Thedelldays Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 all this is (oddly) brilliant advertisement for blackberry.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 noooooooooooooo arry redknapp own much of that area...fact Your right he does......or did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 This is the attitude I seriously can't stand and hold directly responsible for the state of this once great nation. So out of touch. Don't you see that the vast majority of this country's previously silent majority have had enough of the soft treatment of certain sections of society that are seemingly happy to make life hell for those around them. Loads of people grow up without any money, I used to play football over at my local park, didn't cost me a penny, same with a lot of mates who had bugger all money growing up - no flash trainers, hooded jackets and Blackberry Mobiles or Twitter accounts. You do such a diservice to all those decent people that don't have money, that do come from council estates, but work hard and try their best without resorting to being robbing, looting, bullying thugs. But, with respect, and without knowing how old you are - things have moved on. Way back, materialism was nowhere as rife as it is now. And people were judged on what they were like rather than what they had. In no way does this excuse the mob violence - I'm as appalled as everyone else on here. But I do ask myself, when did this obsession with possesion begin? Where did it come from? Is it all tied in with obsession with 'celebrity'? Does this country now rate fame and fortune as more important than hard work and honesty? Do young people look at some of their elders as good role models when some of those grown-ups sacrifice all integrity in the pursuit of money and fame? I don't know the answers but I'm prepared to try to understand underlying reasons if I can. That's why I'm asking questions. A head in the sand attitude helps no-one and only stores up trouble for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Further to trousers' excusing police inaction, I'd just like to add that there were threats of serious disorder in my borough (Hammersmith and Fulham), all of which were dealt with effectively by the police. The worst problem was in Fulham Broadway - but it was quickly slapped down. So among the carnage, there are a few lessons about how to do thing right... Cllr Greg Smith, H&F Council Cabinet Member for Residents' Services, says: "The scenes of violent thuggery, looting and criminal damage from across the capital are appalling. In H&F, the local Police did a fantastic job in keeping residents safe last night when other areas suffered so badly. There were serious risks of disorder in the borough that were successfully prevented and arrests made. “However, there is an ongoing situation across London and the Police remain on high alert. The council will assist the Police in generating convictions for any disorder that does occur locally by sharing CCTV and other intelligence. We will also radically pursue any council tenants who are proved guilty of being involved in criminal activity by seeking evictions where appropriate.” http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/Directory/News/London_disorder_local_update.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 but bridge too far is worried they can't afford to go swimming so have to riot instead, they should set a side more cash for fun, really bad budgeting by that community. Since I never said that at all, you're just showing your own ignorance there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 What if they can't afford Center Parks but can afford Butlins - is that a reason to riot? I think so. What if you can afford to go swimming at off-peak times, but not the peak hours? That's probably fair as well, why should they not have the "right"? What about if you can only afford one new pair of Nike Air max this month and you've seen someone else get two? Lots of people here are very poor and can't afford to go to the swimming pool. So in the summer they swim in the rivers and lakes instead. (Obviously this option is not available in the winter as all the rivers and lakes are frozen over.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 ditto I just cant stand people excusing these actions...or trying to in any way I'm not aware of one single poster on here attempting to excuse what's happening. A few are simply trying to understand why its happening. Nought wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 But, with respect, and without knowing how old you are - things have moved on. Way back, materialism was nowhere as rife as it is now. And people were judged on what they were like rather than what they had. In no way does this excuse the mob violence - I'm as appalled as everyone else on here. But I do ask myself, when did this obsession with possesion begin? Where did it come from? Is it all tied in with obsession with 'celebrity'? Does this country now rate fame and fortune as more important than hard work and honesty? Do young people look at some of their elders as good role models when some of those grown-ups sacrifice all integrity in the pursuit of money and fame? I don't know the answers but I'm prepared to try to understand underlying reasons if I can. That's why I'm asking questions. A head in the sand attitude helps no-one and only stores up trouble for the future. Head in the sand? I think you're the one with your head in the sand. Wake up and smell the coffee? People have had enough of your far fetched excuses. I have no doubt it can't be much fun growing up in some of the estates in our big cities. And yes, we've allowed a "culture" to promoted in our media that provides seriously dire role models to young people. But none of that takes away from the individual responsibility of those that CHOOSE to go out and rob, steal, bully from those around them. That's what they're doing. No, if's or buts. Like I say, your sort do such a massive disservice to all those decent people that grow up with very little money, material wealth, single parent families and cr@p role models and actually go out there and make an effort to better themselves. Plenty do it. The work is there. These people CHOOSE not to do that, they have chosen to behave like that and must except the consequences that I really hope are coming their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Since I never said that at all, you're just showing your own ignorance there. And you are showing your naivety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 And you are showing your naivety. Dead right - I forgot that some people attribute statements and attitudes to others that they haven't made. Silly me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Further to trousers' excusing police inaction, I'd rather you put something else in my mouth rather than words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Sky reporting outbreak of civil dissorder in Wolverhampton. And just watching pics of a large amount of police in canning Town.They look alot more in numbers than in the past couple of nights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffo Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Nothing's going to happen in Croydon tonight. The plod are out in force - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolution saint Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 I'm not aware of one single poster on here attempting to excuse what's happening. A few are simply trying to understand why its happening. Nought wrong with that. Yes, you're right. This is the thing that's most confusing - why? It seems apparently pointless and that's worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 snip. There's a lot to cover here, so let's try, shall we. First, I don't believe that everything on a council estate is nicked. I was specifically responding to people who claim that trainers and gadgets must automatically mean that the person wearing them has a lot of disposable income. It doesn't. I'm also not saying that everyone on the estate is out on the rob, but some people are, and everyone knows who they are. As for people not advertising stuff as stolen goods, that's irrelevant. First question that you'd ever ask on buying something from someone is "is it hot?". Affects both the purchasing decision and the price. Second, I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush. The entire point of my first couple of paragraphs was a direct response to your "I was from a council estate" and I did ok, specifically illustrating that there are gradations in the council estate experience and that not all are equal. Your assertion that "I got off a council estate so anyone can" kinda implies that all of those people have similar abilities. They don't. It's more accurate to say that "I got off a council estate so anyone of equal or better ability and support network should be able to do the same". Incidentally, I grew up on the Flowers Estate too. My mum still lives there now, and I'm there for a few days every few months. You must be referring to a different estate when you say "they built a police station next to it" because to this day, the closest nick is Portswood. This also can't be the estate where people "didn't go around stabbing each other", because anyone living there during the 1980s will remember the time that the Glen Eyre and Hampton Park girls slashed each other to ribbons on Burgess Road, bloodstains still on the pelican crossing two hours after it kicked off. Fair play, this sort of thing did not happen all the time, but it happened. And not everyone is involved in the black market, but it's there. The vast majority of the estate are decent people - even the villains wouldn't sh*t on their own. And yes, we have electricity, water, communications, sanitation and access to public amenities. I hope we are now clear. Now, it's actually your first paragraph that I take most issue with. You enumerate the wondrous gifts that council estates are given, such as water and electricity, citing that 'the main comforts are exactly the same as if you were rich'. Those aren't comforts, mate. They are basic necessities. And I can't really let you get away with passing wealth off as if its unimportant. Wealth is a massive factor. A headcase on a council estate is a f*cking nutter, a headcase with cash in the bank is an eccentric. A poor person nicking £10 out of a till is a thief. A rich banker trousering tax-payer's money gets a bonus. Perhaps more importantly, a poor kid is likely to have a worse support structure than his wealthier counterpart, with much less chance of rescue if she plunges into a downward spiral. So let's not treat access to funds as if its insignificant, because it's probably the biggest factor at play in all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Yes, you're right. This is the thing that's most confusing - why? It seems apparently pointless and that's worrying. a 19 year olds who was arrested this morning had his dad on talksport just now....he actually backed the police and hopes his son (who he is ashamed of) goes to jail...he had a good up bringing...not well off but not poor..always have nice clothes and this was a shock....after speaking to his son earlier...his son confessed to do it for the buzz and because he could.. I wonder if that is a similar trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 ^^^ Great post (by Pap, that is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 a 19 year olds who was arrested this morning had his dad on talksport just now....he actually backed the police and hopes his son (who he is ashamed of) goes to jail...he had a good up bringing...not well off but not poor..always have nice clothes and this was a shock....after speaking to his son earlier...his son confessed to do it for the buzz and because he could.. I wonder if that is a similar trend. That's ringing some bells, I think TDD. Herd following too, I bet. But why? Why did he need to do that to get 'the buzz'? That's what I've been trying to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 That's ringing some bells, I think TDD. Herd following too, I bet. But why? Why did he need to do that to get 'the buzz'? That's what I've been trying to understand. the worst part...his dad was saddened that his son said he did because he could..and no one would really stop him.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Just seen the video of the bleeding nipper having his backpack rifled through. What sort of animal does that and whilst I'm all for a good uprising these c**ts aren't the proles rising up against their oppressors, they are thick c**ts with an attitude problem who deserve a good kicking. Elsewhere, it's all peace and quiet in rural France. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 stuff. Pap there are a lot of things i could say to counter what you said but there is no point as we both see things in a different light. We can go around in circles all day. But i think one point needs to be made clear is that these kids are from every back ground. They are not just from you poor London estates. They come from all over. If you read a lot of the comments or the watch the news they make it clear these people are from the rich parts as'well as the poorer parts. If you are looking for reasons or excuses then should maybe at least start knowing that it isn't about an economic divide. This is not a case of the poor rising up against the rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 http://twitpic.com/63exoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 (edited) Dead right - I forgot that some people attribute statements and attitudes to others that they haven't made. Silly me! I know you pride yourself on your fair minded approach to everyone etc etc but you really do need to take your head out of the sand. I was cringing listening to radio 5 on the radio today, all these do-gooders coming out making excuses for them, that they cant afford nice trainers, got nothing to do, that the government doesn't care about them, they are poor etc etc. These people are just as bad, this softly, lets love them approach which has ruined this country. All badly behaved kids aren't little sods who need a clip round the ear anymore, oh no, they suffer from some sort of illness. Whereas in past we used to make our own entertainment, usually football or cricket on the car park at the back of our estate, now kids commit crimes because they haven't been given anything to do. Excuse after excuse after excuse. It's not their fault, it's society. it's the government. it's because they are poor. it's because they've got nothing to do. Too many people making too many excuses and not taking responsibility for thier own actions and therein lies the problem. If they are old enough to run around smashing things up and ruining peopes lives & livelihoods they are old enough to pay the consequences and have theirs ruined. Edited 9 August, 2011 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 a 19 year olds who was arrested this morning had his dad on talksport just now....he actually backed the police and hopes his son (who he is ashamed of) goes to jail...he had a good up bringing...not well off but not poor..always have nice clothes and this was a shock....after speaking to his son earlier...his son confessed to do it for the buzz and because he could.. I wonder if that is a similar trend. Kind of pi*ses on the argument that they are all poor and doing it because they cant afford nice trainers. Crime for the sake of crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 There's a lot to cover here, so let's try, shall we. First, I don't believe that everything on a council estate is nicked. I was specifically responding to people who claim that trainers and gadgets must automatically mean that the person wearing them has a lot of disposable income. It doesn't. I'm also not saying that everyone on the estate is out on the rob, but some people are, and everyone knows who they are. As for people not advertising stuff as stolen goods, that's irrelevant. First question that you'd ever ask on buying something from someone is "is it hot?". Affects both the purchasing decision and the price. Second, I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush. The entire point of my first couple of paragraphs was a direct response to your "I was from a council estate" and I did ok, specifically illustrating that there are gradations in the council estate experience and that not all are equal. Your assertion that "I got off a council estate so anyone can" kinda implies that all of those people have similar abilities. They don't. It's more accurate to say that "I got off a council estate so anyone of equal or better ability and support network should be able to do the same". Incidentally, I grew up on the Flowers Estate too. My mum still lives there now, and I'm there for a few days every few months. You must be referring to a different estate when you say "they built a police station next to it" because to this day, the closest nick is Portswood. This also can't be the estate where people "didn't go around stabbing each other", because anyone living there during the 1980s will remember the time that the Glen Eyre and Hampton Park girls slashed each other to ribbons on Burgess Road, bloodstains still on the pelican crossing two hours after it kicked off. Fair play, this sort of thing did not happen all the time, but it happened. And not everyone is involved in the black market, but it's there. The vast majority of the estate are decent people - even the villains wouldn't sh*t on their own. And yes, we have electricity, water, communications, sanitation and access to public amenities. I hope we are now clear. Now, it's actually your first paragraph that I take most issue with. You enumerate the wondrous gifts that council estates are given, such as water and electricity, citing that 'the main comforts are exactly the same as if you were rich'. Those aren't comforts, mate. They are basic necessities. And I can't really let you get away with passing wealth off as if its unimportant. Wealth is a massive factor. A headcase on a council estate is a f*cking nutter, a headcase with cash in the bank is an eccentric. A poor person nicking £10 out of a till is a thief. A rich banker trousering tax-payer's money gets a bonus. Perhaps more importantly, a poor kid is likely to have a worse support structure than his wealthier counterpart, with much less chance of rescue if she plunges into a downward spiral. So let's not treat access to funds as if its insignificant, because it's probably the biggest factor at play in all of this. well put post pap made me think about some of your points and i,m someone who also came from the flower estate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Why do you think they do it, Turkish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Why do you think they do it, Turkish? because they dont fear the police....who will stop them...may get 30 days inside...worth it for a £1000 telly right..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibble Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 It's not just the plasmas and trainers, they'll loot anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 i see the manchester chavs are at it now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffo Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Millwall and a few Charlton protecting Eltham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-scooby Posted 9 August, 2011 Author Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Greed is now playing the BIG part in these riots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Manchester and West Bromich and Wolverhampton are all being affected this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 I know you pride yourself on your fair minded approach to everyone etc etc but you really do need to take your head out of the sand. I was cringing listening to radio 5 on the radio today, all these do-gooders coming out making excuses for them, that they cant afford nice trainers, got nothing to do, that the government doesn't care about them, they are poor etc etc. These people are just as bad, this softly, lets love them approach which has ruined this country. All badly behaved kids aren't little sods who need a clip round the ear anymore, oh no, they suffer from some sort of illness. Whereas in past we used to make our own entertainment, usually football or cricket on the car park at the back of our estate, now kids commit crimes because they haven't been given anything to do. Excuse after excuse after excuse. It's not their fault, it's society. it's the government. it's because they are poor. it's because they've got nothing to do. Too many people making too many excuses and not taking responsibility for thier own actions and therein lies the problem. If they are old enough to run around smashing things up and ruining peopes lives & livelihoods they are old enough to pay the consequences and have theirs ruined. Agree 100%. I grew up in lordshill when it had a "reputation". My dad was unemployed for most of ny childhood, similar for many mates if they were lucky enough to have a dad at home. We were little ****s at times but never over stepped the line (well not too often, and not to any major extent). The difference then is that respect and decency was not an issue. Our parents and police were in charge and could act accordingly. That is no longer the case and kids have no clear boundaries. One other problem is that kids are overly aware of their rights, but have no awareness of their social and moral responsibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffo Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Millwall and a few Charlton protecting Eltham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Agree 100%. I grew up in lordshill when it had a "reputation". My dad was unemployed for most of ny childhood, similar for many mates if they were lucky enough to have a dad at home. We were little ****s at times but never over stepped the line (well not too often, and not to any major extent). The difference then is that respect and decency was not an issue. Our parents and police were in charge and could act accordingly. That is no longer the case and kids have no clear boundaries. One other problem is that kids are overly aware of their rights, but have no awareness of their social and moral responsibilities. agreed..born and bred in millbrook..and had less than nothing...certainly no smartphone or anything remotely expensive like these ****s have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 (edited) Why do you think they do it, Turkish? May reasons. Lack of discpline at home in school, lack of respect for authority, lack of fear and respect of the police, authority and of prisons. brought up to believe the world owes them a living, backed up by the do-gooders justifying it by saying they need to be given things to do, schemes and opportunities etc, ie everything handed to them on plate. The do gooders with their softly softly approach, the "gangsta" culture, some of them love the "bad man" image. And they know they can get away with it, a copper on radio 5 said today some of the people arrested have been nicked 13 or 14 times before for serious crimes but nothing happens to them in court and if the locals are too scared to speak to the police about crimes that dont get solved for fear of reprisals. Edited 9 August, 2011 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Well done for prefering to solve the problem pap. How are you doing that exactly? Since you asked mate, I think the biggest problem in this country is housing. It's too scarce and it is too expensive and for too many people, out of reach. Whatever the rioters' motivations, numerous commentators have observed that they lack a stake in society. Having roots gives you that stake. Too many people don't have a home, can never afford a home and can never lay down roots, stuck in an estate. I would suggest a massive construction program to build more houses, dovetailed with a plan to knock down some of the slums that people have to live in, modernising the country as appropriate. If we have to build on greenbelt land, so be it. Was going to happen at some point. May as well be now. In addition to giving people a chance to have a place of dignity in society, it'll create a huge number of jobs in construction, infrastructure, supply chain and maintenance. It should also help to normalise house prices so that more people can afford them and take their place in society. As well as affordable homes for sale, the programme would also entail a massive commitment to providing council houses or similar and the amenities to support new communities. I can't see how any of this would be a bad thing. So my solution? Build enough houses so a "stake in society" is achievable for all, and perhaps a lot of these people will start to believe in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 May reasons. Lack of discpline at home in school, lack of respect for authority, lack of fear and respect of the police, authority and of prisons. brought up to believe the world owes them a living, backed up by the do-gooders justifying it by saying they need to be given things to do, schemes and opportunities etc, ie everything handed to them on plate. The do gooders with their softly softly approach, the "gangsta" culture, some of them love the "bad man" image. And they know they can get away with it, a copper on radio 5 said today some of the people arrested have been nicked 13 or 14 times before for serious crimes but nothing happens to them in court and if the locals are too scared to speak to the police about crimes that dont happen for fear of reprisals. OK - that explains why they CAN do it. Why would they WANT to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 OK - that explains why they CAN do it. Why would they WANT to do it? As has been said above. Because they can and for the buzz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Anyone alarmed at Southampton riot rumours should follow #Hantspolice on twitter http://twitter.com/h antspolice As of a few minutes ago, they tweeted: "No reports of disorder anywhere in #Hants or #IOW at this time." "Please keep calm and check our feed for accurate info" They are doing a marvellous job of keeping people informed, stopping panic, and rumour, and tracking and referring for criminal investigation any fools who attempt to incite riots on social media eg:twitter users inciting riot have been sent messages similar to this "It is an offence to commit or encourage riot. Your msg has been referred for consideration for criminal investigation #police" Further recent tweets from Hantspolice: "CSupt Karen Manners is leading our response to events in #London and its impact on policing in #Hampshire and the #IsleofWight" "CSupt Manners “It’s understandable that having watched the national media, people may be concerned but our streets are safe" "I can assure you that we have NO reports of disorder in #Southampton at this time. We are fully prepared if that changes." "No reports of disorder whatsoever in #Southampton or in fact anywhere across the two counties at this time." Residents have been sending messages of support to Hants Police: "So proud to be from Southampton right now. @HantsPolice use of social networking last night to inform & calm communities was excellent!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Since you asked mate, I think the biggest problem in this country is housing. It's too scarce and it is too expensive and for too many people, out of reach. Whatever the rioters' motivations, numerous commentators have observed that they lack a stake in society. Having roots gives you that stake. Too many people don't have a home, can never afford a home and can never lay down roots, stuck in an estate. I would suggest a massive construction program to build more houses, dovetailed with a plan to knock down some of the slums that people have to live in, modernising the country as appropriate. If we have to build on greenbelt land, so be it. Was going to happen at some point. May as well be now. In addition to giving people a chance to have a place of dignity in society, it'll create a huge number of jobs in construction, infrastructure, supply chain and maintenance. It should also help to normalise house prices so that more people can afford them and take their place in society. As well as affordable homes for sale, the programme would also entail a massive commitment to providing council houses or similar and the amenities to support new communities. I can't see how any of this would be a bad thing. So my solution? Build enough houses so a "stake in society" is achievable for all, and perhaps a lot of these people will start to believe in it. By normalise, you mean reduce, thus thrusting millions of hard working home owners, into negative equity. You have some weird ideas mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 OK - that explains why they CAN do it. Why would they WANT to do it? Similar reasons, but mainly because they can in the knowledge of a lack of reprisal in the home, school or justice system. Could throw in stupidity, peer pressure, greed, and many reasons. I reckon many are not really doing this for any reason though, just going with the flow . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 As has been said above. Because they can and for the buzz. Also, because plain and simple, some people are just c***ts. No sense of responsibility, compassion and no real moral compass, irrespective of upbringing, education and opportunity. But some people cannot accept that there are some right nasty bastards out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolsaint29 Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 View in Portsmouth, was hoping it was Fratton Park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Since you asked mate, I think the biggest problem in this country is housing. It's too scarce and it is too expensive and for too many people, out of reach. Whatever the rioters' motivations, numerous commentators have observed that they lack a stake in society. Having roots gives you that stake. Too many people don't have a home, can never afford a home and can never lay down roots, stuck in an estate. So my solution? Build enough houses so a "stake in society" is achievable for all, and perhaps a lot of these people will start to believe in it. The link between this and feral youths is what exactly? You may just have a point if the parents were misbehaving, but it is the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperm_john Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 kicking off in manchester tonight, no reasoning behind it, just copy cat gangs of youths out for some loot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 By normalise, you mean reduce, thus thrusting millions of hard working home owners, into negative equity. You have some weird ideas mate. Yes, I do mean reduce. Let's be absolutely clear. On the subject of negative equity, I'm in two minds. One part of me thinks "f*ck 'em. If you were stupid enough to overfinance yourself and buy at the height of the market, that's your problem". It's not the only thing I'm thinking. Just throwing it out there. A more charitable side of me would consider the mess the banks got us in, and how they might repay that, particularly those that the taxpayer has a large stake in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 Why do you think they do it, Turkish? Agree 100%. I grew up in lordshill when it had a "reputation". My dad was unemployed for most of ny childhood, similar for many mates if they were lucky enough to have a dad at home. We were little ****s at times but never over stepped the line (well not too often, and not to any major extent). The difference then is that respect and decency was not an issue. Our parents and police were in charge and could act accordingly. That is no longer the case and kids have no clear boundaries. One other problem is that kids are overly aware of their rights, but have no awareness of their social and moral responsibilities. Here is your answer BTF. And yes, I do think it is as simple as that. Respect - we had it in the 70s and 80s, it is a very rare thing in teenagers nowadays. One of the main advantages of living in this part of the world is that children here are still taught respect, and family values, at a very early age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 For all the hand-wringing about causes and consequences, the looting is really only about one thing: desire. And it’s shaped by the pervasive influence of a black youth subculture, shared by young whites and blacks alike and imported largely from the US, which places high status on ‘labels’ – for clothes, electronics, you name it. The problem is that it’s hard enough if you’re on benefits or in school or in low-paid work to buy clothes or pay for your TV licence. But when you absolutely must have Gucci, Armani, Sony, Apple, Sky, Nike, etc., the gap between your desires and how to fulfill them becomes a yawning chasm. Unfortunately, the same subculture has violence and gangsterism written into its DNA – as well as a ‘this is mine if I want it’ mantra. It’s a fatal mixture. So when it became clear (very quickly) that the police were going to stand by as shops were emptied and torched, suddenly all those desires could be met in one orgiastic rush. (Hence the party atmosphere – the cheering and laughing – that many bystanders have observed). To hell with the idea that someone’s flat has just gone up in flames, or that a local business has been wiped out for good – the looter has a nice collection of labels to wear or stick on eBay, and a feeling that it is all gloriously justified because the loot has been ‘liberated’ from mainstream culture. Which all amounts to saying that this subculture is a pyramid of nothing much more than violent selfishness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 9 August, 2011 Share Posted 9 August, 2011 The link between this and feral youths is what exactly? You may just have a point if the parents were misbehaving, but it is the kids. I was just suggesting a potential solution to solve some of the issues that we're having, not describing how we came to get here in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now