bridge too far Posted 6 July, 2011 Author Posted 6 July, 2011 This is beyond political point scoring now.
Lord Duckhunter Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 This is beyond political point scoring now. Exactly, It's a shame Ed Milliband didn't think of that before PMQ's.
View From The Top Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 labour politician's are full of crap over this. Some, not all. Some have been highlighting it for years, as was acknowledged by tory backbenchers today. but Labour are desperate to link this to Cameron. Caulson is going to be hung out to dry and like it or not that brings Cameron's judgement into question, especially as he was so adamant in defending him. Personally I believe Cameron is as disgusted as the rest of us and it's cheap politics.
solentstars Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 (edited) Lefties as in supporters. Those who were bloody uncomfortable with a pact with the devil in exchange for power. I'd not argue that Blair out toried the torys in many respects.gotcha but i do not think we have a real left wing party left in this country anymore. Edited 6 July, 2011 by solentstars
Lord Duckhunter Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 Caulson is going to be hung out to dry and like it or not that brings Cameron's judgement into question, especially as he was so adamant in defending him. Personally I believe Cameron is as disgusted as the rest of us and it's cheap politics. I agree, but its quite shameful and Labour should rise above that. Somebody posted earlier about Cameron's links to Brooks, but Gordon Brown attended her wedding. When she was arressted for attacking Ross Kemp, she had been out that afternoon with David Blunkett. News international has it's tenticles in all of public life, and Labour would be better off not trying to score political points.
the stain Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 This is beyond political point scoring now. Exactly, It's a shame Ed Milliband didn't think of that before PMQ's. Oh, the irony.
dubai_phil Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 This is gonna run and run.. The world hears about NOTW hacking dead kids, oh and within hours new stories emerge that throw the krap back on the Politicos.... Thank God I am a sceptic and none of this actually surprises me. So now we find a Journo may have hacked George Osborne's phone. Jesus, if THEY did it, then who the hell else could have done? Want to know what's in the next budget and make a zillion? easy hack his phone. Didn't we used to have Security Services who were supposed to STOP this happening? Jeez, what else at "Government Level" have non-Journos been able to find out. Crooked & Corrupt from the top down and has been for years. Is this really the whole story now or the tip of some nightmare Iceberg. Oh and for all the Political point Scoring? Guess what happens next Ed? Yep you're secrets start to come out. Hugh Grant points out the NOTW were just unlucky - they were the first ones to get caught... What a fecking mess Sometimes living in a world of Press Censorship has it's benefits. (As long as you know how to bypass Govt Proxy Servers or hack other IP's)... oops
Verbal Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 The News of the World is now accused by Scotland Yard of spying on behalf of murder suspects - during Brooks' stewardship of the paper. New depths indeed. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/06/news-of-the-world-rebekah-brooks
bridge too far Posted 6 July, 2011 Author Posted 6 July, 2011 And hacking the phones of the families of service personnel killed in Afghanistan.
View From The Top Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 The News of the World is now accused by Scotland Yard of spying on behalf of murder suspects - during Brooks' stewardship of the paper. New depths indeed. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/06/news-of-the-world-rebekah-brooks Good god.
Hatch Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 and now families of dead soldiers http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14052909
Wilko Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 It sounds a bit ****tish, but I became a reporter because I wanted to hold authority to account and inform the readers about matters of public interest. What a lot of these blokes seem to have been doing makes me ashamed of my profession.
View From The Top Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 and now families of dead soldiers http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14052909 What the f**k have these c**ts not done?
revolution saint Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 This is beyond political point scoring now. Exactly. It's nothing to do with party politics, or indeed the wider press. It's about a disgusting and what seems endemic culture within NOTW.
pedg Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 Exactly. It's nothing to do with party politics, or indeed the wider press. It's about a disgusting and what seems endemic culture within NOTW. Don't worry, News International is investigating with Rebekah Brookes in charge of the investigation. What could possibly be wrong with that....
dubai_phil Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 Exactly. It's nothing to do with party politics, or indeed the wider press. It's about a disgusting and what seems endemic culture within THE UK PRESS. I changed it to add Hugh Grant's comments on Sky this evening... It ain't gonna stop, bet there has been a run on Blancco Software & Shredding Machines in London these past 2 days
Verbal Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 There are 11,000 pages of this stuff, and the police are going to be keen not to release all of it until cases come to court. So we can be sure that this scandal will run for months and possibly years yet. So as bad as things look now, they can only get worse. This will have a profound effect on British journalism. Can we expect it to be 'professionalised' along the American model - but also subject to compulsory regulation, as it already is with broadcast journalism?
revolution saint Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 Don't worry, News International is investigating with Rebekah Brookes in charge of the investigation. What could possibly be wrong with that.... I can't really see anyone caring about a News International internal investigation. Career wise Brookes is toast, although financially Uncle Rupert will see she's OK.
revolution saint Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 I changed it to add Hugh Grant's comments on Sky this evening... It ain't gonna stop, bet there has been a run on Blancco Software & Shredding Machines in London these past 2 days Sorry, but this is about the NOTW. If other allegations arise then that's different. Don't presume to know what I meant.
dubai_phil Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 There are 11,000 pages of this stuff, and the police are going to be keen not to release all of it until cases come to court. So we can be sure that this scandal will run for months and possibly years yet. So as bad as things look now, they can only get worse. This will have a profound effect on British journalism. Can we expect it to be 'professionalised' along the American model - but also subject to compulsory regulation, as it already is with broadcast journalism? If self regulation has brought this then I'm afraid the answer has to be feck yeah. The really sad thing in this is not just the unspeakable depths these morons sank to, but also that the Brit Public seems to be as much surprised as outraged. It is such a sad reflection of the state of UK society that 1) This could happen and 2) Probably worse in the long run, that people (hopefully USED TO) read this stuff and paid money for it. How many people over how many years fought for the Freedom of the Press? How they must be turning in their graves now that all that work has been undone by (possibly many) nasty little sh1ts.
dubai_phil Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 Sorry, but this is about the NOTW. If other allegations arise then that's different. Don't presume to know what I meant. Sorry. Hugh Grant on Sky (9pm your time) stated that there is more to come and that NOTW were not the only ones.
Sheaf Saint Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 A devastating summary from the Spectator here. Quite long-winded but well worth a read... http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/7075673/what-the-papers-wont-say.thtml If their conclusion is correct - that the opposition and the rest of the press are staying relatively silent on the matter because they are mostly complicit and will only be exposed if they bleat too much (and it's difficult to think of any other reason why they would choose to play down what is potentially the biggest government scandal of our generation) - then this has massive implications not only for the entire UK mainstream press but also for our whole political establishment. Scary stuff. It horrifies me the thought of just how deep this goes.
Verbal Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 Phil, I simply don't believe that it is a 'sad reflection of the state of UK society.' Frankly, with this and your altering of RS's post, you come across as the classic gin-soaked, moaning ex-pat. The reaction to the revelations is surely a reflection of what is good about this country - the widespread determination not to put up with this crap, and a belief that it offends not just the law but common and shared notions of decency.
revolution saint Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 Sorry. Hugh Grant on Sky (9pm your time) stated that there is more to come and that NOTW were not the only ones. No problem, and Alistair Campbell was saying the same on Newsnight last night but so far the only allegations of illegality have been against NOTW. That may change but for now it's just them, and it's a horrible enough crime that it justifies just concentrating on them.
Verbal Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 One important point worth bearing in mind: to make large payments - and they WERE large - to police and other informants for legally protected personal information, NoW journalists would have had to have sought approval from above to make such payments. No journalist, no matter how seedy, walks around with tens of thousands of pounds he or she can dispense as they see fit. So this inevitably goes to the top - and that means Brooks and, quite likely, executives then above her.
Saintandy666 Posted 6 July, 2011 Posted 6 July, 2011 One important point worth bearing in mind: to make large payments - and they WERE large - to police and other informants for legally protected personal information, NoW journalists would have had to have sought approval from above to make such payments. No journalist, no matter how seedy, walks around with tens of thousands of pounds he or she can dispense as they see fit. So this inevitably goes to the top - and that means Brooks and, quite likely, executives then above her. Exactly. To be honest, and I have thought this for years, it's about time our government severed links with News International. For bloody years, whichever party won, Murdoch came in as well. The amount of power and influence he has been allowed is disgraceful considering what his organisation has been up to.
KMondo Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 If self regulation has brought this then I'm afraid the answer has to be feck yeah. Probably worth repeating, over and over again ad infinitum if necessary, that phone hacking, paying police for information, obstructing the course of justice and all the rest of it are already illegal. New laws are not needed, just better enforcement of the existing ones.
egg Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 Probably worth repeating, over and over again ad infinitum if necessary, that phone hacking, paying police for information, obstructing the course of justice and all the rest of it are already illegal. New laws are not needed, just better enforcement of the existing ones. But who is the enforcer when the police are on the take?
ecuk268 Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 Nutty Boris Johnson was on R4 this morning saying what a wonderful chap that Rupert Murdoch is and how much he's done for British journalism. This is the same Boris Johnson who said last year that claims of phone hacking were "codswallop" and that it was all a stunt cooked up by the Labour Party.
dubai_phil Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 (edited) Phil, I simply don't believe that it is a 'sad reflection of the state of UK society.' Frankly, with this and your altering of RS's post, you come across as the classic gin-soaked, moaning ex-pat. The reaction to the revelations is surely a reflection of what is good about this country - the widespread determination not to put up with this crap, and a belief that it offends not just the law but common and shared notions of decency. Bit blinkered there, seeing only the end result. Of course "Society is outraged" that is not in doubt. But the fact is that NOTW appears to have carried out this hacking for a considerable time. It also appears to have had no moral standards in the depths that it would sink to (how on earth can the people concerned SLEEP at night?). But, the point is that those people at NOTW did this for a reason. There was a MARKET for the information that they found. That market was the people who bought their papers every week. NOTW did not do this for their own puropses, they did this (possibly) at the beginning because many people in the UK WANT to read about the dirt on celebrities. It just then got out of control by the looks of things. There are vast swathes of the UK's media devoted to telling a demanding audience what their "Celebs" are up to, from NOTW through to Hello Magazine. The media outlet that finds the Scoop on a celeb gets to make money because the Public wants to read about it. So you are saying that the reaction shows up the good side - yes it does. But it would be totally hypocritical to not understand HOW this came about. And that was because the readers demand "gossip" and that the extreme elements of the Press developed (wrong & immoral & uncontrolled) methods of getting that "News". In NOTW's instance they have gone WAY too far and beyond the boundaries of Humanity not just standards. No the readers did not want the NOTW to hack murder Victims phones, but that was an unintentional side effect that some demented idiots thought was the way to give the Readers what they wanted. Nobody will be able to change the current Media reader psyche for wanting to know where Jennifer Aniston's latest zit is, but people went way too far in how they found that out and then went even further. Going too far beyond the bounds of sense legaility and reason is a new trait in UK, some people simply think rules or logic don't apply to them. This week it is the NOTW Journos. In the recent past in other areas it was senior people in Banking. Edited 7 July, 2011 by dubai_phil
The Cat Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 I wonder just how many phones Mulcaire hacked? I'd imagine that if I was in his position I would have just started hacking everyone. Does the Queen have a mobile? It would be hilarious if he'd been hacking Rebekah Brooks' and Rupert Murdoch's phones just because he could.
Viking Warrior Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 You have a very narrow minded view of whats going on here look at the comment you made about Dubai Phil This hacking lark is getting beyond a joke - the headlines are sensationalism - it does not take a genius to work out that in todays society and technology that this type of thing is bound to happen - it is never ending and serves no purpose continuing. It is highly likely that at some point a large percentage of phones have been hacked for whatever reason. The phone companies need to sort the security - end of story - Its not just the NOW as I have already stated Verbal its te other papers and media who are at it its just they havent been exposed yet. Oh and I suppose you think the likes of Max clifford are squeaky clean as well
dubai_phil Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 Probably worth repeating, over and over again ad infinitum if necessary, that phone hacking, paying police for information, obstructing the course of justice and all the rest of it are already illegal. New laws are not needed, just better enforcement of the existing ones. Yep. So why (about a year or more ago) did the Met Police decide NOT to proceed with their investigation into Phone Hacking? Someone somewhere REALLY needs to re-visit THAT decision. And now (as others have said) how can it be right that the organisation tasked with investigating has been alleged to have received payments from "The Accused" How can "The Public" have confidence as to what level those payments reached. Is the Investigating Officer or his Supervisor someone who benefitted?
Viking Warrior Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 Another concern for me is if the news of the world can hack into phones how many defense lawyers are hacking into witness phones to make a case for their clients. There have been a number of notable cases that have collapsed for one reason or another. Even the lyying scoundrel sheridan is likely to be set free because of phone hacking. the fact that he was in manchester is now imaterial as the weight of evidence against him is now compromised. Yes I conscious it works both ways. Blame the labour government for bringing about freedom of information legislation. Reporter are for ever asking for the most bizarre informations to make up stories. Also for those that remember when Dave Jones was accused of child abuse. people were going into his dustbin looking for information about him. It wasnt the now but other papers and media. Dave Jones was wrongly accused and his family went through hell.
The Cat Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 Yep. So why (about a year or more ago) did the Met Police decide NOT to proceed with their investigation into Phone Hacking? Someone somewhere REALLY needs to re-visit THAT decision. Most likely it was due to silent threats from News International about what information they could print about the Met unless they hushed it all up.
View From The Top Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 Yes I conscious it works both ways. Blame the labour government for bringing about freedom of information legislation. Reporter are for ever asking for the most bizarre informations to make up stories. I've read some, frankly, bizarre posts on this site over the years and I have to say that this is right up there with them. Freedom of Information = illegal phone hacking by the NOTW = Fault of previous government.
View From The Top Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 Most likely it was due to silent threats from News International about what information they could print about the Met unless they hushed it all up. That's the gist of the story in today's Guardian.
Saint-scooby Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 And all this CR..AP just to sell a Sunday newspaper......
Verbal Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 And all this CR..AP just to sell a Sunday newspaper...... NoW has been the attack dog Murdoch could unleash on any politician or public (or it seems non-public) figure who doesn't toe the line on extending News International's influence and power; NoW and The Sun has been the cash cow that has paid for, among other things, The Times, which has lost money ever since Murdoch bought it, but has brought him immense influence; and the NoW is part of a stable of papers in the Murdoch empire that ruthlessly promotes the extension of Murdoch's other media interests, notably Sky and its sports franchises. So a bit more than just a crappy Sunday tabloid - more of a state within a state with its own powers to threaten and intimidate all the way to the top of British politics and society.
holepuncture Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 NoW has been the attack dog Murdoch could unleash on any politician or public (or it seems non-public) figure who doesn't toe the line on extending News International's influence and power; NoW and The Sun has been the cash cow that has paid for, among other things, The Times, which has lost money ever since Murdoch bought it, but has brought him immense influence; and the NoW is part of a stable of papers in the Murdoch empire that ruthlessly promotes the extension of Murdoch's other media interests, notably Sky and its sports franchises. So a bit more than just a crappy Sunday tabloid - more of a state within a state with its own powers to threaten and intimidate all the way to the top of British politics and society. Cracking post
Hatch Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23967889-diabolical-practice-families-of-war-dead-were-hack-targets.do Arrests immenent
saint1977 Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 Nutty Boris Johnson was on R4 this morning saying what a wonderful chap that Rupert Murdoch is and how much he's done for British journalism. This is the same Boris Johnson who said last year that claims of phone hacking were "codswallop" and that it was all a stunt cooked up by the Labour Party. According to the ConservativeHome website this is who the majority of respondents wanted to succeed David Cameron! Cameron is less than halfway through his first term FFS. Cameron needs to clean this up, have a Militant Tendency/Kinnock type purge on all his Neocons and Thatcherites in the party (guess they'd join UKIP), that would reduce Murdoch's leverage for a start as his papers are already writing anti-Cameron articles and trying to unseat him. The reason Labour are keeping quiet is probably the alleged help Murdoch gave Blair and Brown pre and post Iraq.
Verbal Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 Among all the condemnations, the reputations of journalists have suffered badly. But let's not forget that it was largely the work of one extremely tenacious Guardian journalist, Nick Davies, which has prised this scandal wide open. Here's his first major piece, published almost exactly two years ago, exposing the details of the criminal conspiracy led from the top of News International. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jul/08/murdoch-papers-phone-hacking
Saintandy666 Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14052690 The ex-NOTW reporter really does come across as a slimy git.
Lord Duckhunter Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 But, the point is that those people at NOTW did this for a reason. There was a MARKET for the information that they found. That market was the people who bought their papers every week. NOTW did not do this for their own puropses, they did this (possibly) at the beginning because many people in the UK WANT to read about the dirt on celebrities. It just then got out of control by the looks of things. There are vast swathes of the UK's media devoted to telling a demanding audience what their "Celebs" are up to, from NOTW through to Hello Magazine. The media outlet that finds the Scoop on a celeb gets to make money because the Public wants to read about it. So you are saying that the reaction shows up the good side - yes it does. But it would be totally hypocritical to not understand HOW this came about. And that was because the readers demand "gossip" and that the extreme elements of the Press developed (wrong & immoral & uncontrolled) methods of getting that "News". In NOTW's instance they have gone WAY too far and beyond the boundaries of Humanity not just standards. No the readers did not want the NOTW to hack murder Victims phones, but that was an unintentional side effect that some demented idiots thought was the way to give the Readers what they wanted. Nobody will be able to change the current Media reader psyche for wanting to know where Jennifer Aniston's latest zit is, but people went way too far in how they found that out and then went even further. The circulation figures for this Sunday will obviously be down, but a bloke on Newsnight said last night, that it will last a couple of Sundays and then be back to normal levels. Lets see what the NOTW circulation figures are in 3 months time, and then we'll get a fuller picture of just how outraged the British people are. The British people have it in their hands to ruin Murdoch, we dont need new laws, if people dont buy his papers and cancel their Sky subscriptions, and advertisers dont advertise he's finished. If people continue to pour money into his coffers, all the condemnation from the likes of Hugh Grant & Lord Presscott count for nothing. I'm afraid the British people like reading his papers and watching Sky and although disgusted by what's going on, aren't so disgusted that they will stop doing so.In that respect DP is right, it does say a lot about our Country..........
Saintandy666 Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 The circulation figures for this Sunday will obviously be down, but a bloke on Newsnight said last night, that it will last a couple of Sundays and then be back to normal levels. Lets see what the NOTW circulation figures are in 3 months time, and then we'll get a fuller picture of just how outraged the British people are. The British people have it in their hands to ruin Murdoch, we dont need new laws, if people dont buy his papers and cancel their Sky subscriptions, and advertisers dont advertise he's finished. If people continue to pour money into his coffers, all the condemnation from the likes of Hugh Grant & Lord Presscott count for nothing. I'm afraid the British people like reading his papers and watching Sky and although disgusted by what's going on, aren't so disgusted that they will stop doing so.In that respect DP is right, it does say a lot about our Country.......... The news of the world has a circulation of 2,700,000... I don't know how many readers that would translate too, but lets just say 6,000,000ish max readers. That leaves 54,000,000 who don't buy it at all. Perhaps those most outraged do not buy the newspaper anyways, so circulation figures may not be dented. A lot of people who read the NOTW won't follow the news properly anyways.
the stain Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 The people have spoken. I went into 4 newsagents today and not one of them were stocking the News of the World. Power to the people and down with the NOTW!
trousers Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 The circulation figures for this Sunday will obviously be down, but a bloke on Newsnight said last night, that it will last a couple of Sundays and then be back to normal levels. Lets see what the NOTW circulation figures are in 3 months time, and then we'll get a fuller picture of just how outraged the British people are. The British people have it in their hands to ruin Murdoch, we dont need new laws, if people dont buy his papers and cancel their Sky subscriptions, and advertisers dont advertise he's finished. If people continue to pour money into his coffers, all the condemnation from the likes of Hugh Grant & Lord Presscott count for nothing. I'm afraid the British people like reading his papers and watching Sky and although disgusted by what's going on, aren't so disgusted that they will stop doing so.In that respect DP is right, it does say a lot about our Country.......... I know the words 'nut' and 'shell' are much over used on here but never have they been more apt than in response to the post above. The British public are largely apathetic (apart from when it comes to having a grumble on an internet forum of course....)
Pancake Posted 7 July, 2011 Posted 7 July, 2011 I went into 4 newsagents today and not one of them were stocking the News of the World. Coz it's Fursday, innit. Did they have the Sun for sale?
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