the stain Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 Over 5000 high tech radios gone missing (£184million) £752m of military equipment, which includes firearms "It is alarming that the department should be unaware of the location, usability or indeed the continued existence of assets to a total value of £6.3bn," (Commons Defence Committee) "The Ministry of Defence cannot account for more than £6 billion of taxpayer-funded spending and its accounts are so chaotic they cannot be signed off by auditors, a report by MPs warns today." Surely the answer here is to put a hold on all military spending until (a) a proper audit is conducted and the whereabouts of the missing items located (b) those items retrieved © a new monitoring system put into place. I don't like my taxes being wasted on pointless wars at the best of times, but when there is such a scant level of regard for the equipment and money being provided then I am even less pleased. Sources: From the Mail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2011336/Now-did-I-tank-MoD-blasted-losing-assets-worth-6BILLION.html?ito=feeds-newsxml From The Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8617234/Ministry-of-Defence-loses-5000-high-tech-radios-worth-184-million.html From The BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14018288 (I have tried to make my post look pretty, which different colours, use of bold and italics and underlining.)
Thedelldays Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 I have various radios.......all are shyt and unfit for service....apart from the VHF hand helds that is
Thedelldays Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 Can you please return them. no...most are consumables...hence no return, just throw away like the PRR radios I have...I return the units but the headsets are just throw away items.......a complete waste of money for me and my use
swannymere Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 Some people should be going to prison if the stuff can't be accounted for, the Armed Forces are treated like a free for all by alot of the staff.
the stain Posted 5 July, 2011 Author Posted 5 July, 2011 eer..no So you have stolen them then? You don't seem to see that as a problem. There is £6 billion of equipment missing - you have admitted that some of that is in your house. It matters not if the equipment is of no use, it should be returned so that the authorities know where it is. That will help us (a) decide what we need to be investing in - is it new and better equipment or is it a better monitoring system (b) it will let us know that this equipment hasn't fallen into the hands of the enemy. The enemy could be sneaking up on us as we speak, using our own radios to communicate with each other and our own guns to kill us. This is the institutionalised and engrained attitude that we need to get rid of from those in the armed services. I'm not having a go at you TDD, you are just one of the many members of the armed services who feel it is ok to steal from the government, when it is not. I guess having this equipment at home is seen as being one of the "perks" of the job. Imagine what could be done with that £6 billion.
Sheaf Saint Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 Is anybody actually the least bit surprised by this?
Thedelldays Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 So you have stolen them then? You don't seem to see that as a problem. There is £6 billion of equipment missing - you have admitted that some of that is in your house. It matters not if the equipment is of no use, it should be returned so that the authorities know where it is. That will help us (a) decide what we need to be investing in - is it new and better equipment or is it a better monitoring system (b) it will let us know that this equipment hasn't fallen into the hands of the enemy. The enemy could be sneaking up on us as we speak, using our own radios to communicate with each other and our own guns to kill us. This is the institutionalised and engrained attitude that we need to get rid of from those in the armed services. I'm not having a go at you TDD, you are just one of the many members of the armed services who feel it is ok to steal from the government, when it is not. I guess having this equipment at home is seen as being one of the "perks" of the job. Imagine what could be done with that £6 billion. what part of "consumable" dont you understand..? where have I said I have it at home..? are you thick..?
the stain Posted 5 July, 2011 Author Posted 5 July, 2011 what part of "consumable" dont you understand..? where have I said I have it at home..? are you thick..? Under questioning, I see that your military training kicks in.
lumuah Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 As with all things, the headlines distort the truth. Most of this stuff isn't missing at all, it is just someone has cocked up on the paperwork. If you've ever worked with army stores, you can easily understand how this can happen. The system they use is so convoluted that it is easy for a person of limited intellect to make a mistake.
Bath Saint Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 TDD is clearly merely a pawn in all this. It is clearly the job of the quartermasters to account for the stuff, and if there is lack of accountability and poor data and record keeping, then the quartermasters asre in a position to run thriving black market operations. No doubt the Bowman radios are the tip of the iceberg. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Taliban flying around in a Typhoon that they got at a knockdown price, 'off the back of a lorry'.
Thedelldays Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 Under questioning, I see that your military training kicks in. excellent response you only have to look on ebay at some of the items on there for sale....although in recent years, a huge drive has been going on trying to stop this...
the stain Posted 5 July, 2011 Author Posted 5 July, 2011 Exactly, so who is putting them up on ebay? Soldiers, sailors, airforce people (whatever they're called) - people like you TDD, so there's no need to get all uppity. Like I said, I'm not having a go at you, what you do in terms of stealing stuff is "normal" for the armed services. We need to make it so that is not the norm.
Thedelldays Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 Exactly, so who is putting them up on ebay? Soldiers, sailors, airforce people (whatever they're called) - people like you TDD, so there's no need to get all uppity. Like I said, I'm not having a go at you, what you do in terms of stealing stuff is "normal" for the armed services. We need to make it so that is not the norm. actually....civillian staff are the biggest culprits...
trousers Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 Hmmmm.... Perhaps they are in a Deppo....sorry....depot somewhere....? ;-)
Verbal Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 Perhaps they are in a Deppo....sorry....depot somewhere....? ;-) Or a submarine.
the stain Posted 5 July, 2011 Author Posted 5 July, 2011 Are civilians who are part of the army/armed forces, not classified as being part of the army/armed forces?
cryoman1965 Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 Squaddies steal ANY things of military use, Anything that is not tied down will get stolen. It may turn out to be no use, but it will get lifted. FACT
Doctoroncall Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 Are civilians who are part of the army/armed forces, not classified as being part of the army/armed forces? Yes, contractors. My brother used to service the police radios but was not in the police force. I expect it's the same thing (and no he didn't steal them). How far back does the list of missing items go?
Pancake Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 I would check the car boot sales round Alder****e way.
The9 Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 I should think there's £6bn of stuff they put in the wrong column somewhere. I worked in a government office and they couldn't keep track of 2000 computers and peripherals on a single site, which were replaced 200 at a time on a rolling basis every 3 months. This despite having a database, labelling everything on arrival and 4 full time staff who were meant to be tracking everything, I'm not remotely surprised that the MoD can't keep track of a ton of stuff which actually moves, could be anywhere in the world, and often breaks.
Micky Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 Can't really blame the 'blanket stackers' for this one - while 6 billion quid does sound like a lot of gear to errrr 'loose' - I think you'll find that much of it is simply 'misplaced', 'deployed' or 'signed out'. You could audit the MOD/Armed Forces continually, but at the rate that equipment moves about, you'd be hard pressed to ever account for the whole sheebang...! As most squaddies will tell you, 'it's a big firm', add the Navy and Airforce - and thats a whole lotta stores that you have to account for, 6 bill is nothing.
the stain Posted 5 July, 2011 Author Posted 5 July, 2011 Can't really blame the 'blanket stackers' for this one - while 6 billion quid does sound like a lot of gear to errrr 'loose' - I think you'll find that much of it is simply 'misplaced', 'deployed' or 'signed out'. You could audit the MOD/Armed Forces continually, but at the rate that equipment moves about, you'd be hard pressed to ever account for the whole sheebang...! As most squaddies will tell you, 'it's a big firm', add the Navy and Airforce - and thats a whole lotta stores that you have to account for, 6 bill is nothing. Sorry, but that just sounds like excuse making. £6 bn is not "nothing", it is a massive something. When people's pensions are being cut in the public sector, education is having cuts on it, binmen are having their wages frozen/cut, £6bn is not "nothing". It is wasteful and shameful that this happens and if the pilfering of equipment is so universal, then people need to be sacked - soldiers, sailors, "civvies", managers, whoever is responsible
aintforever Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 To be fair it's probably easy to lose a lot of kit when being given the runaround by a bunch of Afgans all day.
View From The Top Posted 5 July, 2011 Posted 5 July, 2011 Squaddies steal ANY things of military use, Anything that is not tied down will get stolen. It may turn out to be no use, but it will get lifted. FACT Not just squaddies, all of HM Forces! The septics didn't call us "The Borrowers" because we were small and lived behind the skirting board!
Micky Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 Sorry, but that just sounds like excuse making. £6 bn is not "nothing", it is a massive something. When people's pensions are being cut in the public sector, education is having cuts on it, binmen are having their wages frozen/cut, £6bn is not "nothing". It is wasteful and shameful that this happens and if the pilfering of equipment is so universal, then people need to be sacked - soldiers, sailors, "civvies", managers, whoever is responsible Nobody nicked it mate - it's just not where they thought it was. OK, so there are a fair few radios errr 'unacounted for', but you have to temper that with the fact that BOWMAN (new radio system) has only recently been introduced, not only to the Army, but also the Navy and RAF. Therefore, there are currently literally thousands of radios being fitted to military platforms and installations all over the world, wouldn't surprise me at all if the auditors had problems tracking them all down. Mind you, your right, you could do quite a few pensions on 6bn I guess - do you think they will accept ex military kit as opposed to cash though, throw it all in cashconverters or ebay - could be the way forward.
Viking Warrior Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 Its not clear what items are actually missing. is it the soldiers clothing etc that gets destroyed once they are demobbed? is this part of the 6 billion. It cannot be used again unless virtually brand new, Some times it is back load sometimes it is destroyed aand sometimes it is used for casualty play oh and sometimes probably a lot the servicemen keeps it. I would be worried if some of the stuff accounted for was weapons and ammunitions. Mind you ammunition wouldnt be the first time this has gone missing and sold on the black market, a case in scotland saw three squadees jailed. I know another individual who stole ammnuition he has not gone to jail but the ammunition he took ended up with an individual being murdered, Allegedly. I say alledgedly as the an appeal on the convicted person is still to be heard Also following depoloyment to iraq, all I had to hand in at the end was things like my body armour the rest I was free to keep but chose not two, multiply that by ex 1000's and that a huge amount of money, no wnder you can buy stuff at a car boot sale or army surplus.
the stain Posted 6 July, 2011 Author Posted 6 July, 2011 The reports are indicating that "firearms" are part of the missing equipment.
Viking Warrior Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 OH dont forget the atlantic conveyor . It was dream come true for quarter masters, The amonu of kit they wrote of due to the sinking was incredible. No wonder it sunk , nothing to do with the argies purely down to too much kit on board
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 To be fair this happens all over the place. Japan for example. They're missing 29 aircraft and 5 Midgit submarines, last seen near Pearl Harbour, Hawaii.
the stain Posted 6 July, 2011 Author Posted 6 July, 2011 To be fair this happens all over the place. Japan for example. They're missing 29 aircraft and 5 Midgit submarines, last seen near Pearl Harbour, Hawaii. It may well happen in different countries, but I am only concerned about what happens here. This is British taxpayers money that is being stolen by employees of the Government. The fact that nothing has been done about this for years is akin to state sponsored corruption. In the olden days, soliders etc caught stealing would be shot. If these stolen weapons get into the hands of terrorists or enemy states and Britain suffers as a result, then I would argue that those responsible should be put on trial for treason.
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 It may well happen in different countries, but I am only concerned about what happens here. This is British taxpayers money that is being stolen by employees of the Government. The fact that nothing has been done about this for years is akin to state sponsored corruption. In the olden days, soliders etc caught stealing would be shot. If these stolen weapons get into the hands of terrorists or enemy states and Britain suffers as a result, then I would argue that those responsible should be put on trial for treason. Whoosh.
Pancake Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 What do you mean? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor "Japanese losses were light: 29 aircraft and five midget submarines lost, and 65 servicemen killed or wounded"
the stain Posted 6 July, 2011 Author Posted 6 July, 2011 But this is the lounge, not the muppet show.
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