Nexstar Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Better to have a thread of his own than bogged down talking about Jemal and Puncheon. solentsport BBC Radio Solent @solentsport understands #saintsfc have bid accepted by QPR for Kaspar Gorkss - source in London suggests - may still be issues to sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Interesting, would have thought it was our bid to accept...rather than us to approach them re: Gorkks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
influx Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Will he be motivated? I mean he worked his f*cking socks off last season to get them to the Prem yet it looks like he might not even get the chance to play in it. I find it a little strange! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Depends if it was more us offering QPR Puncheon for Gorkks, rather than them offering us Gorkks for Puncheon. Good deal all round if it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketphilly Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Surely he would get a pay rise. Would have thought it would be attractive if he was told he was not in QPR's plans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Plus QPR pretty much nailed on to be relegated this season, not much fun losing 85% of games and chasing shawdows in any division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Him and Fonte would make a great combination! As he has played in pre season he will be fit, shame it won't be done for Saturday (most likely). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Will he be motivated? I mean he worked his f*cking socks off last season to get them to the Prem yet it looks like he might not even get the chance to play in it. I find it a little strange! Nigel: "OK Kaspars, you did it last season with QPR and then Neil shunned you when they got there; but at Saints Im creating a team that can get us to the Prem and play there. I can see you fitting in to this team really well. It's a long term plan, so stay with it. With Saints, you will play games, you will win promotion and you will run out in the Premiership" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Bald_Si Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 The bid in itself suggests that we're not in for this Jemal chap, or that "deal" is a no-go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Maybe Puncheon doesn't want to go to QPR as part of a swap deal so we've had to buy Gorkss for a fee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 He wouldn't though. If promoted he'd likely be replaced again. It's a tough one, I can't see him being as motivated as last season. That is quite a presumption, based on very little,imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 (edited) Nigel: "at Saints Im creating a team that can get us to the Prem and play there" We all heard Adkins (and Cortese) say that a lot over the last couple of seasons (i.e. "we're in league one but buidling a team for the championship before we get there") but I've not heard him trot out the same mantra since getting promotion to the Championship. To me, the vibes I'm getting from the hierachy at SFC this year is that we're building a team that can hold it's own in the Championship, and fight for for promotion, but we don't appear to be looking further than promotion this time around. Just an observation like. Edited 4 August, 2011 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 We all heard Adkins say that a lot the last couple of seasons (i.e. "we're in league one but buidling a team for the championship before we get there") but I've not heard him trot out the same mantra since getting promotion to the Championship. To me, the vibes I'm getting from the hierachy at SFC this year is that we're building a team that can hold it's own in the Championship, and fight for for promotion, but we don't appear to be looking further than promotion this time around. Just an observation like. Cork, Schneiderlin, Lallana, Chamberlain and Fonte all have a good chance of playing in the Premier League in the future. That is five players to get started with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 For the sake of playing Devil's advocate, Hammond Seaborne and Martin aren't good enough to play in the Premier League, so by that yard stick they wont want to get promoted either. Infact one could argue that only 5-10 players in our squad are good enough and therefore most of the team don't want to get promoted. In reality, that's not the case. These are proffesionals and will not just sulk because they are unlikely to get a game in the Prem next year. If nothing else Gorkss will try harder because: a) He want to prove Adkins and the critics wrong and that HCDAJFU in the Prem. b) If he doesn't get a look in in the Prem, he will want to put himself in the window for the next NpC promotion hopefuls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 We all heard Adkins (and Cortese) say that a lot over the last couple of seasons (i.e. "we're in league one but buidling a team for the championship before we get there") but I've not heard him trot out the same mantra since getting promotion to the Championship. To me, the vibes I'm getting from the hierachy at SFC this year is that we're building a team that can hold it's own in the Championship, and fight for for promotion, but we don't appear to be looking further than promotion this time around. Just an observation like. From todays Echo,Adkins certainly intimating that he wants to be in the mix come January.....mind you he would hardly say otherwise. Plus good to see him state that team ethic alone will not be enough,you need ability also.Some appear to be relying on this to carry us through..... http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/9177466.Saints_good_enough_to_compete_says_Adkins/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Cork, Schneiderlin, Lallana, Chamberlain and Fonte all have a good chance of playing in the Premier League in the future. That is five players to get started with... Fair enough, but I'm not sure what that has to do with Trousers' post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint-crinny Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Dont see why he wouldnt be motivated? Decent club, good facilities, decent wage, point to prove after being binned off by QPR despite playing great last season. He's a footballer at the end of the day and will want to play for a team that's doing well, which will hopefully be us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Cork, Schneiderlin, Lallana, Chamberlain and Fonte all have a good chance of playing in the Premier League in the future. That is five players to get started with... Indeed. As you rightly highlight, at the moment we've got somewhere between 25% and 50% (absolute max) of a premier league squard, where as this time last year we had c.80% of a championship squad. That's the difference I'm highlighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Go to QPR player to see him being interviewed last week. Log in using your saintsplayer details. He dont look like hes desperate to leave but he seemed very cagey to me with some of his answers. Talked about his family and friends joshing him about playing in EPl...looks a tough nut fer sure. Very muscular strong bloke. Not the most articulate but his body language suggested to me he knows hes not fully in Warnocks plans. Watched his goal the other night- he attacked ball from the penalty spot towards the near post and slotted in a bit of a rebound quite promptly- it looked like whoever tried to defend against him kind of got shrugged off, or possibly was a bit scared of him. Hes definately a big unit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeShmoe Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Gorkks was fantastic for QPR last year, knows the league, big, tough uncomprimising CB. Just what we need. Hopefully this gets done ASAP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Fair enough, but I'm not sure what that has to do with Trousers' post. Because he said... "we don't appear to be looking further than promotion this time around" Keeping Chamberlain, Fonte and Schneiderlin at the club, signing Lallana on a new long term contract and signing Jack Cork, all indicate looking long term towards a possible Premier League future. Keeping your best players can be just as important as signing new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Personally I'd be disappointed with what's going on at QPR if I were a player there. A move away might not be a bad thing at all. Speaking as a Saints fan, I wouldn't mind signing him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 (edited) Because he said... "we don't appear to be looking further than promotion this time around" Keeping Chamberlain, Fonte and Schneiderlin at the club, signing Lallana on a new long term contract and signing Jack Cork, all indicate looking long term towards a possible Premier League future. Keeping your best players can be just as important as signing new ones. Ok. Slightly lazy wording on my part. What I'm trying to convey is that we're not getting as many "these are good enough for the league above" players in the squad in the championship as we did in league one. That is all. In fact, we're roughly 50% down on that target given a relative comparison of the squad a year ago to the squad today. Edited 4 August, 2011 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Because he said... "we don't appear to be looking further than promotion this time around" Keeping Chamberlain, Fonte and Schneiderlin at the club, signing Lallana on a new long term contract and signing Jack Cork, all indicate looking long term towards a possible Premier League future. Keeping your best players can be just as important as signing new ones. We're not looking any further than promotion this time around. Read that echo article above, it's Adkins' own words. As Trousers said, his only stated ambition is to be "in the race around Christmas time". He says nothing about a building a team that can compete in the Premier League, in fact he goes on to suggest how strong this division is and how we need (more) good players (in addition to the ones we already have) to complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windmill Arm 2 Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 He wouldn't though. If promoted he'd likely be replaced again. It's a tough one, I can't see him being as motivated as last season. Yeah, Gorrks OUT FFS, he's shyte, he's unmotivated, we want players to play for the shirt FFS.......................dear oh dear, its started already...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Because he said... "we don't appear to be looking further than promotion this time around" Keeping Chamberlain, Fonte and Schneiderlin at the club, signing Lallana on a new long term contract and signing Jack Cork, all indicate looking long term towards a possible Premier League future. Keeping your best players can be just as important as signing new ones. But are our best players good enough to step up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 But are our best players good enough to step up? If Puncheon can do reasonably well in the Premier League, do you not think Lallana and Chamberlain could? After all, they were the ones keeping Puncheon out of the Saints team. Cork has already shown he can do well in the Premier League in a brief time there. I think Schneiderlin and Fonte would also do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Will he be motivated? I mean he worked his f*cking socks off last season to get them to the Prem yet it looks like he might not even get the chance to play in it. I find it a little strange! and he was transferred to QPR from Blackpool the year before they went up too. Im not too disappointed about him leaving but my happiness will depend on the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 We all heard Adkins (and Cortese) say that a lot over the last couple of seasons (i.e. "we're in league one but buidling a team for the championship before we get there") but I've not heard him trot out the same mantra since getting promotion to the Championship. To me, the vibes I'm getting from the hierachy at SFC this year is that we're building a team that can hold it's own in the Championship, and fight for for promotion, but we don't appear to be looking further than promotion this time around. Just an observation like. So what? It doesnt have to be the truth, all it has to do is motivate the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 So what? It doesnt have to be the truth, all it has to do is motivate the player. Aye. Could be that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 If Puncheon can do reasonably well in the Premier League, do you not think Lallana and Chamberlain could? After all, they were the ones keeping Puncheon out of the Saints team. Cork has already shown he can do well in the Premier League in a brief time there. I think Schneiderlin and Fonte would also do well. I think Puncheon kept himself out of the Saints team by his own actions,not because he did not warrant a starting place due to his ability. Lallana quite possibly and Fonte perhaps.I will reserve judgment on Cork until i see him play oncemore.Morgan can be extremely sloppy at times,will be interesting to see if he can stem the loose passing which seems to let his overall ability down at times. It all depends also on your ambitions when reaching the prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 If Puncheon can do reasonably well in the Premier League, do you not think Lallana and Chamberlain could? After all, they were the ones keeping Puncheon out of the Saints team. Cork has already shown he can do well in the Premier League in a brief time there. I think Schneiderlin and Fonte would also do well. Yep, I think you're right....c.20% of our squad could probably hold their own in the Premier League. This agreeing malarkey will never catch on you know.... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 ... his only stated ambition is to be "in the race around Christmas time"... He said exactly the same last year. Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 (edited) I think Puncheon kept himself out of the Saints team by his own actions, not because he did not warrant a starting place due to his ability. So which of Chamberlain or Lallana would you have dropped to a League One substitute bench in order to accommodate Puncheon in the starting eleven? I'm not saying Puncheon is a bad player, he clearly isn't. But Chamberlain and Lallana are both better, I'm surprised you think otherwise. Edited 4 August, 2011 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Mockles Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Ok. Slightly lazy wording on my part. What I'm trying to convey is that we're not getting as many "these are good enough for the league above" players in the squad in the championship as we did in league one. That is all. In fact, we're roughly 50% down on that target given a relative comparison of the squad a year ago to the squad today. I'd agree with that. I'm over the moon with Cork and how we've conducted ourselves in the transfer market and bought in a small number of players but key players. However, despite Lallana and Lambert being 2 of our better players who I am hopeful with do well this season, whether they're PL calibre is yet to be seen. Certainly Lambert has a decent header on him, deft touch and great passing ability (not to mention shooting and penalty taking prowess) but he is unproven even at Championship level. He may well step up to the mark if we were lucky enough to do a Norwich. Who can tell? Lallana is one of our better players (and it is noticable in our performances when he is absent) but I personally rate him as a good Championship player. I'm not so sure PL standard. Certainly his lack of pace on the flanks would be a hindrance at PL standard whereas Lambert being a forward would be a slightly different prospect. That's the gulf in quality we are talking about between leagues. The PL is so competitive now and such a high standard. Our time away from the top flight may have made us all lose touch. Just a theory, I'm not implying we have all lost touch but I pay attention to our league much more than the persistent press focus on the PL and the big 5.....ZZZZZZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 (edited) Lallana is one of our better players (and it is noticable in our performances when he is absent) but I personally rate him as a good Championship player. I'm not so sure PL standard. Certainly his lack of pace on the flanks would be a hindrance at PL standard whereas Lambert being a forward would be a slightly different prospect. If Puncheon can make a mark in the Premier League, do you not think Lallana could? Lallana is clearly the better player of the two. The quality of Chamberlain and Lallana was the main reason Puncheon was loaned out. His alleged unprofessionalism is likely to have been a result of having to play second fiddle to a talented 17 year old and not able to start games in the third tier. Edited 4 August, 2011 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 So which of Chamberlain or Lallana would you have dropped to a League One substitute bench in order to accommodate Puncheon in the starting eleven? I'm not saying Puncheon is a bad player, he clearly isn't. But Chamberlain and Lallana are both better, I'm surprised you think otherwise. You stated that both Lallana and Oxo kept Puncheon out of the squad....imo,Puncheon kept himself out of the squad. Puncheon on what i have seen of him in a saints shirt is not better then either,however he was not given the opportunity to prove me otherwise because he was acting like a plum. If he was putting in displays like he did at Milwall or Blackpool,he would have been nearer the squad.I don't think Oxo would have been used so frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 (edited) You stated that both Lallana and Oxo kept Puncheon out of the squad....imo,Puncheon kept himself out of the squad. Puncheon on what i have seen of him in a saints shirt is not better then either,however he was not given the opportunity to prove me otherwise because he was acting like a plum. If he was putting in displays like he did at Milwall or Blackpool,he would have been nearer the squad.I don't think Oxo would have been used so frequently. So you would drop one of the highest rated English prospects from third tier matches, in order to play Puncheon? As I said earlier, I think Puncheon is a good player, I just think Lallana and Chamberlain are much better. If it were Chamberlain or Lallana on loan at Millwall and Blackpool last season, I think you would have seen even more impressive performances from them at that the respective levels compared Puncheon. Edited 4 August, 2011 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 For the sake of playing Devil's advocate, Hammond Seaborne and Martin aren't good enough to play in the Premier League, so by that yard stick they wont want to get promoted either. Infact one could argue that only 5-10 players in our squad are good enough and therefore most of the team don't want to get promoted. In reality, that's not the case. These are proffesionals and will not just sulk because they are unlikely to get a game in the Prem next year. If nothing else Gorkss will try harder because: a) He want to prove Adkins and the critics wrong and that HCDAJFU in the Prem. b) If he doesn't get a look in in the Prem, he will want to put himself in the window for the next NpC promotion hopefuls. ...and for the sake of argument I think Martin and possibly Seaborne will develop into good premiership players with the right coaching. they are both quite young for centre backs. as for Hammond, I agree but with the right people around him he could lift his game and survive at Premiership level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 So you would drop one of the highest rated English prospects from third tier matches, in order to play Puncheon? As I said earlier, I think Puncheon is a good player, I just think Lallana and Chamberlain are much better. If it were Chamberlain or Lallana on loan at Millwall and Blackpool last season, I think you would have seen even more impressive performances from them at that the respective levels compared Puncheon. Surely the mistake is actually comparing Puncheon with Lallana and Chamberlain. They are quite different players with different skill sets. The question is not whether Puncheon is good enough but whether he wants to play the style of football NA asks of him. He does not. That's why they fell out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Surely the mistake is actually comparing Puncheon with Lallana and Chamberlain. They are quite different players with different skill sets. The question is not whether Puncheon is good enough but whether he wants to play the style of football NA asks of him. He does not. That's why they fell out. All three were competing for the same positions. The wide midfielder roles in a 442. Puncheon lost out because Lallana and Chamberlain are better in the role, a role which is Puncheon's natural position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Well MLG, I hope you have made Chamberlain and Lallana superior to Puncheon on FM 12 !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 All three were competing for the same positions. The wide midfielder roles in a 442. Puncheon lost out because Lallana and Chamberlain are better in the role, a role which is Puncheon's natural position. really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 really? What would you say it is then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 MLG - can you start a thread about the comparative merits of the 3? This thread is about Kaspars Gorkss is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 MLG - can you start a thread about the comparative merits of the 3? This thread is about Kaspars Gorkss is it not? MLG hijacking a thread with his ever-tedious pedantry? Never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 MLG hijacking a thread with his ever-tedious pedantry? Never. Look back at every post I have made in this thread (including the first), and you will see they are all on topic with the posts they follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Look back at every post I have made in this thread (including the first), and you will see they are all on topic with the posts they follow. Look at where we are and tell me if we're on topic. So, back to Gorkss....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Look at where we are and tell me if we're on topic. So, back to Gorkss....... Puncheon has been heavily linked to the Gorkss deal in the past. I would say discussing his merits is relevant to this thread as there is still a possibility his Saints future may be linked directly or indirectly to any deal for Gorkss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 August, 2011 Share Posted 4 August, 2011 Puncheon has been heavily linked to the Gorkss deal in the past. I would say discussing his merits is relevant to this thread as there is still a possibility his Saints future may be linked directly or indirectly to any deal for Gorkss. Ah yes, I can see now that's exactly what you were alluding to with your previous, clearly entirely relevant comparisons. My apologies, you carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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