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SWF Server - Early predictions


Thedelldays

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again, this place is terrible...I would love to know what our money goes on as this has been a big problem for years...

how come many other free sites dont have this problem...why cant we know where our money goes...

why is it still utter turd...???

 

years, this has been going on for

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Surely there's an option in the admin panel to disable all images which could be used while a game's on? Doing so would cause a significant reduction in bandwidth load on the server and I doubt anybody would moan if the site became usable.

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Good luck with that. I asked before but got a 'none of your business' (in so many words). As a result I no longer pay.

 

If that is the case then i am pretty sure things need to be clarified.

 

I was always under the assumption that this was a website run from amongst Saints fans for Saints fans and would not be a profit making site. All money generated would go into running the site? Was that not the reason why we all offered to pay the money to begin with when the old site went down?

 

If it is a site where one or two guys are making money from the fans then i think that is pretty disgusting. Especially in the light that it does not actually work.....

 

If that is the road these guys have gone down then seeing as it is a LTD company shouldn't they be showing its members the yearly numbers? If it is a Private company limited by guarantee then they are under law not allowed to distribute profits. Seeing as there are no shares it is not a Private company limited by shares or public limited company.

 

That is not me saying someone is taking the money it is me saying we as "members" have a right to know how the funds are spent. By keeping it quiet raises suspicion.

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Good luck with that. I asked before but got a 'none of your business' (in so many words). As a result I no longer pay.

 

FWIW I think a chatroom, rather than a forum is most appropriate for matchdays. vBulletin isn't designed to be mashed with refreshes, that plus I suspect the hardware is either low end or inefficiently configured. Plus it would cut out 10 people telling me Lambert has scored - tonight that got confusing :) as I thought it was still 1-0!!

 

twitter tbh, just save the #saintsfc hashtag and you'll be able to keep updated easier, plus you'll get content from OfficialSaints + Solent dropped in.

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The ONLY original reason for moving to server where people had to pay, was so that the problems on match days would be sorted. SWF has never succeeded in delivering that, yet you all sign up to keep paying for the service you never get. I've never understood why. Is it so you can share your opinions on here more than three times a day? You do know that a server that can do that would actually be free don't you? And there are loads of websites out there where you can post as much as you like without paying?

 

What do YOU think you're getting for your money?

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how come many other free sites dont have this problem...

Because many other free sites don’t have numerous mongs hitting F5 continuously causing a DDOS.

 

Quite simply, a forum is not designed to be used as a chat room. It would be far more beneficial for the admins to force everyone to use an IRC chat room or similar by closing the forum and providing a link to mibbit.com etc.

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Does this site make good money out of the ads?

 

I always hoped it would so that it could go back to the good old days of Keiths Saints forum where its free to start topics and there is no limit on posts.

 

And where the forum NEVER crashed during matches.

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I fear I have forgotten its match day problems - didn't TSF try match day chat rooms and it didn't really work?

 

It had a lot of mongs on it but there was also a lot of golden threads because of the vast amount of traffic.

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So is there actually any chance of the site owners addressing this issue? A fair few people pay £5 for a service which doesn't actually work. A lot more people (myself included) don't use the match threads yet also pay the £5, as I potentially may want to post more than 3 times a day. Either way, a lot of people are handing over cash for a service they either don't want or can't get.

 

So what's the next solution?

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Good luck with that. I asked before but got a 'none of your business' (in so many words). As a result I no longer pay.

 

FWIW I think a chatroom, rather than a forum is most appropriate for matchdays. vBulletin isn't designed to be mashed with refreshes, that plus I suspect the hardware is either low end or inefficiently configured. Plus it would cut out 10 people telling me Lambert has scored - tonight that got confusing :) as I thought it was still 1-0!!

 

Err, just get the accounts if you are that interested...

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I was always under the assumption that this was a website run from amongst Saints fans for Saints fans and would not be a profit making site. All money generated would go into running the site? Was that not the reason why we all offered to pay the money to begin with when the old site went down?

Correct. That remains the case.

 

If it is a site where one or two guys are making money from the fans then i think that is pretty disgusting. Especially in the light that it does not actually work.....

Feel free to download the accounts from Companies House, they're very easy to acquire. Neither Baj or I have taken a penny out, despite the countless hours we put in running this place. In fact, we both still pay the fiver subscription fee like everyone else.

 

If that is the road these guys have gone down then seeing as it is a LTD company shouldn't they be showing its members the yearly numbers?

SaintsWeb Ltd is a limited company. It does not have "members". That would be a club or society, which SaintsWeb is not. As I said above, you can obtain the figures from Companies House if you're really that bothered.

 

If it is a Private company limited by guarantee then they are under law not allowed to distribute profits. Seeing as there are no shares it is not a Private company limited by shares or public limited company.

So much wrong with that statement. There are shares, 100 of them in fact. I own 50 of them, Baj owns the other 50. All limited companies are limited by guarantee, what that basically means is that unless we are criminally negligent, the directors can't be held personally liable for any debts accrued by the company if the company were unable to pay them. Profits can be distributed to shareholders in the form of a dividend. However, as you will see from the accounts if you can be arsed to actually look for them (hint: http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk), no dividend has ever been paid, and there are no plans to do so either.

 

That is not me saying someone is taking the money it is me saying we as "members" have a right to know how the funds are spent. By keeping it quiet raises suspicion.

See above. SaintsWeb isn't a members club or trust where everyone gets a vote.

 

Now I've got those rather odd questions/statements out of the way, what is happening right now (and has been for the past two months) is that we have a brand new server which the company I work for has bought. The spec for this server is light years ahead of anything we've had previously, and I'll also be able to hand over the technical maintenance of the hardware to our sysadmin geek here, who knows a hell of a lot more about server management than I do. I've managed to negotiate a rate which I feel is good value for money (as a guide, for the same price with big-name hosting companies, we'd get about a quarter of the server power) and gives us space in what is probably the UK's most powerful data centre in central London, which should improve the data speeds we get. The rate we'll be paying is a fair bit more than we're currently paying, but the advertising revenue has increased sufficiently in the last six months for me to justify the extra spending.

 

I'm not 100% sure on the timescales for actually getting this server up and running, it's possible that it might be installed at the data centre by the end of the week, but we won't be migrating everything until next week at the earliest. I'll keep you posted.

 

If any of that sounds particularly scatty, then sorry, but to be honest I'm a bit fed up of the same old people whinging (and you know exactly who you are) when they don't seem willing or able to put forward any actual solutions themselves.

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If any of that sounds particularly scatty, then sorry, but to be honest I'm a bit fed up of the same old people whinging (and you know exactly who you are) when they don't seem willing or able to put forward any actual solutions themselves.

 

I don't use the match thread facility so I'm fairly new to the failing server experiences that many others have seen.

 

However, it seems to be a common theme that many have suggested the forum only be open for Full Members during match time. Is this not a viable solution? Or would it make little difference?

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I haven't paid as I haven't renewed my subs as most games etc i'm at game but .. The moaning & crap thats coming about the service is really shocking .. it's a £5 .. a FIVER .. ffs thats about the same as 16 tabloid newspapers a year .. please get a grip & put it in perspective! just how far do you think that goes running a domain a server putting time in network connectivity etc etc etc .. IF there was in excess of 30,000 so the income was a good chunk then I could understand better!

 

Some clearly like to have something to complain about. & you do have a choice, you can still post & read the forum if you dont pay..

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All limited companies are limited by guarantee, what that basically means is that unless we are criminally negligent, the directors can't be held personally liable for any debts accrued by the company if the company were unable to pay them. Profits can be distributed to shareholders in the form of a dividend. However, as you will see from the accounts if you can be arsed to actually look for them (hint: http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk), no dividend has ever been paid, and there are no plans to do so either.

 

Just to clarify, companies can be limited either by share or guarantee, and the liability is either the guarantee (usually £1) or the unpaid value on any shares held. So if you and Baj are shareholders then it sounds like you're a company limited by share. ( See Business Link info ) If it was by guarantee then you wouldn't hold any shares, you would be 'guarantors' only.

 

This doesn't affect anything inparticular, and as Steve rightly says, if people are really that bothered, they can check the accounts for themselves, but in the interests of clarity, thought it worth mentioning.

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However, it seems to be a common theme that many have suggested the forum only be open for Full Members during match time. Is this not a viable solution? Or would it make little difference?

I'm not entirely convinced, and I'm also fairly mindful that I don't want to exclude people who have registered on the site. I've no problem making the main board only visible to people who are logged in, so that prevents those who aren't registered at all from hogging any of the bandwidth, but I'd like to analyse the ratio of paid/non-paid members there are on matchdays before making that sort of call. After all, the £5 subscription was always intended for those who wanted the full bells and whistles, rather than simply being able to use the forum at peak times.

 

The logistics for that sort of thing would be an absolute ballache as well, at the moment it would need either Baj or I to be online shortly before and after every game to make the permissions changes so only paid members could use the main board. I could write a script to do it, but I need to be certain that it's actually going to benefit everyone. That doesn't necessarily solve the problem either, as non-paid members might think they might as well just create their own match thread on one of the other boards, while there's potentially nobody around to put a stop to it.

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I'm not entirely convinced, and I'm also fairly mindful that I don't want to exclude people who have registered on the site. I've no problem making the main board only visible to people who are logged in, so that prevents those who aren't registered at all from hogging any of the bandwidth, but I'd like to analyse the ratio of paid/non-paid members there are on matchdays before making that sort of call. After all, the £5 subscription was always intended for those who wanted the full bells and whistles, rather than simply being able to use the forum at peak times.

 

The logistics for that sort of thing would be an absolute ballache as well, at the moment it would need either Baj or I to be online shortly before and after every game to make the permissions changes so only paid members could use the main board. I could write a script to do it, but I need to be certain that it's actually going to benefit everyone. That doesn't necessarily solve the problem either, as non-paid members might think they might as well just create their own match thread on one of the other boards, while there's potentially nobody around to put a stop to it.

 

Cheers for the response.

 

In truth, we all shouldn't really be getting too upset it all. I'm sure it's frustrating for the people that want to use the match threads though; so if the next form of changes fix it all, great. But it's not as if this is the only scoreline service on the web, Saints Twitter is proving to be a very popular resource.

 

As I said before, I don't use the match threads, so it doesn't really affect me too much. In restrospect though, I'm quite happy to keep paying the fiver. It's worth us all remembering something; back when Saints Forever was in operation it wasn't exactly a free site. I was among many posters who donated towards the site to keep up with the ever increasing costs that were being incurred as the site got more popular. We should just see the £5 a year as an extension of that.

 

But if the server problems can be fixed, all the better!

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As I said before, I don't use the match threads, so it doesn't really affect me too much. In restrospect though, I'm quite happy to keep paying the fiver. It's worth us all remembering something; back when Saints Forever was in operation it wasn't exactly a free site. I was among many posters who donated towards the site to keep up with the ever increasing costs that were being incurred as the site got more popular.

Also worth bearing in mind that while many sites are free at the point of use, someone somewhere is paying for the site to be hosted. Whether that's on a network like the old Rivals sites, where Rivals pays all the costs and distributes a portion of the advertising revenue into the pockets of the individual site editors, or an independent site who just happens to have an admin who's happy to cover the cost themselves. While I'd love to fall into the latter category, I've not made my millions yet, so for now it'll have to wait.

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Can I also add, that many of the users of this site have mentioned "it was alright on saints forever, why isn't it alright now? Keith ran it off just donations".

Two things, firstly this website gets around 6 times the amount of traffic than saintsforever did, and secondly website software has moved on, this forum is generations ahead of the one before. Yes, we could always roll back to that version of the forum, and I could always trade in my car for an original austin allegro.

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Correct. If any of that sounds particularly scatty, then sorry, but to be honest I'm a bit fed up of the same old people whinging (and you know exactly who you are) when they don't seem willing or able to put forward any actual solutions themselves.

 

Steve, I'm not IT qualified, hell, I can't even multi quote, or post images, so I have no solution to this problem. I have always maintained that I'd pay more for the service, if the service was good, and 90% of the time, it is, except during matches. Which lets face it, is a big part of what I personally enjoy on here. It also appears that you have it in hand, and I look forward to the changes, lets all hope this thread is not be re-visited in two weeks time.

 

Cheers to both you and Baj, it must be a thankless task at times.

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As a partly independent response to the new server plans, I have to say that Steve has come up trumps. The new server we will be running, along with "connection speed" it will be sat on is light years ahead of what we have at the moment. To get what we have for the price that steve has negotiated is a bit of a coup, especially given that it will be looked after by a proper systems administrator, as opposed to two programmers who do sys admin as "part" of their day jobs. I for one am excited :)

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So a new super server is coming "again". That must be about two years after we were asked to pay five pounds, the reason for which was to stop the forum crashing at peak times (matchdays).

Boj says the old Saintsforever would be like going back to an old car, what exactly does this place do that the old site didn't? People type out a post and hit submit, that's it isn't it? "all bells and whistles" Eddie mentions. Make the site like the old one and maybe it will work and the adverts alone will cover the costs. Seems to me this place has taken forums backwards if anything.

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So a new super server is coming "again". That must be about two years after we were asked to pay five pounds, the reason for which was to stop the forum crashing at peak times (matchdays).

Boj says the old Saintsforever would be like going back to an old car, what exactly does this place do that the old site didn't? People type out a post and hit submit, that's it isn't it? "all bells and whistles" Eddie mentions. Make the site like the old one and maybe it will work and the adverts alone will cover the costs. Seems to me this place has taken forums backwards if anything.

 

Moaning and expected to be taken seriously whilst using insulting monikers for the admins, good work.

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Moaning and expected to be taken seriously whilst using insulting monikers for the admins, good work.

 

To be fair though, he does raise a decent question. You mention that this forum is miles better than the one SaintsForever had, but what does this forum offer that the old one didn't?

 

Thanks for the replies thus far, and stevegrant you say you're fed up with people constantly moaning... the only reason we moan is because we pay money for a service which isn't up to it on a match day! It's not something we enjoy or have as a hobby.

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SaintsWeb Ltd is a limited company. It does not have "members". That would be a club or society, which SaintsWeb is not.

 

 

SaintsWeb isn't a members club or trust where everyone gets a vote.

 

Now I've got those rather odd questions/statements out of the way,.

 

Thanks for the reply Steve. It makes things a bit clearer.

 

However i think i need to point out those "odd questions" are not odd at all. As you mentioned you are "a limited company". I suggest you go read up on business regulations because there are various types of limited companies. Of which each has to follow a different set of rules as minty expanded on. As i said i always thought that the website was a members website where the subscribers run the website. Their payments are what fund the business. That is not a "club or society" that is a "Private company limited by guarantee" as i mentioned above. The "guarantors" are the members. And the members are paying subscribers. I am pretty sure when we started talking about creating a new forum it was sold on the fact the "members" would have a say in how it is run i.e on key decisions?

 

But as you explained the site is actually owned by 2 people thus is a "Private company limited by shares". Which i also mentioned above. Sorry you found it odd.

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Moaning and expected to be taken seriously whilst using insulting monikers for the admins, good work.

but it is a fair point...you seem happy for people keep paying up (IE fund this place) yet after years of promises, it is still awful on matchdays......

 

we were asked to pay a few years back to cover the costs of the poor performance on matchdays..£15 later, it is still awful and not as advertised...

 

why not let it stay awful, stop worrying about what a difficult job is and host a free site (with adverts if need be)...???

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but it is a fair point...you seem happy for people keep paying up (IE fund this place) yet after years of promises, it is still awful on matchdays......

 

we were asked to pay a few years back to cover the costs of the poor performance on matchdays..£15 later, it is still awful and not as advertised...

 

why not let it stay awful, stop worrying about what a difficult job is and host a free site (with adverts if need be)...???

 

Have to agree with you there TDD. I was at the game last night so not affected but it is a pain. I would consider this new super server option the last chance saloon. If it doesn't work after this then I would suggest that the admin give it up because it simply isn't working and this has been over two years now.

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First things first, as many others have pointed out, Steve & Baj, you are doing a great job and producing a brilliant service 95% of the time apart from match days.

 

However, reading North Stand Chat tonight (Brighton Forum), they currently have 1273 members online on the main board plus however many viewers like myself that aren't registered. They have 3 main forums with 14 sub forums. It is a match day (night) and they have a full blown 23 page thread and the whole forum is running superbly with no slowdowns. Why does ours crash when we have as little as 300ish (?) members online? Is our current server that bad or is theirs as good as what we are going to have in the next couple of weeks?

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First things first, as many others have pointed out, Steve & Baj, you are doing a great job and producing a brilliant service 95% of the time apart from match days.

 

However, reading North Stand Chat tonight (Brighton Forum), they currently have 1273 members online on the main board plus however many viewers like myself that aren't registered. They have 3 main forums with 14 sub forums. It is a match day (night) and they have a full blown 23 page thread and the whole forum is running superbly with no slowdowns. Why does ours crash when we have as little as 300ish (?) members online? Is our current server that bad or is theirs as good as what we are going to have in the next couple of weeks?

Without knowing what their setup is, I've no idea, to be honest.

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Without knowing what their setup is, I've no idea, to be honest.

 

With all due respect; would it not be prudent (before spending a whole load more money on another untried system) to find out which setups similar football forums use, and emulate one of the successful ones?

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Two points, with a common theme. Rather than hide behind smoke, mirrors and flashy language why not just state

 

1. What exactly this new server, light years ahead of the current one, actually is, its configuration and let those in the know decide whether it's light years ahead or not

 

2. Rather than the "if you want to see the accounts, go download them yourself" stance why not just publish them on the board. If there is nothing to be ashamed off in them why the reluctance to make them available

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Two points, with a common theme. Rather than hide behind smoke, mirrors and flashy language why not just state

 

1. What exactly this new server, light years ahead of the current one, actually is, its configuration and let those in the know decide whether it's light years ahead or not

 

2. Rather than the "if you want to see the accounts, go download them yourself" stance why not just publish them on the board. If there is nothing to be ashamed off in them why the reluctance to make them available

 

1. They are in the know techno nerds who work with even bigger nerds.

 

2. Don't worry...wikileaks are just about to reveal all on the smoking gun that is the Saintsweb finances...this one goes all the way to the top people.

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Unbelievable, some of you complain about paying a fiver a year or 1.37 pence a day. £5 won't get you a packet of fags these days, not much change for a pint, three loaves of bread or about 12 pints of milk, the fags will only last a day, a pint about 20 minutes and the bread and milk about a fortnight. Some of you need to get a life.

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To be fair though, he does raise a decent question. You mention that this forum is miles better than the one SaintsForever had, but what does this forum offer that the old one didn't?

 

Thanks for the replies thus far, and stevegrant you say you're fed up with people constantly moaning... the only reason we moan is because we pay money for a service which isn't up to it on a match day! It's not something we enjoy or have as a hobby.

 

You don't pay a fiver just for a matchday but for a service 365 days a year.

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Two points, with a common theme. Rather than hide behind smoke, mirrors and flashy language why not just state

 

1. What exactly this new server, light years ahead of the current one, actually is, its configuration and let those in the know decide whether it's light years ahead or not

 

2. Rather than the "if you want to see the accounts, go download them yourself" stance why not just publish them on the board. If there is nothing to be ashamed off in them why the reluctance to make them available

 

Why the reluctance to look up yourself, it's not difficult plus Steve gave you a link to click on to make it easier for you.

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Correct. That remains the case.

 

 

Feel free to download the accounts from Companies House, they're very easy to acquire. Neither Baj or I have taken a penny out, despite the countless hours we put in running this place. In fact, we both still pay the fiver subscription fee like everyone else.

 

 

SaintsWeb Ltd is a limited company. It does not have "members". That would be a club or society, which SaintsWeb is not. As I said above, you can obtain the figures from Companies House if you're really that bothered.

 

 

So much wrong with that statement. There are shares, 100 of them in fact. I own 50 of them, Baj owns the other 50. All limited companies are limited by guarantee, what that basically means is that unless we are criminally negligent, the directors can't be held personally liable for any debts accrued by the company if the company were unable to pay them. Profits can be distributed to shareholders in the form of a dividend. However, as you will see from the accounts if you can be arsed to actually look for them (hint: http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk), no dividend has ever been paid, and there are no plans to do so either.

 

 

See above. SaintsWeb isn't a members club or trust where everyone gets a vote.

 

Now I've got those rather odd questions/statements out of the way, what is happening right now (and has been for the past two months) is that we have a brand new server which the company I work for has bought. The spec for this server is light years ahead of anything we've had previously, and I'll also be able to hand over the technical maintenance of the hardware to our sysadmin geek here, who knows a hell of a lot more about server management than I do. I've managed to negotiate a rate which I feel is good value for money (as a guide, for the same price with big-name hosting companies, we'd get about a quarter of the server power) and gives us space in what is probably the UK's most powerful data centre in central London, which should improve the data speeds we get. The rate we'll be paying is a fair bit more than we're currently paying, but the advertising revenue has increased sufficiently in the last six months for me to justify the extra spending.

 

I'm not 100% sure on the timescales for actually getting this server up and running, it's possible that it might be installed at the data centre by the end of the week, but we won't be migrating everything until next week at the earliest. I'll keep you posted.

 

If any of that sounds particularly scatty, then sorry, but to be honest I'm a bit fed up of the same old people whinging (and you know exactly who you are) when they don't seem willing or able to put forward any actual solutions themselves.

 

This seems to me to be a very fair and accurate summary of the legal position.

 

But not a remotely encouraging explanation of the technological issues.

 

Yes, I appreciate that you have the legal right to convert this webspace to a Pompey site overnight, but I'd still think you were a total w@nker if you did.

 

Having 500 people or so hitting F5 should not crash the site. It doesn't require much bandwith to deal with that.

 

I think charging people £5 was a terrible mistake. It's a nominal sum. And I'd probably still pay it even if I could only access the site on Thursdays.

 

You should have charged £20 or £50 if you really needed the cash to get this sorted.

 

Or alternatively, nothing at all.

 

A nominal cash fee gives people the right to complain but maybe not the resources to solve the problem.

 

If you need £200 or £500 or £2,000 to solve the problem, please just say so and we can see if we can raise it.

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You don't pay a fiver just for a matchday but for a service 365 days a year.

 

Every time we have a thread like this we get your kind on here! "Why are you moaning? It doesn't cost much" etc etc :facepalm: And every time you completely miss the points made in the thread.

 

Despite you being correct about having access to this forum 365 days a year, the whole point that the charge was introduced was to improve the service on a match day.

Edited by niceandfriendly
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Every time we have a thread like this we get your kind on here! "Why are you moaning? It doesn't cost much" etc etc :facepalm: And every time you completely miss the points made in the thread.

.

 

^This

 

It's not about the money per se, although charging for a service, whether it be £5 or £500, understandably raises the bar of expectation.

 

All those people who can't get to a game are asking for, after c.2.5 years of trying, is a football club forum that works on days when said football club are playing that game they call football.

 

Yes, granted, it's a quaint and old fashioned view that something should work well all the time, but that is the radical notion that people are asking for. Simple as that.

 

Now, where did I put my pipe and slippers...?

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Why the reluctance to look up yourself, it's not difficult plus Steve gave you a link to click on to make it easier for you.

 

It just seems strange that - in the spirit of openness - rather than publishing the accounts, we get the go and download them yourself (each time at a cost). Especially as Steve / Baj will already have these in their possession.

 

I asked originally because I was intrigued as to how much was being spent on the infrastructure, vs. the subscriptions and advertising. We were suffering a lot of outages at the time and I wondered why this site was charging when others were able to operate without a subscription.

 

Look, I am sure running this site takes a fair bit of time so personally wouldn't begrudge some reward for the owners - but that only really applies if the service meets expectation. Anyway,

I hope that the measures decribed by Steve and Baj do make things better - but excuse me if I wait and see (boys, wolves and sheep etc.).

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Despite you being correct about having access to this forum 365 days a year, the whole point that the charge was introduced was to improve the service on a match day.

 

Was it? My memory is that the charge was simply introduced when the site was started, to help cover running costs. I don't remember any promises that it would be used for anything specific when it was introduced.

 

Honestly if I was Steve or Baj I would've just said **** it and walked away some time ago. They seem to get a total lack of appreciation for the work they put in here. I could understand the animosity if they were taking a wage, but they aren't.

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