The US Debt Ceiling

[pap]

In the next few hours, US politicians have an important decision to make. Congress needs to approve the raising of the debt ceiling. This is the amount of money that the USA can borrow. The United States already has a debt ceiling of around 15 Trillion Dollars. They are looking to increase it so that they can continue living as they do, with some commentators saying that failure to get the required borrowing would be catastrophic.

 

Surely this is a Band-Aid on a Band-Aid? Shouldn't the fact that the US needs this increase to survive be raising alarm bells? Shouldn't they be re-evaluating where the money is going? Shouldn't they have a plan to get out of this crisis? Isn't there an inherent conflict of interests when the "leader of the free world" owes a ton of money to a country which is essentially a dictatorship?

 

Personally, I think the US needs to take a real look at WHY it needs this money. On a similar note, so do we.

[revolution saint]

In the next few hours, US politicians have an important decision to make. Congress needs to approve the raising of the debt ceiling. This is the amount of money that the USA can borrow. The United States already has a debt ceiling of around 15 Trillion Dollars. They are looking to increase it so that they can continue living as they do, with some commentators saying that failure to get the required borrowing would be catastrophic.

 

Surely this is a Band-Aid on a Band-Aid? Shouldn't the fact that the US needs this increase to survive be raising alarm bells? Shouldn't they be re-evaluating where the money is going? Shouldn't they have a plan to get out of this crisis? Isn't there an inherent conflict of interests when the "leader of the free world" owes a ton of money to a country which is essentially a dictatorship?

 

Personally, I think the US needs to take a real look at WHY it needs this money. On a similar note, so do we.

 

The majority of the money the US owes is to US based companies so defaulting on payments only harms themselves. I agree though - sooner or later they'll have to pay.

[aintforever]

There is no way they can pay all that back, it's just a question of when not if they default IMO.

 

Question is, what happens when they decide to write the debt off?

[pap]

I've been over a few times. The space they have over there is unbelievable. There's one place I've been to a couple of times where literally everyone lives in the suburbs, and the downtown area looks like something from a zombie film.

 

They are so dependent on fuel it's unreal.

[dune]

It's all brinkmanship with the Republicans holding a weak president to randsom. A deal with be struck because there is no alternative. It'd cause meltdown if there was no deal. The Markets have reacted, but nothing lke how they'd react if they expected a deal not to be reached.

[Turkish]

It's all brinkmanship with the Republicans holding a weak president to randsom. A deal with be struck because there is no alternative. It'd cause meltdown if there was no deal. The Markets have reacted, but nothing lke how they'd react if they expected a deal not to be reached.

 

exactly this. They aren't not going to do a deal because it would be economic suicide if they didn't.

[Saintandy666]

They'd instantly have to cut spending by 44% if they don't agree a deal. That's the difference between income and expenditure, madness... absolute madness.

[pedg]

It's all brinkmanship with the Republicans holding a weak president to randsom. A deal with be struck because there is no alternative. It'd cause meltdown if there was no deal. The Markets have reacted, but nothing lke how they'd react if they expected a deal not to be reached.

 

That assumes enough of their politicians act logically and given the influence on all this by the tea party that's not necessarily the case.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/31/us-debt-congress-tea-party

[dune]

That assumes enough of their politicians act logically and given the influence on all this by the tea party that's not necessarily the case.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/31/us-debt-congress-tea-party

 

The crux of the argument is ideology - leftwing poverty v rightwing wealth. Ideologically i'm with the TEA Party, however at this precise moment the US and the global economy is so sickly that it won't be able to take a shock to the system. The damage was done years ago by the left wing and their liberal ideologies. Great Empires and wealthy states are not built on wealth distribution and debt, they are built on greed and surplus. As Cecil Rhodes once said:

 

“We must find new lands from which we can easily obtain raw materials and at the same time exploit the cheap slave labor that is available from the natives of the colonies. The colonies would also provide a dumping ground for the surplus goods produced in our factories.”

 

China may still parade under the Marxist banner, but essentially they have taken the tried and tested model used by Empires throughout history and they are now reaping the rewards.

[Seaford Saint]

The crux of the argument is ideology - leftwing poverty v rightwing wealth. Ideologically i'm with the TEA Party, however at this precise moment the US and the global economy is so sickly that it won't be able to take a shock to the system. The damage was done years ago by the left wing and their liberal ideologies. Great Empires and wealthy states are not built on wealth distribution and debt, they are built on greed and surplus. As Cecil Rhodes once said:

 

“We must find new lands from which we can easily obtain raw materials and at the same time exploit the cheap slave labor that is available from the natives of the colonies. The colonies would also provide a dumping ground for the surplus goods produced in our factories.”

 

China may still parade under the Marxist banner, but essentially they have taken the tried and tested model used by Empires throughout history and they are now reaping the rewards.

 

China has an empire?

[badgerx16]

Great Empires and wealthy states are not built on wealth distribution and debt, they are built on greed and surplus. As Cecil Rhodes once said:

 

“We must find new lands from which we can easily obtain raw materials and at the same time exploit the cheap slave labor that is available from the natives of the colonies. The colonies would also provide a dumping ground for the surplus goods produced in our factories.”

 

Yep, just about sums you up.

 

There was an interview on the radio this morning where what was implied is that Obama is being held to ransom by the Republicans on account of the economic failures of Dubyah, their own mouthpiece - including getting them into 2 wars, one of which is palpably unwinnable.

[dune]

China has an empire?

 

Of course it does. Myriad nations are indebted to China and most of Africa is exploited by China. They have an Empire in all but name.

[Seaford Saint]

Of course it does. Myriad nations are indebted to China and most of Africa is exploited by China. They have an Empire in all but name.

 

For a second, I thought you meant that China conquered other nations to create a market for their goods, giving back nothing in return. Oh that's what we did in Africa and elsewhere.

 

China makes goods that other countries want and willingly get involved in purchasing. China buys the raw materials it needs from other countries using CASH. There might be a clue there, Dune.

 

I am interested in the US navy's 4th 5th and 6th fleets. Who is paying for these? Is it the US?

[solentstars]

The crux of the argument is ideology - leftwing poverty v rightwing wealth. Ideologically i'm with the TEA Party, however at this precise moment the US and the global economy is so sickly that it won't be able to take a shock to the system. The damage was done years ago by the left wing and their liberal ideologies. Great Empires and wealthy states are not built on wealth distribution and debt, they are built on greed and surplus. As Cecil Rhodes once said:

 

“We must find new lands from which we can easily obtain raw materials and at the same time exploit the cheap slave labor that is available from the natives of the colonies. The colonies would also provide a dumping ground for the surplus goods produced in our factories.”

 

China may still parade under the Marxist banner, but essentially they have taken the tried and tested model used by Empires throughout history and they are now reaping the rewards.

i bow to your great superior intellect and grasp of economics and your great economic discussions with the great and good of the members of the bnp-nf-edl who worship your great mind and i expect they are putting you forward for the nobel prize.

[Jonnyboy]

The tea party are just being kn*bs who basically hate Obama.

 

Apparently during Reagans tenure the debt ceiling was raised as a matter of routine on 18 separate occasions.

[solentstars]

The tea party are just being kn*bs who basically hate Obama.

 

Apparently during Reagans tenure the debt ceiling was raised as a matter of routine on 18 separate occasions.

 

reagan left a massive deficit and talked rubbish about trickle down economics with his poodle thatcher that you made the rich richer and that came down the chain to the poor and bush junior spent 2 trillion dollars on 2 useless wars and cut taxs for the super wealthy aong with the greed of wall street caused a world wide recession and mega deficit in the states--funny thing they were conservatives .

[Ohio Saint]

If I didn't live here, it would be hilarious. As I do, It's frooking tragic. The whole thing is just pure farce.

[Hamilton Saint]

The crux of the argument is ideology - leftwing poverty v rightwing wealth. Ideologically i'm with the TEA Party, however at this precise moment the US and the global economy is so sickly that it won't be able to take a shock to the system. The damage was done years ago by the left wing and their liberal ideologies. Great Empires and wealthy states are not built on wealth distribution and debt, they are built on greed and surplus. As Cecil Rhodes once said:

 

“We must find new lands from which we can easily obtain raw materials and at the same time exploit the cheap slave labor that is available from the natives of the colonies. The colonies would also provide a dumping ground for the surplus goods produced in our factories.”

 

China may still parade under the Marxist banner, but essentially they have taken the tried and tested model used by Empires throughout history and they are now reaping the rewards.

 

If you actually look at the history of the U.S. debt and deficits, the worst presidential offenders of the modern era were Ronald Reagan, George Bush (Sr.) and George W. Bush (all Republicans who believed that cutting taxes would fix everything). The best presidents, as far as the debt and deficits go, were Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton (both Democrats). Clinton did an excellent job turning around the mess he inherited from Reagan.

 

Here are some data for your consideration:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

[pap]

So, an update on this.

 

Obama strikes deal to end US debt crisis

 

The US will not default on its loans this time, but it will be borrowing another $2trillion.

 

I'm still flabbergasted that they even need to do this, as the US really has everything it needs to live within its means.

[thefunkygibbons]

Hopefully they have sorted it out

 

American polictics are beyond understanding, but it is no fun when it also ends up affecting us