Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 It is slightly amusing that the first thing the "protesters" did was to empty out pc world. Again, we need to differentiate between protesters and rioters/looters. Initially there was protesters, then their cause was taken over by opportunistic anarchists etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 If the mod's "did their ****ing (why always the aggressions btw?) jobs" you'd be banned for the homophobic comments you made on here directed at me recently. Still genuinely shocked that someone with such a "Alf Garnett" view on same sex relationships can teach children in 2011 Britain, seriously what would you do if a confused 15 year old boy or girl came to you and asked your opinion on a crush they were developing on a school friend of the same sex? You're still peddling this? Give it up mate. You're the one who attached a homophobic meaning to it, but anyway, we are going off topic. Feel free to PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 Well, I think they have demonstrated this weekend why the police do (positively, to catch crims) discriminate with stop and searches et al. This is just outright theft by these people, they have lived up to their stereotypes... and then they went out and did it for a second night. National service for these people in my opinion. Not only are they turning our capital into some kind of american ghetto slum, they are now damaging property which we will now have to pay for - regardless of the drain on our stuggling benefits systems... this is not the behaviour of civilised people, this is the work of savages! Dunce's questions was 'what do they have to protest about'? I answered him. I'll say it AGAIN, at no point have I condoned the looting/rioting. In doing so they have taken the pressure and the focus from what was shocking behaviour by the police in the first instance to shoot an innocent man. If I was a genuine protester over the shooting I would be sorely ****ed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 The guy had a gun, he didn't give the gun up, so, consequences. I fail to see why all the nonsense? Maybe if all those bums got jobs/stayed in education and stopped having too many kids that will be brought up the same, there wouldn't be a problem. Instead, no, let's pose and pretend we're gangsters, wait for handouts and have loads of sprogs. If I walked round my village "protesting" and set fire to a few things, you could guarantee that my "community" would lynch me and want me in prison. It's just not the done thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 From the BBC The IPCC has confirmed that a non-police gun was found at the scene and a bullet was found lodged in a police officer's radio. Continue reading the main story “ Start Quote It does tie the hands of the police and, to some extent, tie the hands of our ability to be able to talk about what happened” End Quote Claudia Webbe Operation Trident advisory group Speculation that Mr Duggan was "assassinated" in an execution style involving a number of shots to the head were "categorically untrue", the commission added. The IPCC refused to comment on a report in the Guardian newspaper that the bullet found in the radio was police issue - and therefore had not been fired by Mr Duggan. I see its the guardian who are suggesting the police shot themselves. I forgot Mr Duggan was a caring well liked bastion of society. or was he a gangsta that had no respect for society , law an order Thje pictures I have seen off him would suggest he was not someone to be messed with but then again pictures can be doctored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 Worth reading this whole article http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/police-attack-london-burns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 (edited) Cameron should be returning from his holiday. He is (meant) to be in charge after all. Instead we are left with a dithering Cleggy while Dave sips wine and George plays on the water slides. Edited 8 August, 2011 by LGTL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 What happened to 'innocent until proven guilty'? Have you even read what I put. I said that the protesting was hijacked, I've never condoned the rioting - please keep up. If, and it is an if, the guy shot at the police then the matter must be dealt with as the police see it. There is no opportunity in those cicumstances to determine guilt. Your second point is tenuous. Various people protested, we are told peacefully. They demanded answers from the police, did not get them so their protest became non peaceful. Thus a riot ensued from the protest, and thereafter increased in scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swannymere Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 It's coming to the point where if you're in the vicinity of a riot then i think the police should treat you as fair game and water cannon, tazer or rubber bullet your ass, all this human rights ******** just seems to help the offenders in most cases as far as i can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 Cameron should be returning from his holiday. He is (meant) to be in charge after all. Instead we are left with a dithering Cleggy while Dave sips wine and George plays on the water slides. As should Boris - it's on his patch, after all! http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/poll/2011/aug/08/boris-johnson-holiday-london-rioting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 If, and it is an if, the guy shot at the police then the matter must be dealt with as the police see it. There is no opportunity in those cicumstances to determine guilt. Your second point is tenuous. Various people protested, we are told peacefully. They demanded answers from the police, did not get them so their protest became non peaceful. Thus a riot ensued from the protest, and thereafter increased in scale. So, are you saying that when people have legitimate questions that remain unanswered, they shouldn't have the right to make a peaceful protest? And that, somehow, it's their fault a load of disaffected youths decided to loot and riot? Or have I misunderstood you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightysaints Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 What we need to try and sort out is why are the Black Affro kids so angry. Its to easy to put this down to Stereo Typing. We need to spend big on stopping the Gang Culture and show that there is another way. Shutting down community centres and a lack of funding is going to make the situation worse in the areas hit over the weekend. There is no excuse for what happend either as this was organised. The Left will attack the Police, The Right will say the Police were to soft. Both ways don't work. We have to find a middle way, positive descrimmination does'nt work either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 I'm thinking about going to Tottenham this afternoon to get a new TV but I can't make my mind up where to buy it from. The Red Lion or The Fox and Hounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 So, are you saying that when people have legitimate questions that remain unanswered, they shouldn't have the right to make a peaceful protest? And that, somehow, it's their fault a load of disaffected youths decided to loot and riot? Or have I misunderstood you? Nothing wrong with peaceful protest. Nothing wrong with asking questions. Much wrong in turning angry when questions not answered on demand. The initial protest turned angry - people overlook that. That angry reaction was the catalyst for what followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 Nothing wrong with peaceful protest. Nothing wrong with asking questions. Much wrong in turning angry when questions not answered on demand. The initial protest turned angry - people overlook that. That angry reaction was the catalyst for what followed. As long as it's made clear that the two groups are disparate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 So, are you saying that when people have legitimate questions that remain unanswered, they shouldn't have the right to make a peaceful protest? And that, somehow, it's their fault a load of disaffected youths decided to loot and riot? Or have I misunderstood you? According to the Guardian article that you posted above, it states that around 100 people marched on the Police station 'demanding justice'. I'm not entirely sure what they were after with their demands for justice, but I can't imagine that it would be particularly peaceful. I agree that they have the right to have some questions answered, I just don't believe that they have acted in a way that we would consider - in polite society - the right way to have those questions heard! The police have already stated that there is an independent investigation being carried out, quite how they thought that would give results in 48 hours is beyond me. Perhaps they should wait, as I'm sure most people would do, until the coroner's court is assembled, and raise their questions there. That is after all the system we have in this country isn't it? Unless of course you're saying that it is acceptable that every time someone has a complaint / question for the police, they should round up a hundred or so mates, march to the police station and 'demand justice' for themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 Cameron should be returning from his holiday. He is (meant) to be in charge after all. Instead we are left with a dithering Cleggy while Dave sips wine and George plays on the water slides. I would be intrigued to know what exactly he would add to this situation apart from a few meaningless soundbites about the met doing a difficult job and that his sympathies go out to the family of the dead man etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 If Modric just says he will stay one more season, then everything will calm down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 If I thought my partner / son / brother had been killed in, let's say, dubious circumstances, then yes I would ask my family and friends to go with me to the local police station to ask for answers. From the article: "If a senior police officer had come to speak to us, we would have left. We arrived at 5pm, we had planned a one-hour silent protest. We were there until 9pm. Police were absolutely culpable. Had they been more responsive when we arrived at the police station, asking for a senior officer to talk with the family, we would have left the vicinity before the unrest started. "It is unforgivable police refused dialogue. We know the history here – how can Tottenham have a guy killed by police on Thursday, and resist requests for dialogue from the community 48 hours later?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 Apparently all Tottenham players believe that the rioting will not affect the mental state of the team, however manager Harry Redknapp is getting a bit twitchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 If I thought my partner / son / brother had been killed in, let's say, dubious circumstances, then yes I would ask my family and friends to go with me to the local police station to ask for answers. From the article: "If a senior police officer had come to speak to us, we would have left. We arrived at 5pm, we had planned a one-hour silent protest. We were there until 9pm. Police were absolutely culpable. Had they been more responsive when we arrived at the police station, asking for a senior officer to talk with the family, we would have left the vicinity before the unrest started. "It is unforgivable police refused dialogue. We know the history here – how can Tottenham have a guy killed by police on Thursday, and resist requests for dialogue from the community 48 hours later?" Is it realistic to march down to the police station en masse and expect answers from a senior officer? Is it right to become violent when answers are not given? Is it right for others to piggy back that violence in the name of the deceased and/or being disadvantaged and/or some other excuse? No to all from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 Is it realistic to march down to the police station en masse and expect answers from a senior officer? If a white middle class person was gunned down in dubious circumstances in Hedge End do you think it's realistic that the Police would just blank the friends and family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 Is it realistic to march down to the police station en masse and expect answers from a senior officer? Is it right to become violent when answers are not given? Is it right for others to piggy back that violence in the name of the deceased and/or being disadvantaged and/or some other excuse? No to all from me. But the family and friends asking the questions were not the ones who turned violent. In fact there are some reports (unsubstantiated) that a police officer hit one of the family with a baton. It beggars belief that the police couldn't find a senior officer to come to talk to the family - unless of course they were too busy getting their reports to match (sarcastic comment and in no way implying that the police would lie). When people see politicians cheating on expenses, bankers earning millions in bonuses for failing (and making the rest of us pay the price) and police taking back-handers for information to a crooked press, is it any wonder ordinary people asking perfectly valid questions get frustrated when they get fobbed off without answers? I'd get frustrated too, if that happened to me. I wouldn't resort to violence, and from all that I've read, they didn't either. It was others, piggy-backing on their protest that caused the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 But the family and friends asking the questions were not the ones who turned violent. In fact there are some reports (unsubstantiated) that a police officer hit one of the family with a baton. It beggars belief that the police couldn't find a senior officer to come to talk to the family - unless of course they were too busy getting their reports to match (sarcastic comment and in no way implying that the police would lie). When people see politicians cheating on expenses, bankers earning millions in bonuses for failing (and making the rest of us pay the price) and police taking back-handers for information to a crooked press, is it any wonder ordinary people asking perfectly valid questions get frustrated when they get fobbed off without answers? I'd get frustrated too, if that happened to me. I wouldn't resort to violence, and from all that I've read, they didn't either. It was others, piggy-backing on their protest that caused the problems. The initial protestors turned violent from everything I have heard and read. That was the catalyst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 When people see politicians cheating on expenses, bankers earning millions in bonuses for failing (and making the rest of us pay the price) and police taking back-handers for information to a crooked press, is it any wonder ordinary people asking perfectly valid questions get frustrated when they get fobbed off without answers? In a civilised country you don't riot and loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 The initial protestors turned violent from everything I have heard and read. That was the catalyst. Duggan's fiancee, Semone Wilson, 29, said the family had not wanted trouble, only answers. "When we were outside the police station last night we wanted someone to come out. We want some answers. I have not even told my children that he is dead because we cannot give them any answers." Of the violence, Wilson said: "I am not happy about what has happened. We didn't want this trouble. We wanted some answers." Shaun Hall, Duggan's older brother, said the family was "not condoning any kind of actions like that at all, or for this [action] to be taken in my brother's name". He appealed to people in the community who were frustrated and angry to "try and hold it down". The family were "devastated" at his death, with "the most gruelling" thing for Duggan's parents being that nobody had officially informed them what had happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 Has Winston Silcott turned up yet with his machete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 Cameron should be returning from his holiday. He is (meant) to be in charge after all. Instead we are left with a dithering Cleggy while Dave sips wine and George plays on the water slides. Yeah. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 shocking behaviour by the police in the first instance to shoot an innocent man Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 Source? The bullet that was supposedly fired by him was a police issue bullet, which means that he couldn't have fired it unless he'd robbed a police station/officer. Which wouldn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 BTF...many were/are just a bunch of pikeys on the rob....I used to live in north london and places like that are like hell on earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 If a white middle class person was gunned down in dubious circumstances in Hedge End do you think it's realistic that the Police would just blank the friends and family? oh....so its about race is it now...? did the police help out raul moats family..?...suspect not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 (edited) Source? Today's issues of the Guardian and the 'I'. I guess we will just have to wait and see when the full ballistics report is published. Unlike others on here, I'll have no problem retracting my assumption if I'm proved wrong. Edited 8 August, 2011 by Thorpe-le-Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 Are bullets that unique, that there is no way this gun carrying gangster could possible have had the same type/make or whatever as the police? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 BTF...many were/are just a bunch of pikeys on the rob....I used to live in north london and places like that are like hell on earth Yes I know that, and that was kind of the point I made in an earlier post when I said "'And that, somehow, it's their fault a load of disaffected youths decided to loot and riot?" I lived in North London (many years ago 'tis true) and it was pretty rough then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 i grew up round there, it's an absolute shlthole, and people like thorpe quoting on here haven't got a f*cking clue, loads of the black youths can't wait to get into gangs, bragging at school about the blades they carry and the things they have robbed, all that ****** about oppression from the police stop and search, the reason they do is because a high percentage of them are tooled up. to sort it out they should let that chap in Norway out for a day in Tottenham he'll soon sort the rioters out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 Are bullets that unique, that there is no way this gun carrying gangster could possible have had the same type/make or whatever as the police? Sorry it's a bit long, but this might answer your question: The Guardian's crime correspondent, Sandra Laville, reports: The revelation will fuel the fury in Tottenham about the killing of Mark Duggan by armed officers. It also undermines suggestions that there was an exchange of fire between Duggan and the police before he died. The bullet which was found lodged in the radio of one of the officers at the scene is still undergoing forensic tests. But reliable sources have said the first ballistics examinations suggested it was a police issue bullet. These are very distinct as the Metropolitan Police uses dum dum type hollowed out bullets designed not to pass through an object. The early suggestion from the IPCC was that the Met officers had returned fire after someone in the minicab opened fire. But the result of the ballistics early test suggests both shots fired came from the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 Yes I know that, and that was kind of the point I made in an earlier post when I said "'And that, somehow, it's their fault a load of disaffected youths decided to loot and riot?" I lived in North London (many years ago 'tis true) and it was pretty rough then. As you previously mentioned, the 100 strong peaceful protest to elicit answers from a senior police officer, intended to stay for one hour, but were still there at 9.00pm. From the Guardian article that you posted earlier - see 'timeline' at the bottom of the article : 6 August, 8.20pm Two police cars parked about 200 yards from the police station are set alight. Riots break out in which windows are smashed, a petrol bomb thrown, and buildings set on fire. A double decker bus is also set alight. Police try to break up the crowd but bottles and other missiles are thrown at them. Seems to be a bit of a coincidence that just 200 yards from the police station where the 'peaceful' protest was happening, all of a sudden two police cars are set alight! I would bet good money that some of those involved in the peaceful protest were involved in that arson. I'm not sure why you've taken it upon yourself to defend these people BTF. Let's face it, there are some nasty people in this country. I would wager that the brother of a gun toting gangster [A gun was found at the scene, as verified by the Guardian], is probably one of those nasty people, and would probably be capable of setting fires to police cars - all in my humble opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 Race is definitely an issue. Black people feel like they're victimised by the Police. That's because they are. Some of my black mates get stopped 2/3 times a week just because they have the audacity to own and drive a decent car. The Met has admitted that it is institutionally racist. Look at how long the Stephen Lawrence case has dragged on. Or the Panorama secret investigations. The Met are also trigger happy. Just look at the shooting of Juan Charles de Menezes at Stockwell Tube station, or indeed, the shooting of Mark Duggan. Racist and trigger happy is not a good combination. The genie was let out of the bottle in the 1980s when the police were given carte blanche to crack down on the miners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 This is funnier than the cr*p joke thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 i grew up round there, it's an absolute shlthole, and people like thorpe quoting on here haven't got a f*cking clue, loads of the black youths can't wait to get into gangs, bragging at school about the blades they carry and the things they have robbed, all that ****** about oppression from the police stop and search, the reason they do is because a high percentage of them are tooled up. to sort it out they should let that chap in Norway out for a day in Tottenham he'll soon sort the rioters out. I believe Scotland Yard are flying him over tonight, all Robocop'd up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 As you previously mentioned, the 100 strong peaceful protest to elicit answers from a senior police officer, intended to stay for one hour, but were still there at 9.00pm. From the Guardian article that you posted earlier - see 'timeline' at the bottom of the article : 6 August, 8.20pm Two police cars parked about 200 yards from the police station are set alight. Riots break out in which windows are smashed, a petrol bomb thrown, and buildings set on fire. A double decker bus is also set alight. Police try to break up the crowd but bottles and other missiles are thrown at them. Seems to be a bit of a coincidence that just 200 yards from the police station where the 'peaceful' protest was happening, all of a sudden two police cars are set alight! I would bet good money that some of those involved in the peaceful protest were involved in that arson. I'm not sure why you've taken it upon yourself to defend these people BTF. Let's face it, there are some nasty people in this country. I would wager that the brother of a gun toting gangster [A gun was found at the scene, as verified by the Guardian], is probably one of those nasty people, and would probably be capable of setting fires to police cars - all in my humble opinion of course. Two quick points: 1. I'm not defending the rioting and looting. I think it's disgraceful and I feel very sorry for the innocent folk in the area who have had their homes and businesses destroyed. They must be feeling very frightened. 2. I understood from the article that the reason that the dead man's family were there much longer than they'd planned was because no senior police officer came to talk to them. That is very wrong. Oh, and a third point - what gives you the right to label the dead man's brother 'a nasty person and probably capable of setting fires to police cars'? Do you know the man? I don't and I've formed no opinion about him, other than he's grieving for his dead brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 i grew up round there, it's an absolute shlthole, and people like thorpe quoting on here haven't got a f*cking clue, loads of the black youths can't wait to get into gangs, bragging at school about the blades they carry and the things they have robbed, all that ****** about oppression from the police stop and search, the reason they do is because a high percentage of them are tooled up. to sort it out they should let that chap in Norway out for a day in Tottenham he'll soon sort the rioters out. You're not the first person to think this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 You're not the first person to think this. I forget about your long stint of living in this particular area of north London. My apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 I forget about your long stint of living in this particular area of north London. My apologies. My grandfather was born and raised in Tottenham and i'll have you know it was a nice area before the influx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 My grandfather was born and raised in Tottenham and i'll have you know it was a nice area before the influx. Brilliant. My nan was born and raised in Sholing, but that doesn't mean I know anything about it. Hopefully this makes my point slightly clearer for you dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 My grandfather was born and raised in Tottenham and i'll have you know it was a nice area before the influx. So the 'influx' are the problem, are they? It's a gross over-simplification that ignores the fact that when immigrants started arriving from the colonies, white people treated them appallingly. Ok, so we are all products of our times. The people who had to deal with immigration at that point in time were less equipped to deal with different cultures than we are now. So if you've arrived somewhere, the natives are treating you like shyte, and the only people that'll give you the time of day are your own immigrant compatriots, doesn't take a genius to work out what happens next. While we can't go back and correct the attitudes of the 1950s, we can at least try and assess where we are now and suggest solutions. What are yours, dune? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 Brilliant. My nan was born and raised in Sholing, but that doesn't mean I know anything about it. Hopefully this makes my point slightly clearer for you dear. You know little about anything so clearly I would not assume you knew anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 You know little about anything so clearly I would not assume you knew anything about it. Another well thought out and provactive point well made. Can't you use the PM facility in future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 8 August, 2011 Share Posted 8 August, 2011 we can at least try and assess where we are now and suggest solutions. What are yours, dune? http://www.bnp.org.uk/policies/immigration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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