Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 But hang on.... according to dune the majority of people in the UK are Conservative in their views so the dictatorial policies introduced by a non-left wing Labour government are the fault of a Conservative electorate who voted in a non-left wing party? I'm confused. It was a left of centre government that changed the way politics is done. Lovely people like Mandelson, Balls and Campbell changed the face of politics for the worse. So musch so that Cameron felt the need to employ the delightful Coulson to compete.
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 How vulgarly patronising. You fail to understand that for a society to flourish it needs to generate wealth. Only then can everybody's standard of living rise. And you my dear chap fail to understand that common decency, manners, kindness and responsibility are nothing to do with wealth or standards of living. When that penny finally drops then it will balance the other chip out.
Sheaf Saint Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 It was a left of centre government that changed the way politics is done. Lovely people like Mandelson, Balls and Campbell changed the face of politics for the worse. So musch so that Cameron felt the need to employ the delightful Coulson to compete. Left of centre is still centre. None of this proves your point about ALL left-wing governments being dictatorial and controlling. Let me ask you this... What has improved since the colaition came to power? what policy changes have they made which have given us more liberty and freedom?
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 It was a left of centre government that changed the way politics is done. Lovely people like Mandelson, Balls and Campbell changed the face of politics for the worse. So musch so that Cameron felt the need to employ the delightful Coulson to compete. This does appear to all be very confusing for you. Perhaps you should google Sacchi & Sacchi and then re-evaluate your post.
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 And you my dear chap fail to understand that common decency, manners, kindness and responsibility are nothing to do with wealth or standards of living. When that penny finally drops then it will balance the other chip out. and how do we pay for this?
Sheaf Saint Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 and how do we pay for this? Common decency, manners, kindness and responsibility cost nothing.
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 and how do we pay for this? I'm sorry. Are you saying that these attributes have to be bought and paid for?
solentstars Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Ah, but where is the "middle" ground? It has moved somewhat to the right, with Labour only being able to get elected with a right facing party. In fact they were so determined to move to the right, they rebranded themselves and abadonded principles they had held for many years. England is mainly a right wing country, with only the Jocks and Taffs keeping the Torys out. The reason the NOTW, Mail and Sun (which seem to be the 3 papers that get up lefties noses) sell so many copies is their politics is to the right and that is where the majority sit. Even when The Sun was supporting New Labour, their slant on Europe, and other major issues was always to the right. No I think we are a consertive country We like looking backwards and hate change of any sort and I se you are still on about lefties are they a football team or Are you a righte whatever that is LOL Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 This does appear to all be very confusing for you. Perhaps you should google Sacchi & Sacchi and then re-evaluate your post. They are an advertising agency and did not change the very nature of internal politics. yes Satchi and Satchi were hands on in the Falklands war like Cambell was in Kossovo. They attended cabinet meetings etc etc. Again a rather ill thought out post.
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 I'm sorry. Are you saying that these attributes have to be bought and paid for? Are you Greek?
Sheaf Saint Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 That didn't answer the question. It's OK. He hasn't answered my question either. It's a bit like waiting for a sensible answer from dune.
the stain Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 It's OK. He hasn't answered my question either. It's a bit like waiting for a sensible answer from dune. dune answered the question earlier:
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 They are an advertising agency and did not change the very nature of internal politics. yes Satchi and Satchi were hands on in the Falklands war like Cambell was in Kossovo. They attended cabinet meetings etc etc. Again a rather ill thought out post. Serg', you always strike me as a decent sort of chap but please, you're out of your depth and, embarrassingly, it shows.
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Left of centre is still centre. None of this proves your point about ALL left-wing governments being dictatorial and controlling. Let me ask you this... What has improved since the colaition came to power? what policy changes have they made which have given us more liberty and freedom? Hopefully they will address some of these issues but I am not holding my breath.
dune Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 No I think we are a consertive country We like looking backwards and hate change of any sort and I se you are still on about lefties are they a football team or Are you a righte whatever that is LOL Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk Unlike the Liberal Elite i'm glad that no right wingers lower themselves to comment on SS's spelling or grammar.
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Are you Greek? The Greeks have to pay for kindness, good manners, decency and responsibility? The IMF certainly do drive a hard bargain.
the stain Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Unlike the Liberal Elite i'm glad that no right wingers lower themselves to comment on SS's spelling or grammar. You just did.
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Hopefully they will address some of these issues but I am not holding my breath. So they are as bad, if not worse than those loony lefties because they have the power to roll back the evil nature of the laws and have chosen not to. My god, they must be lefties!
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Serg', you always strike me as a decent sort of chap but please, you're out of your depth and, embarrassingly, it shows. Sorry VFTT but you do not seem to have addressed the comparison between Satchi and Satchi and spin Doctors. Simply opted for a rather condescending 'you are out of my depth' line. So can you see the difference between the role of an advertsing agency and a spin doctor?
bridge too far Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Unlike the Liberal Elite i'm glad that no right wingers lower themselves to comment on SS's spelling or grammar. Dune - the grown ups are debating. No room for you here ATM sunshine
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Unlike the Liberal Elite i'm glad that no right wingers lower themselves to comment on SS's spelling or grammar. I thought we established earlier that you've a paid up member. In fact, you're more liberal than me!
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 The Greeks have to pay for kindness, good manners, decency and responsibility? The IMF certainly do drive a hard bargain. Responsibility is an expensive commodity that has to be paid for.
the stain Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Unlike the Liberal Elite i'm glad that no right wingers lower themselves to comment on SS's spelling or grammar. dune might have some armbands or a float that he can borrow as he is a daredevil and spends most of his time out of his depth.
bridge too far Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Sorry VFTT but you do not seem to have addressed the comparison between Satchi and Satchi and spin Doctors. Simply opted for a rather condescending 'you are out of my depth' line. So can you see the difference between the role of an advertsing agency and a spin doctor? One of my friends is a film editor. He did a lot of work for Saatchi and Saatchi during Thatcher's tenure. They were spin doctors masquerading as an advertising agency.
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Sorry VFTT but you do not seem to have addressed the comparison between Satchi and Satchi and spin Doctors. Simply opted for a rather condescending 'you are out of my depth' line. So can you see the difference between the role of an advertsing agency and a spin doctor? So what do you think that Sacchi and Sacchi, along with Bernard Ingham were doing if not spinning? You don't think they all sat down together and worked out how to spin the press and got into bed with Murdock? That it just happened? That they didn't use focus groups and worked on "the message"? It didn't all begin in 1997.
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Responsibility is an expensive commodity that has to be paid for. Oh dear.
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 So they are as bad, if not worse than those loony lefties because they have the power to roll back the evil nature of the laws and have chosen not to. My god, they must be lefties! It will take time to dismantle some of the civil liberty attrocities carried out by Labour but I doubt it. The police enjoy their new powers as do the councils.
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 It will take time to dismantle some of the civil liberty attrocities carried out by Labour but I doubt it. The police enjoy their new powers as do the councils. But Dave said he'd do it and he hasn't. Clearly a Liberal Elite conspiracy to oppress us all.
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 So what do you think that Sacchi and Sacchi, along with Bernard Ingham were doing if not spinning? You don't think they all sat down together and worked out how to spin the press and got into bed with Murdock? That it just happened? That they didn't use focus groups and worked on "the message"? It didn't all begin in 1997. Satchi and Satchi sat in cabinet meetings and were part of the inner circle were they. Do you think they were for hire or did Labour ver recruit them?
Sheaf Saint Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Hopefully they will address some of these issues but I am not holding my breath. So you admit that the right are just as guilty as the left when it comes to restricitng liberty?
dune Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Dune - the grown ups are debating. No room for you here ATM sunshine This is serious stuff.
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 But Dave said he'd do it and he hasn't. Clearly a Liberal Elite conspiracy to oppress us all. Its been barely a year. Do you understand the legislative process and how long it takes?
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 One of my friends is a film editor. He did a lot of work for Saatchi and Saatchi during Thatcher's tenure. They were spin doctors masquerading as an advertising agency. BTF I am sure that you would not compare the role of Satchi and Saatchi in the eighties and the role of the spin Doctors under Blair and Brown. It was very very unhealthy for politics.
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Satchi and Satchi sat in cabinet meetings and were part of the inner circle were they. Do you think they were for hire or did Labour ver recruit them? Ingham sat in cabinet, Thatchers version of Campbell. Satchi was part of "machine" and reported directly to Ingham and in turn, Thatcher. Ingham was as much a sh*t as Campbell. Blair learnt from Thatcher and kissed Murdochs @rse and employed the exact same tactics that the tories had used and it won him three elections.
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Oh dear. Responsibility is looking after your old, your health and your vulnerable and yes that is very very expensive.
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Its been barely a year. Do you understand the legislative process and how long it takes? Yes. Did you know they sorted the bail law in 5 days? Repeal of legislation can be done very quickly.
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Responsibility is looking after your old, your health and your vulnerable and yes that is very very expensive. But you were talking about individual responsibility and that costs nothing.
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 BTF I am sure that you would not compare the role of Satchi and Saatchi in the eighties and the role of the spin Doctors under Blair and Brown. It was very very unhealthy for politics. So Bernard Ingham, press secretary to the PM, wasn't a spin doctor?
revolution saint Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 I can't be bothered to trawl through the entire thread but what has the perennial Left vs Right argument got to do with NOTW closing? I thought it was because NOTW did some illegal and morally corrupt things, became a toxic brand and were closed? I can't see how Left or Right ideology has any bearing on this.
Sheaf Saint Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 I can't be bothered to trawl through the entire thread but what has the perennial Left vs Right argument got to do with NOTW closing? I thought it was because NOTW did some illegal and morally corrupt things, became a toxic brand and were closed? I can't see how Left or Right ideology has any bearing on this.
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 I can't be bothered to trawl through the entire thread but what has the perennial Left vs Right argument got to do with NOTW closing? I thought it was because NOTW did some illegal and morally corrupt things, became a toxic brand and were closed? I can't see how Left or Right ideology has any bearing on this. The right are upset about the timely death of one of their raa raa rags.
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Ingham sat in cabinet, Thatchers version of Campbell. Satchi was part of "machine" and reported directly to Ingham and in turn, Thatcher. Ingham was as much a sh*t as Campbell. Blair learnt from Thatcher and kissed Murdochs @rse and employed the exact same tactics that the tories had used and it won him three elections. To compare Ingham with Campbell is very naive. Politics was very different then. Did Ingham get Parkinson to leave his wife as he did with an honourable man like Robin Cook or sex up documents from a students project to go to war? If you cannot recognise the damage done by this new type of politics introduced by Blair then I am frankly surprised?
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 Yes. Did you know they sorted the bail law in 5 days? Repeal of legislation can be done very quickly. It is whether there is a willingness to change it. I hope David Davis gets his way.
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 I can't be bothered to trawl through the entire thread but what has the perennial Left vs Right argument got to do with NOTW closing? I thought it was because NOTW did some illegal and morally corrupt things, became a toxic brand and were closed? I can't see how Left or Right ideology has any bearing on this. I think you are probably spot on.
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 But you were talking about individual responsibility and that costs nothing. No I was talking about responsibility as a society.
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 The right are upset about the timely death of one of their raa raa rags. Yes a paper that backed Labour for 13 years.
dune Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 The right are upset about the timely death of one of their raa raa rags. There will be a replacement and it will be the most sold sunday paper. Nothing will change, and they'll remember Millibeans comments.
um pahars Posted 10 July, 2011 Posted 10 July, 2011 To compare Ingham with Campbell is very naive. Politics was very different then. Did Ingham get Parkinson to leave his wife as he did with an honourable man like Robin Cook or sex up documents from a students project to go to war? If you cannot recognise the damage done by this new type of politics introduced by Blair then I am frankly surprised? Without sounding too rude, reading this thread has indeed shown you to be somewhat out of your depth and your notion that "Spin Doctors" started with Blair is just one example of this. I presume you had never heard of Tim Bell. As for Ingham, he is on record about his 11 years as Thatcher's spin doctor (do you remember his briefings against Howe, Pym and Biffen???) and every morning lobby journalists would rock up at Downing St to be briefed and then briefed again later in the day at Westminster.
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