Verbal Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 And your response is to post a piece of Tory Party propaganda?! If you dare to step into the 21st century, I think you'll find that authoritarian capitalism is the norm. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/14/opinion/14iht-edgat.1.6137311.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 I always bought the NOTW during footie season because no other Sunday comes close to it's coverage. But I will be glad to see the back of it after this disgusting phone hacking thing. It's been great watching the power of the media working against them for a change, love the fact that some of those c*nts will be on the dole. I just hope the British public are not mug enough to buy into the rebranded version, I'm not holding out much hope though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 How very strange. Are you suggesting that if you are left wing you should live in poverty? No but I do not think it is compatible with alot of what she writes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 And your response is to post a piece of Tory Party propaganda?! It's a great video though. It makes you proud to be British. The Conservative party were instrumental in Britain ruling the greatest empire the world has ever seen. Of course we also have the French to thank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 No but I do not think it is compatible with alot of what she writes. You'd struggle to find a bigger hypocrite than Diane Abbott. [video=youtube;-5uMbMJ2EUQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5uMbMJ2EUQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 You'd struggle to find a bigger hypocrite than Diane Abbott. [video=youtube;-5uMbMJ2EUQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5uMbMJ2EUQ No shes not her son made her send him to private school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 It's a great video though. It makes you proud to be British. The Conservative party were instrumental in Britain ruling the greatest empire the world has ever seen. Of course we also have the French to thank. It is also ********. The funny thing is, you are so useless at defining what it is precisely you stand for that you inadvertently find yourself advocating exactly the ideas advanced by one of your worst enemies, John Stuart Mill, the architect of classical liberalism (and of social democracy). Mill also laid the groundwork for modern feminism. You'd fit right in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 It is also ********. The funny thing is, you are so useless at defining what it is precisely you stand for that you inadvertently find yourself advocating exactly the ideas advanced by one of your worst enemies, John Stuart Mill, the architect of classical liberalism (and of social democracy). Mill also laid the groundwork for modern feminism. You'd fit right in! "over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign". I like this fella John Stuart Mill. The left would struggle with that concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 "over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign". I like this fella John Stuart Mill. The left would struggle with that concept. Yeah, really, really hard. I'm so struggling with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 (edited) "over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign". I like this fella John Stuart Mill. The left would struggle with that concept. Sergei, you poor misguided chap: individualism - the kind that does not impinge on others - has been a guiding principle of liberalism for the last century and a half. We live in an age where individualism is under the severest threat not from some socialist straw man, but from modern capitalism itself in its new dominant form - ie the kind of anti-individualist authoritarianism you find in China, Russia, the Tiger economies etc. Ask Ai Wei Wei whether he feels 'the individual is sovereign' in China. Edited 10 July, 2011 by Verbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 No shes not her son made her send him to private school. are you and dune a double act for the mad right now:)like a modern day laurel and hardy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 I don't think Serge understands individualism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 are you and dune a double act for the mad right now:)like a modern day laurel and hardy Please don't mock them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 The State is all powerful in the world of the left dictating what we eat, drink, think, say and read. Worst of all it judges us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 I don't think Serge understands individualism. I'm sure that he doesn't understand authoritarian capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 The State is all powerful in the world of the left dictating what we eat, drink, think, say and read. Worst of all it judges us all. Has your wife hidden the tin foil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 are you and dune a double act for the mad right now:)like a modern day laurel and hardy No I just disllike hypocrisy in politicians - do you? Can you kindly stop judging me. That is the worst trait of the left. The name calling always starts from the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 Has your wife hidden the tin foil? In fairness you could probably remove State and insert wife. The tin foil jibe has gone over my head I am afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 I'm sure that he doesn't understand authoritarian capitalism. Ahhh I see The Stain and VFTT are ganging up to play the intellectual superiority card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 The tin foil jibe has gone over my head I am afraid. Correct. In the shape of a Robin Hood hat is always best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 The State is all powerful in the world of the left dictating what we eat, drink, think, say and read. Worst of all it judges us all. Well yes, in a far-left communist dictatorship like North Korea, for example, you would be correct. But to assign those attributes to anybody who is considered to be on the left of the political spectrum is just plain wrong I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 Well yes, in a far-left communist dictatorship like North Korea, for example, you would be correct. But to assign those attributes to anybody who is considered to be on the left of the political spectrum is just plain wrong I'm afraid. No but there is a definate trend there. How have your civil liberties changed since 1997? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 The State is all powerful in the world of the left dictating what we eat, drink, think, say and read. Worst of all it judges us all. Only today, our blatantly left-wing government is telling us how many hours exercise our toddlers should be doing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 No but there is a definate trend there. How have your civil liberties changed since 1997? Check out how they've been changed in the USA, the right wing utopia and then look at ours and see if you can work out which is worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 Check out how they've been changed in the USA, the right wing utopia and then look at ours and see if you can work out which is worse. And start with the Bush-inspired Patriot Act - with one of the most Orwellian pieces of legislation ever to have found its way onto a statute book in the West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 Ahhh I see The Stain and VFTT are ganging up to play the intellectual superiority card. TBH, it's not much of a challenge at times. Your default position appears to be; left = bad & right = good. Most of us attempt to find a more thoughtful position which accepts both and good and bad elements in both left and right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 No I just disllike hypocrisy in politicians - do you? Can you kindly stop judging me. That is the worst trait of the left. The name calling always starts from the left. not judgeing you but what you preach also applies to the right and i,m ,amazed you think name calling is just a leftwing thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 TBH, it's not much of a challenge at times. Your default position appears to be; left = bad & right = good. Most of us attempt to find a more thoughtful position which accepts both and good and bad elements in both left and right. good post the majority of us are middle of the road voters unlike the far right and far left who live in ga ga land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 The tin foil jibe has gone over my head I am afraid. Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 good post the majority of us are middle of the road voters unlike the far right and far left who live in ga ga land. Ah, but where is the "middle" ground? It has moved somewhat to the right, with Labour only being able to get elected with a right facing party. In fact they were so determined to move to the right, they rebranded themselves and abadonded principles they had held for many years. England is mainly a right wing country, with only the Jocks and Taffs keeping the Torys out. The reason the NOTW, Mail and Sun (which seem to be the 3 papers that get up lefties noses) sell so many copies is their politics is to the right and that is where the majority sit. Even when The Sun was supporting New Labour, their slant on Europe, and other major issues was always to the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 Ah, but where is the "middle" ground? It has moved somewhat to the right, with Labour only being able to get elected with a right facing party. In fact they were so determined to move to the right, they rebranded themselves and abadonded principles they had held for many years. England is mainly a right wing country, with only the Jocks and Taffs keeping the Torys out. The reason the NOTW, Mail and Sun (which seem to be the 3 papers that get up lefties noses) sell so many copies is their politics is to the right and that is where the majority sit. Even when The Sun was supporting New Labour, their slant on Europe, and other major issues was always to the right. The 'middle ground' has always been contested between the intellectual/political descendants of John Stuart Mill and John Locke. The former's advocacy of equality of access and opportunity was at the heart of his idea of social justice, and was one of the founding stones of the NHS after the second world war (equal access to good health as a basic human right) and the comprehensive schools (equality of opportunity - supported and implemented by many Tories at the time, including Thatch.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 Ah, but where is the "middle" ground? It has moved somewhat to the right, with Labour only being able to get elected with a right facing party. In fact they were so determined to move to the right, they rebranded themselves and abadonded principles they had held for many years. England is mainly a right wing country, with only the Jocks and Taffs keeping the Torys out. The reason the NOTW, Mail and Sun (which seem to be the 3 papers that get up lefties noses) sell so many copies is their politics is to the right and that is where the majority sit. Even when The Sun was supporting New Labour, their slant on Europe, and other major issues was always to the right. No, I would argue that's because they write sensationalist, falsified stories about inane events and people. Face it, far more of the British public are interested in which footballer is f*cking which model than the current situation in East Africa for example - that's the kind of cr4p that papers like the Mail and the Red Tops peddle. I'll post an example of one of my favourite Express headlines: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 No but there is a definate trend there. How have your civil liberties changed since 1997? How have my civil liberties changed since 1997? well I guess the biggest change is the terrorism act where I could be arrested and detained for up to 42 days without charge. But that was brought in by the Blair government... how does that prove your point about the left? Blair was about as left as my right hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 No, I would argue that's because they write sensationalist, falsified stories about inane events and people. Face it, far more of the British public are interested in which footballer is f*cking which model than the current situation in East Africa for example - that's the kind of cr4p that papers like the Mail and the Red Tops peddle. I'll post an example of one of my favourite Express headlines: How old did you say you were? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 How old did you say you were? You're suggesting SuperMikey is a Romanian gypsy child? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 I can't argue with that so I'll just say something about SuperMikey's age. Maybe I'll post a YouTube video in a minute and hope that everyone has the same attention span as me when it comes to putting a video on to distract from what was happening before. I remember this happening when I was young and my mum would invite another strange man in the house, giving her money. I'd ask who it was and then she'd put a Transformers video on and then I'd forget about who the man was. Remember this every time I post a YouTube video: it's just a distraction technique and it stems from my childhood. I'm very poor at arguing too, dune. I often just attack the person rather than debate the point, just like you. We should form a debating club to help each other out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 I can't argue with that so I'll just say something about SuperMikey's age. Maybe I'll post a YouTube video in a minute and hope that everyone has the same attention span as me when it comes to putting a video on to distract from what was happening before. I remember this happening when I was young and my mum would invite another strange man in the house, giving her money. I'd ask who it was and then she'd put a Transformers video on and then I'd forget about who the man was. Remember this every time I post a YouTube video: it's just a distraction technique and it stems from my childhood. I'm very poor at arguing too, dune. I often just attack the person rather than debate the point, just like you. We should form a debating club to help each other out? However sad this may seem to people, that made my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 You should be ashamed of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 For all those who were buying a copy today to keep in pristine condition, well so were millions of other people. Therefore the newspaper will probably end up being worth less than the £1 you wasted on it. Also, if you want to read something that covers football below the Premiership then why not buy the Football League Paper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 Only today, our blatantly left-wing government is telling us how many hours exercise our toddlers should be doing! Totally wrong it is no business of theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 How have my civil liberties changed since 1997? well I guess the biggest change is the terrorism act where I could be arrested and detained for up to 42 days without charge. But that was brought in by the Blair government... how does that prove your point about the left? Blair was about as left as my right hand. Delve a bit deeper and look into what you can say, who you can employ, survelliance. It is pretty depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 Delve a bit deeper and look into what you can say, who you can employ, survelliance. It is pretty depressing. Yes I know all about the mass collection of personal data etc.. under the previous government. But I still don't see how that proves your point about the left, seeing as the previous government could in no way be described as left wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 Yes I know all about the mass collection of personal data etc.. under the previous government. But I still don't see how that proves your point about the left, seeing as the previous government could in no way be described as left wing. the lefties put them and kept them in power by en-large. even after tearing up Iraq he was still elected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 (edited) TBH, it's not much of a challenge at times. Your default position appears to be; left = bad & right = good. Most of us attempt to find a more thoughtful position which accepts both and good and bad elements in both left and right. A very lazy argument. My viewpoint has developed from my own experience not highbrow reading. They are generally based on the concept of respect, kindness, responsibility and that you can only achieve a better standard of living by creating wealth. Edited 10 July, 2011 by Sergei Gotsmanov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 Yes I know all about the mass collection of personal data etc.. under the previous government. But I still don't see how that proves your point about the left, seeing as the previous government could in no way be described as left wing. They were a left of centre Government. I am in the David Davis camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 A very lazy argument. My viewpoint has developed from my own experience not highbrow reading. They are generally based on the concept of respect, kindness, responsibility and that you can only achieve a better standard of living by creating wealth. How quaintly parochial. So now your saying only those who have a "better standard of living" can have respect, kindness and responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 the lefties put them and kept them in power by en-large. even after tearing up Iraq he was still elected Umm. No, the centre put and kept them in power. Worcester Woman I can recall as a moniker used at the time. That's why Cameron targeted them and that's always who decides who is in power. I'm also quite sure that in Blair was up against Cameron he'd still win an election. His popularity is still very high despite everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 the lefties put them and kept them in power by en-large. even after tearing up Iraq he was still elected But hang on.... according to dune the majority of people in the UK are Conservative in their views so the dictatorial policies introduced by a non-left wing Labour government are the fault of a Conservative electorate who voted in a non-left wing party? I'm confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 But hang on.... according to dune the majority of people in the UK are Conservative in their views so the dictatorial policies introduced by a non-left wing Labour government are the fault of a Conservative electorate who voted in a non-left wing party? I'm confused. oh right...if dune says so........ I think it was a disgrace that he was still the lefts champion in 2005.....(blair that is)..but we are where we are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 10 July, 2011 Share Posted 10 July, 2011 How quaintly parochial. So now your saying only those who have a "better standard of living" can have respect, kindness and responsibility. How vulgarly patronising. You fail to understand that for a society to flourish it needs to generate wealth. Only then can everybody's standard of living rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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