Ambition - where's the evidence?

[CB Fry]

1. The squad is pretty good already, it needs very little doing to it to be competitive.

 

2. The team spirit is great and improvements need to be careful and done in moderation to keep that up.

 

3. The best deals are to be had later in the window when players decide they want out.

 

4. Work is being done on additions and has been for some time. We don't want to be shafted by greedy clubs and agents by going in too soon.

 

5. There are loads of Championship quality players out there, it's not the end of the world if we miss out on some of them.

 

6. AOC will only be sold on our terms if he puts his foot down and demands to leave. It's unlikely IMO.

 

7. The club keeps its dealings quiet. There has probably been a lot of interest that hasn't been leaked to the press.

 

 

Agree with pretty much all of this except the AOC bit. His departure this window is an inevitability as far as I am concerned. It hasn't happened yet for the same reasons you outline above as to why we haven't signed anyone either.

 

Everyone is playing the waiting game to get a better deal.

 

We'll sign a few decent players to improve the squad. The chances are though that a significant number may not actually arrive until the middle or end of August.

[NickG]

1. The squad is pretty good already, it needs very little doing to it to be competitive.

 

2. The team spirit is great and improvements need to be careful and done in moderation to keep that up.

 

3. The best deals are to be had later in the window when players decide they want out.

 

4. Work is being done on additions and has been for some time. We don't want to be shafted by greedy clubs and agents by going in too soon.

 

5. There are loads of Championship quality players out there, it's not the end of the world if we miss out on some of them.

 

6. AOC will only be sold on our terms if he puts his foot down and demands to leave. It's unlikely IMO.

 

7. The club keeps its dealings quiet. There has probably been a lot of interest that hasn't been leaked to the press.

 

all good points, won't appease the fantasy football kids crying out for someone they have heard of to be signed yesterday.

[NickG]

Massive overstatement. Questioning why the intention to make signings hasn't happened yet is not 'throwing toys out of pram', in fact to characterise measured comment as such is quite ludicrous.

 

What is being examined is why this has happened. On one hand there are people who trust the club explicitly and feel that if we have missed out on any targets it doesn't matter as either we don't need them or others are lined up for later in the summer. Others ask if we are losing out on signings such as Maynard, Sharp and Cork and if so, is there a reason that is under the club's control. To attack analysis from critical friends is to miss the point entirely.

 

what evidence is there that "the intention to make signings hasn't happened yet"? -Think we were quite clearly and openly told otherwise.

 

Have we lost out on Maynard and Cork?

[CB Fry]

Sorry, I meant significant proportion of the players we sign will arrive mid or end of August. I don't think we will sign a significant number of players. But I do think we will sign a handful of significant players - ie 3 really good ones rather than eight squad fillers.

 

Can't believe I can't even edit frigging posts without paying £5.

[sadoldgit]

It's quite amusing when some say what a great player someone is and as soon as they sign for someone else it's what a waste of money they are and how there is better available. Make up your minds!

 

Good point! I expected CMS to sign for a "bigger" club but hey ho. Brighton huh? Go figure. I am disappointed that we have not brought new blood in as I do believe we need 2 to 3 quality signings if we are to move up to the next level. Still, we do the same every year. Whilst other clubs bring in new players, we either sit back and wait or don't get involved. AS for ambition, well it would be nice to have some decent new players coming in now but we still have a few weeks left before the start of the new season.

[St Marco]

The thing is if Cork decided to move here and either Maynard or Sharp did people would still be *****ing. You would get the usual mongs rolling out the "how will they all play together" type threads.

 

I dunno if it is just me but i am actually pretty glad we didn't get Nugent or CMS. The fact we didn't isn't something to cry about.

 

We already have a good squad. A top 10 squad. Possibly the two best wingers in the league. One of the best strike forces which on their day can destroy most teams in the league. My only concern is the defence. jaidi will not be able to keep up with Championship level football as he did in league one. That in my opinion is the area we need to strengthen the most.

 

The other thing is we know this team can play. Bringing in too many players can unsettle a side. Teams like Leicester and West Ham have bought a lot of players and they will have to make them gel pretty quickly.

[Torres]

Marquee signings are for MLS and A-league teams. People who use this term are idiots.

 

Not necessarily. They could be American or Australian.

 

Oh, hang on....

 

Yes, they're idiots.

[NickG]

I wonder what the break down of signings across the window are?

 

Bet something like 75% in last week or so.

[NickG]

The thing is if Cork decided to move here and either Maynard or Sharp did people would still be *****ing. You would get the usual mongs rolling out the "how will they all play together" type threads.

 

I dunno if it is just me but i am actually pretty glad we didn't get Nugent or CMS. The fact we didn't isn't something to cry about.

 

We already have a good squad. A top 10 squad. Possibly the two best wingers in the league. One of the best strike forces which on their day can destroy most teams in the league. My only concern is the defence. jaidi will not be able to keep up with Championship level football as he did in league one. That in my opinion is the area we need to strengthen the most.

 

The other thing is we know this team can play. Bringing in too many players can unsettle a side. Teams like Leicester and West Ham have bought a lot of players and they will have to make them gel pretty quickly.

 

with Fonte as first choice, just agreed new contracts with 2 CBs can't see us signing another one unless we sell

[dubai_phil]

Let's look on a neutral bright side for a moment.....

 

 

At least we aren't Arsenal........

 

The way the rats are deserting Wengers ship at the moment they could be left with fewer players than Poopey last season. Bet Charlie W ain't a happy bunny

[St_Tel49]

Massive overstatement. Questioning why the intention to make signings hasn't happened yet is not 'throwing toys out of pram', in fact to characterise measured comment as such is quite ludicrous.

 

What is being examined is why this has happened. On one hand there are people who trust the club explicitly and feel that if we have missed out on any targets it doesn't matter as either we don't need them or others are lined up for later in the summer. Others ask if we are losing out on signings such as Maynard, Sharp and Cork and if so, is there a reason that is under the club's control. To attack analysis from critical friends is to miss the point entirely.

You may feel that your comments are measured but I feel that they are possibly intemperate but definitely premature. Just my opinion mind.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

As the prof insinuates, I think a lot of it boils down to those who trust their club to do the right thing and those that don't.

 

The argument of spending more money in the transfer market is as old as the hills. I remember we all thought Ted Bates way to cautious and then all being amazed at the arrival of Osgood (albeit under L Mac's tenure).

 

As long as NC is still serious with his 5 year plan then I guess we should trust him.

 

IS NA a good judge of a player? His track record would indicate so.

 

But both should perhaps get a bit of a move on now football has reassembled.

[alpine_saint]

Massive overstatement. Questioning why the intention to make signings hasn't happened yet is not 'throwing toys out of pram', in fact to characterise measured comment as such is quite ludicrous.

 

What is being examined is why this has happened. On one hand there are people who trust the club explicitly and feel that if we have missed out on any targets it doesn't matter as either we don't need them or others are lined up for later in the summer. Others ask if we are losing out on signings such as Maynard, Sharp and Cork and if so, is there a reason that is under the club's control. To attack analysis from critical friends is to miss the point entirely.

 

You waste your time with logical rationalising around here, Prof..

[adrian lord]

The owners have repeatedly said via Cortese that the ambition is to be in the Prem after 5 years - that's good enough for me and I trust them. What's more we are on target.

[egg]

The owners have repeatedly said via Cortese that the ambition is to be in the Prem after 5 years - that's good enough for me and I trust them. What's more we are on target.

 

 

 

Have they? Cortese has said bits and pieces but I've not read any quotes attributable to the family.

[Fowllyd]

You waste your time with logical rationalising around here, Prof..

 

Perhaps he should try some logical reasoning and see what happens. He hasn't done that so far on this thread, just produced a string of assumptions and hypotheses, presented as fact. Nor, for that matter, has he deigned to answer any number of valid points raised by various other posters on this thread.

[Saint Billy]

Nugent going to Leicester on a free

[Stattmeister]

Where's the evidence of a lack of investment?

[farawaysaint]

Where's the evidence of a lack of investment?

 

I do not agree with prof but using circular reasoning isn't going to convince him he's wrong

[Stattmeister]

I do not agree with prof but using circular reasoning isn't going to convince him he's wrong

 

Hehehe... I know, I know - I just re-read the OP and realised there is no evidence to support his arguement! I'm going back to transfer-rumours.co.uk to see if we've signed anyone I should of heard of yet. ;-)

[Professor]

Perhaps he should try some logical reasoning and see what happens. He hasn't done that so far on this thread, just produced a string of assumptions and hypotheses, presented as fact. Nor, for that matter, has he deigned to answer any number of valid points raised by various other posters on this thread.

So an opinion to agree with is a 'valid point' and an opposite opinion is an 'assumption'. Not much logic in that.

 

The point about ambition is that having it is one thing but it is the perception of a club's ambition as seen by others that may affect real decisions by real players as to which club they want to join. Cortese and Adkins have said what their ambitions are, and Adkins has said his ambition includes signing 2 or 3 quality players but as yet, there is no evidence available to the football community to show this. The club may or may not have bid up to £3m for one player but if so, the move did not happen so we have not been able to demonstrate ambition. Adkins is now saying (OS 1/7) that transfers in are more likely at the end of July or in August. He says that clubs buying earlier are those who are trying to build a whole team, although that comment doesn't seem to fit with our reported bid for Cork, made weeks ago.

 

Could it be that Cortese wants our first signing to boost the commercial sales by having the player presented on 20th July in the new strip (that's speculation, not an assumption). Or maybe, (speculation) we have a couple of overseas players lined up - especially for the key CMF role. If so, we can only judge that when it happens but already, despite Adkins saying how important this carefully constructed pre-season is this year, it seems that any new players will not be taking part in pre-season.

 

In the end none of this will matter if the team is good enough and some people think it is. But if they are wrong, and if the team is not good enough without two or three additions, we may drop points in August that earlier action could have prevented. If you, dear reader, do not share this view, it may be that you are a better judge, or that you are just being too complacent, but either way you are entitled to your view and I for one, would defend your right to express it. Just as you should defend mine to say 'I told you so' if things go pear shaped. But I sincerely hope they do not and that Adkins gets his way to strengthen.

Edited 6 July, 2011 by Professor

[Dig Dig]

So an opinion to agree with is a 'valid point' and an opposite opinion is an 'assumption'. Not much logic in that.

 

The point about ambition is that having it is one thing but it is the perception of a club's ambition as seen by others that may affect real decisions by real players as to which club they want to join. Cortese and Adkins have said what their ambitions are, and Adkins has said his ambition includes signing 2 or 3 quality players but as yet, there is no evidence available to the football community to show this. The club may or may not have bid up to £3m for one player but if so, the move did not happen so we have not been able to demonstrate ambition. Adkins is now saying (OS 1/7) that transfers in are more likely at the end of July or in August. He says that clubs buying earlier are those who are trying to build a whole team, although that comment doesn't seem to fit with our reported bid for Cork, made weeks ago.

 

Could it be that Cortese wants our first signing to boost the commercial sales by having the player presented on 20th July in the new strip (that's speculation, not an assumption). Or maybe, (speculation) we have a couple of overseas players lined up - especially for the key CMF role. If so, we can only judge that when it happens but already, despite Adkins saying how important this carefully constructed pre-season is this year, it seems that any new players will not be taking part in pre-season.

 

In the end none of this will matter if the team is good enough and some people think it is. But if they are wrong, and if the team is not good enough without two or three additions, we may drop points in August that earlier action could have prevented. If you, dear reader, do not share this view, it may be that you are a better judge, or that you are just being too complacent, but either way you are entitled to your view and I for one, would defend your right to express it. Just as you should defend mine to say 'I told you so' if things go pear shaped. But I sincerely hope they do not and that Adkins gets his way to strengthen.

 

We did have a bid accepted for 3M+. If the deal didn't go through for whatever reason, it's still known that we are active in the transfer market trying to bring in some quality players to improve the spine of an already strong squad for this level.

 

I've read all your posts on this thread so far and I'm struggling to see any rationale in your argument. Ambition isn't about throwing money about on over inflated fee's and wages. This is the sign of desperation, not ambition.

 

For the first time in years we have a solid, professional squad with a great team spirit. Yes we could do with a couple more quality players, I don't think anyone would dispute that but ultimately I think that keeping the squad intact plus adding hungry players who want to play for the club is more important than trying to make some kind of big statement of ambition. It's more subtle, but just might prove to be more effective.

 

NC and NA are no mugs. I for one trust their judgement.

[Puddings and Monkeys]

We did have a bid accepted for 3M+. If the deal didn't go through for whatever reason, it's still known that we are active in the transfer market trying to bring in some quality players to improve the spine of an already strong squad for this level.

 

I've read all your posts on this thread so far and I'm struggling to see any rationale in your argument. Ambition isn't about throwing money about on over inflated fee's and wages. This is the sign of desperation, not ambition.

 

For the first time in years we have a solid, professional squad with a great team spirit. Yes we could do with a couple more quality players, I don't think anyone would dispute that but ultimately I think that keeping the squad intact plus adding hungry players who want to play for the club is more important than trying to make some kind of big statement of ambition. It's more subtle, but just might prove to be more effective.

 

NC and NA are no mugs. I for one trust their judgement.

 

You'll be run out of town for posting sensible comments like that; be careful.

[Danish Saint]

I think people are being blinded at the moment with the apparant lack of transfers. NC has shown us time and time again, that he likes to do things the quiet, professional way. And no amount of silly season is going to change that.

 

We've re-signed Lambert, Martin, Connolly, Jaidi.... we've kept Lallana and Alex. We have a core of players intact, that played magnificent during the last half of the season. We're developing our training facilities, we've taken on the largest group of youngsters ever, and have two or three players ready to make the jump from Academy to the squad.

 

I believe we're in for maybe two players during the off-season and offloading Puncheon. The media has us linked to a variety of targets from Maynard, Sharp to John-Arne Riise. People here are having a moan about us not signing Nugent. I believe we're in for far better players than him.

[Fowllyd]

So an opinion to agree with is a 'valid point' and an opposite opinion is an 'assumption'. Not much logic in that.

 

You miss my point entirely. Your initial post, and several subsequent ones, have been based on assumptions - Sharp turned us down, Cork is doing likewise, we've been beaten to Mackail-Smith's signature, and others. You then roll all of these assumptions up into a contention that you present as fact - to wit, that we have problems attracting players - and ask whether this problem is down to Adkins or Cortese. At no point do you ask "Do we have a problem?" you just present a perceived problem as fact. Whether or not I agree with the opinion you've expressed is immaterial - my point is that you're basing your views on things you don't know (and which you therefore assume to be the case) and then present those views as facts.

 

You say that there is no evidence available to the football community to demonstrate any ambitions we have. Really? Have you been seeking out the views of this football community then? This, I'm afraid, is another assumption which you're presenting as a fact. And, as with the other ones, my agreement or otherwise makes not one iota of difference - it's an assumption, not a fact.

 

For what it's worth, I would say that we did indeed demonstrate ambition in seeking to sign both Billy Sharp and Jack Cork. We haven't signed either and it seems pretty certain that we won't be signing Sharp; however, we have put in bids which have been accepted by both players' current clubs. Lack of ambition would be characterised by not bidding on such players, and trying to make do with what we have, plus a couple of low cost/free transfers or loans here and there. I'm not sure what the football community thinks, though, as I haven't had a chance to ask them yet.

 

I would not for a moment seek to prevent you from posting whatever you like - why would I? You can say whatever you like, but you need to be prepared to defend your point of view better than you do. As an example, Dig Dig has posted a very good reply to your post above (hence my only quoting a small portion of it myself). Care to answer his points?

[Bucks Saint]

You miss my point entirely. Your initial post, and several subsequent ones, have been based on assumptions - Sharp turned us down, Cork is doing likewise, we've been beaten to Mackail-Smith's signature, and others. You then roll all of these assumptions up into a contention that you present as fact - to wit, that we have problems attracting players - and ask whether this problem is down to Adkins or Cortese. At no point do you ask "Do we have a problem?" you just present a perceived problem as fact. Whether or not I agree with the opinion you've expressed is immaterial - my point is that you're basing your views on things you don't know (and which you therefore assume to be the case) and then present those views as facts.

 

You say that there is no evidence available to the football community to demonstrate any ambitions we have. Really? Have you been seeking out the views of this football community then? This, I'm afraid, is another assumption which you're presenting as a fact. And, as with the other ones, my agreement or otherwise makes not one iota of difference - it's an assumption, not a fact.

 

For what it's worth, I would say that we did indeed demonstrate ambition in seeking to sign both Billy Sharp and Jack Cork. We haven't signed either and it seems pretty certain that we won't be signing Sharp; however, we have put in bids which have been accepted by both players' current clubs. Lack of ambition would be characterised by not bidding on such players, and trying to make do with what we have, plus a couple of low cost/free transfers or loans here and there. I'm not sure what the football community thinks, though, as I haven't had a chance to ask them yet.

 

I would not for a moment seek to prevent you from posting whatever you like - why would I? You can say whatever you like, but you need to be prepared to defend your point of view better than you do. As an example, Dig Dig has posted a very good reply to your post above (hence my only quoting a small portion of it myself). Care to answer his points?

 

Totally this

[skintsaint]

Paul Williams signing is a state of intent imo.

[Miltonaggro]

Paul Williams signing is a state of intent imo.

 

Agreed. Considering his waist measurement I think he may be our long anticipated marquee signing...

[John B]

I think people are being blinded at the moment with the apparant lack of transfers. NC has shown us time and time again, that he likes to do things the quiet, professional way. And no amount of silly season is going to change that.

 

We've re-signed Lambert, Martin, Connolly, Jaidi.... we've kept Lallana and Alex. We have a core of players intact, that played magnificent during the last half of the season. We're developing our training facilities, we've taken on the largest group of youngsters ever, and have two or three players ready to make the jump from Academy to the squad.

 

I believe we're in for maybe two players during the off-season and offloading Puncheon. The media has us linked to a variety of targets from Maynard, Sharp to John-Arne Riise. People here are having a moan about us not signing Nugent. I believe we're in for far better players than him.

 

It does seem to be a bit of shambles at the moment really not a lack of ambition as players appear not to want to come here.

 

But that may change and things could look better in a week or two as currently we may be bidding for players we just dont know.

 

Perhaps we should be discussing this thread if nothing happens with regard to transfers in a couple of months time not now.

[Gingeletiss]

Prof's original question..........................Ambition - where's the evidence?

 

An up and coming, young English manager signed on a long term contract.

 

Exsisting prem/championship players, signing new contracts.

 

New training facilities being built, to give us class 1 accademy status.

 

New intake of apprentice players, double that of previous years, and reportedly, of a better standard.

 

Plus, various other small changes, Head scout in Europe (maybe?), better programmes (we hope), new catering, new beer etc etc

[Danish Saint]

It does seem to be a bit of shambles at the moment really not a lack of ambition as players appear not to want to come here.

 

But that may change and things could look better in a week or two as currently we may be bidding for players we just dont know.

 

Perhaps we should be discussing this thread if nothing happens with regard to transfers in a couple of months time not now.

 

That's one way of looking at it

Another could be, that we are not ready to spend large amounts on wages on players, who are at the same level as our current squad or players looking for a final years worth of money. Neither Sharp, Mackail-Smith or Maynard are by far better than Barnard and Lambert. Riise is well above 30 and we're got good and younger players at left back.

 

In so far, I agree with you view, that if nothing has changed by mid-August, I too would get seriously worried. But here in the beginning of July....not so much...

[Matthew Le God]

Riise is well above 30

 

Not that it matters because he isn't coming here, but Riise is 30 years old - not "well above 30".

[View From The Top]

You miss my point entirely. Your initial post, and several subsequent ones, have been based on assumptions - Sharp turned us down, Cork is doing likewise, we've been beaten to Mackail-Smith's signature, and others. You then roll all of these assumptions up into a contention that you present as fact - to wit, that we have problems attracting players - and ask whether this problem is down to Adkins or Cortese. At no point do you ask "Do we have a problem?" you just present a perceived problem as fact. Whether or not I agree with the opinion you've expressed is immaterial - my point is that you're basing your views on things you don't know (and which you therefore assume to be the case) and then present those views as facts.

 

You say that there is no evidence available to the football community to demonstrate any ambitions we have. Really? Have you been seeking out the views of this football community then? This, I'm afraid, is another assumption which you're presenting as a fact. And, as with the other ones, my agreement or otherwise makes not one iota of difference - it's an assumption, not a fact.

 

For what it's worth, I would say that we did indeed demonstrate ambition in seeking to sign both Billy Sharp and Jack Cork. We haven't signed either and it seems pretty certain that we won't be signing Sharp; however, we have put in bids which have been accepted by both players' current clubs. Lack of ambition would be characterised by not bidding on such players, and trying to make do with what we have, plus a couple of low cost/free transfers or loans here and there. I'm not sure what the football community thinks, though, as I haven't had a chance to ask them yet.

 

I would not for a moment seek to prevent you from posting whatever you like - why would I? You can say whatever you like, but you need to be prepared to defend your point of view better than you do. As an example, Dig Dig has posted a very good reply to your post above (hence my only quoting a small portion of it myself). Care to answer his points?

 

Spot. On.

[grammy]

You miss my point entirely. Your initial post, and several subsequent ones, have been based on assumptions - Sharp turned us down, Cork is doing likewise, we've been beaten to Mackail-Smith's signature, and others. You then roll all of these assumptions up into a contention that you present as fact - to wit, that we have problems attracting players - and ask whether this problem is down to Adkins or Cortese. At no point do you ask "Do we have a problem?" you just present a perceived problem as fact. Whether or not I agree with the opinion you've expressed is immaterial - my point is that you're basing your views on things you don't know (and which you therefore assume to be the case) and then present those views as facts.

 

You say that there is no evidence available to the football community to demonstrate any ambitions we have. Really? Have you been seeking out the views of this football community then? This, I'm afraid, is another assumption which you're presenting as a fact. And, as with the other ones, my agreement or otherwise makes not one iota of difference - it's an assumption, not a fact.

 

For what it's worth, I would say that we did indeed demonstrate ambition in seeking to sign both Billy Sharp and Jack Cork. We haven't signed either and it seems pretty certain that we won't be signing Sharp; however, we have put in bids which have been accepted by both players' current clubs. Lack of ambition would be characterised by not bidding on such players, and trying to make do with what we have, plus a couple of low cost/free transfers or loans here and there. I'm not sure what the football community thinks, though, as I haven't had a chance to ask them yet.

 

I would not for a moment seek to prevent you from posting whatever you like - why would I? You can say whatever you like, but you need to be prepared to defend your point of view better than you do. As an example, Dig Dig has posted a very good reply to your post above (hence my only quoting a small portion of it myself). Care to answer his points?

 

Absolutely spot on imo. Clubs seem to be looking for ridiculous fees for relatively average players. £2.5m for CMS!! a very good 3rd div striker! Maybe we are looking abroad to strengthen. Cortese seems to have a few good contacts and already got us Papa and Guly. Maybe we are still waiting on the outcome of any AOC move to determine budget and priorities. A lot of maybe's but everything that Cortese has done since coming to the club does not show any hint of lack of ambition. Far too early to be panicking.

[Legod Third Coming]

I want us to make an offer to Becks. Get him back to the UK, sell 10,000 more season tickets. And he could really do a job for us on and off the pitch.

[Turkish]

I want us to make an offer to Becks. Get him back to the UK, sell 10,000 more season tickets. And he could really do a job for us on and off the pitch.

 

Too old and a has been journeyman, we could do better.

[Legod Third Coming]

Too old and a has been journeyman, we could do better.

 

Really?? You think there is better corner, crossing and free kick delivery in the Championship? And another player who could add 10k to the gate and get the international media crawling all over us like a rash... do tell!

[Professor]

It is flattering that Mr Fowllyd should have taken the trouble to read my posts but disapointing that he failed to grasp the qualifications built in, as the posts make no assumptions but do set out to explain how others may perceive our club as one where it appears there is no activity, compared to all that is going on elsewhere. The answer to that from some people, that maybe there is some activity going on that we rightly do not know about, will not affect perception. Unfortunately some of the other responses have been to rubbish the suggestion without presenting evidence.

 

But we do have a good attempt to show some evidence of ambition from Gingletiss.

Prof's original question..........................Ambition - where's the evidence?

An up and coming, young English manager signed on a long term contract.

Exsisting prem/championship players, signing new contracts.

New training facilities being built, to give us class 1 accademy status.

New intake of apprentice players, double that of previous years, and reportedly, of a better standard.

Plus, various other small changes, Head scout in Europe (maybe?), better programmes (we hope), new catering, new beer etc etc

These are fair comments. The only doubt may be the extent to which some of this is noticed elsewhere or how it compares with what some of our rivals have been doing. If its true that P*mpy are in for ex-Prem player Puncheon, that could just about cap the lot as far as showing ambition is concerned.

[70's Mike]

Prof's original question..........................Ambition - where's the evidence?

 

An up and coming, young English manager signed on a long term contract.

 

Exsisting prem/championship players, signing new contracts.

 

New training facilities being built, to give us class 1 accademy status.

 

New intake of apprentice players, double that of previous years, and reportedly, of a better standard.

 

Plus, various other small changes, Head scout in Europe (maybe?), better programmes (we hope), new catering, new beer etc etc

 

think i have heard that type of reply before?

 

i just want the first 11 improved

[shurlock]

It is flattering that Mr Fowllyd should have taken the trouble to read my posts but disapointing that he failed to grasp the qualifications built in, as the posts make no assumptions but do set out to explain how others may perceive our club as one where it appears there is no activity, compared to all that is going on elsewhere.

 

I assume you didn't bother reading any of the points i raised in an ealier post (163) - responding to each of your points (in bold).

[LostBoys]

I am only disappopinted in Pilkington - I do not think the other 'losses' are that crucial to us - time will tell

[CB Fry]

I want us to make an offer to Becks. Get him back to the UK, sell 10,000 more season tickets. And he could really do a job for us on and off the pitch.

 

Really?? You think there is better corner, crossing and free kick delivery in the Championship? And another player who could add 10k to the gate and get the international media crawling all over us like a rash... do tell!

 

We're not going to sign David Beckham so do save yourself the bother of getting all huffed up at people that wouldn't even want him here.

 

We are not going to sign David Beckham. Save your energy

[NickG]

We're not going to sign David Beckham so do save yourself the bother of getting all huffed up at people that wouldn't even want him here.

 

We are not going to sign David Beckham. Save your energy

 

exactly, no ambition and manager who can't attract players

 

trouble is this is how some on heree are really thinking!

[Fowllyd]

It is flattering that Mr Fowllyd should have taken the trouble to read my posts but disapointing that he failed to grasp the qualifications built in, as the posts make no assumptions but do set out to explain how others may perceive our club as one where it appears there is no activity, compared to all that is going on elsewhere. The answer to that from some people, that maybe there is some activity going on that we rightly do not know about, will not affect perception. Unfortunately some of the other responses have been to rubbish the suggestion without presenting evidence.

 

But we do have a good attempt to show some evidence of ambition from Gingletiss.

 

These are fair comments. The only doubt may be the extent to which some of this is noticed elsewhere or how it compares with what some of our rivals have been doing. If its true that P*mpy are in for ex-Prem player Puncheon, that could just about cap the lot as far as showing ambition is concerned.

 

Well, you've certainly shown that you can do patronising pomposity, if nothing else. Well done you. And I'm sure that Gingeletiss (or should that be Mr Gingeletiss?) will be most delighted that you approve of his contribution. Well done again.

 

Pity about the rest of it, though. Assumptions or otherwise? Let's have a look at a few:

 

If dedicated fans start to question the club's ambition you can be certain beyond doubt that any potential transfer target will do the same.

 

Yes, I did indeed fail to grasp the qualification built into that statement. In fact, simpleton that I am, I still do. Can you point it out to me please?

 

The evidence as of today, of a lack of ambition, is no improvement on the squad, no added quality and the club turned down by one or more players for whom bids were reportedly made. These are the sort of things that a prospective player will consider unless the money on offer is so much better than can be got elsewhere.

 

Hmm, "the club turned down by one or more players". Really? Did Billy Sharp turn us down, did we turn him down, or did both parties decide that the move wouldn't work? We don't know, but you've stated that the first is the case. Looks suspiciously like an assumption to me.

 

And "These are the sort of things that a prospective player will consider unless the money on offer is so much better...". Another statement of fact, it seems - but fact which you can't possibly corroborate. I'm not saying it isn't true; it may be for all I know. But for all you know it could just as easily not be. So can we call that an assumption, presented as fact?

 

Its true that Adkins has virtually no recent track record in the transfer market and that unlike Poyet, Alladyce, MaClaren, Sven or Pardew, he's not an established name, either as a manager at high level, or as a player. That may be one of the factors that players consider when deciding if a particular club is where they want to be, or it may be that his management style is not good in meetings with players. On the other hand, he might be great with people and likeable but the decisions on transfers and pay might not be his to make. Adkins might be putting up targets that are not acceptable to the Chairtman. So is the question mark over Adkins, or is it over Cortese

 

Again, this post is all supposition and speculation - qualified, admittedly - until the end, when all of a sudden it becomes a definite "question mark" - with no qualification. Your approach here is rather akin to saying 'Something may or may not have happened, I don't know for certain whether it did or not - but I demand to know why it happened!'

 

On the subject of Puncheon, this has nothing to do with ambition. The club doesn't want him, he doesn't want to be here. And that's all there is to it. A club signing him won't be showing ambition so much as taking a big gamble. The clubs he was loaned to may be interested in him, but they're hardly tearing our door down.

[egg]

The clubs he was loaned to may be interested in him, but they're hardly tearing our door down.

 

That looks like an assumption to me!

[Fowllyd]

That looks like an assumption to me!

 

Yeah, I'll give you that one!

[Legod Third Coming]

We're not going to sign David Beckham so do save yourself the bother of getting all huffed up at people that wouldn't even want him here.

 

We are not going to sign David Beckham. Save your energy

 

You are probably right, although at least we both agree he could easily deliver promotion... Carlos Tevez (cough)...

[hutch]

Well, you've certainly shown that you can do patronising pomposity,

I had a professor like that once

[hughieslastminutegoal]

I'd say we have at least a comfortable mid-table side without making any signings - though the 1st of July was never a breakpoint for signings (and nor is the 5th), and if we have new signings by the start of the season then great.

 

You're absolutely right to question the evidence of ambition if we don't have any, as I can't see us challenging the top 2 without any, and I think we're going to be at best Play-Off contenders without any newcomers. But there's a long way to go yet - and I'd rather we signed good players who have options to go elsewhere than just players who are at the current standard.

 

Adkins has already said he's expecting most business at the end of July / August - and the Prem loans which would also bolster the side won't be until September.

 

I wouldn't worry about the close season looking like last year either, we did get promoted !

 

Is there any such thing as comfortable mid-table? If you are mid-table you are not many points off relegation zone. A couple of injuries, a minor dip in form at the wrong time can suddenly change a side's psychology, fear creeps in, results deteriorate. If you go into a season with don't worry we're a comfortable mid-table side, don't be surprised if that bites you on the arse. Saying a side is a play-off contender really is not saying a lot. 7th - 12th (or so) would make us a contender for play-offs in the final quarter of the season, but similarly below 10th you could anticipate the possibility of getting dragged into a relegation scrap.

 

The last thing the club want to do is delude themselves that promotion from L1 is proof that life will be comfortable in Div1 without too much bother.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Well, Professor, you obviously haven't studied the scientific method or considered the philosophy of the likes of Bertrand Russell. If you had you would have considered the evidence more closely before making yourself look an a*se.

 

At the moment, there is no concrete evidence either way and it's a month before the new season starts. So, as there is no proof, you should remain agnostic until events show otherwise. NA and NC do not appear to be people lacking ambition BTW.

 

This thread is much like the famous radio debate between Russell and the Archbishop of Canterbury.

 

Summarising:

Russell - there's no evidence for God

Archbishop - I believe there is

Russell - It's a question of evidence

Archbishop - It's a question of belief

Russell - I can't believe without evidence

Archbishop - I believe one can

 

A forum like this is always split between 'believers' who trust that God (the manager/chairman) will ultimately deliver but require no up-front proof and the 'sceptics' who always try to use current evidence to predict the future who may or may not be proved "right".

 

In a results driven business I'd prefer to be guided by authority from the latter camp who can instill a bit of the former.

I think Adkins is one of those, but I've yet to work out whether NC just wants to bump up the congegation to help negotiate a better price for the church freehold.