New depths?

[OldNick]

Dubai Phil does live in a funny old world.

I dont see what all the fuss is about re Phils post.

He was only relaying a scenario. I dont think he said it 100% correct, a possible way.

Personally I believe RM has too much power, and this may turn out to be a good thing. Blair and Brown danced to his tune and the ConLibs knew they had to to gain power. This is not something that is good for any of us.

[OldNick]

I just tried 'hacking' into my own phone only to find I couldn't because I had changed the voicemail PIN when I purchased it a couple of years ago.

 

Of course I'm not condoning illegal and immoral behaviour, but if more people were security conscious then it wouldn't be easy to hack in the first place.

thats Ok if you understand such things. I myself am not a technology savvie person and so find all thise things very difficult to set up.

[View From The Top]

Millibean's repeated mentioning of the Cameron/Coulson connection is a bit misguided IMO.

 

Whilst Coulson may be shown to have been up to his ears in it when he was at NOTW, and he may not, he is hardly the first in the line of dubious Downing Street PR men and I don't recall him ever fabricating a dossier to support an illegal war. It's not as though Millibean had nothing to do with the previous administration...

 

 

Deflection is a rather pathetic position to take.

 

Simple fact is that Cameron *****ed up and the Leader of the Opposition is doing his job in pointing that out. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

In many ways he can take the moral high ground, a dubious position for any politician, as he's not in the pocket of NI as the tories are and as Blair was.

 

Still, let's not let the truth get in the way shall we, let's pretend it's all the fault of those nasty lefties.

[gaz]

According to this: http://www.newstatesman.com/newspapers/2011/04/phone-yeah-cameron-murdoch

 

Its not just a case of guessing the PIN on voicemail accounts, its using analogue and digital scanners to actively listen to phone conversations made using mobile devices, within a certain radius. I.E. park outside certain people's houses with it turned on, and wait for something juicy to happen.

[View From The Top]

I just tried 'hacking' into my own phone only to find I couldn't because I had changed the voicemail PIN when I purchased it a couple of years ago.

 

Of course I'm not condoning illegal and immoral behaviour, but if more people were security conscious then it wouldn't be easy to hack in the first place.

 

You do know what "blagging" is don't you in the context of the "hacking" story?

 

If you did you'd understand why your post is even more gormless than usual.

[trousers]

thats Ok if you understand such things. I myself am not a technology savvie person and so find all thise things very difficult to set up.

 

It's no more complicated than the lock on your front door or car door. "Older" people are just more comfortable with less modern types of security, not security per se. The principles are the same. You can always ask the person who sells it to you to help you around the "complexities" of changing a voicemail PIN.

 

It's common sense rather than rocket science.

 

IMHO of course

[trousers]

You do know what "blagging" is don't you in the context of the "hacking" story?

 

If you did you'd understand why your post is even more gormless than usual.

 

Yes, of course the PIN numbers were acquired by other means too.

 

But just because it's possible to break into someone's house by smashing a window doesn't mean you don't lock the front door.

 

Sigh.

 

p.s. good use of the word 'gormless' though. Well done.

 

Edited 8 July, 2011 by trousers

[trousers]

According to this: http://www.newstatesman.com/newspapers/2011/04/phone-yeah-cameron-murdoch

 

Its not just a case of guessing the PIN on voicemail accounts, its using analogue and digital scanners to actively listen to phone conversations made using mobile devices, within a certain radius. I.E. park outside certain people's houses with it turned on, and wait for something juicy to happen.

 

Yes. There are many ways to get hold of the PIN. I think we can all agree on that. Even the gormless ones like me.

[Verbal]

And another thing that is bugging me how comes the Guardian Know that Mr Coulson is going to be arrested in a few hours on suscpicion in a few hours , have the police tipped the paper off. Or is it a case of speculation?

 

Oh dear. We seem to have lost all perspective. If The Guardian had paid thousands of pounds for the information that Coulson was going to be arrested - in other words, if they'd committed the criminal offence of attempting to corrupt a police officer - then they'd be in the same tank as NoW. But they didn't obviously. Please try to make some simple distinctions here. Reporters go about the usual business talking to contacts, having information leaked to them (and usually checking its veracity), speak 'off the record' (as they do as a matter of longstanding routine in the House of Commons, otherwise lobby correspondents wouldn't exist), and so on.

 

None of this has ANYTHING to do with what the NoW has been up to.

[trousers]

In many ways he (Miliband) can take the moral high ground, a dubious position for any politician, as he's not in the pocket of NI as the tories are and as Blair was.

 

Indeed....Miliband attended a party thrown by Murdoch a few weeks ago because they are best buddies. Nowt to do with the political day job.

Edited 8 July, 2011 by trousers

[gaz]

Yes. There are many ways to get hold of the PIN. I think we can all agree on that. Even the gormless ones like me.

 

The point I was making is, that its not only about voicemails. Its about actual calls as they are being made. If the victim didn't even have voicemail set up, they could still be bugged and listened in to.

[trousers]

The point I was making is, that its not only about voicemails. Its about actual calls as they are being made. If the victim didn't even have voicemail set up, they could still be bugged and listened in to.

 

Yep, agree.

[benjii]

Deflection is a rather pathetic position to take.

 

Simple fact is that Cameron *****ed up and the Leader of the Opposition is doing his job in pointing that out. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

In many ways he can take the moral high ground, a dubious position for any politician, as he's not in the pocket of NI as the tories are and as Blair was.

 

Still, let's not let the truth get in the way shall we, let's pretend it's all the fault of those nasty lefties.

 

If you think that's what my post said then you are quite dim.

[View From The Top]

If you think that's what my post said then you are quite dim.

 

It was more aimed at all of your ilk.

 

Even us thickies can see that.

[Verbal]

Don't forget it was a journalist from that 'nasty lefty' newspaper The Guardian who broke the original story of a criminal conspiracy at the heart of NI and who ran with it, with his paper's support, through a torrent of scepticism and abuse.

 

Without a journalist, we wouldn't know any of this, the NoW would have got away with it, the PCC would have continued in its stupifying ignorance to lambast anyone for pursuing the scandal, the police would have been able to persist with their 'one bad apple' hypothesis and cover up the fact that they were corrupted by tens of thousands of pounds paid by NoW employees, and politicians like Cameron would continue to suck up to the insufferable Murdoch at the expense of wider public interest.

 

Actually, the last will still happen.

[pedg]

2) In January News Int themselves sent all the 11,000 odd pages of information to the Police

 

Bzzt. Wrong. The 11,000 pages refers to the contents of Mulcare's notebooks taken by the police as part of the initial investigation. All that NI have passed to the police are emails (almost certainly specially filtered to remove any referring to brookes) that are being used to attempt to shift attention away from said woman by allowing others, such as coulson, to be thrown to the dogs.

[pedg]

This might affect things...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14082668

 

I have learned that Ofcom is deeply concerned by recent revelations about the years of mismanagement at the News of the World and is monitoring developments at News Corporation extremely closely.

 

It is likely to make a statement later today, I am told, which will make it clear that it regards evidence that the News of the World's newsroom was out of control for many years as relevant to a judgement on whether News Corporation would be a fit-and-proper owner of British Sky Broadcasting.

[OldNick]

Don't forget it was a journalist from that 'nasty lefty' newspaper The Guardian who broke the original story of a criminal conspiracy at the heart of NI and who ran with it, with his paper's support, through a torrent of scepticism and abuse.

 

Without a journalist, we wouldn't know any of this, the NoW would have got away with it, the PCC would have continued in its stupifying ignorance to lambast anyone for pursuing the scandal, the police would have been able to persist with their 'one bad apple' hypothesis and cover up the fact that they were corrupted by tens of thousands of pounds paid by NoW employees, and politicians like Cameron would continue to suck up to the insufferable Murdoch at the expense of wider public interest.

 

Actually, the last will still happen.

I take my hat off to any journalist who finds corruption. I suspect all newspapers use dubious ways to get information. The NOTW overstepped the boundaries. I can't recall the whole Nixon thing but was not there a break in to get that information ?

[pedg]

I take my hat off to any journalist who finds corruption. I suspect all newspapers use dubious ways to get information. The NOTW overstepped the boundaries. I can't recall the whole Nixon thing but was not there a break in to get that information ?

 

No the break in was by those associated with Nixon that started the whole watergate ball rolling. I don't think the journalists in that case did anything one might consider illegal.

[OldNick]

No the break in was by those associated with Nixon that started the whole watergate ball rolling. I don't think the journalists in that case did anything one might consider illegal.

That's right, you are correct.

[pedg]

I think it is rather funny that the speech James Murdoch made about how 'dark forces' has corrupted NOTW without NI's knowledge could well come back to haunt him as it sounds like this admission that they had lost control of NOTW could well be used by Ofcom to say that NI are not a fit and proper company and then not only would they not be able to but the remaining shares in BskyB but they may well have to then sell the shares they already have. Oh how I would laugh.

[Verbal]

I take my hat off to any journalist who finds corruption. I suspect all newspapers use dubious ways to get information. The NOTW overstepped the boundaries. I can't recall the whole Nixon thing but was not there a break in to get that information ?

 

I had to laugh at this Nick. You clearly have such a diseased view of journos that you'll believe the OPPOSITE of the truth.

 

The break-in at the Watergate Building was carried out by ex-CIA and others with rightwing Cuban connections whose paymasters were the Nixon Campaign to Re-elect the President (or CREEP for appropriate short). They were caught red-handed by city cops. At the arraignment the next morning, Bob Woodward was on court-reporting duties for the Washington Post, and suddenly found the beginning of the trail that led him and Bernstein to ultimately ring down Nixon.

 

So no, Bob Woodward did not break in Watergate...!

[OldNick]

I had to laugh at this Nick. You clearly have such a diseased view of journos that you'll believe the OPPOSITE of the truth.

 

The break-in at the Watergate Building was carried out by ex-CIA and others with rightwing Cuban connections whose paymasters were the Nixon Campaign to Re-elect the President (or CREEP for appropriate short). They were caught red-handed by city cops. At the arraignment the next morning, Bob Woodward was on court-reporting duties for the Washington Post, and suddenly found the beginning of the trail that led him and Bernstein to ultimately ring down Nixon.

 

So no, Bob Woodward did not break in Watergate...!

 

no not a diseased view just on old mind. lol Is journalism still such an honorable trade? Was it ever?

I have no doubt the integrity of many has been besmirched by the few.

[pedg]

Now it appears a News International executive twice deleted large swathes of emails. Sounds like NI becoming less fit and proper by the minute.

[Verbal]

no not a diseased view just on old mind. lol Is journalism still such an honorable trade? Was it ever?

I have no doubt the integrity of many has been besmirched by the few.

 

All is relative. A few years ago the New York Times employed a young reporter called Jason Blair and he invented stories for the paper - as did Stephen Glass at The New Republic. Because the NYT is the 'paper of record' in the US, and The New Republic is on every President's coffee table, both incidents were regarded as the low point in recent newsprint history. Obviously neither is a patch on the NoW.

[Saintandy666]

Renault have pulled all advertising from all News International papers.

[Seaford Saint]

I have to ask the bleedin obvious question....what did the news of the world hope to gain from the phones of dead soldiers families....even millie dowler?

 

 

Good news about Renault in the post above

[Verbal]

I think it is rather funny that the speech James Murdoch made about how 'dark forces' has corrupted NOTW without NI's knowledge could well come back to haunt him as it sounds like this admission that they had lost control of NOTW could well be used by Ofcom to say that NI are not a fit and proper company and then not only would they not be able to but the remaining shares in BskyB but they may well have to then sell the shares they already have. Oh how I would laugh.

 

The 'dark forces' are obviously the Murdochs themselves and their odious senior executives. While the reputation of journalists sinks beneath the waves, the real culprits are the executives (and owner) who've viewed the NoW not so much as a newspaper as a means of exerting influence and control - with inducements, threats and intimidation - over the highest powers in Britain. All the impetus behind the corruption and criminal activity in the NoW stemmed ultimately from this.

 

So the orchestrators, if not the conductors, of a criminal conspiracy hardly fit a 'fit and proper' test - but when did a FAPP ever stop anyone?

[Viking Warrior]

Now the Daily Star has been raided.

[the stain]

And another thing that is bugging me how comes the Guardian Know that Mr Coulson is going to be arrested in a few hours on suscpicion in a few hours , have the police tipped the paper off. Or is it a case of speculation?

 

Yep. They must be corrupt. It's the only possible answer.

[Saintandy666]

Now the Daily Star has been raided.

 

Due to its connection to Clive Goodman who works there currently.

[the stain]

From Twitter: "Closing the #NotW but keeping Rebekah Brooks is like catching someone for drink-driving, letting the driver off but punishing the car"

[the stain]

Brooks is meeting with 200 p*ssed off, angry, drunk NOTW journos at 4pm. Clearly her decision making skills are still very poor.

[pedg]

I have to ask the bleedin obvious question....what did the news of the world hope to gain from the phones of dead soldiers families....even millie dowler?

 

 

Good news about Renault in the post above

 

More sales basically.

[the stain]

Photographic evidence that Brooks was directly involved in the phone hacking:

 

[Verbal]

More depths to be plumbed yet. Rebekah Brooks says there are worse revelations about the criminal conspiracy inside NI still to come.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/phone-hacking/8617707/News-of-the-World-phone-hacking-live.html

 

'In a year you will understand why we made this decision.'

 

A year?!

[dubai_phil]

Telegraph Link

17.29 Rebekah Brooks tells News International staff that oversight of attempts to clean up the company has been passed on to Joel Klein, the former US Assistant Attorney General who has been appointed as an independent director of News Corporation. That information in full from The Times liveblog:

For the avoidance of any doubt, however, the News Corporation independent directors agree with James Murdoch’s recommendation that the Management and Standards Committee, comprised of Will Lewis, Simon Greenberg and Jeff Palker, report directly to Joel Klein in New York. Joel is leading and directing the Company’s overall handling of this matter. Many of you will know that Joel is a respected former Assistant Attorney General of the United States. Joel and Viet Dinh, an independent director, are giving oversight and keeping our parent Company’s Board advised as well...............

 

.........Brooks no longer in charge of NI internal clean up committee on recommendation of J Murdoch and *News Corp ind directors*. Serious change.less than a minute ago via web Favorite Retweet ReplyDan Sabbagh

dansabbagh

 

 

 

It spreads upwards

Edited 8 July, 2011 by dubai_phil

[pedg]

More depths to be plumbed yet. Rebekah Brooks says there are worse revelations about the criminal conspiracy inside NI still to come.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/phone-hacking/8617707/News-of-the-World-phone-hacking-live.html

 

'In a year you will understand why we made this decision.'

 

A year?!

 

Well hopefully if she knows of any other illegal activities she will be going straight to the police to tell them.. (even alternative universes are probably not that strange)

[Verbal]

Well hopefully if she knows of any other illegal activities she will be going straight to the police to tell them.. (even alternative universes are probably not that strange)

 

She'll be shopping her boss, then, if this is right...

 

James Murdoch admits making what turned out to be illegal payments?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2012419/News-World-phone-hacking-James-Murdoch-needs-answer-says-Cameron.html

[dubai_phil]

More on these newest allegations, from the Guardian's Nick Davies and Amelia Hill:

Police are investigating evidence that a News International executive may have deleted millions of emails from an internal archive, in an apparent attempt to obstruct Scotland Yard's inquiry into the phone-hacking scandal.

The archive is believed to have reached back to January 2005 revealing daily contact between News of the World editors, reporters and outsiders, including private investigators. The messages are potentially highly valuable both for the police and for the numerous public figures who are suing News International.

According to legal sources close to the police inquiry, a senior executive is believed to have deleted 'massive quantities' of the archive on two separate occasions, leaving only a small fraction to be disclosed. One of the alleged deletions is said to have been made at the end of January this year, just as Scotland Yard was launching Operation Weeting, its new inquiry into the affair.

The allegation directly contradicts repeated claims from News International that it is co-operating fully with police in order to expose its history of illegal news-gathering. It is likely to be seen as evidence that the company could not pass a 'fit and proper person' test for its proposed purchase of BSkyB.

 

Oops.

 

So an executive did this recently despite stating they were co-operating with the Police?

[pedg]

Oops.

 

So an executive did this recently despite stating they were co-operating with the Police?

 

Their idea of cooperation is that by removing most of the evidence they make the police investigation easier..

[dubai_phil]

Their idea of cooperation is that by removing most of the evidence they make the police investigation easier..

 

Shouldn't at such a sad and serious mess but that comment works

[pedg]

Shouldn't at such a sad and serious mess but that comment works

 

I try, or have been told I am very trying, something like that.

[the stain]

More depths to be plumbed yet. Rebekah Brooks says there are worse revelations about the criminal conspiracy inside NI still to come.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/phone-hacking/8617707/News-of-the-World-phone-hacking-live.html

 

'In a year you will understand why we made this decision.'

 

A year?!

 

By ExNOTWJourno on Twitter:

 

the RB "1 years time" business,according to a colleague,could be 'baby related'. Possibly.

 

+

 

I'm not saying I believe that.It's just what people are saying out loud.

[the stain]

Haha! The hacker gets hacked!

 

One of the journo's recorded the meeting:

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/rebekah-brooks-news-of-the-world-2011-7

[dubai_phil]

By ExNOTWJourno on Twitter:

 

the RB "1 years time" business,according to a colleague,could be 'baby related'. Possibly.

 

+

 

I'm not saying I believe that.It's just what people are saying out loud.

 

Which would indicate that RB is about to get right royally srewed over in the next month or three

[the stain]

Email message from Rebekah Brooks to all News International staff:

 

Dear All

 

Yesterday was a day of great sadness for the News of the World and I know all of you felt deep sympathy for colleagues. I want the whole of the company to know and recognise the following things about colleagues at the News of the World.

 

That team, led by Colin Myler, are hugely talented, dedicated and professional. Moreover, they are respected by their peers throughout the industry.

 

They have endured unprecedented scrutiny while propelling the paper to award after award. While mistakes of the past have led the country's news agenda, News of the World exclusives have set the news agenda around the world.

 

Importantly, too, News of the World has touched readers' lives in many other ways – such as the Children's Champions Awards, the For Sarah campaign, Go Green and Save, and the crusade to make the Military Covenant law.

 

These are great achievements and every member of staff should feel proud of them.

 

The company will focus over the coming months on finding as many jobs as possible for the News of the World staff both within News International and the wider company.

 

Retaining talent is very important and I have asked all the other titles to fill current vacancies with those from the News of the World where possible. No decision has been taken yet on any new publications or expanding existing ones. We will retain Fabulous which is a credit to everyone who has made it such a successful and award-winning magazine.

 

All current staff will be paid for the next three months. We have begun full consultation with NISA [News International Staff Association] and will offer support and provide regular updates to everyone affected.

 

We will make sure that any redundancy packages will be fair and are meeting NISA on Monday to start discussions over severance terms and redeployment options. In addition, we are working on a framework for a bonus scheme.

 

I would also like to apologise for any operational problems in the newsroom that are a direct result of our co-operation with the police.

 

I held a town hall meeting with News of the World staff at 4pm today to answer questions about what will happen next.

 

In response to media coverage today, I would like to address several additional points relating to the ongoing police inquiries and my role.

 

News International is not leading an investigation into itself because that could interfere with the work of the Metropolitan Police. What we are doing is assisting the police, who are entirely independent, with their work. We are all clear about one thing: the police will follow the evidence no matter where it takes them. The strongest action will be taken whenever wrongdoing is proven.

 

People have asked if it is right for me, as CEO of News International and as the Editor of the News of the World until January 2003, to oversee our efforts to assess allegations, address serious issues and prevent them from happening again. I'm determined that News International does this.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt, however, the News Corporation independent directors agree with James Murdoch's recommendation that the Management and Standards Committee, comprised of Will Lewis, Simon Greenberg and Jeff Palker, report directly to Joel Klein in New York. Joel is leading and directing the company's overall handling of this matter. Many of you will know that Joel is a respected former assistant attorney general of the United States. Joel and Viet Dinh, an independent director, are giving oversight and keeping our parent company's Board advised as well.

 

James outlined the standards this company demands in his message to you yesterday. These standards apply to everyone, first and foremost to me as News International's chief executive.

 

As a company we welcome the prime minister's calls for broad public inquiries into media standards and police practices. We are working hard to put our own house in order and do the right thing. Change and accountability will come through cooperating with criminal and civil inquiries and respecting due process during the tough times ahead.

 

For this week, however, the News of the World staff have the toughest and most important job of all. I know they will produce a final issue that we will make us all proud.

 

Rebekah

[pedg]

An example of how the 'now honest' NOTW operated

 

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2011/07/08/my-encounter-with-the-news-of-the-world/

Edited 8 July, 2011 by pedg

[Verbal]

As the revelations about the criminal conspiracy within NI turn from bad to worse, I see even the Daily Mail has come around to the Saintsweb collectively agreed point of view that, in the midst of this, Cameron is a bellend.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2012719/News-World-shutting-A-disaster-David-Cameron.html

 

He saw it coming, but simply didn't believe in anything else than that News International was the place where those who aspired to the political summit had to supplicate. And before the wrong-trousers-benjiiiii-dune gaggle wind up their ya-boo-sucks stock replies, yes, of course, the Blairites did exactly the same. This time, though, it could, and should, ensure that Cameron's equation of political success with fawning to Murdoch will end with the walls falling down around his ears.

[the stain]

What a massive c*nt.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weUkz6x5k6Qhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weUkz6x5k6Q

Edited 9 July, 2011 by the stain