Robsk II Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 I know there are hundreds of brutal crimes all the time, and we'd have little else posted if we always linked to them. But there are some that you just think "wtf?", because they're so chillingly weird, or horrific, or, beyond all else, incomprehensible. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/7688929.stm How could anyone, ever, do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 One word: Evil No other words necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Makes me feel ill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 At least he should get regularly battered in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Evil c*nt. His a$$ will be must sort after in prison. I hope the bigger boys make him bleed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Poor little child. I daren't think about it for too long, it's so very sad. IMO, he won't survive in prison. One day someone will get to him. And I suspect the prison officers might look the other way too. Even hardened criminals have a line that they don't cross, and this person has crossed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 And I suspect the prison officers might look the other way too. I certainly would. I would have a convenient 'poo break' in the toilet at that time. I wonder what went through the sick f*ck's mind to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robsk II Posted 24 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Thing is, I generally don't believe in catch-all conceptual terms like 'evil'. I generally believe that psychology is behind most things. Yet of course, there are times when it goes so far beyond rationality and reason that you wonder. How can anyone's morals and behaviours be so very, very far removed from your own? Is this really just an extreme on the spectrum of human conditions, mental health issues, developmental **** ups etc? I know many would say no, or it doesn't matter - and clearly, some people seem to be well beyond any kind of rehabilitation. Some learning you do cannot be undone in adulthood, I think. As St L said, it's just to sad and tragic to think about. It's terrifying how many people have done thngs like this or comparably psychotic - because I would guess it's easily in the hundreds of the thousands out of those who are alive today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jillyanne Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Words fail me, surely the death penalty should be employed in this case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Thing is, I generally don't believe in catch-all conceptual terms like 'evil'. I generally believe that psychology is behind most things. Yet of course, there are times when it goes so far beyond rationality and reason that you wonder. How can anyone's morals and behaviours be so very, very far removed from your own? Is this really just an extreme on the spectrum of human conditions, mental health issues, developmental **** ups etc? I know many would say no, or it doesn't matter - and clearly, some people seem to be well beyond any kind of rehabilitation. Some learning you do cannot be undone in adulthood, I think. It is a fair point. You have to wonder how badly someone has been conditioned in the first place to cause a baby, a helpless child, their OWN helpless child to that kind of sustained abuse. To do this, regardless of prior experience, mental state or any other external or internal factor, is an act of complete and utter evil. And for him to show no indication of remorse reinforces for me that he is an evil human being. It is one of the worst crimes I have ever heard of, it is beyond comprehension. He is surely beyond redemption. I am agnostic, but dearly hope hell exists so that he can go there and truly suffer for what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robsk II Posted 24 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Well yes, it is 'evil' as I use the word. I would use it to express the absoulte extremes of negative behaviours and attitudes. Jill - I can understand an emotion-led response to this, and you'd have to have a heart of stone not to - but can you honestly tell me, regarding this death sentence idea - even for one such as this guy - why? Does murder need to beget murder? Should we not seek to do exactly the opposite of what this monstrous chap has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 It is a fair point. You have to wonder how badly someone has been conditioned in the first place to cause a baby, a helpless child, their OWN helpless child to that kind of sustained abuse. To do this, regardless of prior experience, mental state or any other external or internal factor, is an act of complete and utter evil. And for him to show no indication of remorse reinforces for me that he is an evil human being. It is one of the worst crimes I have ever heard of, it is beyond comprehension. He is surely beyond redemption. I am agnostic, but dearly hope hell exists so that he can go there and truly suffer for what he did. This has absolutely horrified me. According to the judge, the mother was in the lowest 1% of intelligence. Apparently she was scared of him because he was so violent, but surely she should have found a way to find help beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 This has absolutely horrified me. According to the judge, the mother was in the lowest 1% of intelligence. Apparently she was scared of him because he was so violent, but surely she should have found a way to find help beforehand. Fear is a horrific emotion, especially if you do not have the intelligence to cope with it or understand it. Many people have been warped by fear of what may happen if they react against those who cause it. If she was in the lowest 1% then I would believe she may have been a very easy target for someone predetory. Who is not to say he abused her? And kept quiet for fear of being the victim herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Fear is a horrific emotion, especially if you do not have the intelligence to cope with it or understand it. Many people have been warped by fear of what may happen if they react against those who cause it. If she was in the lowest 1% then I would believe she may have been a very easy target for someone predetory. Who is not to say he abused her? And kept quiet for fear of being the victim herself. Fair point. I can't imagine protecting myself at the expense of my child but then I've never been in her shoes so it's not possible for me to understand and not right to judge. Apparently he had been violent to women before although he had no convictions for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Bob Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Having a 2 year old daughter who means the world to me this leaves me chilled to the bone. How you could ever do that to your own defenceless young child is beyond comprehension. I would have no problems flicking the switch on this mans electric chair, though that would unfortunately be mercifully painless. And yes Rob, I'd have to say that is 'emotion led' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Well yes, it is 'evil' as I use the word. I would use it to express the absoulte extremes of negative behaviours and attitudes. Jill - I can understand an emotion-led response to this, and you'd have to have a heart of stone not to - but can you honestly tell me, regarding this death sentence idea - even for one such as this guy - why? Does murder need to beget murder? Should we not seek to do exactly the opposite of what this monstrous chap has? Robsk, it's entirely obvious that you're a very fair minded bloke, and in the field you work in, you have to be. I am of a similar mind as you, and not subject to irrational statements, even provoked by the worst circumstances. But this gets very near to what is manageable for a person to bear. Of course, it is not about what we want to do to this individual, but what is right and just. But it is very hard. If we were all bad people it wouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dark Sotonic Mills Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Even I am having some difficulty reconciling my mind on this one. As a father of four children and a new grandparent it is very difficult to put aside knee-jerk emotions and look at things dispassionately. Like Rob, this man fits my definition of evil and, although I have not read the trial transcript, it appears that this person was not mentally ill in the accepted sense of the word (although how a sane person could do something like this is a question for someone far more experienced than me to comment on), and is just truly bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poshie72 Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Tbh my thoughts on this are emotionally charged as well. Reading the report, as DSM said, it does not appear that he is menatlly ill, there is no mention of being sent for psychiatric assesment. I just cant comprehend how he could do such a horrific thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jillyanne Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 (edited) Even I am having some difficulty reconciling my mind on this one. As a father of four children and a new grandparent it is very difficult to put aside knee-jerk emotions and look at things dispassionately. Like Rob, this man fits my definition of evil and, although I have not read the trial transcript, it appears that this person was not mentally ill in the accepted sense of the word (although how a sane person could do something like this is a question for someone far more experienced than me to comment on), and is just truly bad. deleted before I get infracted. x Edited 24 October, 2008 by Jillyanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Jill you are shocking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jillyanne Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Jill you are shocking! I was being bloody serious (for a change). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hacienda Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Having a 2 year old daughter who means the world to me this leaves me chilled to the bone. How you could ever do that to your own defenceless young child is beyond comprehension. I would have no problems flicking the switch on this mans electric chair, though that would unfortunately be mercifully painless. And yes Rob, I'd have to say that is 'emotion led' I agree 10000000000% I've a 6yo lad, and daughters aged 3 and 1 and I can't even read the article without getting tearful and I'm quite sure I'm not the only parent that it'll happen to today. I would willingly pull the lever and take great solace in the fact he died in fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 I agree 10000000000% I've a 6yo lad, and daughters aged 3 and 1 and I can't even read the article without getting tearful and I'm quite sure I'm not the only parent that it'll happen to today. I would willingly pull the lever and take great solace in the fact he died in fear. I think he'll experience far more fear in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aids victim Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 I thought this thread was going to be about Bridge too Far, but then I realised it's about someone almost as bad as her. Love Aids xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CabbageFace Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Bet he is a nice enough chap. Eye for an eye imho, snap his spine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 I think he'll experience far more fear in prison. I tend to think so too, maybe one of those 'deliverers of vengeance' might snap his spine. . . . . . 'nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robsk II Posted 24 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 24 October, 2008 I would add to my 'rational' view that, were I put in a situation where anything happened to a child of mine, etc etc, or I had any emotional investment etc - then of course, I would be sorely tested to stay true to my convictions. I'm realistic enough to fully accept - and perhaps this is why I can turn it off - that there is a part of me that would love to torture the **** out of some people. It's a small, primal part. But take away emotion and consequence, and a lot of 'evil' acts would be techincally fun or amusing. I would never say don't use emotion. I would actually say DO use it, it's what makes us human and it can be one of the greatest tools in our armoury. My only point is that it should not wholly govern us. We should make decisions based on our own morals and rationality as well as our emotions. Head as well as heart, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 Words fail me, surely the death penalty should be employed in this case? Agree. That evil bastard will serve no purpose during the rest of his life.Although some form of more appropriate 'punishment' might come his way in prison,I object to the cost of keeping him breathing,and 'protected' for 'his own good' whilst in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 I would add to my 'rational' view that, were I put in a situation where anything happened to a child of mine, etc etc, or I had any emotional investment etc - then of course, I would be sorely tested to stay true to my convictions. I'm realistic enough to fully accept - and perhaps this is why I can turn it off - that there is a part of me that would love to torture the **** out of some people. It's a small, primal part. But take away emotion and consequence, and a lot of 'evil' acts would be techincally fun or amusing. I would never say don't use emotion. I would actually say DO use it, it's what makes us human and it can be one of the greatest tools in our armoury. My only point is that it should not wholly govern us. We should make decisions based on our own morals and rationality as well as our emotions. Head as well as heart, I guess. Robsk 11 I wouldnt normally post on this type of thread,but i was impressed with your reply and your views on this horriffic crime. My first thoughts would be to kill this horrible excuse for a human very slowly. But i think the thing that sets us apart from animals,is the fact that we can take a step back and judge people fairly and without emotion. Saying that though,he should never ever be released from prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint boggy Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 i'm sorry, all you people on here trying to be all PC about a 'man' repeatedly abusing his helpless,innocent child to the point where she had untreated fractures and broken bones,then snapping her spine in two, frankly make me sick!! he deserves to die a VERY slow and painful death!!! i couldn't give a rats a$$ if he is thick or has emotional issues stemming from childhood!!!.......so f*king what??? that individual (i won't call him human) has no right to take up room on this planet, and it sickens me to the pit of my stomach that he breaths the very same air as me!!! there, is that a strong enough emotion-led response for you????........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robsk II Posted 24 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 24 October, 2008 (edited) I'm not "trying to be PC". I'm just trying to be better than him. And thanks, R&Rman#2. I would wholeheartedly agree that he should never be released from prison. I actually believe people should always be freed if they have served the 'punishmment' sentence and can then prove they have genuinely changed entirely. Before I get vilified, I'd point out that the impetus would be on the person to prove this, which would be very hard and, in fairness, unlikely to be the case. Most people would never be able to do that. Yet even with high risk offenders, I still think a post-sentence softening of the sanction would be better (obviously many of the worst criminals would perhaps never reach this stage, or only in older age) - for example a still-secure supported accomodation kind of situation, where they were still kept away from the public, but were given less life restrictions in exchange for genuine work - whatever thay may be. So they can earn priviledges past their actual sentence even if still kept locked away by taking the load off the taxpayer. Edited 24 October, 2008 by Robsk II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 an important part of the article- was in the lowest 1% band of intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 24 October, 2008 Share Posted 24 October, 2008 an important part of the article- was in the lowest 1% band of intelligence. Supports Pompey then ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hacienda Posted 25 October, 2008 Share Posted 25 October, 2008 an important part of the article- was in the lowest 1% band of intelligence. The most important part of the article - A child was murdered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robsk II Posted 11 November, 2008 Author Share Posted 11 November, 2008 Another lovely one. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7706598.stm I really struggle with this sort of thing - in fact any case where someone is clearly abusing another, child or otherwise. I cannot begin to understand how anyone can do things like this. Even from a cold position of logic and rationality - what can begin to explain the psychological make up of these people? No idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franny's Tash Posted 12 November, 2008 Share Posted 12 November, 2008 I agree 10000000000% I've a 6yo lad, and daughters aged 3 and 1 and I can't even read the article without getting tearful and I'm quite sure I'm not the only parent that it'll happen to today. I would willingly pull the lever and take great solace in the fact he died in fear.Likewise...I'm not an overly emotional person and I'm not sure what my feelings would have been 6 months ago, but as the father of a 5 month old son I wept when I read the story. Those photos of the blood-stained baby clothes are just heart-braking. Now I just don't want to see or read any more about it and will flip the channel / turn the page when it next comes up again. And I can honestly say that it makes me feel better that this person probably will suffer some of the same fear, pain and misery when they get to prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 12 November, 2008 Share Posted 12 November, 2008 What a bastard, I hope he has a ****e time in prison, locked away in some ****ty small dirty cell... although it's hardly like that these days. However, from what I have heard, most people in prison and I'm talking about the inmates here, generally give child murderers lots of **** so I hope that happens so he can truly see what he has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 12 November, 2008 Share Posted 12 November, 2008 What a bastard, I hope he has a ****e time in prison, locked away in some ****ty small dirty cell... although it's hardly like that these days. However, from what I have heard, most people in prison and I'm talking about the inmates here, generally give child murderers lots of **** so I hope that happens so he can truly see what he has done. The trouble is that section 47 (I think that's the one) means that the nonces are kept out of harm's way. The inmates do sometimes get to them, witness Niellson and Sutcliffe. There is honour among thieves. I'm still undecided as to how to deal with these beings, half of me wants to exact such a horrific and terrible revenge on them for what they do to defenceless women and children. The other half of me, maybe call it my less emotional half, questions why we should sink to their level. Of one thing, though, I am sure. Once these beings step over that line and get caught, brought to trial and found guilty they should never, ever taste freedom again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mao Cap Posted 12 November, 2008 Share Posted 12 November, 2008 Forcing him to exist in a constant state of terror for the rest of his days is a much better punishment than giving him the easy escape route of death, surely? It always baffles me when people complain about "paying their taxes to keep these scum alive", etc. etc. You pay your taxes so that people like this c*nt, Huntley and suchlike have to endure years of torment in their own little hell, getting the sh*t kicked out of them by wardens or whatever inmates manage to get to them. Which is fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junction 9 Posted 12 November, 2008 Share Posted 12 November, 2008 People often talk of those who get convicted for this type of offence "getting what's due" in prision. Do you think this is actually the case or do they get the protection the prison rules would allow? Is it the case that wardens turn a blind eye to certain inmates if they know what they are in for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorytheking Posted 14 November, 2008 Share Posted 14 November, 2008 People often talk of those who get convicted for this type of offence "getting what's due" in prision. Do you think this is actually the case or do they get the protection the prison rules would allow? Is it the case that wardens turn a blind eye to certain inmates if they know what they are in for? I hope the guy gets absolutely destroyed inside. Preferably, not getting the chance to actually finish his sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint George Posted 14 November, 2008 Share Posted 14 November, 2008 The most important part of the article - A child was murdered. Yup ...But you can be sure the most important thing from here on in, will be 'his' "human rights" and personal protection, while he serves the next 15 years in "rehabilitation"....Make no mistake the bleeding heart librals will make sure of that. Shame he can't be sent over here....he'd be facing a nice hefty dose of leathal injection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hacienda Posted 14 November, 2008 Share Posted 14 November, 2008 Yup ...But you can be sure the most important thing from here on in, will be 'his' "human rights" and personal protection, while he serves the next 15 years in "rehabilitation"....Make no mistake the bleeding heart librals will make sure of that. The reality you inhabit is so removed from the real world that you make John Nada look normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint George Posted 15 November, 2008 Share Posted 15 November, 2008 The reality you inhabit is so removed from the real world that you make John Nada look normal. No point taking your anger and bitterness out on me....You know i'm right http://www.justice.gov.uk/docs/murder-manslaughter-infanticide-impact-assessment.pdf Fact is, he'll be out in 15 years. Having spent his time in complete safety. in a seperate wing with like minded nonce's and having been afforderd more comforts and oportunities than he probably had at home. Thats just how things work in a Nanny State Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 18 November, 2008 Share Posted 18 November, 2008 He needs beheading, slowly with a fairly blunt knife, frequent stops and eyes held open so he can watch it in a mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 18 November, 2008 Share Posted 18 November, 2008 There was an interview from a lady who knew Baby P's stepdad for 14 years on Radio 1 yesterday. Said that he had a sick fascination with hurting animals and once in her presence, knocked a frog out with smelling salts, broke its legs then let it come too. She said he was laughing so much about it. Whether it is true or not I do not know, but that is one sick thing to do. I ask the question about the 'friend' who didnt sound too intelligent either, and think why did you not stop him? They say being able to be cruel to animals is one step away from being able to do it to humans, and the fact he took a sick pleasure in doing this makes me wonder, if she was that concerned, why she didnt report this to the police. If she was that close a friend, she would have easily been able to put two and two together when baby P was suffering injuries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 18 November, 2008 Share Posted 18 November, 2008 He will die in prison, regardless of the length of sentence he receives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dark Sotonic Mills Posted 18 November, 2008 Share Posted 18 November, 2008 ... Said that he had a sick fascination with hurting animals and once in her presence, knocked a frog out with smelling salts, broke its legs then let it come too. She said he was laughing so much about it. To be fair, that is a classic in a murderer's psychological profile; most serial killers get their early kicks from hurting animals and then progress on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robsk II Posted 18 November, 2008 Author Share Posted 18 November, 2008 yeah, DMSs spot on. It's a really well known 'classic' early trait that many of the most notorious killers have exhibited early on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 18 November, 2008 Share Posted 18 November, 2008 yeah, DMSs spot on. It's a really well known 'classic' early trait that many of the most notorious killers have exhibited early on. You'd think they'd know that and would therefore avoid doing it so as to not leave any clues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now