Tottenham riots

[trousers]

As andy correctly points out, most of the 'years of liberal dogma' have been Tory years in the last three decades. This is just one of the Mail's gasket-blowing rants.

 

Not that I wish to exacerbate my Devil's Advocateness, but.....I believe they are referring to the underlying current of 'liberalness' that has reigned-in the natural instincts of the Tory party (to a certain degree)

 

In other words, it's the clamour of both main parties to secure the centre ground, i.e. the part of society that is typically underpinned by liberal values, that has diluted what the Tories would instinctively instigate, particularly in the area of law and order.

 

There again, maybe not...

Edited 12 August, 2011 by trousers

[AndyNorthernSaints]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024284/UK-riots-2011-Liberal-dogma-spawned-generation-brutalised-youths.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2025068/UK-riots-Middle-class-rioters-revealed-including-Laura-Johnson-Natasha-Reid-Stefan-Hoyle.html

 

With more and more middle class looters being caught, i wonder what benefits the government will take off them.

[ecuk268]

Usual garbage from the Mail.

 

The jobs patently aren't out there. ONS figures show unemployment at approx 2.45m and vacancies at 420k, so if all vacancies were filled there'd still be 2m out of work. Still, the Mail never lets the facts get in the way of good rant.

 

He refers the the rioters as "they" as though they were one amorphous group all from the same background. It's clear from the procession going through the courts that they come from a wide variety of backgrounds, ages and ethnic groups.

[CB Saint]

In all walks of life, in every city, in every social class, in every creed, in every race there are nasty little opportunistic scroats. These riots are a great example of this.

[Special K]

Usual garbage from the Mail.

 

The jobs patently aren't out there. ONS figures show unemployment at approx 2.45m and vacancies at 420k, so if all vacancies were filled there'd still be 2m out of work. Still, the Mail never lets the facts get in the way of good rant.

 

He refers the the rioters as "they" as though they were one amorphous group all from the same background. It's clear from the procession going through the courts that they come from a wide variety of backgrounds, ages and ethnic groups.

 

Maybe, but there is a case to suggest the jobs taken by the large migrant worker population should have been filled by Brits. Go to any care home, hospital or building site and you'll see huge numbers of migrant workers doing (so called) menial or not so menial jobs. I reckon the jobs have always been there, but there is a strata of society that chooses not to work these jobs because a) the jobs are not "valued" by society (whatever that means) b) they are hard work and require dedication and c) it's easier to toss it off on benefits, whilst supplementing this income with the odd bit of tea leafing / drug dealing along the way.

 

Obviously cannot generalise, but by the obvious lack of morality of those looting, i wouldn't be suprised if there was a large number of this demographic who would rather live out their "gansta" fantasy than put the effort into getting up for work every day.

[Verbal]

Maybe, but there is a case to suggest the jobs taken by the large migrant worker population should have been filled by Brits. Go to any care home, hospital or building site and you'll see huge numbers of migrant workers doing (so called) menial or not so menial jobs. I reckon the jobs have always been there, but there is a strata of society that chooses not to work these jobs because a) the jobs are not "valued" by society (whatever that means) b) they are hard work and require dedication and c) it's easier to toss it off on benefits, whilst supplementing this income with the odd bit of tea leafing / drug dealing along the way.

 

Obviously cannot generalise, but by the obvious lack of morality of those looting, i wouldn't be suprised if there was a large number of this demographic who would rather live out their "gansta" fantasy than put the effort into getting up for work every day.

 

Anecdotal evidence from the court cases so far suggests that the majority of those rioting were in work.

 

What's happened over the last few days shouldn't be dumped on the unemployed generally.

[JRM]

Brilliant quote from Littlejohn -

 

"One of the most ridiculous TV clips was a young, blinged-up black man telling London mayor Boris Johnson that ‘de yoof’ had to riot because they ‘had no food in dem bellies’. It’s a wonder McDonald’s in Brixton is still in business."

 

hahaha

[Wade Garrett]

This should keep the thread going for another few pages....

 

RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: The politics of envy was bound to end up in flames

 

Much more of this and I’ll have to go out and loot myself a new television. There have been several times this week I’ve come close to putting my foot through the plasma screen.

 

Frankly, I don’t know what’s worse: Harriet Harman on Newsnight disgracefully trying to blame the Tory ‘cuts’ for this week’s robfest, or the rolling news channels giving airtime to masked criminals.

 

Why have producers been prepared to allow young thieves to shelter their identities beneath face masks, sunglasses and hoodies while they complain about the police?

 

The BBC and Channel 4, in particular, have been anxious to portray these violent thugs and looters as victims. We’ve heard the usual garbage about social exclusion and police hostility to minorities.

 

Every lame excuse has been trotted out, from lack of job opportunities to tuition fees. As I wrote on Tuesday, there’s no lack of job vacancies, it’s just that they’ve all been filled by hard-working Eastern Europeans attracted here after Labour tore up Britain’s border controls.

 

The kind of hooligan seen throwing petrol bombs at the police and climbing through the front window of Currys to liberate 42 inches of hi-def, surround-sound home entertainment isn’t interested in a law-abiding, nine-to-five existence. Most of them don’t get up before midday, except on the mornings they have to sign on the dole. They’d rather live on benefits or the proceeds of gang crime.

 

Yet we are told that if only the Coalition hadn’t slashed spending on youth clubs, they’d all have a more wholesome outlet for their energies and wouldn’t be tempted into crime and disorder. Do me a favour. We’re talking about a wolfpack of feral inner-city waifs and strays who spend their time smoking dope, drinking lager and playing Grand Theft Auto on their stolen PlayStations. The soundtrack of their lives comprises wealthy, bling-laden rappers, surrounded by near-naked booty, singing about smacking *****es and killing cops.

 

Are we seriously being asked to believe that they are going to turn their backs on the glamorous gangsta lifestyle in exchange for a little light table tennis? Yeah, right.

 

There was a hand-wringing report on the local news in London which involved a social worker taking a BBC reporter on a tour of derelict playgrounds and boarded-up five-a-side football pitches.

 

The reason they’ve been abandoned is not because of the ‘savage cuts’, as the report would have had you believe, but because they have been firebombed, vandalised and colonised by drugs dealers.

 

Plenty of the rioters on the streets this week are of school age. Few of them even bother going to school, so they’re hardly going to sign up for a youth club. The idea that they’re protesting about tuition fees is beyond preposterous.

 

Up went the cry: where are the parents? Don’t be so naive. The babyfathers are long gone, if they ever hung around in the first place. In most cases, their mothers are stuck in front of daytime television or are out on the game to feed their drugs habit. Some of the parents were out looting alongside their offspring.

 

The realisation is finally dawning in some quarters that we’re now into the third, or even fourth generation of inner-city underclass. There are plenty of decent mums on some of these estates, but they are fighting a daily losing battle against the gang culture.

 

As Max Hastings and Melanie Phillips have argued eloquently on these pages, this is the inevitable outcome of 30 years of Left-wing social experimentation, aimed deliberately at destroying the social fabric of our country.

 

Many of those politicians attacking the Met’s sluggish response to the riots have spent their careers undermining and emasculating the police. They have created the conditions for this anarchy.

 

The police are hamstrung by legislation and terrified of being accused of racism. So it’s hardly surprising that instead of clubbing these looters like baby seals, which is what they deserved, they initially stood back and watched while shops were plundered and homes burned down.

 

Just wait for the witch hunt against those Manchester officers caught on camera battering a troublemaker to the ground, even though the law-abiding citizens of Manchester and beyond were cheering to the rafters.

 

The notion that all this was provoked by deprivation is nonsense. Many of those who have already appeared in court are opportunist thieves who hold down proper jobs. Even the unemployed are well-fed, designer-clad and shod, and equipped with the latest digital technology.

 

One of the most ridiculous TV clips was a young, blinged-up black man telling London mayor Boris Johnson that ‘de yoof’ had to riot because they ‘had no food in dem bellies’. It’s a wonder McDonald’s in Brixton is still in business.

 

Boris hasn’t exactly covered himself in glory this week. His Barnum & Bailey circus act is wearing thin. Instead of undermining Call Me Dave over police ‘cuts’, he could have pointed out that Labour closed more than 500 police stations, one for every week it was in office, and passed ridiculous regulations which denuded our streets of a visible law enforcement presence.

 

Labour’s attempts to make political capital out of the disorder have been little short of outrageous. The majority of the rioters have grown up since 1997. They are Labour’s children.

 

Ed Miliband may have made a few of the right noises, but he can’t help looking like a teenage rioter whose mum has made him put on a suit for his court appearance. Harriet Harman and Red Ken have plumbed new depths of cynicism, even by their own shameless standards. And has it occurred to Ed Balls that every time he blames ‘the rich’ for all Britain’s ills, his words are echoed by rioters as justification for torching small businesses?

 

He may claim he’s having a pop at bankers and non-doms, but on the streets the ‘rich’ are anyone who has achieved something in life, from the owners of the local family furniture store to the proprietors of Patel’s Multimart and Papandreou’s Hair Salon — anyone, in fact, who is perceived to have more than them.

 

This is where the politics of envy and class hatred end up. In flames. Parliament was recalled, though goodness knows why. Few of them looked as if they wanted to be there. More passion and anger was generated over phone-hacking. Cameron handled himself pretty well after recovering from a false start, when he hesitated to interrupt his Tuscan holiday.

 

Now the Prime Minister has a once-in-a-career chance to seize the initiative, free up the police to tackle crime properly, build more prisons, scrap the Yuman Rites Act, bring in far more radical welfare reform than is currently being proposed, and use the tax and education systems to promote stable two-parent families.

 

The public mood is behind him and if the Lib Dems throw a hissy fit he could tell them to go to hell and call an election. He’d be up against the BBC and the entire ‘liberal’ establishment, but he’d win.

 

Sadly, I fear he won’t take this brief opportunity, any more than the courts will hand down exemplary sentences to those rioters who have been apprehended. Predictably, some have already been let off with small fines and conditional discharges.

 

Probation officers are probably ordering a fleet of coaches to take the ring-leaders to Alton Towers to teach them the error of their ways. Why not just cut out the middle man and buy them all a nice flat-screen TV, instead.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2025021/UK-riots-2011-The-politics-envy-bound-end-flames.html#ixzz1Up3zGGg5

 

Is he dune's dad? A few good points in there, hidden somewhat by the ridiculous.

[ecuk268]

Maybe, but there is a case to suggest the jobs taken by the large migrant worker population should have been filled by Brits. Go to any care home, hospital or building site and you'll see huge numbers of migrant workers doing (so called) menial or not so menial jobs. I reckon the jobs have always been there, but there is a strata of society that chooses not to work these jobs because a) the jobs are not "valued" by society (whatever that means) b) they are hard work and require dedication and c) it's easier to toss it off on benefits, whilst supplementing this income with the odd bit of tea leafing / drug dealing along the way.

 

There's a free labour market in the EU. The Eastern Europeans have got off their arses and come to a foreign country to work. They get the jobs because they turn up on time and work hard.

 

Channel 4 did a programme last year from Lincolnshire where there is a large population of migrant workers on the farms. While some of the locals moaned about them "taking our jobs", when they took a local farmer down to the Job Centre he couldn't find one person to work on his farm. They didn't want to start work at 6.00 or be outside when it was cold and wet (the poor things).

[franny]

Anecdotal evidence from the court cases so far suggests that the majority of those rioting were in work..

 

Interesting, on C4 news this evening I think they suggested across the country only 7% (memory could be worng) chose to give an occupation to the court. I suspect the media simply highlight those that are in work.

[Verbal]

Interesting, on C4 news this evening I think they suggested across the country only 7% (memory could be worng) chose to give an occupation to the court. I suspect the media simply highlight those that are in work.

 

The figures were 3% in the north, 7% in the Midlands and 18% in London, where there were many more arrests and cases heard obviously. The Mail in particular seems to be gleefully highlighting those middle class looters (models, athletes, organic chefs, etc). So not the majority, clearly. The clearest pattern to emerge from the statistics is the relative lack of patterns. They are by no means, as the other thread suggests 'all black', nor are they all unemployed or council tenants or children, etc. The only clear pattern is that all but a few were under 25.

[Special K]

Anecdotal evidence from the court cases so far suggests that the majority of those rioting were in work.

 

What's happened over the last few days shouldn't be dumped on the unemployed generally.

 

I prefer evidence to be factual, not anecdotal.

[Verbal]

I prefer evidence to be factual, not anecdotal.

 

And your conclusions jumped.

[ecuk268]

Toxteth and Brixton in '81, Poll Tax in '90 and now Tottenham.

 

You only get decent riots under the Tories.

[Viking Warrior]

verbal you have shown your liberal colours as usual. Im not a straw man as you elequently put it. The TV has been full of apologists/do gooders on the various news programmes

trying to justify the action of the thugs and looters.

The thought of using water cannons in england was repulsed by loads of human rights activists.

 

If I became a criminal lawyer I think I would be a succesful one !!

[Verbal]

Not that I wish to exacerbate my Devil's Advocateness, but.....I believe they are referring to the underlying current of 'liberalness' that has reigned-in the natural instincts of the Tory party (to a certain degree)

 

In other words, it's the clamour of both main parties to secure the centre ground, i.e. the part of society that is typically underpinned by liberal values, that has diluted what the Tories would instinctively instigate, particularly in the area of law and order.

 

There again, maybe not...

 

The 'natural instincts' of the Tory Party? What the hell are they? Are you saying that a culture of civil rights is absent the Tory mind? That's a pretty extraordinary claim to make.

 

Anyway, history shows that Tories (and their supporters) are really liberals in need of a good f uck. (I give you Earl Gray, a dull, conformist Tory politician who became a Whig PM and saw through the Great Reform Act of 1832, but only after a chandelier-swinging affair with the seriously left-wing Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire).

[manji]

Has anyone considered the reason a lot of the charged rioters are middle class because the ones that were caught by the police were not very street wise.

[View From The Top]

Is he dune's dad? A few good points in there, hidden somewhat by the ridiculous.

 

And that's the problem. There are plenty that both the sensible right and left agree on regarding the London riots (those in B'ham/Manchester being just copycat theft) but with so many c*ks wrapping it all up in pathetic rhetoric those points get lost in the bickering.

[Prince Jazzbo]

Toxteth and Brixton in '81, Poll Tax in '90 and now Tottenham.

 

You only get decent riots under the Tories.

 

What about the Oldham, Burnley and Bradford riots in 2001

[aintforever]

Has anyone considered the reason a lot of the charged rioters are middle class because the ones that were caught by the police were not very street wise.

 

It's because the middle class have more than their fare share of greedy scum.

 

If anything I expect a higher percentage of the middle class kids caught got were let off without charge. that's usually the case. The black council estate kid gets a truncheon over the head and chucked in the meat waggon, the middle class white kid gets told to go home to mummy and daddy or they'll be in trouble.

[pap]

Beee-ump!

 

Lock em all up?

 

Influx of prisoners after riots 'fuelling gang culture'.