Barry the Badger Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Now labour and the Tories going at it on newsnight. I thought maybe once they could put it to one side, ********. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Numerous reports of fires in Liverpool tonight. I've heard a few sirens so far. It is all kickin' off, la. Nothing around here yet, thank feck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Just had a text from a mate in manchester, 12 buildings on fire and the centre well on the way to being trashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Yes, if you lock them up they can't riot and cause misery. Once that's done, the govt should grow some balls, stop the PC diversity ******** and human rights act and show these idiots that if they commit crimes, then they will face the punishment. We owe them nothing. They riot because they can, not because of some social deprivation issue. That's what the left wing apologists would have us believe, but it doesn't wash with me. They respect nothing and deserve nothing You're entitled to your opinion, but I think we're poles apart in terms of resolution, so lets agree to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swannymere Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Via Twitter and #OperationCupOfTea Waterstone's Ealing: 'We're staying open. If they want to steal our books, then they might learn something.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Some unconfirmed twitter reports that the EDL are in Toxteth stirring up ye olde racial hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Police station firebombed in Nottingham. Liverpool is flaring up again. However, Manchester has had it the worst tonight. Lives ruined. Totally unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guan 2.0 Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 http://www.twitvid.com/DWZPW What/where is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Sikh Temple on Smithdown Road, Liverpool on fire. Massed yobs trying to break into ASDA opposite. ^^^ not a response the the above question, just what's happening now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 http://www.twitvid.com/DWZPW What/where is this? Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Love how BBC News has the 'local' time when reporting from Birmingham. Says '01:25', should read '1981'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Proper going off in Liverpool, according to Twitter. Mate of mine lives near the riots - says it is "f*cking scary". Reckon it's being underreported on The Indy's leading article is Britain has experienced its Katrina moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUS Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 http://www.twitvid.com/DWZPW What/where is this? Enfield apparently. Locals chasing away looters when the police were struggling. Fair play to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Nice to see the Met continue to take this really seriously. You know that whole "We'll track you down and you'll feel the full force of the law" stuff They've released CCTV images http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024120/London-riots-2011-suspects-Photos-released-know-looters.html TWELVE of them... Wow, did TWELVE people really cause all that mayhem and outwit the 6,000 Officers on duty over the weekend? No wonder everyone else is still at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Getting pathetic Kids... KIDS are doing this because no one stops them. We are so toothless in keeping the law. Utterly embarrassing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Getting pathetic Kids... KIDS are doing this because no one stops them. We are so toothless in keeping the law. Utterly embarrassing But it is so much more than embarrassing. We all watched in "amazement" as the Arab Spring brought a sea change in Tunisia & Egypt and marvelled at how fast the Governments there seemed to simply lose their "Iron Grip" on their countries. What is scary is how fast "Authorities" have lost control of English City Centres, and to (in reality) such small numbers. 2,000 rioters in Manchester according to some reports - less than a "Massive" of Away Football fans (apart from Poopey's) To have lost control to so few, so young and so quickly is a scary slap from reality that the "Authorities" really couldn't cope with real or organised Social Unrest. Obviously this is not "an uprising" but the loss of control so quickly draws some parallels. These next days really are critical, the so called crackdowns REALLY have to happen and people REALLY need to be rounded up. Because if the outcome is ONLY to restore order and NOT to show that this doesn't "Pay" then what is to stop this happening again and again. Want something? Just go take it. THAT mentality getting even stronger is scary. And also, for the deprivation apologists, how come it doesn't (yet) seem to have kicked off in the Inner City areas in Scotland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Nice to see the Met continue to take this really seriously. You know that whole "We'll track you down and you'll feel the full force of the law" stuff They've released CCTV images http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024120/London-riots-2011-suspects-Photos-released-know-looters.html TWELVE of them... Wow, did TWELVE people really cause all that mayhem and outwit the 6,000 Officers on duty over the weekend? No wonder everyone else is still at it Maybe it's more efficient to target a few ring leaders or main protagonists than go for the broad brush approach of putting up hundreds or thousands of faces? The 'less is more' philosophy. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Maybe it's more efficient to target a few ring leaders or main protagonists than go for the broad brush approach of putting up hundreds or thousands of faces? The 'less is more' philosophy. Who knows. Just stop them looting willy nilly at the scene and dish out harsh measures at the scene I wonder how long a looter cries police brutality when getting a few whacks from the stick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 ^^^^^^^ Yep. Once they see a few of their mates being dealt with they will soon calm down. Until then and/or the likes of tear gas etc are used they have no deterrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Getting pathetic Kids... KIDS are doing this because no one stops them. We are so toothless in keeping the law. Utterly embarrassing I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong Thedelldays but didn't I read on here recently that you were, on behalf of a mate, planning a revenge attack on a woman? Here it is. I'm not entirely sure how this... im thinking of suggesting to my mate to throw paint over the car and the bedroom window of her flat (which is ground floor on a side street).... anyone recommend a good bit of paint...? from this thread, is much different from someone tweeting that they are thinking about organising a riot. Hypocrite, or have I got that wrong? Just for the record I agree that the police should have acted quicker and more decisively than they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 They are already talking about what happens next on the news this morning. Mad night last night in Liverpool. Had to pick my daughter up at 5pm. Place was tense and eerily quiet. We then experienced on of the quietest nights going ( probs quieter than Christmas Day, tbh ). Started going off at 10pm, mainly in areas where it had happened before. Despite the posts that I've made on root causes, I'm not condoning what is going on and I don't deny that there is a massive element of greed and criminality driving this. I suppose my worry is that now these people have seen how easily all this stuff can be procured, it'll happen again. That said, over 50 people have now been arrested in the city over the last two nights - other places have arrested more. Hopefully, the police have got the ringleaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 I don't think it's an over-simplification. The motive for this seems very simple - kick off against the law because there are loads of people doing it and it's fun and when they can't stop us, let's see what we can nick from the shops. I suspect this is more the motive than a deep seated disaffection with society. Whilst i don't doubt the validity of some of that argument, it would pretty much mean that the billions spent over the last 30 years on social inclusion, housing upgrades, etc, etc, has been a complete waste of money. But i don't buy it; the wannabee gangstas of the estates would rather nick, threaten, lie and steal, as well as make life a fookin nightmare for the decent folk who live in the same place, than work and be a valuable member of society. However, I will be very interested to see the social profile of those nicked, charged and penalised for this. I bet a tenner that they are not all poverty stricken social outcasts from inner city ghettos. I agree with most of what you said there Special K but I think you've misunderstood the point I was trying to make. Perhaps I could have been clearer. Whilst it's obvious that if someone is wearing £100 trainers and has a £300 smart phone then they're not in poverty by a strict income test. But if they've only got those things through illegal means and if they didn't steal, scam, mug, deal or whatever to get the money to buy those things then they very well may be in poverty; then poverty has still plays a role in they're life. If they stop stealing, scamming mugging and dealling then they may well be in poverty. So to issue a glib sound-bite tweet that suggests that poverty obviously plays no part, to my mind is an over-simplification. And now the disclaimers because it seems that people make a lot of assumptions about what you think about these issues if you try to understand the root cause. If the fictional character above stole, scammed, mugged or dealt he should have the full weight of the law thrown against him. Poverty, or at least the lack of money in no way excuses any illegal action. However if we want to stop this scummy behaviour from continuing for generations to come then WE, as a society, have to find a way for some of our youth to move themselves out of poverty in a socially acceptable way. I also acknowledge that in these copy-cat riots we're now seeing more and more of the rioters appear to be simply disaffected youths looking for something to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 I agree with most of what you said there Special K but I think you've misunderstood the point I was trying to make. Perhaps I could have been clearer. Whilst it's obvious that if someone is wearing £100 trainers and has a £300 smart phone then they're not in poverty by a strict income test. But if they've only got those things through illegal means and if they didn't steal, scam, mug, deal or whatever to get the money to buy those things then they very well may be in poverty; then poverty has still plays a role in they're life. If they stop stealing, scamming mugging and dealling then they may well be in poverty. So to issue a glib sound-bite tweet that suggests that poverty obviously plays no part, to my mind is an over-simplification. And now the disclaimers because it seems that people make a lot of assumptions about what you think about these issues if you try to understand the root cause. If the fictional character above stole, scammed, mugged or dealt he should have the full weight of the law thrown against him. Poverty, or at least the lack of money in no way excuses any illegal action. However if we want to stop this scummy behaviour from continuing for generations to come then WE, as a society, have to find a way for some of our youth to move themselves out of poverty in a socially acceptable way. I also acknowledge that in these copy-cat riots we're now seeing more and more of the rioters appear to be simply disaffected youths looking for something to do. Please tell us your definition of poverty in England in 2011? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 I agree with most of what you said there Special K but I think you've misunderstood the point I was trying to make. Perhaps I could have been clearer. Whilst it's obvious that if someone is wearing £100 trainers and has a £300 smart phone then they're not in poverty by a strict income test. But if they've only got those things through illegal means and if they didn't steal, scam, mug, deal or whatever to get the money to buy those things then they very well may be in poverty; then poverty has still plays a role in they're life. If they stop stealing, scamming mugging and dealling then they may well be in poverty. So to issue a glib sound-bite tweet that suggests that poverty obviously plays no part, to my mind is an over-simplification. And now the disclaimers because it seems that people make a lot of assumptions about what you think about these issues if you try to understand the root cause. If the fictional character above stole, scammed, mugged or dealt he should have the full weight of the law thrown against him. Poverty, or at least the lack of money in no way excuses any illegal action. However if we want to stop this scummy behaviour from continuing for generations to come then WE, as a society, have to find a way for some of our youth to move themselves out of poverty in a socially acceptable way. I also acknowledge that in these copy-cat riots we're now seeing more and more of the rioters appear to be simply disaffected youths looking for something to do. Oh and we have found "to stop this scummy behaviour from continuing for generations to come then WE, as a society, have to find a way for some of our youth to move themselves out of poverty in a socially acceptable way" - it's called f*****g WORK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Having visited Kenya I can safely say that we do not have poverty in this country. My sister is ok btw though she was in the metro this morning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong Thedelldays but didn't I read on here recently that you were, on behalf of a mate, planning a revenge attack on a woman? Here it is. I'm not entirely sure how this... from this thread, is much different from someone tweeting that they are thinking about organising a riot. Hypocrite, or have I got that wrong? Just for the record I agree that the police should have acted quicker and more decisively than they have. haha, bullseye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Here are a couple of interesting articles: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14463452 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14463452 To all those who make assumptions about me, let me state (again) 1. I find the rioting and looting utterly abhorrent 2. I'm not seeking to condone or excuse the rioting or looting. But it's worth reading these articles to get the thought processes working. You may well still look for the 'sticking plaster' solution, but at least you will have considered what people at the coal face think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Some unconfirmed twitter reports that the EDL are in Toxteth stirring up ye olde racial hatred. It wouldn't surprise me if that far right scum were sticking their ores in. Along with these self proclaimed "heroes of England" vigilante groups it will only be a matter of time before you have one group of scum attacking another group of scum. Let's not forget that for years they had this problem in Northern Ireland with Catholic groups running around and handing out 'punishments' to those in their local communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefunkygibbons Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Was in Greenwich last night and then drove into the centre of town The Police presence was over whelming In addition, everyweher was closed and it took ages to find a toilet The Centre of town was still open for business and everything was pretty normal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Simple, they want to feel 'part of things', they want 'work', they want to be 'respected', then the solution is there Prime Minister, get the lazy scumbags to work for their benifits. Make them clean the streets/countryside, make then clean graffiti, make them dredge our rivers and canals. There are many things that need doing, so get these no-gooders, out of their beds in the morning, and give them what they claim they want. Yeh right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Oh and we have found "to stop this scummy behaviour from continuing for generations to come then WE, as a society, have to find a way for some of our youth to move themselves out of poverty in a socially acceptable way" - it's called f*****g WORK! I can see you've obviously thought this through Sour Mash. But I might have spotted a flaw in your otherwise excellent plan. What if these people don't want to change, don't want to join the society that you and I know, don't want to f*****g WORK? Society still has a problem. Losing control and swearing at them isn't going to solve it I fear. What do you do? Lock them up? Our courts hold no fear for them. We have a prison service that is over-crowded as it is? Build more prisons? We're a little strapped for cash at the moment but maybe that's an option. But again I fear still more would come to take their place. My feeling would be that this behaviour will simply continue for generations and now that the rioters/looters see they can overpower the police there really is nothing to stop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Here are a couple of interesting articles: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14463452 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14463452 To all those who make assumptions about me, let me state (again) 1. I find the rioting and looting utterly abhorrent 2. I'm not seeking to condone or excuse the rioting or looting. But it's worth reading these articles to get the thought processes working. You may well still look for the 'sticking plaster' solution, but at least you will have considered what people at the coal face think. Agree with the article - and think the parallels with hooliganism aren't a million miles away, though crowd psychology in each case is manifested in very different ways. Throw in not giving a f**k coz you've got nothing to lose, and its a tinder box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Oh and we have found "to stop this scummy behaviour from continuing for generations to come then WE, as a society, have to find a way for some of our youth to move themselves out of poverty in a socially acceptable way" - it's called f*****g WORK! Appreciate the sentiment, but doesn't that rely on there being enough work in the first place? Even if there is enough work, what about the effect on unspent criminal convictions? In theory, it's a great solution. In practice, the jobs need to exist and be attainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Please tell us your definition of poverty in England in 2011? I'm not sure the definition changes much from year to year or from country to country to be honest. It's something like having little money, being poor. The state or condition of being poor; need or scarcity of means of subsistence; needy circumstances; indigence; penury. From here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 It wouldn't surprise me if that far right scum were sticking their ores in. Along with these self proclaimed "heroes of England" vigilante groups it will only be a matter of time before you have one group of scum attacking another group of scum. What the f**k are you on about? Trust the likes of you to belittle normal folk out to protect their communities. The silent majority of this country have had enough of the softly, softly approach of authorities to groups of individuals that have made many parts of our inner cities dangerous places to live. Thank god there are still people who are happy to put their neck on the line to stand up to these groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Appreciate the sentiment, but doesn't that rely on there being enough work in the first place? Even if there is enough work, what about the effect on unspent criminal convictions? In theory, it's a great solution. In practice, the jobs need to exist and be attainable. What about them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 What about them? Well, if they're unspent, you have to declare them if asked about them. Depending on the nature of the offence, it could be a factor in whether you get employed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 I'm not sure the definition changes much from year to year or from country to country to be honest. It's something like having little money, being poor. From here. Its not just about being poor in an absolute sense - how much or little you have. What's more important to people'd wellbeing and outlook is how they are doing compared to others: how much more or less they have than the person next to them. A might seem comfortable on one measure but struggling on another - and vice-versa. That's why up to a point, you can't get away from inequality whether defined in terms of outcome or opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Appreciate the sentiment, but doesn't that rely on there being enough work in the first place? Even if there is enough work, what about the effect on unspent criminal convictions? In theory, it's a great solution. In practice, the jobs need to exist and be attainable. There are plenty of jobs available, even now in the economic downturn. Many of these rioting actually have a massive advantage in the job market as they live in free/heavily subsidised housing in central city locations, giving them easy access to places of work. All my local takeaways (I live in London) are staffed by very recent immigrants from the Indian sub-continent. The cleaners at my office and gym are all recently arrived Brazilians. There is plenty of work if you're happy to do it. The problem is the whole culture of kids growing up thinking "why should I do a s**ty job like that, much easier/cooler to rob/steal from others". Same with at school, yes not all schools in the inner cities are exactly great, but most are staffed with enthusiastic, good quality teachers that would love to have the opportunity to teach, engage with and improve these kids if they actually gave a f**k. The problem with apologists like you is that you do such a disservice to all the hard working, poor kids that come from council estates, one-parent families or whatever and make an effort, try a bit at school, do a cr@ppy job in McDs while they're in college and don't think "oh f**k this, its a bit of an effort, I'm going on the rob, it's a lot more fun/easier than all this". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Well, if they're unspent, you have to declare them if asked about them. Depending on the nature of the offence, it could be a factor in whether you get employed. Correct you do. However, there are companies out there that will take a punt on you if you are prepared to work hard and start at the bottom and show a bit of humility. There are always opportunites out there if you are prepared to take them. Another problem with these little mugs is their arrogance, they dont want to graft, dont want to work their way up, they want it all now and expect the rewards without putting in the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Here are a couple of interesting articles: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14463452 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14463452 To all those who make assumptions about me, let me state (again) 1. I find the rioting and looting utterly abhorrent 2. I'm not seeking to condone or excuse the rioting or looting. But it's worth reading these articles to get the thought processes working. You may well still look for the 'sticking plaster' solution, but at least you will have considered what people at the coal face think. Very interesting articles BTF. I know there are a number of people on here that either now or used to involve themselves in violence at football matches. I wonder if they can relate to the comments about people losing their moral identity, empathy and guilt in a large group? Anyone? [Legitimate question - not attempting to moralise or judge anyone!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 I'm not sure the definition changes much from year to year or from country to country to be honest. It's something like having little money, being poor. From here. "need or scarcity of means of subsistence; needy circumstances" what does that have to do with what has happened over the last three/four days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Here are a couple of interesting articles: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14463452 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14463452 To all those who make assumptions about me, let me state (again) 1. I find the rioting and looting utterly abhorrent 2. I'm not seeking to condone or excuse the rioting or looting. But it's worth reading these articles to get the thought processes working. You may well still look for the 'sticking plaster' solution, but at least you will have considered what people at the coal face think. Nothing particularly revealing. In a nutshell says that they know they can loot, that they get a buzz from it and can get stuf that they want. The big issue is how we stop this now and prevent a repeat. The possible reasons why this is happening do not assist. This is a law and order issue that needs tough handling, not namby pamby criminology assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Correct you do. However, there are companies out there that will take a punt on you if you are prepared to work hard and start at the bottom and show a bit of humility. There are always opportunites out there if you are prepared to take them. Another problem with these little mugs is their arrogance, they dont want to graft, dont want to work their way up, they want it all now and expect the rewards without putting in the effort. Sums it up for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Very interesting articles BTF. I know there are a number of people on here that either now or used to involve themselves in violence at football matches. I wonder if they can relate to the comments about people losing their moral identity, empathy and guilt in a large group? Anyone? [Legitimate question - not attempting to moralise or judge anyone!] Football violence has no link to this. Smashing up opposing fans has no resemblance, whether ideologically or otherwise, to smashing up your community and random businesses. Terrible analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 There are plenty of jobs available, even now in the economic downturn. Many of these rioting actually have a massive advantage in the job market as they live in free/heavily subsidised housing in central city locations, giving them easy access to places of work. All my local takeaways (I live in London) are staffed by very recent immigrants from the Indian sub-continent. The cleaners at my office and gym are all recently arrived Brazilians. There is plenty of work if you're happy to do it. The problem is the whole culture of kids growing up thinking "why should I do a s**ty job like that, much easier/cooler to rob/steal from others". Same with at school, yes not all schools in the inner cities are exactly great, but most are staffed with enthusiastic, good quality teachers that would love to have the opportunity to teach, engage with and improve these kids if they actually gave a f**k. The problem with apologists like you is that you do such a disservice to all the hard working, poor kids that come from council estates, one-parent families or whatever and make an effort, try a bit at school, do a cr@ppy job in McDs while they're in college and don't think "oh f**k this, its a bit of an effort, I'm going on the rob, it's a lot more fun/easier than all this". For the sake of argument, I'll take you on face value that there are plenty of jobs available, in London at least. I think you need to read my posts again tho. Where have I done a disservice to poor, working class kids from council estates? I'm one myself. That said, part of your analysis is correct. There are a lot of people who don't see the point in working, because it doesn't pay. Let's look at your cleaning and gym jobs, for example. Are they paying much more than minimum wage? Is minimum wage enough to make your way in London? If someone is one the dole, and their choice is between getting a massive rent paid by housing benefit, or doing a minimum-wage job for 40 hours a week on the bones of their ar-se, it's not a hard choice to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 What do you do? Lock them up? Our courts hold no fear for them. We have a prison service that is over-crowded as it is? Build more prisons? We're a little strapped for cash at the moment but maybe that's an option. According to this report: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14470017 at least one of our prisons is "demeaning, unsafe and fell below what could be classed as decent" so that's not really an option..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 According to this report: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14470017 some of our prisons are "demeaning, unsafe and fell below what could be classed as decent" so that's not really an option..... Sounds ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNorthernSaints Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 I notice that Waterstone's the bookshop, charity shops are not being looted, these feral underclass seem only interested in attacking places that sell White goods, phones, jewellery, high end footwear & clothing. Quelle Suprise !!! Just put troops on the street and supply them with live ammo and let them have free reign, bet the little buggers wont cause trouble then. Oxfam on Oldham Street Manchester broken into last night. Shop raising funds for poor people is now a target???? must be after some of my old clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 10 August, 2011 Share Posted 10 August, 2011 Correct you do. However, there are companies out there that will take a punt on you if you are prepared to work hard and start at the bottom and show a bit of humility. There are always opportunites out there if you are prepared to take them. Another problem with these little mugs is their arrogance, they dont want to graft, dont want to work their way up, they want it all now and expect the rewards without putting in the effort. Really depends on the employer, and fair play to those that do try to take a punt. Certain convictions, particularly theft or fraud, can pretty much throw your job prospects out of the window. On your second point, you're actually quite aligned with Verbal. People want instant gratification, or can't be a*sed with the effort. Tallies with his point on desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now