Ideal midfield in a 4-4-2.

[Danish Saint]

Looking at our current squad, what would you say is our starting 4 in midfield?

 

My bid:

Guly - Cork - Chaplow - Lallana

[Thedelldays]

OxO - Cork - Morgan - Lallana

[Colinjb]

OxO - Cork - Morgan - Lallana

 

This. With Chaplow and Hamster as more then capable backup.

[West End Saint]

OxO - Cork - Morgan - Lallana

 

Agreed DD this would also by my midfield if we can hang on to Chambo get a another quality striker & centre back I think we have a really good side that will compete & challenge next season

[Turkish]

Guly Chaplow Hammond Dickson

[Colinjb]

Guly Chaplow Hammond Dickson

 

Can't quite see it myself Turkish.

[Dellman]

Hey, we're capable of great variety, must be good!

[Saint Garrett]

Would have thought the best technically will be Oxo - Cork - Schneiderlin - Lallana. Whether we start the season with that is a different story and I expect the personel to change due to the opposition. Would like to see that midfield start against Leeds though, or a 4231 with Cork and Scneiderlin as the deep 2.

[Saint Charlie]

---------Cork---------Morgan---------

 

Chambo--------Lallana--------New Winger

 

-----------------Lambert---------------

[Colinjb]

Hey, we're capable of great variety, must be good!

 

Absolutely. That we have competition for every single place, and we are still looking to strengthen, is fantastic. It's been years since we've had such a deep squad.

[Window Cleaner]

---------Cork---------Morgan---------

 

Chambo--------Lallana--------New Winger

 

-----------------Lambert---------------

 

Nope, neither Lallana nor Lambert are potent enough in front of goal for that to work.If you're going to play Lambert you need a striker with himConnolly,Guly,Barnard or A.N.Other,this is why we are obliged to play classic 4-4-2 most of the time rather than 4-2-3-1

[Colinjb]

Nope, neither Lallana nor Lambert are potent enough in front of goal for that to work.If you're going to play Lambert you need a striker with himConnolly,Guly,Barnard or A.N.Other,this is why we are obliged to play classic 4-4-2 most of the time rather than 4-2-3-1

 

Agree, if we were to do that I would be more tempted to play Rickie in the hole. Use his latent footballing ability to hold up possession and bring others into play while also being a tangible threat himself.

 

-------------- Cork ----------- Morgan -------------

 

Chamberlain ---------- Rickie ---------------- Lallana

 

------------------Barnard/Connolly------------------

[Danish Saint]

Agree, if we were to do that I would be more tempted to play Rickie in the hole. Use his latent footballing ability to hold up possession and bring others into play while also being a tangible threat himself.

 

-------------- Cork ----------- Morgan -------------

 

Chamberlain ---------- Rickie ---------------- Lallana

 

------------------Barnard/Connolly------------------

 

That's a very offensive midfield. Would require a lot of covering from our backs, as neither Chamberlain or Lallana are defensive minded.

[Saint Garrett]

Agree, if we were to do that I would be more tempted to play Rickie in the hole. Use his latent footballing ability to hold up possession and bring others into play while also being a tangible threat himself.

 

-------------- Cork ----------- Morgan -------------

 

Chamberlain ---------- Rickie ---------------- Lallana

 

------------------Barnard/Connolly------------------

 

This was pretty much what we played last season, but with Hammond instead of Cork.

[Window Cleaner]

Agree, if we were to do that I would be more tempted to play Rickie in the hole. Use his latent footballing ability to hold up possession and bring others into play while also being a tangible threat himself.

 

-------------- Cork ----------- Morgan -------------

 

Chamberlain ---------- Rickie ---------------- Lallana

 

------------------Barnard/Connolly------------------

 

Yes that's better but of course it leaves no place for a "new winger". Can't see why we'd need one myself because if Holmes can stay fit he's probably just as able as anyone for whom we may pay 1M£. Now if we had a real striker I'd be tempted to play Holmes on the wing R or L as you like switching during the game and use Ox in the free role behind the striker.This wouldn't work with Lambert though so it is probably highly unlikely to happen

 

--------Cork---------Morgan------------

 

---Holmes--------Ox-------------Lallana

 

-A striker who can shift his ass when needed--------

[Crab Lungs]

-------------- Cork ----------- Morgan -------------

 

Chamberlain ---------- Lallana ---------------- Holmes

 

----------------------Lambert------------------

 

Three of the four "attacking" players are more than capable of chipping in around 50 goals between them and Holmes would likely, if fit, give us a huge spark in creativity that we sometimes lacked at points last year. Then there is Fonte and Jaidi, who shouldn't be bet against for getting 5-10 goals between them themselves...

 

...or am I being too optimistic?

[Alanh]

In a 4-4-2 firts choice has got to be AOC - Schneiderlin - Cork - Lallana, but as with many others I prefer a 4-2-3-1 and would go for:

 

Cork - Schneiderlin

AOC - Guly - Lallana

Lambert

 

While Rickie isn't going to play on the shoulder of the last defender in this formation he is going to be able to hold up the ball and bring others into play and with the other attacking players around him there should always be someone who can make that run beyond the defence.

[dubai_phil]

We did not play 4-4-2 last season.

 

And almost certainly will not again this season

 

HTH

[No 2 to Maybush]

LOL 4 posts on topic.

[Saint Charlie]

Nope, neither Lallana nor Lambert are potent enough in front of goal for that to work.If you're going to play Lambert you need a striker with himConnolly,Guly,Barnard or A.N.Other,this is why we are obliged to play classic 4-4-2 most of the time rather than 4-2-3-1

 

Lambert not potent in front of goal? Really?

[Saint_clark]

Since when did Lambert and Lallana not become goal threats?

[Window Cleaner]

Lambert not potent in front of goal? Really?

 

really....................Barnard was our leading open play scorer last season,if Barney had taken and scored penalties instead of Lambert (provided he was on the pitch of course) he'd have scored 23 goals to Lambert's 21,given that he only had about 2/3rds of a season that ain't bad.

 

Take away Barney's and Guly's goals last season and we'd have been in dire straights,which is why we just cannot rely on Lambert to get us the goals we need so you need another striker with him at all times.

[Thedelldays]

really....................Barnard was our leading open play scorer last season,if Barney had taken and scored penalties instead of Lambert (provided he was on the pitch of course) he'd have scored 23 goals to Lambert's 21,given that he only had about 2/3rds of a season that ain't bad.

 

Take away Barney's and Guly's goals last season and we'd have been in dire straights,which is why we just cannot rely on Lambert to get us the goals we need so you need another striker with him at all times.

take MLT pentalties away and his scoring record was nothing special over 17+ years

[Saint Garrett]

Barnard was our best player for the first half of the season...but to state that Lallana and Lambert arent potent in front of goal, is just silly.

[Window Cleaner]

take MLT pentalties away and his scoring record was nothing special over 17+ years

 

exactly :Probably why he never ever got much international recognition,MLT was a midfielder anyway,not our main striker,might have been our leading scorer though because he could shove them in from anywhere from open play situations, Lambert can't do that.

[Colinjb]

Since when did Lambert and Lallana not become goal threats?

 

They are goal threats, but it's strange, I wouldn't think of them as out and out strikers or poachers. They are forwards (or in Adam's case an attacking midfielder who has traits you would normally associate with a forward) who do score but who also contribute far more then just a goal threat.

 

We don't have anyone in the squad who just scores goals. All players we have seem to do more, there is no Clinton Morrison or Peter Crouch type. A target man, an out and out goalscorer. Maybe it's just indicative of how we play under Nigel Adkins, we want players who don't just fit into a pigeon hole. Certainly, under Pardew Rickie was an out and out forward but last year that changed. He started drifting wide, chasing down play more.

 

Considering that one of the big problems with Pard's team was it's 'predictability' for poorer opposition then maybe it's a good thing. We had a fair few frustrating home draws in his tenure, something that Nigel banished. We are now a far more versatile unit.

[Saint Fan CaM]

It's pretty exciting thinking about the depth and quality of the squad in midfield and attack this coming season. It will be interesting to see how Adkins manages the likes of Hammond, who despite being Captain, may not be the obvious 1st choice at NPC level. Having said that, what we do know is that when injuries and suspensions start to dig into the squad the position will look different. I think the 4-2-3-1 system will work particularly in away games, however a more 4-4-2 shape with a strike partner for Lambert might suit home games more. There are so many permutations - the midfield/attack might look like this perhaps...

 

------------- Cork Morgan

 

OxO/Holmes Hammond/Chaplow Forte/Lallana

 

------ Lambert/Barnie/Guly/Connolly

 

In fact, the more I think about it, the less likely it seems we will sign a striker (unless there are big concerns with Barnies availability post-October). The key gaps at the moment seem to be more at CB.

[Matthew Le God]

It's pretty exciting thinking about the depth and quality of the squad in midfield and attack this coming season. It will be interesting to see how Adkins manages the likes of Hammond, who despite being Captain, may not be the obvious 1st choice at NPC level. Having said that, what we do know is that when injuries and suspensions start to dig into the squad the position will look different. I think the 4-2-3-1 system will work particularly in away games, however a more 4-4-2 shape with a strike partner for Lambert might suit home games more. There are so many permutations - the midfield/attack might look like this perhaps...

 

------------- Cork Morgan

 

OxO/Holmes Hammond/Chaplow Forte/Lallana

 

------ Lambert/Barnie/Guly/Connolly

 

In fact, the more I think about it, the less likely it seems we will sign a striker (unless there are big concerns with Barnies availability post-October). The key gaps at the moment seem to be more at CB.

 

Hammond and Chaplow aren't suited at all to that role, they are central midfielders, not central attacking midfielders. Of the current squad, Guly and Lallana would be best there.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Hammond and Chaplow aren't suited at all to that role, they are central midfielders, not central attacking midfielders. Of the current squad, Guly and Lallana would be best there.

 

Sorry, but I can't agree with that nuts statement atall! Particularly wrt Chaplow who has a great box to box motor and if you watched him carefully last season, you would see that he was one of the first players to attack the opposition penalty area (typified by his excellent goal against Manure). And if Guly and Lallana would be best at CM, why are they NEVER played there? It's because either they're not suited and/or we have better options - like Chaplow and Hammond for example!

[Saint Charlie]

Sorry, but I can't agree with that nuts statement atall! Particularly wrt Chaplow who has a great box to box motor and if you watched him carefully last season, you would see that he was one of the first players to attack the opposition penalty area (typified by his excellent goal against Manure). And if Guly and Lallana would be best at CM, why are they NEVER played there? It's because either they're not suited and/or we have better options - like Chaplow and Hammond for example!

 

It's because we don't play that system. We play with two deeper lying central midfielders. Yes, Chaplow gets in the box but he doesn't play as a "no 10" like Guly and Lallana can, for example the Blackpool cup game.

[Matthew Le God]

Sorry, but I can't agree with that nuts statement at all! Particularly wrt Chaplow who has a great box to box motor and if you watched him carefully last season, you would see that he was one of the first players to attack the opposition penalty area (typified by his excellent goal against Manure). And if Guly and Lallana would be best at CM, why are they NEVER played there? It's because either they're not suited and/or we have better options - like Chaplow and Hammond for example!

 

Not me with the "nuts statement".

 

You are confusing central midfield in a 442, with a central attacking midfielder in a 4231 formation.

 

The latter is not looking for a "box to box" player like Chaplow as you state. The role behind the lone striker needs to be a creative very attacking player, ala Lallana or Guly. I didn't say for them to play in central midfield, the 4231 formation doesn't require the central player in the 3 behind the striker to be particularly defensive and thus isn't a typical central midfield role.

Edited 18 July, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[The Kraken]

If we're going to play one up front and 3 in midfield then Guly is the only proper solution for the "number 10"; that's by far his best position IMO.

[Window Cleaner]

You are confusing central midfield in a 442, with a central attacking midfielder in a 4231 formation.

 

The latter is not looking for a "box to box" player like Chaplow as you state. The role behind the lone striker needs to be a creative very attacking player, ala Lallana or Guly. I didn't not say for them to play in central midfield, the 4231 formation doesn't require the central player in the 3 behind the strikers to be particularly defensive and thus isn't a typical central midfield role.

 

Not me with the "nuts statement".

 

correct, in a 4-2-3-1 formation the central player of the "3" element is the playmaker, the other 2 are the wide players .The 2 behind are recoverers/relayers, they do not need to spend all of their time in the opponents box, in fact none of their time, that's why player in these roles do not score goals,that's down to the 4 men in front of them.

 

This formation came from the classic Arsenal side of 1997/8, the defence complained that they were being over-run because the midfield was too far forward, Wenger simply put in Viera and Petit to defend and break down play in front of the back 4.This is something that Saints must tackle,I hope to see Lallana really step up into his playmaker role this season when he's doing the same stuff as Nasri we'll know that he has.If he can't then we should let Ox have a stab at it, I'm sure that it would be just second nature to him.

[Appy]

Chambo-Morgan-Cork-Lallana at home.

 

Chambo-Hammond-Cork-Lallana away from home.

[Mowgli]

I wouldn't have thought it needs much debate. In a 4 our midfield has rarely picked itself or looked so balanced quite like that.

 

And if we can hang on to Oxo it will be the better than any of the optimistic signing featured on the 'rumours / HCDAJFU' pages

[david in sweden]

Looking at our current squad, what would you say is our starting 4 in midfield?

 

My bid:

Guly - Cork - Chaplow - Lallana

 

you're very brave Danish....!

 

looking at those who played midfield last season ...we have;

Holmes, Hammond, Schneiderlin, Alex OC, Chaplow, Lallana, Dickson, Guly, Forte, and now Cork (not counting Puncheon of course).

 

so it's a case of ...perm any 4 from 10......what are the bookies odds on getting the correct midfield line-up every week?.

[up and away]

---------Cork---------Morgan---------

 

Chambo--------Lallana--------New Winger

 

-----------------Lambert---------------

 

 

The problem we have had is that Lambert is too static and requires support from the midfield, which then causes an imbalance. Unless you have a striker that can work off his own back without the need for support, you will always have this issue of compromising the midfield. You need a striker that can take the opposition on alone and produce results. Not all the time but sufficient that you don't make life easy for the defence. It is very difficult to play the counter attack with Ricky, because of his lack of pace and the imbalance this creates. This is the problem we need to solve, then all of a sudden the midfield becomes far less of an issue.

This so reminds me of the situation with Rasiak, a good striker that requires to be fed to do the business, creating an imbalance in the process.

[Saint Charlie]

I agree to an extent, Lambert would actually be very good as the number 10 I think, especially if the striker was quick. He is one of the best passers we have an has a great technique for long range shooting.

[Turkish]

Can't quite see it myself Turkish.

 

This midfield is class IMO.dean is the DM we have and our captain and leader, he has a big role to play this season. Chaplow is the only CM we have capable of breaking forward and he has a better engine than JC and MS. Outwide Guly is a bit of an enigma but likely to pop up with A goal from that position, like he did away at Daggenham. Dickson is quality he crossing is world class, look the one for Lamberts header away at Orient. People over rate chamberlain, don't forget our best form last season came when he was injured.

[Avenue Saint]

OxO - Cork - Morgan - Lallana

 

This

[Saint Garrett]

This midfield is class IMO.dean is the DM we have and our captain and leader, he has a big role to play this season. Chaplow is the only CM we have capable of breaking forward and he has a better engine than JC and MS. Outwide Guly is a bit of an enigma but likely to pop up with A goal from that position, like he did away at Daggenham. Dickson is quality he crossing is world class, look the one for Lamberts header away at Orient. People over rate chamberlain, don't forget our best form last season came when he was injured.

 

So you wouldnt have Lallana or Chamberlain in your midfield......It's a good thing you're not in charge !

[Turkish]

So you wouldnt have Lallana or Chamberlain in your midfield......It's a good thing you're not in charge !

 

Some of you seem to forget as good as Lallana was in L1 he is unproven in the championship, last time round he looked lightweight and not up to it. He still has a lot to prove as this level.

 

When it mattered at the business end of last season, we were a better side without Chamberlain. As we know the best players dont always make the best teams, Chamberlain needs to work hard and win his place back as at the moment we should be sticking with the team which proved itself the last 14 games of last season.

 

On the other hand we have already been told by many on here Guly will excel this season and will get more time on the ball, based on this he is a shoe in as he was at times, marvelous last season. On the left Dickson has the pace many have been asking for and his crossing is excellent as he showed last season, he would be the ideal person to feed Lambert.

[Appy]

Morgan really needs to add at least 5 goals a season to his game.

[Badger]

OxO - Cork - Morgan - Lallana

 

Individually they are the most talented four available, but depends if and how they gel as a unit.Somehow I think either Hammond or Chaplow will add more to the midfield four, than they individually bring (if that makes sense).

[Matthew Le God]

Morgan really needs to add at least 5 goals a season to his game.

 

His game as the midfield anchor, sitting in front of the back four for most of a match? It really doesn't matter if he doesn't score, it simply isn't his role in the team to get forward into positions where he could score that often.

Edited 18 July, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[The Kraken]

His game as the midfield anchor, sitting in front of the back four for most of a match? It really doesn't matter if he doesn't score, it simply isn't his role in the team to get forward into positions where he could score that often.

 

The problem with that has been that, at least with Hammond, both of them seem to want to play that role. Chaplow seemed to be a bit of fresh air when he first came in, in that he seemed more inclined to bomb on and support the front line. It'll be interesting to see how it works out with Cork, and whether Morgan sitting will encourage Cork to play a slightly more advanced role.

[Matthew Le God]

The problem with that has been that, at least with Hammond, both of them seem to want to play that role. Chaplow seemed to be a bit of fresh air when he first came in, in that he seemed more inclined to bomb on and support the front line. It'll be interesting to see how it works out with Cork, and whether Morgan sitting will encourage Cork to play a slightly more advanced role.

 

Cork played for Burnley in a very different role to how Schneiderlin does for Saints. He is good at getting forward and very good on the ball. Cork can be the box to box player and Schneiderlin the holding player. Should compliment each other very well, with Lallana and Chamberlain on the wings the midfield looks balanced.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdMhFjcjGO8

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNvOJ3Kqd6c&feature=related

Edited 18 July, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[Appy]

His game as the midfield anchor, sitting in front of the back four for most of a match? It really doesn't matter if he doesn't score, it simply isn't his role in the team to get forward into positions where he could score that often.

 

So you don't think he should shoot more?

 

Cork,Hammond,Schneiderlin and Chaplow, at least 2 of them needs to score 5 or more goals.

 

Who will?

[Matthew Le God]

So you don't think he should shoot more?

 

His role means he will rarely get into the position to have a shot. Getting him to shoot for shootings sake from long range when better options are available to him, is a daft idea.

 

Cork,Hammond,Schneiderlin and Chaplow, at least 2 of them needs to score 5 or more goals.

 

Why do they? Saints got promoted last season without two central midfielders getting 5 or more goals. As long as they are in a team that creates chances and scores goals collectively you don't need to assign a goal target for each position, especially if it disrupts the overall performance of a tactic.

Edited 18 July, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[Smirking_Saint]

Fonte and Davis need to score at least 4 or more goals this season, I fully expect Adkins to pop up with one also