has actually restored some much needed integrity and self-respect back to our club, which was utterly beyond RL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 I was going to debate the matter, then you come out with the unnecessary Lowe comment, which is neither true nor realistic. You put your dummy back in and we'll choose to ignore each other. You offer nothing but ignorance and childish idiocy. Fine. If I want whinging on your level, I'll take my kids on a day out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 yep, and then refusing to reinvest it back into the club for new players!! Nope... wrong - look at the books and you will see that when we were in the the transfers in pretty much equalled the transfers out. The books were balanced on the whole - no bad thing. Again some see this as some sort of 'apologist' bollx.... I will quite happily say that those who so much ingrained hatred for teh bloke seem fecking sad to me. He was an egotistical tosser for sure, but so what? We had some good times - but for many at the time when those around us were borrowing heavily and we were not, that became a major issue. What of 'attractaing investment' - well we were a PLC FFS, and like it or not with that comes certain restrictions - principly teh dilution of teh shareholding should someone come alomg with 20 mil or so to pump in - and given that Lowe had what 6%? If teh majority of shareholders had been in favour of such a dilution of their holdings in return for some cash to 'invest' there woudl have been feck all Lowe and his cronies could have done about it (as we saw with the Wilde Coup - Lowes pals were around 29% of the shareholding) What never stops to amaze me is that folk make such a song and dance about photos, monogramed training kit and the like -FFS why was that even an issue? It shoudl never have warranted teh amount of pathetic infantile crap that it did, and its interesting to see teh two faced ****e about this now we have a picture with ML and NC in the photo.. It makes feck all difference and If I owned the club, to bloody right would I be in the picture and seriously if some fans wanted to give me ****e about it well feck em. The chairnman should be judged on how the company/club performs on the pitch within the financial restrictions they have to work within. simple. When we had decent revenue form teh Prem, we performed OK given thet we did not go stupid and in debt for players and wages - yes they fecked up big time with managers and stupid buys, but that is another issue and you wont see too much defence of that, even if there are those that still to this day find it impossible not to acknowledge that not all the changes were just down to one man... I just find it almost hilariously funny that grown men with serious anger issues still seem to find it necessary to 'hate' - FFS grow up, its sport, football not life and death (shankly was an arse for saying it was more important - even though he was being humourous, the fact so many have it as a mantra is quite frankly ridiculous). Jeez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 What a ridiculous statement. Wilde gambled all the family silver on getting back to the Premier League. That failed. We all know what a crippling, financial mess that left us in. Lowe then went on to make further mistakes with the appointment of the Dutch duo, but while his actual methods were flawed many could see that, given our state at the time, we didn't have too many other choices than to make huge financial cuts. As for your statement "at least he tried, and gave us hope", well I find that remarkable. Peter Ridsdale has tried at a couple of clubs; he's overspent and they've almost gone to the wall. Peter Storrie tried, and gave Pompey hope for a while. Does that make them good chairmen? No, it doesn't. Lowe did quite a few good things for this club He also made some very, very poor errors in judgement. But he always had a plan to keep the club on the financial straight and narrow. Wilde and his lot spent money they didn't have chasing a footballing dream, then woke up to a financial nightmare of their own creation. and then returned holding hands with Lowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 yep, and then refusing to reinvest it back into the club for new players!! That's completely untrue. He did reinvest it but spent it on galacticos like Mark Draper and Stuart Ripley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wopper Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 Rupert must be as sick as a pig to see the club doing so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 11 August, 2011 Share Posted 11 August, 2011 Rupert must be as sick as a pig to see the club doing so well. Well, you would hope not. You would hope he would be pleased. However, I know where I would put my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazza Posted 12 August, 2011 Share Posted 12 August, 2011 I wonder if he does still watch the Saints though...he never was much of a football fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 12 August, 2011 Share Posted 12 August, 2011 I wonder if he does still watch the Saints though...he never was much of a football fan! We know for a fact he was at the Charlton Away game last season. Was a lengthy thread about it as he was on a train with many of our fans out to the game from London. He was a "guest" of their Chairman but he told the lads (and repeated on here) that his son was a big fan and wanted to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 12 August, 2011 Share Posted 12 August, 2011 We are in a new era. All this bullcrap about past chairmen is ancient history. Time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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